Talk:List of Irgun attacks

Comments
These incidents may be accurate or not; may be attributable to Etzel or not; may have been authorized by Etzel leadership or not; may involve non-combatants or not. Much more work needs to be done to assess them and bring them to an encyclopedic level.

And since you're doing this work, what about a listing of all attacks against Jews in the same time frame?

--Leifern 17:19, 2005 Mar 21 (UTC)


 * The book from which I took this list was written in 1951 by sympathizers of the Irgun and Lehi, with cooperation with Aba Ahimeir, and a few other Revisionists, based on the Etzel Archives. The book is a chronology of all events related to these organizations (as well as the Hagana during the brief period of cooperation) from 1936 to 1948, including arrests, illegal immigration, "executions" of suspected colaborators and attacks against Arab and British targets, for which they claim responsibility and take pride of.
 * The book does not list attacks on Jews, except for when they are directly related (i.e., the Irgun/Lehi response was immidiate). The wording of the book does not indicate whether the victims where civilian or combatants in most of the cases listed (the exceptions being when the victims where policemen, as I have specified, e.g., April 12, 1938), and during the late 1940's attacks against Arabs are usually described as attacks against "gangs" or "rebels", which might suggest that in the absense of other adjectives, the victims were civilians. Also, one would immagine that attacks on markets and cafe's are aimed at civilians.
 * Based on this book, I can also compile a list of their attacks during the 1940's, as well as Lehi attacks, arrests, illegal immigration, etc., when I have the time. Alas, there are no comperhensive lists of Arab attacks in this book, but the challange is interesting and I'll look it up if I find the time. Of course it would be quite discouraging to bother to do such research only for you to slap the TotallyDisputed patch on what I have painstakingly written.


 * Now tell me what exactly are you disputing? The patch you added says that you totally dispute the neutrality and the factual accuracy of the article. If it is not neutral, it is biased towards the Irgun (whose sympethizers wrote it), which I can't see any reason to think. If you dispute it's truth, then why? Are you aware of any dispute regarding it? Can you bring up any argument at all against it?


 * I suggest you remove the "TotallyDisputed" template until you have reasonable arguments against it.--Doron 08:40, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * I see no reason to take your word for the idea that your source is "sympathetic" to Etzel, and I can't even find mention of several of these incidents on the web. Hence, I dispute the factual accuracy.  This should also include mention of the incidents that sparked the Etzel retaliation, which it doesn't, so it's biased.  --Leifern 11:47, 2005 Mar 22 (UTC)


 * Don't take my word, you can look the book up for yourself if you can read Hebrew. Next time I get to the National Library, I can photocopy and put on the web some pages that would demonstrate the style in which the book was written, including praising of the militants' courage to retaliate to Arab aggression and words of poetry by Uri Zvi Greenberg. Will this satisfy you?
 * Surely you don't take seriously your argument that some of these attacks, which took place almost seventy years ago, are not mentioned on the world-wide-web?
 * Right now it's just a list of deads, there's nothing biased about it. A list of dead Jews doesn't have to be accompanied by a list of dead Arabs, and vice versa, in order to be unbiased. But you are more than welcome to contribute a background note to this list, if this is what stands in the way of making this NPOV.--Doron 13:24, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It's not simply a list of casualties; it's a list of incidents that resulted in casualties. I don't doubt that you've derived these from a book you found, but I haven't had time to ascertain whether this book is accurate. For one thing, a lot has been uncovered sine 1951; such as who perpetrated what attacks. I think it's highly relevant to explain what provoked the attacks. As for my point that things aren't on the web, you're kidding, right? There are countless fraudulent, false, and slanderous allegations against Israel on the web - I can't imagine that the many enemies of Etzel (which, btw, include Israelis on the left wing) would let any opportunity go by to document allegations of Etzel atrocities/attacks. --Leifern 13:50, 2005 Mar 22 (UTC)


 * I haven't had time to ascertain anything you have written, still I don't put a TotallyDisputed label on everything you write. An article isn't "disputed" just because someone doesn't like it, s/he should bring up reasonable arguments.


