Talk:Lionel Messi/Archive 26

Greatest of all time.
He's widely regarded as the greatest player of all time, not one of the greatest. It's not even an argument anymore. Not changing it would be going against all the football experts worldwide. 88.7.93.184 (talk) 14:00, 20 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Sources that show "all the football experts worldwide" have said this? All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 14:07, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Doing so violates Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy. I also consider Messi the greatest player but maybe we can't get a consensus to add this to the article. 14.191.211.24 (talk) 15:57, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * was discussed countless times. consensus was reached for the current version ---FMSky (talk) 23:41, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Fanboyism should not be allowed in Wikipedia editing. NextEditor123 (talk) 18:26, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * We are not talking about fanboyism. It's a fact. Messi is the GOAT.
 * https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ranked-the-100-best-football-players-of-all-time/10 Penyuntinghandal (talk) 00:11, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * There are many articles that still say Maradona or Pele are the GOAT, and there's current players who think Cristiano is the GOAT, point being is the GOAT debate is not going to be settled in a sport with so much global interest and varied opinions not to mention the dynamic styles of play plus the timelines these players play in. It's fashionable to call Messi the GOAT after he won the World Cup, but in 10 years opinion is likely to change again. Sense there was so few people alive to Witness Pele's World Cup wins, and there was no Ballon D'Or accolades it's going to be difficult if not impossible to quantify who the Goat really is. And I can almost guarantee once the Messi hysterics die down there's going to still be a sufficient amount of people who will claim Pele or Maradona is the GOAT. In individualistic sport like Golf or Tennis, or Chess it's much more exact to determine who the GOAT is even though there's still debate in those communities. In Football, it's nay impossible as there are too many dynamics occurring. The only thing we can say is Messi is (likely) or (probably) the GOAT in some areas of play. 68.189.2.14 (talk) 13:26, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes Messi is the greatest of all time. He is a complete footballer. But for many other people Ronaldo is the GOAT so we can't add the greatest of all time in the article but that doesn't change the fact. He (Messi) is the GOAT. Hyderabadi (talk) 05:35, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Please try to avoid injecting your own personal opinions. Thanks. – PeeJay 08:31, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Messi is the GOAT for some people, Pele is the GOAT for others, some people think the GOAT is Maradona and some people think Ronaldo is. Point being is it's not going to be decided anytime soon, each of those athletes has a claim or some claim to being the GOAT. You could make arguments for each one, and even others not listed. It's a lot like who's the GOAT of Chess, is it Carlsen because he has the highest ELO ever, or is it Kasparov because he had the longest time at the top? You could make arguments for both, and you could also say the game has changed considerably sense Kasparov, some people would even speculate Fischer is better. For the vast majority of sports no one is going to be the single one GOAT. Just go through every single sport and realize for 90% of them there's debate about who's the GOAT and that's not going to change with the world's most popular sport. 68.189.2.14 (talk) 18:45, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Messi filmography
Add Messi debuts messi meets america apple tv series Yosur (talk) 17:47, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Goals for PSG
Lionel Messi has a total of 32 goals for Paris Saint-Germain FC, and not 22 goals as written on the page. This should be corrected. Stoltendestroyer (talk) 21:08, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * As written on the page he scored 32 goals in 75 games. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 23:00, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * They count only leauge's goal here. Out of 32 Messi score 22 goals in ligue 1 and other 10 in UCL(9) and Trophée des Champions(1). Saurab Mani Rimal (talk) 15:40, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * That's not quite right. We count all goals in the stats table further down the article, but in the infobox we only count league goals for the sake of uniformity, since some players/clubs play a lot more cup games than others. – PeeJay 07:57, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

