Talk:Lionel Messi/Archive 25

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 August 2023
Messi’s Inter Miami CAPS and goals are currently 0 and as of August 4, 2023, he has 3 CAPS and 5 goals for Inter Miami. 2600:1700:9EAF:D010:F4AE:D598:35D:60C4 (talk) 01:44, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Please provide a source, and keep in mind that for the infobox, only league matches are counted, not the League Cup. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 02:22, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * why is league cup not counted? 2601:80:4000:6BF0:31BF:C6AD:F182:1239 (talk) 06:04, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 August 2023
Change Messi’s appearances for inter Miami to 4 and goal count to 7 Adepx (talk) 03:59, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * No per above. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 06:12, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 August 2023
41.140.94.169 (talk) 00:15, 9 August 2023 (UTC)I would like to correct the numbers of Lionel Messi's Apps and goals
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 01:39, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 August 2023
Add a record on Inter Miami : On August 2023, Messi becomes the top goal scorer of the team just after 4 matches, bypassing Ariel Lassister the previous striker. 201.207.239.194 (talk) 00:17, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

@E (Insecure Account) 2603:6010:B600:F82C:7C6B:691F:1240:90FA (talk) 01:40, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Note: The way you wrote it isn't what the source says, which is that he's the top scorer for the team in 2023. According to this source, as of Aug 14 he was in a 4-way tie for #4 all-time for the team, though in many fewer games than the three other players he shares it with. The all-time #1 scorer for the team is Gonzalo Higuain with 29 goals in over 70 games. At his current pace, Messi would equal that record in just 17 games, which would indeed be impressive--but Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. I think this is WP:NOTNEWS, so I'm not going to add it, but I'll leave your request open in case some other editor thinks this is more than just an early hot-streak worthy of mention. Xan747 ✈️ 🧑‍✈️ 18:40, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ❌. Yeah, it's trivia at the moment. It can be mentioned when he passed Higuain, which won't be long at this rate. Black Kite (talk) 18:44, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Legacy
Can someone make a legacy header for Lionel Messi, I mean hes one of the greatest players ever JwillWiki454 (talk) 02:35, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * He is already described that way in the top section, and there are plenty of more specific accolades throughout the article. Plus, it seems premature to to discuss his legacy before he's even retired as a player. Xan747 ✈️ 🧑‍✈️ 18:04, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Can you add Legacy as a header on his article anyway. I mean hes a legendary player. JwillWiki454 (talk) 18:34, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * He is indeed compared to legendary players--Pelé for instance--and described as such in the book, Caioli, Luca (2012). Messi: The Inside Story of the Boy Who Became a Legend. But that's a little different from having a legacy, which is to pass something on to a new generation.
 * Also, I wouldn't create a new section without something to put in it, at least a good 300 words, and it would be up to *you* to write it, not some other editor. I would encourage you to do so, in your own user space for instance, then submit it as an edit request and see what happens. Maybe it could be folded into the article in an existing section.
 * Even better might be to start smaller. Look at existing sources already cited in this article, and mine them for another sentence or two which highlight the reasons he's already considered one of the all-time best players, then submit a specific edit request to have it added. Ping me if you like and I'll have a look at it. Good luck and have fun! Xan747 ✈️ 🧑‍✈️ 19:13, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 August 2023
It shows that Messi has 0 apps and 0 goals for inter Miami, but actually he has 6 apps and 9 goals. PabloJB10 (talk) 04:35, 16 August 2023 (UTC)


 * ❌ The senior career section only lists matches and goals in domestic leagues (MLS), excluding cup competitions. Annh07 (talk) 07:06, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 August 2023 (2)
Change the reference to Messi’s wife from his “partner” to his “wife”. Both he and his ice would be offended by this as they are Catholic. Please, respect his religion. 108.147.2.59 (talk) 16:17, 16 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Can you provide a source that refers to her as his wife? We can only go off what reliable sources say, not what you think might offend him and his "ice". – PeeJay 16:42, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: The only instance of referring to her has "partner" was talking about something from several years before they were married. Girlfriend or significant other could work, but partner is perfectly fine as is. WikiVirusC (talk) 19:54, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