 * This is a long list of attacks that bears no resemblance to anything else I've seen; there's a difference, and you know it.
 * Have you seen other lists? Do they claim to be exhaustive? Did you see an estimate that contradicts this list? What you think you "know" is of no interest to wikipedia, only facts.


 * The book was written by Irgun- and Lehi-affiliated writers, based on the Etzel Archives. A second edition was printed in 1981 by the Israel Ministry of Defense, with essentially the same contents. The book specifies who perpetrated what attack based on its sources.


 * Fine; when someone else who has access to these books can confirm them, they're welcome to remove the tag.
 * I am willing to scan pages from the book and put them on the web for your judgement. Will this satisfy you?


 * As I said before, if you think that explaining what provoked the attacks would contribute to the article, by all means you are welcome to contribute, I'm sure no one would do it better than you.


 * There is a difference between unprovoked, gratuituous attacks and those that were a retaliation for another specific event.
 * If you still find the article biased, improve it.


 * The fact that something is not on the web does not indicate it is false (and vice versa), surely you realize the absurdity of your argument. I'll just note that I originally heard of the book in a reader's response in the Ha'aretz newspaper a couple of months ago. Also I remember that Uri Avnery quoted a brief list of attacks from this book, in an article that was actually on the web, but I can't seem to find it now.--Doron 14:17, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Uri Avnery is not an unbiased source; the reason I search on the web is to cross-reference information. I generally like to see dissimilar and unrelated sources before I consider something on the web to remotely trustworthy.
 * I never said Avnery was an unbiased source. You said you've never seen anything like this and I have told you how I came across the list. I did not attribute the list to Avnery, I attributed it to its authors who were Irgun members.


 * Also you might want to have a look here at the March 19 entry. This is no pinko website.--Doron 14:36, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * This is a group that advocates terrorism as a political strategy - why would they understate the number of Irgun attacks?
 * Don't distort this - the kahane webpage does not understate the number of Irgun attacks, it does not claim to be giving an exhaustive list and it states that "this is only a small part of the list".


 * Yaakov 'Amrami, one of the authors, was the head of Irgun intelligence in the mid 1940's.--Doron 14:57, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * The other author, Arie Melitz (nom de guerre of Menahem Meletzky) was a commander in the Irgun.--Doron 15:02, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * The totallydisputed tag stays - I keep consulting several works and can not find anything approaching the number of attacks you're attributing to Irgun.


 * The totallydisputed tag goes. I am willing to make the effort of photocopying and scanning pages from the book for your judgement to prove its authenticity, if you accept; until you can provide evidence that refute this list, you have no case.


 * You should know that it's hard to prove that something didn't happen; in any event, I'll put in the NPOV tag, because this is ridiculously biased. --Leifern 01:44, 2005 Mar 25 (UTC)


 * I agree it's hard to prove that something didn't happen. That makes your job more challanging, it doesn't mean you can automatically dispute any evidence you don't believe in. The truth is that neither of us know for fact what happened then (I wasn't born until decades later, I'm guessing that so were you) and we have to rely on information produced, collected and processed by others. You seem awefully convinced that this list is false, (hence trying to "prove they didn't happen"), if you have concrete information that contradicts or refutes the list then bring it forward. Otherwise, one may think that you are only against it because it dishonors Irgun, which you seem to sympethize with. I'll just have you know that the authors of the book took pride in these attacks.


 * Regarding the NPOV tag, I'll accept it for now. I see your point that the list only tells one side of the story (though it does not pretend to tell both sides, given the title). The book I quoted only gives Arab attacks when they provoked an immidiate Irgun attack, so one thing I can do to make the article more balanced is to mention these attacks next to the corresponding Irgun attack; however, there are only a few of these Arab attacks, which might create a false impression that those are the only Arab attacks that took place. I am yet to come across a comperhensive list of Arab attacks during the years of the mandate. What do you think?