Messi debuts Apple Television Series
Add Messi Filmography - Messi meets America Television Series Yosur (talk) 06:41, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Add filmography Yosur (talk) 06:46, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 October 2023
His stats need updating Dillbob07 (talk) 09:46, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Liu1126 (talk) 10:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 October 2023
Lionel Messi has become the first player to win a Ballon d'Or while not playing for a European club 190.213.202.23 (talk) 23:05, 30 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Metro is considered a generally unreliable source — see WP:METRO. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 06:09, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Why does it show only 1 goal with Miami?
why does it show only 1 goal with Miami? 172.83.160.128 (talk) 14:38, 1 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Are you referring to the infobox? The total statistics table further down below shows 11 goals.  The infobox has an asterisk for the stats saying, *Club domestic league appearances and goals, so the 1 goal is omitting the US Open Cup and League's Cup appearances/goals since they are not regular "domestic league" play. -2pou (talk) 16:37, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Individual awards
Miss a Bronze Boot at World Cup 2014 2A02:B023:8011:84B9:4DCE:B142:8BF3:A8F (talk) 10:21, 31 October 2023 (UTC)


 * 2014 FIFA World Cup: Bronze boot went to Neymar that year. -2pou (talk) 17:23, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It was only a formality, they have same number of goals and assists, on the Wikipedia Italian page "Mondiale 2014" Messi is indicated. 151.16.153.127 (talk) 09:47, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Number of Ballon d'Or awards
Under the "Player Profile" section, it has been written that since 2008, Messi has won seven Ballons d'Or, however it should be eight Ballons d'Or since he won a Ballon d'Or on 30th October, 2023. Source - https://time.com/6330031/messi-ballon-d-or-2023/ SleepyPenguin38 (talk) 11:00, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 November 2023
Lionel Messi has scored the most goals in Europe in all competitions (excluding friendlies) with 704 goals. 82.37.116.70 (talk) 16:50, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 21:52, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Messi became co owner of kru esports
add it messi became co owner of kru esports 103.213.1.248 (talk) 06:12, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Please provide reliable source for the claim. Rasnaboy (talk) 12:11, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * check it on social media 103.213.1.248 (talk) 12:22, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * You need to provide the source. You can't just tell people to check it for themselves. – PeeJay 12:30, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Messi became co owner of kru esports
 * source:
 * https://esportsinsider.com/2023/11/messi-co-owner-kru-esports 103.213.1.248 (talk) 14:42, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 November 2023
Change "Messi relocated to Spain from Argentina aged 13 to join Barcelona, for whom he made his competitive debut aged 17 in October 2004." to "Messi relocated to Spain from Argentina at age 13 to join Barcelona, for whom he made his competitive debut aged 17 in October 2004." Evanf32 (talk) 22:43, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Evanf32: I feel like I'm playing one of those spot the difference games, am I missing something? What exactly is being changed here? —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 06:26, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Aged 13 has been changed to at age 13. Evanf32 (talk) 14:55, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 November 2023
188.236.67.157 (talk) 20:04, 19 November 2023 (UTC) His wife's full name- Celia Maria Cuccittini - add to Early Life
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: unsourced and irrelevant. M.Bitton (talk) 20:05, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

His full name
LIONEL ANDRÉS MESSI CUCCITINI 188.113.95.213 (talk) 19:59, 25 November 2023 (UTC)+

Source: https://players.fcbarcelona.com/en/player/548-messi-lionel-andres-messi-cuccitini

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 December 2023
Messi was chosen TIME's 2023 athlete of the year so i wanna add to that to his honours. Robuu (talk) 15:36, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Shadow311 (talk) 00:52, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Source https://time.com/6342417/athlete-of-the-year-2023-lionel-messi/ 103.213.1.248 (talk) 04:17, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Add honours
Messi Named Time Athelete of the year 2023 Source https://time.com/6342417/athlete-of-the-year-2023-lionel-messi/ 103.213.1.248 (talk) 06:11, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 December 2023
I will change the amount of goals that he has scored in the MLS to 11 goals instead of 1 47.200.16.202 (talk) 20:29, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: no reason or reliable source given for the proposed change. M.Bitton (talk) 21:33, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 December 2023
Andreixs99 (talk) 16:50, 13 December 2023 (UTC) Hi i want to edit Messi Wikipedia in english because i edit in Romain and i want to edit the wrongs on english
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you. Shadow311 (talk) 15:56, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 December 2023 (2)
Andreixs99 (talk) 16:57, 13 December 2023 (UTC) Hi i want to sugest to edit messi palmares for ucl titles he doesn't play in 2006-2007 și he don't have the trophy
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Shadow311 (talk) 15:56, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

