Talk:Leopold Ružička

Untitled
Professor Ružička was known as Leopold, that was his first name for his colleagues and friends in Switzerland, not Lavoslav. Close friends called him "Poldi". 85.212.175.202 18:49, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Nationality
I added nationality : Croat .Don't change it — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.172.226.148 (talk • contribs) 17:32, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Terpene versus Terpineol
Near the beginning of the section Work and research, the phrase "chemistry of Terpene" doesn't make sense. A change consistent with the following description is "chemistry of Terpineol," which is why I made the change. Page Notes (talk) 22:48, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

MOS:ETHNICITY
in your recent partial revert, you (apart from changing the citizenship, which I am not discussing now) changed Swiss to Croatian-Swiss, which is a clear violation of the guideline in the title. Since you have not addressed that part of your change in the summary, I assume you did it accidentally? If so, please remove the "Croatian" part. If you have something against MOS:ETHNICITY we can move this to the MOS talk page. Notrium (talk) 14:24, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * No, I did not do it accidentally, but fairly not just restoring a change after edit warring without consensus, but as well MOS ethnicity is not violated, since it is relevantly notable regarding the subject.(KIENGIR (talk) 14:29, 14 June 2020 (UTC))
 * No, this is a clear violation of MOS:ETHNICITY, as shown by the Cesar Chavez example. Chavez is described as American, despite his Mexican ethnicity; Ružička is the same kind of case. (In fact I would say Ružička's ethnicity has got even less to do with his notability as a chemist, than Chavez' ethnicity has to do with his notability.) Notrium (talk) 15:03, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * No it's not a violation, because Ružička is treated as Croatian Nobel Prize winner, so this case it is relevant (there are cases when such are relevant, also when not, also when disputed, any other case - i.e. now Chavez - does not influence what is here, every case may be judged individually).(KIENGIR (talk) 15:24, 14 June 2020 (UTC))
 * No idea what you mean by "Croatian Nobel Prize winner". Notrium (talk) 16:13, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * He is a Croatian Nobel prize winner.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:25, 14 June 2020 (UTC))

The Tesla's RfC is still ongoing, in about two weeks or so we'll know more on what constitutes a notable ethnicity. Regarding citizenship, in the Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia it was called "Hungarian-Croatian citizenship" ("ugarsko-hrvatsko državljanstvo"), and named as such in documents issued by its institutions. quote (p. 59):