2005 Supercopa de España
Despite Barcelona listing this on the website as part of Messi’s honours, he was not part of the squad that competed in the tournament in either leg and did not receive a winners medal. It should not be listed there. Faren29 (talk) 00:13, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 August 2023
inter miami 6 games 9 goals Felshaboury (talk) 12:45, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING AN EDIT REQUEST! If you have come here to post that Messi's appearance and goals total in the infobox should be updated, please note that these totals only include league games, such as Major League Soccer. Please do not ask for the totals to be updated for matches in other competitions such as the Leagues Cup, which the July 21 match vs Cruz Azul and July 25 match against Atlanta United were a part of. Messi's total appearances and goals for each club are displayed at the bottom of the article. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:57, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Club and international career split proposal
Lionel Messi Lionel Messi, Club career of Lionel Messi, and International career of Lionel Messi — The prose word count for this page is over 23,000. This far exceeds the rule of thumb defined by WP:SIZERULE, which recommends articles with over 15,000 words of prose "almost certainly should be divided." I can't imagine most find this page a comfortable read, so I'm wondering if it's too crazy of an idea to split the content in the "Club career" and "International career" sections into their own articles, and replace them here with shorter, more concise sections consisting a few paragraphs written in summary style. That way, readers wanting a more general overview of his career don't have to read... all that, for the lack of a better description. — AFC Vixen 🦊 06:17, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Endorse this completely. To repeat what I said on your talk page (along with an apology for jumping the gun), its not been done before I don't think, but a topic of this size could do with it. We've had to trim the Messi article before, but your proposal would allow us to do that most effectively while still having sub articles to provide more club/international detail. Had a look at a featured article of another sportsman (Michael Jordan), and that's pretty much the way to summarise seasons. Basically have the crux of each season, the notable games, achievements, events etc. Similar to Jordan an article on Messi is always going to be bigger than the norm given the subject matter. Jordan's article is just over 200Kb, and doing this proposal to Messi's would allow us to get similar. Nampa DC (talk) 08:54, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * seems needless.Muur (talk) 03:17, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree Messi is too big he really does amazing things and he needs a separate article for this since other people really want to know a summary about him and not go through all that reading 41.116.138.244 (talk) 02:55, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose the solution is to cut the article down to a manageable size, not create lots of spin-off articles to hide the underlying problem. So many arbitrary stats listed in prose that could be cut down as a start. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:43, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't be opposed to this idea but I agree with Joseph that it would be a good idea to start by reducing the article size to see if it that would solve the problem. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 10:59, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I find it incredibly difficult to imagine how we can consolidate these extensive sections full of well-sourced, notable events in Messi's career into just a few paragraphs, without straight-up erasing them from Wikipedia. — AFC Vixen 🦊 07:19, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I highly doubt that every fact mentioned in the article is encyclopaedically relevant. – PeeJay 16:28, 27 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose per Joseph; we are an encyclopedia, not a sports almanac.
 * Oppose The club career season sections especially are bloated in many cases. Black Kite (talk) 18:30, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment: I agree with PeeJay et al. suggesting that there is likely encyclopaedically irrelevant content on the article, but I don't quite buy the "we're not a sports almanac" argument, there is literally articles such as the Religious views of the Beatles and Muhammad Ali, is this website a religious forum? The vast majority of content on this article is notable and would probably be mentioned in any other GA/FA sports biography. Culling the bloated information is a very good start but in the chance that its not enough, then an option like this is certainly reasonable.


 * Oppose: Simply not necessary. Sadsadas, (talk), 31 July 2023, 20:11.


 * Comment: I feel a single "Career timeline of Lionel Messi" type of article would be better. Rather than split into two separate. Keep them separate like we currently have, but in one article. MatthewNewHouse (talk) 17:46, 7 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose, every footballers (soccer players) have their club and international careers and they are in their own biographies, so its not necessary. Guyrichtheman (talk) 05:40, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose, career biography should always be part of the main page and not split into another.Oahid (talk) 05:57, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Messi's goals and matches at Inter Miami
Add goals and matches of Messi since he joined Inter Miami Mwambetayassin (talk) 06:49, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 August 2023
Change "Widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, Messi has won a record seven Ballon d'Or awards[note 2] and a record six European Golden Shoes, and in 2020 he was named to the Ballon d'Or Dream Team." to

