Talk:Leet/Archive 7

History?
Some fucking asshole needed to make a definition of this. Seriously, guys?

As an old guy who's been around a very long time, "leetspeak" had nothing to do with avoiding filters. Way back in the teletype days we used to try to impress each other with how crummy the computer equipment we had access to was. The letter swaps were initially common as people worked around dead keys on keyboards. It evolved from there, and the more elite hackers would claim to have the crummiest ttys. Soon it was just a hacker community thing. 207.98.236.86 (talk) 05:27, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Didn't the actual use of leet, arise from the computer game Elite? I was under the impression that those who had achieved elite status in the game, used that the title leet on the BBS's.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anton.lauridsen (talk • contribs) 12:11, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Totally agreed, the article "A Leet Primer" cited as the source of all the historical information in this article seems like unsourced speculation to me. --Cce (talk) 22:05, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

How does U=M
In relationship to the appearance to the letter 'u', how does 'M' look like 'u'? I understand why (_) [_] |_| (etc) look like 'u' but how does M=U? Vujačićfan18 (talk) 22:04, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * If the middle lines of the M get bent towards the outer lines (and also downwards) it looks like U. Also: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v385/zippiz/Untitled-8.png Can you see it now? 89.249.0.170 (talk) 19:33, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Does it not have something to do with the Greek letter "Mu?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_(letter) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.156.219.217 (talk) 05:09, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Yea it's probably from mu/μ. - M0rphzone (talk) 08:11, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Prawn
As far as the 'Prawn Island' Vice City reference, has anyone thought that maybe they were referring to the type of shrimp (Prawn) which might fit in the fake-Miami seafood setting or something? Its all speculation, but I'm pretty sure there's no attachment between pr0n and Prawn at least as far as that is concerned. 71.220.251.70 (talk) 10:43, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

evar
why does "evar" redirect here? Evar comes from the Simpson's comic book guy's catchphrase "best comic book (etc) evar". It has nothing to do with l33tsp34k. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.213.74.106 (talk) 06:24, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm ok with redirect, redirects are generally useful. But the article has to use the word for it to be a legal redirect.  Is there any reason evar should redirect here, and if so, can we get that reason mentioned in the article? Perhaps we need a separate article which is a list of leet terms?  Actually I bet that already exists... Mathiastck (talk) 22:03, 3 May 2010 (UTC)


 * No...No it doesn't. 72.208.48.117 (talk) 00:13, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

SWG
Not only is the "/(action)" technique used in WOW but it is also used in Star Wars Galaxies, I request the page be edited to contain this information —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.13.152.160 (talk) 18:31, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the forward slash preceding an action command probably more accurately refers to IRC commands. I imagine that these actions originated from there not only because it was one of the first forms of real time communications that hackers used, but because any (at least, those that I know) hackers would have utter contempt for RuneScape. Perhaps it might be useful to edit this section to refer to IRC, as opposed to Runescape? Tonjevic (talk) 09:07, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

newb, n00b, nub
I find that a lot of places has a different hierarchy than that which is defined in the article.


 * Newb - just came, just getting acclimated
 * n00b - acclimated, but still new, and is an idiot
 * nub - been at this for a really long time, but still acts like a n00b.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.108.205.111 (talk) 00:01, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

We should add that "newbie" is a derivative of "new born baby" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.9.243.103 (talk) 20:34, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

65.100.177.151 (talk) 20:09, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Frub-a free nub, usually in online p2p games that include trials.
 * Fr00b-a free n00b, usually in online p2p games that include trials. —Preceding unsigned comment added by
 * Actially, fr00b is a high-level n00b --T3h Ub3r h4x0r (talk) 16:24, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I, Being a OldbieNewb, will explain the definitions of the variation please first refer to C+A+D's simple Glossary here now to listing:

Oldbies believe in helping Newbs because it brings more people into the activity.
 * Newb- a person who has just begun playing, these people normally enjoy help and advice and receive it.


 * N00Blet- A New person who acts like they know what they are doing, they are cocky, rude, and not enjoyable, everyone enjoys beating N00BLETS as it teaches them a lesson. also can be called just N00B


 * N00B- a person who in general acts rude, cocky, like they know everything, and that they are better than everyone else.


 * Nub- and N00B who actually has gotten good but still will not drop the attitude of I'm better than everybody.


 * Oldbie- A veteran, a person who has been around for a long time and is good.


 * OldbieNewb- a Oldbie that still has the same problems as a newb, OldbieNewbs despite all their experience still feel very uninformed and confused and frequently requires help or cannot contribute much but still hangs around. for instance I would be an OldbieNewb on wikipedia as I still dont know how to do stuff like change my signature even though I've been around wikipedia for about 3 years maybe more.
 * Sometimes called a ch00b or fr00b.

hope that clears stuff up. Arkkeeper (talk) 22:29, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Grimlover?
Is this section vandalism? It has no information in it, and I can't find any reference in context anywhere else. Not even urbandictionary has it. It seems to me that if this word is so uncommon (and probably invented by the editor), it doesn't merit a special mention. Delete this section? AndyHuston (talk) 19:08, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

As of right now, there are a total of 191 results for 'grimlover' on google, the most prominent of which is someone's livejournal. seems like vandalism to me 86.135.50.133 (talk) 00:42, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, the section seemed suspicious when I read it, and I was unable to find any information backing it up - this should probably be deleted. 161.115.50.41 (talk) 02:23, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Leet Hammer Broz.
There needs to be a mention of the L33T HAMM3R BR0Z in Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time. Please. 153.42.168.174 (talk) 19:21, 16 December 2007 (UT


 * I'll ask for you. --208.138.31.76 (talk) 21:38, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Add the following item (or something like it) to the Leet in other contexts section:
 * Add the following item (or something like it) to the Leet in other contexts section:


 * In the game Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time, the Hammer Bros. are forced to speak in Leet because of Shroob mind control helmets.
 * --208.138.31.76 (talk) 21:48, 16 January 2008 (UTC)


 * ✅ accepted. The proposed addition is not sourced; see WP:V and WP:RS. Sandstein (talk) 22:03, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Noob, n00b, newbie, newb, hasu and gosu
Noob, n00b, newbie, newb, hasu and gosu are ways of calling someone a Newbie, it implies exactly the same thing. Any player who displays or performs acts that could be considered "in-expierenced" (ie gettin' Pwn'd) could be referred to as a newb.