FIFA Player of the Year proposal
Hi. I was thinking we could change the lead into something like this "Messi has won a record eight Ballon d'Or awards, a record six European Golden Shoes, and he was named the world's best player by FIFA a record seven times." I think it could be appropriate, since the FIFA Ballon d'Or is recognized both by France Football and FIFA, so he's an eight time Ballon d'Or winner (2009, 2019, 2021, 2023 France Football Ballon d'Or - 2010, 2011, 2012, 2015 FIFA Ballon d'Or) as it's currently stated, but technically he is also seven time "world's best" according to FIFA (2009 FIFA World Player of the Year - 2010, 2011, 2012, 2015 FIFA Ballon d'Or - 2019, 2021, 2022 FIFA The Best Men's Player), as it's highlighted here. What do you think about this idea? Mazewaxie ( talk  •  contribs ) 21:14, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Messi world cup shirts auction
Set of 6 Messi World Cup shirts sells for $7.8 million at auction in New York source 103.213.1.248 (talk) 05:29, 15 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:01, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Name
He has hardly changed his full name? Why not add Cuccittini even though he doesn't use it all the time? 157.157.39.168 (talk) 15:03, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the french, spanish, german Wiki-pages etc. all have that one wrong...--Berserkur (talk) 23:46, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Add filmography
add captains of the world Netflix series 210.16.85.202 (talk) 05:13, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 January 2024
Change “Until leaving the club in 2021, he had spent his entire professional career with Barcelona, where he won a club-record 34 trophies, including ten La Liga titles, seven Copa del Rey titles and the UEFA Champions League four times.” to “Messi is the most decorated footballer of all time holding a record of winning 44 collective trophies during his senior career, a club-record of 34 trophies during his professional career with Barcelona, including ten La Liga titles, seven Copa del Rey titles and the UEFA Champions League four times until leaving the club 2021.”

Source: https://www.telegraphindia.com/my-kolkata/people/lionel-messi-becomes-the-most-decorated-footballer-of-all-time/cid/1960279 2001:E68:543C:9407:E803:97B5:8510:A666 (talk) 12:52, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Isnt completely clear and the sources contradict themselves. Dani Alves is often considered the most decorated footballer ever, see the lead in his article --FMSky (talk) 18:00, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * please change to messi most decorated player of all time 103.213.1.249 (talk) 18:38, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Splitting proposal
So, should we splitting this into sub-articles? If so, which parts? Mazewaxie ( talk  •  contribs ) 16:53, 28 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Philanthropy 210.16.85.202 (talk) 18:11, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe Messi at Barcelona could be hived off, its pretty beefy. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 22:00, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
 * yes correct 2409:408D:397:6C1B:422E:B018:9F01:13A2 (talk) 06:14, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * May be philanthropy section can done like David beckham 210.16.85.202 (talk) 05:12, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The Club career needs to be divided, and ideally, the article should be kept below 15,000 words of readable prose, a limit that must not be surpassed. Essentially, we should put the "Club career" and "International career" into their own page titled "Career of Lionel Messi" or something like that. If we do this, we won't need to split anything also as it will be below 15k readable prose. 750h+ (talk) 07:34, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I think the club career should be together, and the international career should be the sub article. Yotrages (talk)14:43 31 December 2023

A previous discussion indicated overwhelming opposition to the idea of splitting the page. Deleting content is clearly the preference. — AFC Vixen 🦊 11:37, 2 January 2024 (UTC)