"Widely regarded as the greatest player of all time,  Messi has won a record seven Ballon d'Or awards[note 2] and a record six European Golden Shoes, and in 2020 he was named to the Ballon d'Or Dream Team. Messi is the most decorated player in the football history with 44 official titles." 49.204.138.12 (talk) 05:11, 20 August 2023 (UTC)


 * why "most decorated player with 44 titles" is not added. It's there in Dani Alves's page but not in Messi's page.https://sportsbrief.com/football/47156-lionel-messi-decorated-player-wins-leagues-cup-inter-miami/ 49.204.138.12 (talk) 07:51, 20 August 2023 (UTC)


 * already discussed multiple times and consensus was for the current version --FMSky (talk) 05:23, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 August 2023 (2)
The number of goals and appearances by Messi for Barcelona is incorrect. He scored 672 goals in 778 appearances. The page is showing 474 goals only, these are La Liga goals and exclude all other conpetitions. Please can you correct? 2A00:23C6:5E1B:1101:5D4E:ED28:5286:C754 (talk) 09:17, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ❌ League goals only in the infobox, as it clearly states. Joseph2302</b> (talk) 10:50, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 August 2023
Edit Leo Messi’s number of games played and goals scored with Inter Miami. Currently it is written as 0 games, 0 goals. 98.0.242.106 (talk) 00:39, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING AN EDIT REQUEST! If you have come here to post that Messi's appearance and goals total in the infobox should be updated, please note that these totals only include league games, such as Major League Soccer. Please do not ask for the totals to be updated for matches in other competitions such as the Leagues Cup, which the July 21 match vs Cruz Azul and July 25 match against Atlanta United were a part of. Messi's total appearances and goals for each club are displayed at the bottom of the article. Eduardo2024 (talk) 00:43, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

2005 Supercopa de España
2005 Spanish super Cup should also be included for messi. Reason:-super cup titles were won when the player was at the club, but the player didn't play in.

Again, the usual trophy count for both players includes 1 each like this. For Messi, it's the 2005 Spanish Super Cup. For Alves, the 2018 French Super Cup. Prat005 (talk) 15:57, 21 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Follow the consensus. NextEditor123 (talk) 18:28, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Most decorated player in football history.
It is recognised in the club career section, but it really should be in the top section too, given the significance of this achievement. It is currently in Dani Alves' top section, so there is no reason as to why it shouldn't be in Messi's, especially since he has now surpassed Alves. 2A00:23C7:999C:5901:C00D:9A29:24E4:2831 (talk) 17:38, 21 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes I have been seeing it since yesterday. There seems to be some kind of hesitation or bias for putting out the fact. 49.205.84.156 (talk) 18:07, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Follow the consensus. NextEditor123 (talk) 18:29, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * My simple question is why the most decorated footballer with 44 trophies which includes both club and international trophies is mentioned in club career section? Shouldn't it be in top section similar to Dani Alves page? Could you please specify the consensus 49.205.84.156 (talk) 18:38, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I understand that fanboyism shouldn't be encouraged but this is pure fact. Every article is reporting except Wikipedia, which by putting it in club section raises suspicion? 49.205.84.156 (talk) 18:42, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * If you can edit articles correctly, you can put it there. NextEditor123 (talk) 20:59, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Messi's 44 trophies
According to multiple reliable sources such as FC Barcelona, Goal.com, Sports Illustrated the Major League Soccer... Messi now has won 44 trophies, becoming the most decorated footballer of all time, and those include 35 with Barcelona, 5 with Argentina, 3 with PSG and 1 with Miami. Can we state in the article that Messi has this record, and finally recognize his 35 trophies with Barcelona instead of the supposed 34, as the team's official website constantly confirms it? Let's discuss about this once and for all. Mazewaxie ( talk  •  contribs ) 13:18, 20 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Read the consensus, thanks. Eduardo2024 (talk) 14:05, 20 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I could agree with that, but, using the same logic, why do we need a note for the 4 Champions League titles, since he played multiple games and even scored in the 2005/06 Champions League season? -- Mazewaxie ( talk  •  contribs ) 14:34, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * It was mentioned by the official UEFA website, maybe thats why. Eduardo2024 (talk) 14:46, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * There are hundreds of players who didn't play UCL final, can you add a similar note to the honours section of all those players? Why is it that only Messi has a note in the honours section? Since UEFA mentions that, is that a valid reason? 14.191.211.24 (talk) 15:36, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Not every player has a article in UEFA website. Read WP:RS, thanks. Eduardo2024 (talk) 00:45, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That's not a reasonable answer to the logic I posed. 14.191.210.48 (talk) 13:41, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm asking you not that I want you to actually do it, but that I want you to realize the contradiction. 14.191.210.48 (talk) 13:52, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The difference is that Lionel Messi was called up for several matches in UEFA Champions League 2005-06 and actually played there (including even round of 16). But he was called up for Supercopa de España in 2005. NextEditor123 (talk) 18:25, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