This Statement: "while a n00b continues to engage in "newb" behaviors long after they should know better. It implies that the target is being ignorant of his or her own failures, blames others without reason, has failed to learn, etc" is completely wrong. A N00b is a noob is a newb is a newbie.


 * No, a newb is a new person, and a n00b/noob is typically an idiot/spammer. They descended from the same word, but they have slightly different meanings.

-Grim- (talk) 14:48, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I entirely disagree. The distinction between noob/n00b/newb/newbie mostly does not exist. In some places a formal or informal usage has developed in which noob and newb have different meanings or connotations, no one can deny that. But in many (and I would not hesitate to say most) places the words are used entirely interchangeably. Some places also distinguish noob/n00b as less and more severe, but I see no mention of that here (which is as it should be). To inform an uninformed reader (dare I call him a noob?) that this distinction always exists is to do him a disservice. He may have even been *called* a noob in some place where the distinction is not made and be attempting to learn its meaning. I say that you simply cannot provide an authority which can prove that the distinction is essential and therefore the wording should be changed to indicate that the distinction is only made *sometimes*. --76.106.71.50 (talk) 12:48, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Grim, I have noticed a distinction. Newb is actually new, and the word is not always used derogatively. Noob or n00b however, is definitely an insult i.e. you are behaving LIKE a newb/idiot even though you aren't that new. Machete97 (talk) 13:15, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

This is the only place I have ever seen hasu and gosu, and i cant find it anywhere else. in another language maybe ? Machete97 (talk) 19:37, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * "Chobo", "hasu" and "gosu" are terms I've encountered in the starcraft and warcraft 3 communities and are used respectively for newbie or unskilled person, moderately good player and very good player. Gosu can be synonymous to "leet". The gosu article covers the topic quite well. --Guillaume (talk) 16:49, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

"Chobo" and "gosu" are Korean terms which mean respectively, novice (or noob) and expert. Chobo doesn't seem to have the same extremely negative connotation that noob and its variants carry as people generally seem less outraged at being referred to thusly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.197.176.26 (talk) 01:03, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

The IT Crowd
Recommend adding that the DVDs of the British TV series The IT Crowd offer l33t as one of the subtitle options. (L33t in popular culture?) 75.20.202.70 (talk) 00:35, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Really? sweet, i might have to pirate a few episodes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Acekid567 (talk • contribs) 21:13, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Too long, too difficult
This article seems to me much too long for the value (or notability?) of the topic. Surely Wikipedia is not there to provide exhaustive textbook coverage of topics? It also seems to have been written by geeks for geeks. As a non-geek I find it hard to follow. One problem is that the word pwn is introduced without any explanation (unless one follows the link) and then used extensively before being explained later in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pawebster (talk • contribs) 07:11, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed on the length and difficulty of the subject matter. I'm not the most versed in Wikipedia's policies on notability, but speaking from my background in Linguistics it is worth at least watching as it is a rather recent new dialectical form. By and large, unfortunately, any evidence I could give to support those claims would be original research. It's tough at this point- there haven't been many extensive academic treatments of this topic. Personally, I'd rather see this article get the same treatment that other articles that deal with language topics get. Mark my words, it's not a simple fad. Mendaliv (talk) 00:31, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

well, i can help the first one of you a bit. "pwn" is a shortened form of "pown", which is a variand of "own". it is used most commonly after a humiliating defeat, where the victor "pwn'd" his adversary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Acekid567 (talk • contribs) 21:17, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

No original research
Like it says at the page that's linked above, Wikipedia does not publish original thought: all material in Wikipedia must be attributable to a reliable, published source. Just because you may know something to be true/real/factual etc. doesn't mean you can add it without a reliable source. If you don't have a source for what you want to add, you really shouldn't add it. Cliff smith (talk) 06:27, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Intro Wrong; not Shorthand
The introductory paragraph was wrong. leet is not a form of shorthand because it is neither briefer or faster. The Shorthand article opens with this definition: "Shorthand is an abbreviated and/or symbolic writing method that increases speed or brevity of writing as compared to a normal method of writing". leet is symbolic but does not increase speed or brevity. I have edited the introductory paragraph. Hu (talk) 17:44, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Not Alphanumeric
The introductory paragraph was wrong. leet is not written in alphanumerics because it uses more than only letters and numbers. I edited it to ASCII, but conceivably Extended ASCII or another link might be better. Hu (talk) 17:44, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * ASCII??? There's no relation to the ASCII value of the letters. Maybe it isn't alphanumeric but it is definitely not ASCII. (Sronna (talk) 10:06, 25 April 2009 (UTC))


 * 1337 speak is not a use of all ASCII Charcters. t0(to) typ3(type) 1337(Leet) y0u(you) r3pl4c3(Replace) certian letters with numbers. the use of the ASCII symbols is refered to as Hexor or |-|3X0red in the early online gaming circles.

Pronounciation
Why is the i in elite pronounced /əˈliːt/, opposed to e.g. Israelite? --Tantalos (talk) 18:50, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Because the English language is screwy like that. -Grim- (talk) 14:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, it's more because of the French language. 'Elite' is borrowed from French, so the pronunciation is (more-or-less) French. Another example is 'cuisine', which doesn't rhyme with 'line' for the same reason. One of the reasons for the baffling range of pronunciations/spellings in English is that so many words have been borrowed from other languages. Mooncow (talk) 22:46, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Under "Owned and Pwned", I believe some people pronounce it "pawn" also, ie. Total Pawnage. 172.137.54.16 (talk) 03:16, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Some people also say 'pooned' too, but that's irrelevant. That's still wrong and you still look foolish. You can't just change the proper pronunciation of a word just because people can't say it properly (That's what American English is, and look what a bloody waste of space/time that is) -Extr3me (talk) 14:04, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thaz prety lulz. Pwnd isnt a wurd n teh 1st place.