 * It should be everyone's goal to have as little as possible NPOV tags in Wikipedia, so I would like to know what you suggest should be done with this article to make it NPOV.--Doron 12:55, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Let me stipulate a few facts here, just so you understand my skepticism: --Leifern 14:15, 2005 Mar 25 (UTC)
 * Irgun members admit that they committed bomb attacks against Arab targets, such as marketplaces, train stations, etc. I am not disputing the nature of their methods, only the magnitude of their activities.
 * On the other hand, there were a lot of incidents during this time, and I'm not convinced they've all been fully accounted for
 * Irgun is one of the most controversial historical organizations in Israel - it is viewed by many as the predecessor to Likud, the training ground for several prominent Israeli politicians and leaders, and the largest of the non-Socialist groups in the mandatory era. As a result, its legacy is hotly contested - detractors want to make it into something evil; supporters want to highlight its methods as effective.  Pretty much everyone has an axe to grind.
 * Anti-Zionists never hesitate to highlight any alleged Israeli misdeeds, often to the point of distortion, exaggeration, and outright fabrication. It seems highly unlikely that they would lose the opportunity to post a list such of yours all over the place, again and again.


 * On what grounds are you disputing the magnitude of their activities? Do you have information that contradicts the list? It seems that you think that we're all out there to bash Irgun, but I have no interest in information that is not true (even though I admit I'm no Irgun fan). So please, why did the magnitude of their activity reflected from the list surprise you so much, what did you expect it to be? What do your other sources say about it?
 * What can I say? Aparently these anti-Zionists did not come across this rare Hebrew book. Otherwise you can be sure they would have posted it again and again all over the place. So again, either these anti-Zionists' research did not lead them to this rare Hebrew book, or I am lying and this book does not exist. Do you need proof of its existance?--Doron 17:31, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Don't know if this works, but this link should show you the catalog record of this book in the National Library.--Doron 17:37, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The archives of the Irgun are available on microfiche in quite a few libraries (published by Zug). There is at least one fairly extensive list of operations in there which I have seen. I will soon look again at the copy in my library, but my Hebrew is not great (a euphemism for bloody awful). I expect the compilation here is pretty close to the facts, since the incidents apparently did occur (I checked a random selection in a newspaper archive) and the Irgun was doing precisely this type of thing at the time. I don't think a dispute tag is appropriate without even a single explicit example of a disputed fact. --Zero 10:23, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Actually this list is quite incomplete and the figure of 250 is way too low. There are already 267 listed here despite major operations being missing and the casualty figures for some being too low. I'll add some more with citations. --Zero 05:42, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

However, my checking (still only covering a fraction of the list) found two death counts exaggerated. In particular, the figure of 78 given in one place was for all casualties, not only deaths. Looking through the newspapers, a considerable number of lesser incidents such as individual shootings, small bombs, etc, can be seen to have caused quite a lot of deaths in total. However, there is no algorithm for knowing which were perpetrated by Irgun members even though probably many were. --Zero 07:11, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Irgun attacks on Arab targets began in September 1937, not in November. Already on Sep 2 the Palestine Post noted the apparent emergence of Jewish reprisal attacks, and several sources mention an attack which killed 13 Arabs in "early September". All add details if/when I can find them. --Zero 08:08, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

The Bowyer Bell book I added to the references of Zionist Terrorism is an accessible source and confirmation for some of these attacks, with background. I'll add some stuff here tomorrow maybe.--John Z 09:37, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Well done! I collected the original info from just one source - the book by the Irgun militants, to illustrate the extent of Irgun attacks against Arab civilians. This online searchable Palestine Post site is quite a find!--Doron 08:45, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