@NextEditor123 What do you mean? Do you really understand what I'm saying? Did you read the note next to Messi's 2006 UCL championship? The note states that Messi was injured and missed the final (before that, he played 6 games and scored 1 goal). Did you know that many footballers in history have missed final? such as Pele at WC 1962, he was injured in the match against Czechoslovakia, it was the first major injury of his career, and it forced him to sit out the rest of the World Cup. Brazil then won the tournament, giving Pele his second title. There are thousands of footballers who won the championship but they didn't play in the final, is there any note next to their title? why only Messi has. 14.191.210.48 (talk) 19:56, 21 August 2023 (UTC)


 * What are you talking about? I know that Lionel Messi won UEFA Champions League in 2006 and Pelé won FIFA World Cup in 1962. Why are you asking me about the note? I did not put it there. Stop being hysterical fanboy. NextEditor123 (talk) 20:53, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * So why are you joining the discussion? why are you replying to me when you don't understand what i am talking about. You have less than 1000 edits, don't act like an experienced editor and don't impose fanboyism on someone just because you feel like that. 14.191.210.48 (talk) 01:37, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * These editors seems to be Ronaldo fanboys who delete the facts and articles even if put there correctly. I think we should start a petition to let Wikipedia know about these editors 49.205.84.156 (talk) 01:59, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think we should talk about fanboyism, nor should we impose fanboyism on someone just because of their actions. They also made a similar edit in Cristiano Ronaldo's article.
 * The key point here is that they are based on a poll at WikiProject Football three years ago as the basis for the change in the number of titles for both Messi and Ronaldo, but that is controversial when many other footballers also fall into the same situation as Messi and Ronaldo, so having to synchronize them all creates a huge workload for editors. 14.237.136.178 (talk) 02:31, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * There is nothing controversial about the consensus. If you can edit correctly, you should do that in other players' Wikipedia articles. It is pointless to do Whataboutism there. NextEditor123 (talk) 06:36, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * You talk like a child there. NextEditor123 (talk) 06:16, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Says a person without any Wikipedia user account. NextEditor123 (talk) 06:14, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * There is a current discussion at WP:FOOTY to try to reach a new consensus, you are all welcome to participate. Hopefully this will stop all the edit warring in this article and in all the other articles as well. Bocafan76 (talk) 09:30, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

World Cup Trophy
Can you guys at least post a picture of him lifting the world cup under his 2022 World Cup Career. We're talking about arguably the greatest player of all time here winning the crown jewel of the sport. 47.176.80.14 (talk) 18:35, 23 August 2023 (UTC)


 * When you all stop whining there, obnoxious fanboys? NextEditor123 (talk) 21:14, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Messi won a Cup for Inter Miami CF
Messi won leagues cup for Inter Miami CF Connorj2341 (talk) 21:59, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

442 The Greatest of All Time
from the famous Football Magazine. Messi is the GOAT.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ranked-the-100-best-football-players-of-all-time/10 Penyuntinghandal (talk) 00:07, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, and now? Why is this a talk page entry --FMSky (talk) 08:55, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

add Messi Discography
Messi cameo appearance in Maluma & yendel new song "trofeo"Yosur (talk) 17:11, 25 August 2023 (UTC)


 * no 185.182.71.27 (talk) 18:28, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 September 2023
Messi rarely plays attacking midfielder, please put him at forward instead PikaBK88 (talk) 01:36, 3 September 2023 (UTC) I'd like to update Messi's position
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. lizthegrey (talk) 10:06, 3 September 2023 (UTC)