 * Damn, see how easy it is to beat your argument? You can't tell people they're mispronouncing a word their community invented.  How's this: you seem British, so why do you pronounce the word "Worcester" as "Woosta?"  You can claim all you want it's the correct pronunciation, but it's only correct because that's how people now pronounce it (and NOT how they always have).  Look in any legitimate dictionary and you will find that there is no list of "correct" pronunciations, per se, but merely commonly used and accepted pronunciations.  Hence many words have multiple pronunciations, and all dictionaries, even the OED, will always acknowledge that not all pronunciations are listed.


 * And if you really want to get into pronunciation, we should talk diction, too. Do the British do the best job of enunciating their words?  Obviously not.  It is, ironically, the Midwest that tends to fall most in-line with dictionary (first) pronunciations and have the most specific and diverse speech pattern (pronounce the vowels in "cot," "caught," "coat," "awl", and "all," all differently, for example) among pure English speakers.


 * Spelling has been changed, too. "Aluminium" only ends in -ium in Britain, and then only recently.  "American English" isn't the only language changing its spellings and pronunciations.  Do you still spell the definite article "ye" or the third person plural pronoun "yey?"  Because you would if you lived four hundred years ago.


 * Meanings change too, of course. You used "bloody" in a way I'm sure the word was not originally intended (if you can say a word were really "intended" to mean anything).  Common theme here?  Nobody in America changed any of these things.  Now who's the "bloody waste of space/time?"  And how can Americans look foolish if you're the only one with a numeral replacing a letter in your name?  Eebster the Great (talk) 06:52, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


 * utterly pwned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.28.127.2 (talk) 20:08, 23 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh snap. Eebster the Great FTW.--Jsderwin (talk) 15:28, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

L1nk1ng t0 0th3r p4g3s?
Shouldn't we provide a link to Chixor in the *see also* or the section describing h4xx0r? Meadhbh.siobhan (talk) 16:30, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

ROFL / FOFL
The footnotes justifying FOFL as an equivalent for ROFL do *not* even mention FOFL!
 * So remove them. --Jsderwin (talk) 15:28, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

-XOR sufix comes from Exclusive Or || XOR
XOR or Exclusive Or refers to the Exclusive disjunction logial operator used in programming and circuit design not from the hacker or lesser

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XOR_gate —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joeblow17 (talk • contribs) 20:43, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, it doesn't. The -xor suffix is very different from XOR.75.60.27.102 (talk) 07:01, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. Xor is often used to representing exclusivity. Think about the context its used in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.219.98.185 (talk) 11:58, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Classification as "Argot"
Personally, I disagree entirely with the classification of Leetspeak as Argot. To quote the Wikipedia article for argot; "Argot (French and Spanish for "slang") is primarily slang used ... to prevent outsiders from understanding their conversations. " As far as I'm concerned this is not right at all. I certainly have never used leet for the purpose of 'encrypting' my messages on the internet, mostly since it's all fairly obvious. I don't want to edit the article before I see what people have to say in repsonse to this, so fire away.  --Extr3me (talk) 14:10, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This talk page is dead, so I'm going to do the edit now and if anyone wants to dispute comment here. --Extr3me (talk) 21:41, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

--- you are absolutely wrong. originally leetspeak was a mechanism derived in the underground, fueled mostly by warez/skript kiddiez later on, to avoid keyword matching on traffic by programs like carnivore. i have no references but i was there. =P —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.79.34.96 (talk) 22:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

False HTML
Why does it have to be HTML? It would be valid XML. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.157.90.19 (talk) 13:32, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

funny.Machete97 (talk) 20:50, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * lawlz (j00 g0t own3d) --Nn123645 (talk) 06:56, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Totally useless trivia
OK, this is totally useless, but slightly cool. l33tness is for geeks/nerds/whatnot and astronomy has a certain nerd factor associated with it, especially radio astronomy. Well, PSR B1919+21 was the first discovered radio pulsar... quite historic. Guess what it's period is.... 1.337 seconds. Booyah! --Dante Alighieri | Talk 15:45, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It’s actually 1.3373. Still, interesting enough for a coincidence. Synetech (talk) 17:25, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

there's also a microsoft program with a version number like 1.3.3.7... BootVis i think. is that in the article? tl;dr 202.220.172.68 (talk) 12:15, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Technically it’s 1.3.37.0. I recall there being at least a 1.3.36.0 before that. However there has no been no known update since. It is not certain whether that version number is intentional or a coincidence. Synetech (talk) 17:25, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Pwned and Owned Error
"Pwned is commonly referred to as "power owned", using the previous example that if the player with the inferior weapon killed the other player without getting hit, he would have "pwned" the player."

Actually Pwned started in counter-strike as "Pistol Owned", that and it is right next to "o" on the QWERTY keyboard so people do it as a type error. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.104.247.131 (talk) 04:48, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

 Machete97 (talk) 20:52, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Pwnd was starts by someone typing OWNED and missing the O while gaming. Unless you're using the dvorak key board the p and o are next to each other

Leetspeak
Why is this article all about Leetspeak ? Leet is an adjective someone as elite. This page should be renamed Leetspeak and Leet split off into another article. Machete97 (talk) 20:56, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I think refering to the language purly as "an alphabet used primarily on the Internet for the English language" is misleading and plain contradictory to the fact the langauge includes non-translated words such as owned or simple misspellings such as taek. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.183.229.204 (talk) 12:53, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

The leetspeak page should also be corrected. This retarded gibberish originated in the 90s, not the 80s. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.10.142.114 (talk) 17:03, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

The first sentence ends with "...that is used primarily on the Internet.", but would more correctly be written "...that is primarily used on the Internet." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:470:808F:1:E2F8:47FF:FE3B:8C8A (talk) 16:19, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