This article would be improved by a sentence indicating WHY the Irgun was formed. It was a response to Arab attacks on Jews. The article as it stands lacks context. Labellesanslebete (talk) 12:55, 7 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Disagree. That would be duplication of the function of the article Irgun.  An article like this one should stick to its stated purpose. Zerotalk 17:28, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

The Irgun website does NOT cite any of those attacks
The whole attribution is questionable. The Irgun website which takes pride at its actions during the fight for Israel's independence, shows that most of these attacks, if they indeed EVER took place were not done by the Irgun. The whole article is a mere accusation, because Irgun denies those attacks to this very day. 217.132.77.167 17:57, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

The Irgun was disbanded in 1948, so how can it have a website in 2006? Of course the answer is that the website is one that someone has created in memory/honor of the Irgun. What they have chosen to admit or not admit there has no bearing on the truth. Their motivation for not listing the attacks of the 1930s is pretty obvious anyway. But enough of irrelevant websites, the important thing is whether the Irgun did these attacks or not (the fact that the attacks happened at all is easily checked in a newspaper archive). Doron initialised the list based on the Hebrew book he cited in the article and it remains much the same now except that we corrected some of the details from newspaper reports. (Christophe: that is not original research, everything here is based on verifiable published sources.) Doron's book does not give an extreme viewpoint, but the viewpoint long ago admitted by the Irgun and accepted by historians. Now I'll give some sources for this statement.

One place to start in English is Bowyer-Bell's book "Terror out of Zion" which lists many of these attacks based on interviews with Irgun members. An example of an Irgun admission is the book "Years of Wrath, Days of Glory; Memoirs of the Irgun" by Yitshaq Ben-Ami (who was an Irgun member for almost the whole time it existed). Some quotations: Next I'll give some general statements by historians. Yehuda Bauer wrote in "From Diplomacy to Resistance", Jewish Publication Society, 1970: During the period of command over Etzel by Moshe Rosenberg and David Raziel, a great many assaults (some of them en masse) were carried out against Arab bystanders and shoppers: men, women, and children (November 1937-July 1939). (p14) Nicholas Bethel wrote in "The Palestine Triangle": Their [the Irgun's] own pamphlets boast of the indiscriminate killing of Arabs, listed day by day, and go on to claim that the murderers are 'those who saved the honour of Israel', that their acts were 'fighting acts of persons who believe that the Jewish kingdom will be created by force, after having overpowered the Arab enemy in the battle'. (p124) There are many similar statements in history books, but I'll conclude with a much more explicit statement. The following is from "Jewish Self-Defence and Terrorist Groups Prior to the Establishment of the State of ISRAEL: Roots and Traditions" published in the peer-reviewed journal Totalitarian Movements & Political Religions, Vol 4, 3 (2003) 91-118 by Arie Perliger (Department of Political Science at the University of Haifa) and Leonard Weinberg (University of Nevada): In fact, the Etzel leaders did choose a terrorist approach, that is, conducting operations that had political goals, intended to establish a reign of terror by carrying out arbitrary attacks on the Arab population, such as the killing of two Palestinian workers in a banana plantation on 20 April 1936, followed two days later by shooting and the throwing of a grenade at Arab passers-by in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Between 1936 and 1939, the Etzel continued to conduct terrorist activities while methodically attempting to provide a rational justification for the violence by calling it retaliation for Arab attacks; for example, the shooting at a passenger train in August 1936 was justified as a response to the shooting at civilian Jews in Tel Aviv a day earlier by Arabs. Soon, however, the Etzel abandoned this policy line and announced a terrorist campaign intended to provide a suitable response to the ‘Arab Uprising’. This approach reflected the Etzel’s world view, which considered political violence and terrorism legitimate tools in the Jewish national struggle for the Land of Israel. The Etzel’s terrorist campaign against the Arab population lasted until the end of the ‘Arab Uprising’ in 1939 and included more than 60 attacks. An attempt to characterise the Etzel’s activities in this period leads us to note its four major tactics: assassination attempts, attacks on transportation routes, shootings, and the use of explosive devices. More specifically, its first course of action was random assassination of Arab labour workers or passers-by. These attacks occurred in various cities (such as the shooting at Arabs in the downtown area of Haifa in June 1938, and a month later at Arabs walking near the Sheari Tzedek Hospital in Jerusalem) as well as at more isolated areas (such as the killing of two Arabs on the beach in Bat-Yam in March 1937, and the killing of two other Arabs in the fields near the Hefer valley that same month). Encouraged by its success and the experience accumulated by its members, the Etzel expanded its range of activities to include ambushes and systematic attacks on major transportation arteries (shooting at a bus with Arab passengers in July 1938, throwing explosives at another bus in September 1937, shooting at a truck with an Arab driver in November 1937), and shooting attacks on Arab population centres (using a semi-machine gun and throwing a grenade at an Arab coffee shop in Jerusalem in November 1937, throwing explosives at another coffee shop in Haifa in April 1937, and the use of a semi-automatic machine gun to shoot at an Arab group in Haifa in May of 1939). The organisation also expanded its tactics to include the detonation of explosives by remote control. The most dramatic act in this regard was the planting of a mine in the Arab market in Haifa in July 1938, an attack which resulted in the death of more than 70 Arabs. (The last one had 70 casualties, not 70 deaths.) Perliger and Weinberg's sources for this section are informative: one is volume 2 of the 6-volume "official history" by former Irgun member David Niv: "Battle for Freedom: The Irgun Zvai Leumi" (Tel Aviv: Klausner Institute, 1966). The other two are published by organizations associated with the Irgun: Joseph Kister, "The National Military Organization, 1931–1948" (Tel Aviv: Etzel Museum, 1998) and Yitzhak Alfasi, "The National Military Organization Sources and Documents" (Tel  Aviv: Jabotinski Institute, 1992). In other words, their information comes directly or indirectly from Irgun sources, and it is simply not true that the Irgun denies these attacks. --Zerotalk 12:22, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I found that a version of Perliger and Weinberg's article is free online at . I didn't check if it is the same as in the journal, though I noticed some trivial differences. --Zerotalk 14:19, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Begin on terrorism
Menachem Begin, The Revolt, page 100.