 * The problem is that Messi's career is really long and full of relevant events, accomplishments, trophies etc., so deleting content is quite difficult. Mazewaxie  ( talk  •  contribs ) 11:40, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Agreed, we can just split the Club career and International career sections into a page titled "Career of Lionel Messi". 750h+ (talk) 11:42, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Then we should realign our concept of "relevant" to overlap more with a more general audience that may not have as deep an interest in football and football personalities such as us. — AFC Vixen 🦊 11:42, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Not really interested in football, just want to facilitate the split. I'll help in anyway possible 750h+ (talk) 12:30, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * As mentioned above, a split would be against consensus. — AFC Vixen 🦊 12:32, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Just anything to help. 750h+ (talk) 12:36, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should reconsider the consensus. I looked at some big celebrities, and some have multiple sub-articles to their names, like Elvis Presley, for example, detailing his personal relationships, cultural depictions, cultural impact, and so on. Messi is arguably the greatest footballer to ever live, it would be a pity, in my opinion, to trim down crucial details of his football career instead of splitting into multiple articles. Mazewaxie  ( talk  •  contribs ) 22:07, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I saw the banner and decided to have a go; I've trimmed the first four sections of extraneous details and bloating (merging the last two), but it is the next sections that are most objectionable; there is simply no need to have three or four lengthy paragraphs per season. If no-one objects, I'll continue trimming tomorrow. AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 02:18, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
 * thanks for the link. It doesnt look like a formal RFC. I think that trimming large quantities of content about an ultra-famous person like this is going to be challenging. I think a formal split proposal or RFC might be better suited. When I just look at it very quickly (I dont edit this article too much) I see on average a few (like 3 or 4) paragraphs per each two years at Barcelona. Doesnt seem remotely UNDUE to me, given the notoriety of this subject. Particularly now that he won the world cup and is often referred to as the greatest (or even if we use one of the greatest) it probably isnt remotely undue. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 09:08, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
 * It was indeed a formal proposal per the procedure outlined at WP:PROSPLIT, including on the page. I think that your confusion maybe due to the failure of any appropriate third party to properly close the discussion, which was likely caused by, and  perhaps failing to notice this when they . In any case, it's clear that the opinion on this talk page changed significantly since then, so I'll create a second split proposal shortly. — AFC Vixen 🦊 06:37, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Wrong reasoning to Messi not joining River Plate in his childhood
In the early life section is said that Messi was going to join River Plate but the deal wasn't completed as the club didn't want to cover his medical expenses

This is a misscontruction of the facts, Messi had a succesful trial at River Plate but was part of Newell's old Boys' academy and to make the transfer they had to approve it. River Plate wanted to pay for the treatment. This is part of the reason they had to hide their first travels to Barcelona, as they didn't want Newell's directives to know.

Messi clarified this on an interview back in 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j_9BM75kS0 MesopotamicMark (talk) 15:52, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9PDCRi3eeg here's a cut of the interview with only the section refering to this topic — Preceding unsigned comment added by MesopotamicMark (talk • contribs) 15:56, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Olimpia Awards
Messi has won 4 Olimpia Awards / Argentina athlete of the year. You should add it in honour section considering it's still related with "Argentina Footballer of the year award". Penyuntinghandal (talk) 05:36, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Icon of the Seas
Someone should add the fact that Messi has been confirmed to Christen the Icon of the Seas Coileater (talk) 12:49, 8 January 2024 (UTC)


 * @Coileater well, this article is also not up to date
 * Lionel Messi is past 6 apps in Miami
 * They should really fix that
 * Lindo Kabini (talk) 15:50, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Messi has only played six regular season matches for Miami. Read the notice above the edit box.  Sounder Bruce  07:42, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @SounderBruce can you please tell me how to make a title for my article Lindo Kabini (talk) 08:15, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 January 2024
Add the World Cup 2022 champions/winners title in his career man has earned it 103.46.201.25 (talk) 14:17, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 * ❌ This information is already in the article. Black Kite (talk) 18:38, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Split
Add new section for philanthropy 103.213.1.249 (talk) 17:38, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 * ❌ This information is already in the article. Black Kite (talk) 18:38, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 January 2024
Remove both issue templates & put them into multiple issues. Lo1vesedi2ting (talk) 19:33, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ MadGuy7023 (talk) 19:41, 19 January 2024 (UTC)