EverQuest Commands
I believe that the use of commands that begin with a slash is not a direct reference to EverQuest. The use in leet most likely comes from chat rooms in general, more specifically IRC. EverQuest's chat system is just like every other MMO that uses /actions: styled after real chatservers. -- 75.177.116.134 (talk) 22:18, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I was just about to say that myself. I've never seen it characterized as leet, and use it myself because I use IRC a fair amount; I didn't even know it was in EverQuest, and many MMOs do use the system. I'd say the section should be removed from the article, or at the least the part about EverQuest. Baseballbaker23 (talk) 02:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

the "/" command absolutely did not originate in EverQuest. it has been an IRC standard for decades as "/me goes for a walk" = "Anonymous goes for a walk" and various other implementations. it is sometimes used in chat or message boards, etc. but it is not leet speak. Rather, this is an example of internet lingo (such as "LOL" and ":D") that shortcuts a statement with a well known command. the "/" can also stand for "end" as in "/thread" which is commonly seen in message boards and forums to declare a discussion to be over. this is based on HTML and other markup languages which use two tags to begin and end an object in code:. Again, INTERNET LINGO and NOT leet speak. 202.220.172.68 (talk) 12:02, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Rcampbel3 (talk) 19:20, 30 July 2008 (UTC) References to Everquest should be replaced with correct history. irc's use of "/" commands dates back to 1988 (reference: http://daniel.haxx.se/irchistory.html ) while Everquest was not released until 1999 - internet relay chat used the "/" character prepending text to indicate a command. If the command was "/me ...", then IRC servers interpreted this as an action such as "/me bangs his head on the wall!" causes "* IRCuser bangs his head on the wall" to be displayed in IRC clients

Anarchy Online
Not that it's important or anything but in Anarchy Online there's a mob type named leet that tend to speak in simple l33t. Just a litte fun fact I guess.. Luredreier 03:00, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Some Facts *I have no real point*
I'm like only a fraction of the way through reading this and I have noticed several things very, very wrong. From the outside looking in many of these things would seem correct. As far as i know the only citable things about leet would be written from the perspective of someone outside looking in. This is a big problem because only noobs who think they know how to speak leet and wanna show off their skills actually talk completely in leet and use, i guess, what would be very accuratly described as this articles description of leet. Leet isn't used to exclude people from understanding what you mean it's used as emphasis or to get around chat filters. A good bit of leet is actually making fun of people who try to use leet. Haxxor is used to kinda make fun of people or joke around like if someone kills you you could say, "Dude I like totally haxxored you". It is typed sarcasm. Saying omg!!!111!!!1 is either making fun of noobs who get so excited they wet themselves and can't remember to hold down the shift key or it means you got so excited you wet yourself and forgot to hold down the shift key. However, it is okay to use a bunch of exclamation points or lots of question marks or a combination of them if your excited and questioning.

N00b dosent really have anything to do with skill, (although its generally not applied to newbs). It is meant to say that you suck as a human being. An example is to say someone team kills you and you call the guy a n00b. A noob can be used as any of the three terms, as all three, or it may have its own definition. The term noob isn't really used as an insult. It just means your not new thus not a newbie, but your still not good. Noob is someone less skilled then you. I'm not even going to try and explain the other types of noob as they aren't that important.

-- youre almost right. leetspeak was used to get around chat filters but the original intention of why it was created was to get around carnivore and sysadmins that know grep. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.79.34.96 (talk) 22:36, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Change
Under the section Upside down "(If viewing on windows, it is sometim..." Should include a link to the OS Windows.

n00b
quote"Some examples of Leet include: B1FF and n00b, a term for the stereotypical newbie; the L33t programming language;[5] and the webcomic Megatokyo, which contains characters who speak Leet."

this is false, n00b is to refer to someone who is acting more like a moron, jerk, offender, hater, lamer. It is not to refer to a stereotypical newbie, which is simply a newbie (a person new to the game) n00b is an insult, newbie is just a current state of knowledge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.113.75.227 (talk) 10:13, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Not True. n00b can either mean what you're saying, or it can actually mean a newbie. lrn2internets —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.177.116.134 (talk) 22:51, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

ur d0!n !t wr0n9, n00bl3+z. for all grammatical purposes, "n00b" is equivalent to BOTH "newbie" and "nubile". the neutering of the final syllable is quite intentional and follows the tendancy of both internet lingo and leet speak to simplify vocabulary and demphasize the lines between appearance and actuality. thus, a "n00b" is both a beginner and a fool regardless of any actual experience. 202.220.172.68 (talk) 12:10, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, here's where it came from: n00b < noob < noobie < newbie --71.135.47.175 (talk) 00:04, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

that may have been true originaly, but now n00b is used to refer to a person who has plenty of experience with the game, but still sucks at it and acts like an idiot. newbie is used to refer to anyone new to the game, regardless of skill. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Acekid567 (talk • contribs) 21:10, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

spelling of Grammar
Is the mispelling of the word "grammar" ironic? If not, can someone please correct it? Vriana (talk) 19:14, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Gay, Fag, Homo etc
I think something about homophobia in leet should be mentioned. Anyone who has read leet will know that these sort of words are a favorite with leet speakers. 82.2.209.127 (talk) 13:14, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

u m33n l!k3 f4990+ry, 94yn355, & h0m03r0+!c? 202.220.172.68 (talk) 12:12, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Wrong Title
Article on the Leetspeak cannot be under the title Leet. "Leetspeak" is a word derived from the word "Leet", but "Leet" doesn't stand for "Leetspeak". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.211.51.62 (talk) 15:48, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, someone already mentioned this in the beginning of the discussion. Reingold (talk)

The Leet World
Okay, I think it's about time the machinima series, The Leet World, has it's own page. Anonoymus 2:57, 27 August 2008

Psychological reason for leetspeak being invented
Since most people who type (or even worse... speak) in this language generally have poor social skills, they have invented a language mainly to exclude other people. It is a way for them to get a sense of power and superiority over people who have no idea what they are saying. Kind of like the group of kids in high school who, after being rejected from all other groups, formed their own group and created a system of talking primarily to exclude other people. It's a psychological thing, you see, the reasons for this being created in the first place. Not just a system of abbreviating abbreviations, but as a whole world where these people can go to, after being rejected from the real world. In this world that they stay in, they have a sense of power over normal people. Kind of like MMO's. You could say that leetspeak is the very definition of exclusion and elitism.