'''Our enemies called us terrorists. . . . And yet we were not terrorists.''' The original Latin word “terror” means fear. If I am not mistaken the term “terror” became current in political terminology during the French Revolution. The revolutionaries began cutting off heads with the guillotine in order to instill fear. Thenceforward the word “terror” came to define acts of revolutionaries or counter-revolutionaries, of fighters for freedom and oppressors. It all depends on who uses the term. It frequently happens that it is used by both sides in their mutual exchange of compliments. '''The historical and linguistic origins of the political term “terror” prove it cannot be applied to a revolutionary war of liberation'''. A revolution may give birth to what we call “terror” as happened in France. Terror may sometimes be its herald, as what happened in Russia. But the revolution itself is not terror, and terror is not the revolution. A revolution, or a revolutionary war, does not aim at instilling fear. Its object is to overthrow a regime and to set up a new regime in its place. In a revolutionary war both sides use force. Tyranny is armed. Otherwise it would be liquidated overnight. Fighters for freedom must arm; otherwise they would be crushed overnight. Certainly the use of force also awakens fear. Tyrannous rulers begin to fear for their positions or their lives, or both. And consequently they begin to try to sow fear among those they rule. But the instilling of fear is not an aim in itself. The sole aim on the one side is the overthrow of armed tyranny; on the other it is the perpetuation of that tyranny.