"Here the complex structure of the Monarchy, which included Austrian and Hungarian part, and Croatian-Slavonian limited autonomy within Hungarian part, had reflection in the matters of citizenship. Namely, there were two national citizenships, Austrian and Hungarian. In Hungarian part, this citizenship was the same for all the lands of the Hungarian Crown, but Croatia-Slavonia had executive autonomy in the matters of citizenship, including autonomy in naturalizations. In Croatia-Slavonia, the name of this citizenship was Hungarian-Croatian citizenship." Tezwoo (talk) 20:08, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * "we'll know more on what constitutes a notable ethnicity" - That will affect only the Nikola Tesla article. If we want something more general, the guidelines/policies need to be changed AFAIK. That's why the RfC is on Tesla's (sub-)page, no? Notrium (talk) 20:41, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Taking history into consideration, nothing useful will be found from Tesla RfC. However, it's not too much relevant since notability should be addressed form case to case. Regarding Hungarian citizenship, I can put this source forward (unfortunately it's on Croatian) which is also stating that Hungarian citizenship was named Croatian-Hungarian citizenship in Croatia. Page 803 5.43.173.12 (talk) 21:10, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I know that it will affect Tesla's article, but at least we might get a grasp on what is a notable ethnicity. About the citizenship, there are scanned documents online from that time where it can be seen that the citizenships issued in Zagreb were named "Hungarian-Croatian citizenship", so that should not be disputed. Tezwoo (talk) 22:04, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not that familiar with Ruzicka, but I would tend to avoid ethnicity in the lead. I see that it is specified in the article body. I'm not seeing any of his work connected to Croatia? Has he published any scientific work in Croatia? 5.43.173.12 (talk) 00:18, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * We need to have clear proof and RS presented that their Croatian ethnicity is notable for the lead, like we know for Tesla and Pupin. Otherwise - it should be removed. I think that's fair.  Sadkσ  (talk is cheap)  13:50, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Please keep your POV-pushing on topic. Notrium (talk) 13:53, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Please learn how to talk/discuss with other people and editors, that is the basis of fruitfull human existence. ty  Sadkσ  (talk is cheap)  14:06, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * You came here asserting something about some "clear proof" that "ethnicity is notable for the lead" "for Tesla and Pupin" as if that were an accepted fact. That is clearly POV-pushing, and off topic because Tesla and Pupin are off-topic on this article. Notrium (talk) 14:21, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * At this point when a RfC is still opened on Tesla article where many people are arguing that ethnicity is not notable for Tesla, it's very misleading to claim that "we know for Tesla". Furthermore, the whole case (from all editors at Tesla RfC) that Tesla's ethnicity is notable for Wiki lead in Tesla RfC lies upon 2 arguments. One is that RfC and numerous discussions and disputes about his ethnicity make it notable. It's a circular argument and it can't go far. By that principle this discussion we are having here is making Ruzicka's ethnicity notable. The second one is that some sources are listing Tesla's ethnicity. Thus, if some sources are listing Ruzicka's ethnicity, it's notable enough for lead. Looking at article body where his ethnicity is stated, I see the sources, so by that principle this is enough to move the ethnicity to the lead. Furthermore, your argument at Tesla RfC is that "Serbian-American is not only ethnicity, but his ethnic and national identity". Ruzicka Croatian-Swiss is not only ethnicity , but also his ethnic and national identity. You have diametrically opposite stand on the very same matter. You are deliberately making misleading claims that "we know for Tesla". All that makes me think your stand is indeed driven by POV instead of arguments. 89.201.200.208 (talk) 14:35, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The debate about Tesla should not be imported here, irrelevant.
 * , - eventually I recognized you :) - to the citizenship issue, see this:
 * "Law L 1879 declared ‘citizenship (állampolgárság) to be one and the same in all the Lands of the Hungarian Crown’ (§1)."
 * How you'd interpret it? Until 1879 would be functioned the HUN-CRO citizenship, and after not? Or it would mark the beginning of it? If so, how was before? Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 08:46, 18 June 2020 (UTC))
 * Ivan Kosnica (the source I linked in the first comment) says that the 1879 law "was completely in accordance with the Croatian-Hungarian Compromise of 1868 and with the legal practice established in the period before the citizenship law of 1879 entered into force in 1880." For citizens of Hungary, it was defined as "Hungarian citizenship", and for citizens of Croatia-Slavonia as "Hungarian-Croatian citizenship" (although in practice there were other names for it too, such as Croatian-Slavonian citizenship, but this was not the legal name), and all issues regarding citizenships were handled by their local governments. They functioned as the same within the Lands of the Crown of Saint Stephen. Tezwoo (talk) 16:52, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

this could help me understand: in your phrase "Croatian Nobel Prize winner", does "Croatian" stand for nationality or ethnicity? Notrium (talk) 00:03, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It stands the same way as for any Nobel Prize winner who are associated with a country.(KIENGIR (talk) 07:14, 19 June 2020 (UTC))
 * Uhm, Ružička is obviously not associated with Croatia, the country. Your position befuddles me, since I know your knowledge in that area is more than adequate. Would you please consider elaborating on your statements? Notrium (talk) 15:26, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Another thing, I just checked, and it seems WP does not have any special handling of Nobel laureates. Notrium (talk) 15:30, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
 * You deny he is (and/or treated) as a Croatian Nobel Prize Winner? This is the point, nothing else.(KIENGIR (talk) 16:04, 20 June 2020 (UTC))
 * I wouldn't be surprised if he were "treated as a Croatian Nobel Prize Winner" in Croatia, but I don't see how that's relevant. Notrium (talk) 16:11, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Earning a Nobel prize is world fame.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:09, 23 June 2020 (UTC))
 * Sure, but I don't get your point. What does world fame got to do with calling him "Croatian" in the lead sentence? Notrium (talk) 22:23, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Because it is relevant to the subject's notability, i.e.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:35, 25 June 2020 (UTC))
 * Could you, please, state your argument in full, I can't connect the logic of it. Also, it seems you accidentally deleted the end of your last comment before posting? Notrium (talk) 22:58, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
 * No, that was my full comment, I think I answered all your questions thoroughly. That means, because he is a Croatian Noble Prize Winner, a notable person, etc., "Croatian" will not be removed.(KIENGIR (talk) 04:34, 27 June 2020 (UTC))