Leetspeak is also a way for these young men to get out their sexual frustrations. (another way they do this is by playing as female characters in games) To add on to leetspeak; sexist, derogatory adjectives are used to replace normal adjectives and nouns. Here are a few examples:

Example 1: "I lost a game last night." Would be.... "I got assraped last night." Example 2: "Look, there is a girl over there." Would be.... "Hey look, there's a bitch/cow/cuntbag/whore over there." Example 3: "Yeah, I exploited the leveling system in that game." Would be.... "I whored the level system in that game." Or. "I was a leveling whore" Example 4: "Is that really a lady?" Would be.... "pics or GTFO bitch"

In many way, leetspeakers are, in fact, more sexist than the average sportsfan, the people that leetspeakers hate so much. And sports fans happen to be the frequent victims of leetspeakers when the leetspeaker brings a gun to school or to the local mall and acts out his frustrations and inadequacies.


 * lol "pics or GTFO bitch" meaning "Is that really a lady?" is definitely the best emphasis we could possibly use to convey what leet speak and leet speakers are. I'm not even remotely joking.

Very well put point. Reingold (talk)

---You're full of it. Kids want to feel cool, and this way they can fit in. Even the social butterflies speak in leet on certain boards of the internet, even though on others they speak standard English. One could argue that instead of being rejected by the "real world" they instead reject it.

1) I was pwnt. 2) WTF a wimmin? 3) I levelwhored. 4) t4rp=tarp=trap=man who's dressed as a woman. That's all that needs to be said.

Though there might be something to be said about the -fag modifier, meaning "one who does" - in that way a wikipedia user would be a wikifag, a english major would be a writingfag, and an artist a drawfag. - but this is more similar to black people calling themselves by racial ephithets than any insecurity. And your last sentence - bwahaha. Next you can just call us all terrorists. DELTEETED. --- That's such BS. The simple reason for leetspeak originally was to get around wordfilters that would block topics on hacking and the like. There's no way for a word filter to block leetspeak because of the infinite number of combinations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.113.198.109 (talk) 03:33, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

editsemiprotected
About the abrevation "LAWL".

It's not just used as the american pronounciation, but an abrevertion itsel, meaning "Laughing at who's laughing".

Thought it should be added.
 * at this time, do you have a source? I suspect that's a backronym, I've heard people say it stands for various other things as well as that. ~ mazca  t 23:28, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree - backronym.

What about B& + V&? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.127.223.98 (talk) 19:36, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

"Pwned" is indeed an incrorrect pronounciation of the word Owned
the article needs to be changed. the section of poned and owned is wrong. its a mis-pronounciation of the word not "how many people say it". that can be refrenced to many leet speak translation websties and the internet tv series "Pure Pwnage" a highly regaurded authority on leet speak and gaming.

"Poned" is indeed an incrorrect pronounciation of the word Owned
the article needs to be changed. the section of poned and owned is wrong. its a mis-pronounciation of the word not "how many people say it". that can be refrenced to many leet speak translation websties and the internet tv series "Pure Pwnage" a highly regaurded authority on leet speak and gaming. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Havokas (talk • contribs) 12:59, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Utility Leet
Leet as a communication tool, a language, can be regard as a Pidgin developed on Internet with the following specific constrains. 1. As a slang developed to adapt to the public nature of Internet. User may intended to limit the transparency of some information. 2. As a cryptic code developed to adapt to the text filters or censorship from authorities.

Since Leet is a language, it inherits the function to create password [1].

My proposal is to separate "Vocabulary" section to a new topic: Leet_vocabulary. * As a Pidgin, it can be divergent and hard to gain common acceptance esp. on Internet. * Some simple example can let reader get the basic idea and dive into Leet_vocabulary if interested. * A specific section that summary the [utility leet can be helpful for readers. * List Oizea Type as one of the utilities in case it can be accepted. Zender chen (talk) 16:12, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Text Input via Numeral Dialect of Leet
Oizea Type can be viewed as a numeral dialect of Leet that makes Leet more useful than just a slang. Numeral leet speak with Predictive_text technology can be an effective input method for cell phones.

Ownage and Pwnage
216.57.96.1 (talk) 21:59, 26 November 2008 (UTC) I think the interconnections between Ownage and Pwnage are being overlooked here. There is of course ownage, as in showing ownership or domination 'I owned you MOFO!' or 'You just got owned!'. Similiarly there is pawnage, or being pawned, derived from the game of chess wherein if a player were use a pawn to take a high ranking peice from the other player it showed skill and was humiliating to to the player that lost a peice. Thus, if my pawn takes your queen, 'I pawned you MOFO!' or 'You just got pawned!'. Thus pwned could be interpreted as a hybrid of the two, 'pwnd!' meaning 'You just got owned by my pawn!' or 'I just dominated you though I was in the weaker position'.


 * I'm removing the request to add this information to the page, as the first constitutes advertising, and the second is original research. —BradV 04:42, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not intended to bluntly advertise my idea ( Oizea Type ), just a proposal to show the utility of leet beyond a cryptic slang. Zender chen (talk) 08:41, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

There is a definite difference between a newbie and a n00b
It is ridiculous that poor innocent newbies are being called n00bs. My reasoning is because normally n00bs act like newbie to scam other players and put the blame on newbies. Newbies only want to know how to play not be given everything on a platter. The only definion I can find on a n00b is in the urban dictionary which is just as reliable as Wikipedia. the first response. I would quote but wikipedia will delete my post. There are also other definitions on this page but I believe that this one is the most correct. You can go to any gaming forum and ask, and they will tell you this is the truth. Aestious (talk) 23:36, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Hex characters
this is missing much of where 1337 comes from. for example 1337 or 31337 can both be written with the character of the hex "alphabet". lamers have lond staid with the lame workds like feedfacec0ffe and feedbeef, but with 1337 one can write much more into dwords or ipv6 addresses. c010ssa1 da7abase 4a7e4 etc good external http://nedbatchelder.com/text/hexwords.html Scientus (talk) 03:36, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

fun reference
there is an igoogle ap "Leet Word of the Day" http://www.google.com/ig/directory?url=www.transparent.com%2Fwidgets%2Figoogle-leetspeak.xml worth checking into for the external links section Skydive23 (talk) 16:18, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Spam?
Sometimes, leet speak has been used in spam messages, although to a small extent. Should this be mentioned in the article? 69.120.98.246 (talk) 02:54, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The reason may be the same with the origin utility of Leet: fool the text filters. Zender chen (talk) 15:38, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Add QQ to Vocabulary
Since many people misinterpret this term and/or its origin, I would like to suggest to add this to the wiki page.

QQ means complaining, whining or crying. Most of the time it is seen by some people as a pair of eyes in tears while others think it is not. Rather it's an abbreviated emoticon or smiley in Korean style or Kirby style. Some example of these smileys: Q( -_-)-O (>< ), (-_-"), (>^^)>

Q(" Q) This is what the emoticon looks like. Kirby with both fists up.

In an multiplayer online game, there are players who would complain in groups and a random guy would draw out the little Kirby boxing with his fists up. And somehow it turned out to be an online game phenomenon. Although not surprisingly that the emoticon (Q_Q) fits more than the Kirby one with fists up, some people want to preserve its origin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fjrfrdn (talk • contribs) 10:30, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

as far as I know, QQ comes from Warcraft/Starcraft where to surrender one would press ctrl-Q, then Q. basically means, 'if things are going so bad, you might as well quit now'. Sahuagin (talk) 22:59, 23 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Isn't QQ a "crying" emoticon? As in each Q is an eye with a tear? You use it when something bad/crappy happens to you. Btw, people use "crey" as comments and it probably came from the typos and then became an intentional misspelling to de-emphasize the seriousness of "cry". - M0rphzone (talk) 04:35, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Help for article
This article needs much help.Anti-nominated, spam, semi-protected, bah.We need to rewrite the article but keep the good facts we already have.If anyone agrees with me we should start a project to clean the article up.User:Shock64 —Preceding undated comment was added at 19:16, 24 December 2008 (UTC).

OK to add another generator to External links/Upside-down text section?
I'd like to add another site but because it's mine I'd better ask first. http://upsidedown.info/ is another upside-down generator with the following features: Tschild (talk) 23:54, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * choice of rotating by 180° (as with e.g. Rot180) and mirroring on the X-axis, using different substitution tables
 * characters that no rotated/mirrored substitution glyph could be found for are flagged in red in the output
 * option of displaying the substitution table (separate for rotate/mirror), with Unicode reference.

Error in first example sentence?
Should the last word in the first example sentence rather be in plural instead of "h4x0r", which is singular? White rotten rabbit (talk) 16:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Penis Error
It says "PENIS" along the tops of the first five columns, representing the first five letters, of the "translation table." I think this is vandalism.

1337?
What the devil is this "leet" the title mentions? The right way to display it is 1337, please fix this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.195.247.127 (talk) 17:46, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Leet is the word 1337 translated into normal English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.141.172.152 (talk) 00:12, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Z0MG
Z0MG redirects here, but there is nothing in the article about this particular term. WhiteDragon (talk) 17:38, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Spoken BRB,BBL,AFK
The phonetic pronunciations of these acronyms over VOIP and to a lesser extent normal face to face conversations has grown to the point of normalcy in the gaming communities I participate in. Such as BRB being spoken aloud like burb, BBL like bibill, and AFK like afck. This may be a phenomenon of these niche communities however if other individuals have observed this across the wider internet community it makes for a noteworthy mutation of ever changing leet. No idea how you would cite something like that though. Armadous (talk) 20:51, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * When spoken I've only ever heard them spelled out. I wonder what most people do >.< Hintswen   Talk |  Contribs 23:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

History
The history on this is somewhat correct. I know because I was once of the few that started speaking/typing like this. I know why, and I also was the first bbs to ever show the word pron, and noone else had used it before me. I will be adding info to this page as I am a reliable source with many contacts that can vouch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.48.3 (talk) 08:48, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

talking leet
if i talk leet, will it make me cool? --Steve (talk) 15:45, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

no. More than Nothing (talk) 02:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Pwned
In it says that it might just be a typo; You are incorrect. "Pwned" is a mix between "Power" and "Owned". Meaning "You just got power owned". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pwnagingpowner (talk • contribs) 07:36, 23 May 2009 (UTC)


 * That's POVed. There is speculation that "pwned" developed from a keyboard mistype as well as that "pwned" may have developed from phrases like "Power Owned," "Pistol Owned." In another sense, one could also say "pwned" is derived from "pawned," in this sense meaning basically this. I do agree with you that this article is in extremely bad repair. Maybe I'll take it upon myself to include some more viewpoints. Cheers ...Ω... ..¿TooT?....¡StatS!.. 01:41, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Deterioration
This article has fallen into terrible disrepair, leading not only to the removal of its FA status, but many, many, many edit wars occurring within its boundaries. I propose several things. 1) That more opinions be given on the etymology of 1337 phrases. 2) Serious rewriting of almost every section to include a more encyclopedia-like tone. 3) Granting semi page protection to keep random vandals who think they know a thing or two about being 1337 to edit this page (I'm doing that as I type this) My mistake, it's already Semi-protected. And for all those who may think that I'm not entitled to speak because I'm not "1337," ?00 <4|V 60 |)|3. Cheers ...Ω... ..¿TooT?....¡StatS!.. 01:54, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Oneoneoneone
Should be oneoneoneone included there? 90.94.59.51 23:12 10 June 2009 (GMT+5:00)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.50.59.51 (talk) 17:13, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What is "oneoneone"? Hintswen   Talk |  Contribs 23:51, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * "oneoneone" is a reference to the deliberate insertion of the word one (or the numeral 1) within a series of exclamation marks. It is usually intended as a humorous or mocking allusion to the occasional typographical error of the numeral 1 among a series of exclamation marks as a result of inadvertently releasing the SHIFT key on keyboard layouts where the two symbols share the same key.-- Jeffro 77 (talk) 03:28, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

ftw?
Watch this leetness this leetness is fun???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.164.148.139 (talk) 00:17, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

No it means Fuck The World or Fuck This World —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.221.81.226 (talk) 09:35, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

--- "for the win". dumbasses. what are you a buncha rappers? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ftw http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_slang http://netforbeginners.about.com/od/blogchatinstantmessaging/f/whatisFTW.htm http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/f/ftw.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.79.34.96 (talk) 22:43, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Besides being both of those, ftw is also wtf backwards, i.e., WAYYYYYY more wtf-ish; more shocked, amazed, confused, etc. It depends on context. Still too lazy to make an account. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.108.164.67 (talk) 19:29, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Table
The red formatting and the asterisks in the table should be either explained or removed.-- Jeffro 77 (talk) 13:32, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * It looks like the red characters are the most commonly used or preferred characters (or so I thought when I first looked). If I'm right then I don't know why "1" is highlighted under the "T" column. As for the asterisks I have no idea. PS. If i'm right about he red characters, shouldn't they be at the top of the column? Hintswen   Talk |  Contribs 23:49, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I have removed the red formatting. Unsourced, unexplained, and inaccurate.-- Jeffro 77 (talk) 08:01, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

It looks like in the "B" column, the symbol "|3" is there twice. 69.17.224.23 (talk) 22:17, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Ownage, Pwnage... and Slayage?
I'm curious about the origin of the '-age' suffix here. Did it originate in leet and become popular through Joss Whedon's use of it in regular English in 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer'; or did Buffy come first; or did the two evolve simultaneously and feed off one another? There's some discussion of the regularised slang in 'Slayer Slang: A Buffy the Vampire Slayer Lexicon' by Michael Adams (2003 Oxford University Press), but is there a bigger geek (or, if you prefer, "more knowledgable commentator on contemporary culture") out there who knows about this - or even where to begin looking into this? Thanks BlackMarlin (talk) 22:38, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Orthography B
I think the B section is missing 8 as an alternative for B as in 80085 translates as boobs or 8008135 translates as boobies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.221.81.226 (talk) 09:35, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Added. Hintswen <font style="background:#000080;"> <font style="color:#FFFFFF"> Talk | <font style="color:#FFFFFF"> Contribs 03:09, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

l33tsp3k3 was invented by "crackers"
The New Hacker's Dictionary says that hackers actually use perfectionist language and l33tsp3k3 was invented by "crackers". Sohzq (talk) 13:35, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

OMGWTFBBQ
Who does OMGWTFBBQ redirect there? This is not leet speak, but rather a separate internet phenomenon. 94.50.59.51 (talk) 21:39, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I would hardly call it a phenomenon. It isn't leet, it's just a series of abbreviations strung together... but someone chose to direct it to the most related article.  It definetly doesn't need it's own article, but should link to Internet slang instead. There IS, however, a soft-redirect at Omgwtfbbq (lower case) Gpia7r (talk) 21:44, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

b0rked
"b0rked" could be included. It means "broken" http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=b0rked —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.148.38.152 (talk) 14:20, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Joke Leetspeak
I'm sorry to inform you, but you've got Leetspeak, a rare disability which affects the brain... it makes you think you're superior to the supposedly inferior. Unfortunately, it can rarely be cured, but when it cures, it will change your mind for the better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.9.38.67 (talk) 17:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Syllabaries...?
As I understood it, L337 generally had a capital L to say it was the syllable "L", not the "lll" sound, much as modern text speak says C U l8r. Am I wrong? Prof Wrong (talk) 16:39, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

why...
sigh...things like this article are the reason every Joe Schmuck who can barely operate a garage door opener getting on the Internet thinks they are haxxor. Isn't that sort of the whole point of "eliteness"? Eggbertx (talk) 07:11, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Article Page
I noticed that leet is not capitalized on the main article page. Is it supposed to be that way? Mr. C.C. (talk) 04:57, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Please restore link to "pwn"
An earlier talk entry stated that pwn was introduced without comment, aside from the article link. Now it's not even linked. Please change it back. Spazquest (talk) 21:23, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Pwn leetspeak? (I don't believe so)
I wrote in Talk:Pwn about how I disagree that words like "pwn" are anything to do with leetspeak. They are more correctly "gamer-speak" or "Internet slang". The two should not be confused apart from that there are some crossover usage because most hackers/crackers are also gamers. Consequently, references to "pwn" and other Internet slang terms should not be in the main body of this article as they are not leet or leet-speak.

Please feel free to support or disagree here and Talk:Pwn that there should be more distinction between these terms in both of these articles. Thanks. 82.44.93.55 (talk) 22:12, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Masterqwerty1234, 31 March 2010
Please edit wikipedia ... In the list of letters, the most common use of the letter "R" is not in the list.. its )2 and stands way better then |2, especially in-game of a lot of games —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.92.202.148 (talk) 15:20, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Please edit wikipedia ... In the list of letters, the most common use of the letter "R" is not in the list.. its )2 and stands way better then |2, especially in-game of a lot of games. Masterqwerty1234 (talk) 07:00, 31 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Requests to edit semi-protected articles must be accompanied by reference(s) to reliable sources.  Chzz  ►  07:06, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

My system
Here's my Leet translation system: Note that my translations are all 3 or fewer characters. ~ Cega  LEGO  log  99!  22:15, 8 June 2010 (UTC) In Leet:(39@1390109 99! (now ~ Wimpy Fan boy  t g)  —Preceding undated comment added 14:27, 12 July 2010 (UTC).
 * A→@
 * B→8
 * C→(
 * D→[)
 * E→3
 * F→|=
 * G→9
 * H→#
 * I→!
 * J→_|
 * K→|<
 * L→1
 * M→^^
 * N→|\|
 * O→0
 * P→?
 * Q→
 * R→|^
 * S→5
 * T→+
 * U→|_|
 * V→\/
 * W→\^/
 * X→*
 * Y→`/
 * Z→2

If you wonder why F=ʃ, here's how.

First, taks the small letter F:

When italicized, a hook is often added:

And when the line thru is remved, it becomes an IPA symbol:

~ Wimpy Fan boy  t g 20:53, 1 July 2010 (UTC) (formerly Cegalegolog99)

In Leet: \^/!^^?`/ |=@|\|80`/!

l33t Wikipedia
There should be a l33t wikipedia. Am i noobz 4 thinking th4t???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.105.64.140 (talk) 02:25, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * N@h, t|-|@ vv0(_)1!) 63 4|v|u5i|\|, m8 3\/3|\| +u!2n 0u+ 13£|n m0r3 pr0du(71v3 w1f 7h3 |4x 5p3||1n6 4nd 6r4mm4h & 5h17 :P --TiagoTiago (talk) 09:41, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Just curious...
Ummm... has anybody read BIFF? The BIFF article is somewhat accurate. Or has anybody read (An authoritative history of BIFF)? The history of BIFF is much more accurate and is where "LEET" evolved from. Just curious if anybody has read those. -   Hydroxonium (talk) 08:53, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

L
i'm not sure how many are missing, i only took a quick glance, but another one for L is "J_" most use this only when there actually trying to make most people not understand. A few people (like me) call this the "J_887*5" cipher. Here is an example "64^ '/(.)* *^(|39574^(| J_887*5" which would read "can you understand leetx5". x5 refers to the person who thought of this complicated version of leet. The vowels are the easiest part to understand with the exception of y, which is "'/". Heres a quick alphabet, realize that many are used twice in order to bring even more confusion to those that dont know it already. 4 8 6 (| 3 |= 6 77 1 _1 |c J_ ^^ ^ 0 d 9 9 5 7 (.) \| \|\| * '/ N. (A-Z left to right.) There are more variations to it, but only the most complicated were chosen. 121.236.20.247 (talk) 09:19, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 108.15.111.145, 13 February 2011
The number symbol "#" is mentioned twice for the letter "H" in the Orthography chart.

108.15.111.145 (talk) 03:12, 13 February 2011 (UTC)


 * , thanks. Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 05:28, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

suxxor, roxxor
These words should be spelled suxor and roxor. The presence of a 'xx' in these words does not follow the original 'haxor' template, and they are not even spelled in this way by internet users. The haxor template, from 'hacker', removes the 'ck' and following letters and replaces them with -xor. Dmitchard (talk) 15:49, 19 February 2011 (UTC)


 * This page has 746 watchers...is there anyone with knowledge of the subject that can comment on this issue? Normally I'd reject it because the editor doesn't provide a reliable source, but in this case, that whole paragraph in the article is also currently unsourced, so that wouldn't be a very fair rationale.  Does anyone have any sources to document the standard spelling either way? Qwyrxian (talk) 01:52, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * You can't exactly have standards as Leet is an imaginary language. I'm quite sure that it's both suxor and suxxor, etc. Any comments? Manish Earth Talk •  Stalk 13:50, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. Logan Talk Contributions 12:47, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

4310 = AEIO, whats with 1 = L?
Although 1 and L share some common shape isn't 1 supposed to be for I. Alan2here (talk) 21:28, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Pr0n
Where is the pr0n? Pics or gtfo. 70.49.244.184 (talk) 18:11, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Cory is a 1337 failz0r. Cory is a 1337 Sux Dixorz. Cory <3 101. He Sux! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.200.65.170 (talk) 19:02, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Other characters
Add these characters:

U: μ

X: χ

B: β

R: Γ

Y: γ

N: η

F: ƒ

E: Σ, ξ

P: ρ [Z][S][E][X][D][R][C][F][T] 01:26, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

The -en plural
The -en plural (from Unix slang, cf. ) should be mentioned. Maybe under the Morphology or Grammar section? 31.16.20.174 (talk) 22:47, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * FWIW, I think this is coming from German. I suspect due to the international nature of IT, and online communications, there is historically a large community of users who don't speak English as a first language. Back in the late 80s, early 90s, I had a lot of contact with German and Scandinavian sceners. Their Englishes undoubtedly played into the formation of what is now broadly called 1337. Also, should be noted that there are a few English plurals ending in -en (oxen, children). The -n plurals were more common, but the place of articulation for n is close to s, so many slowly transformed. Also, there's a couple of oddities like peasen and cherisen where the singular is ended with -se /s/ and became confused for the plural. The more things change... 59.167.243.34 (talk) 03:35, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

! (_)5[- 1337
I use leet Scientific Alan (talk) 02:41, 12 January 2012 (UTC)


 * {}{}|~| 6**|> _|08, @i |<3|\| 70{}.
 * (Man..that took way too long to type out...) - M0rphzone (talk) 04:26, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Open Source Leet Translator
Leet Translator with API for CoffeeScript, Dart, JavaScript, Python languages — Preceding unsigned comment added by Monolithed (talk • contribs) 19:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Poor article
This article needs citations, looks too subjective. Also starts the article by saying the greatest example is some Dj-dunnowhatitsnameis and bla bla bla. It's like I write about soccer and start the article by saying the greatest example of a soccer player is Pele or Maradona or Messi or whatever. That must be changed if you want the article to be taken seriously. Then it talks a lot about warcraft and grand theft auto I was like Wtf dude? Are you serious lol Just an advice, this article needs impartial cleanup. --<font color="MidnightBlue">Paolo <font color="MidnightBlue"> Costa 17:21, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Useless twaddle
I concur! This article lacks peer review and verifiable content. I call it the "Valley Girl" complex, substituting 'like' for 'said' and all. Me? I write in Esperanto using a Dvorak keyboard. Then again, I'm an ancient one, a ghost of the long-lost past when proper use of spelling and grammar enhanced your credibility, not Emily Post, but the Chicago Style Manual, where you have to write as if you wanted to avoid howls of derisive laughter from an audience of pie-faced goofs judging your Doctoral Thesis Defence. My systems programming professor at ASU would grade sidebar coments in your assembler code, -15 points for use of passive mode (he even had a red stamp for that), -5 for spelling errors, you could lose your valedictorian status based on sidebar comments; didn't matter if your code worked as advertised. ...and do delete the naughty bits. Wouldn't want children to read about leeks. But I digress. Time for my nap. Hpfeil (talk) 17:14, 20 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Wait what? - M0rphzone (talk) 04:26, 21 April 2012 (UTC)