Therefore the much discredited study of perlinger is removed from the LEAD as strict well-poisoning and wrong factual information, and restore to the previous correct version. Amoruso 21:44, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Very funny. A thoroughly sourced study of terrorist acts is disallowed because one of the chief terrorists doesn't like it!  Now I've heard everything.  --Zerotalk 11:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * So you admit it's an opinion of this writer perliger ? Therefore it's irrelevant and removed. It's obviously not the opinion of the people he claims to hold these opinions. At any case, it's of course in violation of wikipedia:lead. Amoruso 12:00, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Let's get this straight. Are you saying that Etzel did not believe at the time that acts like those listed here were "legitimate tools in the Jewish national struggle for the Land of Israel"?  --Zerotalk 15:03, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm saying Begin and leaders before him didn't call it "terrorism" as the reference suggests, and yes, acts in the 30's depicted in the article, weren't directed at all for the "liberation of the land". The acts directed for the liberation of land were the acts directed against the British acts during the 1948 war and its early stage. The acts directed against Arabs were retliatory in nature to scare Arabs and to deter them from attacking Jews showing that there will be responses when such attacks occur. They were violent and against innocents no doubt but that was their motive. This is called in hebrew "peulot tagmul" and were also performed by Israel in the early 1950's for exactly the same purpose against fedayeen. Amoruso 12:10, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Menachem Begin, The Revolt, page 70 (in my 1952 English edition), ch.VI;
 * "Hands up, quick. I´m not a bloody British officer, I´m a terrorist of the Irgun Zvai Leumi." ..according to Begin, this was said by the Irgun "captain" Gideon (=Giddy) when they attacked the British military base Akir. Regards, Huldra 09:23, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Citations please
Please provide inline citations to an English language for all statements in this article. Andjam (talk) 12:30, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The source is given in the article. It is in Hebrew and has been checked by user:Zero0000. Ceedjee (talk) 11:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Category:Jewish terrorism
Please see the discussion about Irgun at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration. --Timeshifter (talk) 16:59, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Irgun views on terrorism
The previous text of the entry implied that the Irgun view terrorism as legitimate. They, however, did not; they asserted that their actions were not terrorism. If you want to say that they viewed as legitimate tools tactics that others have called terrorism, that would be a different story. As for whether or not it was terrorism-- you must prove that they purposefully targeted civilians. You have not, nor have Perliger and Weinberg. -- Unisgned —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.160.254.242 (talk) 00:55, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * If you go to the Irgun article, this issue is addressed with WP:RS. I just added refs from Irgun article to two specific allegations. More info from that article could be added if people think necessary.
 * Also I can see that Prof. Yehuda Lapidot and Bell are sources for the chart and moved there. Moved other books to additional reading until someone who has seen them can move up to chart reference. Removed refs tag. Also note that there were attacks after the 1930s that have to be added and lead and description of chart changed, but project for another day. Carol Moore 14:52, 18 November 2008 (UTC)Carolmooredc


 * I was thinking this page should be updated with attacks of the 1940s, yet just noticed that the name of the article specifies only 1930s. Any reason not to remove "during the 1930s" and update it with other WP:RS attacks?? Just linking to List of massacres committed prior to the 1948 Arab–Israeli war in Mandate Palestine at the end seems insufficient for someone wanting an overview. Carol Moore 00:25, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, unless someone can come up with a good reason to limit the attacks to the 1930s. TPaineTX (talk) 02:49, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * There seems no reason to limit ourselves in this fashion. PRtalk 12:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

A new attack
Needs more specific date but: Jerusalem Post 4-23-09: ''On March 30, 1936, the British inaugurated their Palestine Broadcasting Service (PBS), a radio station that operated out of Ramallah and, three years later, moved to this splendid site. The PBS had been broadcasting from Jerusalem for less than two months when underground IZL forces (Irgun Tzvai Leumi) bombed the building and two of the personnel were killed. The British went back to transmitting from Ramallah and, after the State of Israel was declared, this became the home of Israel Radio.'' CarolMooreDC (talk) 16:42, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

List of deleted attacks
Current List

Previous List

Difference

An editor deleted a huge list of attacks. So we should clear out if the attacks are made up as claimed or real first. Kasaalan (talk) 13:37, 28 April 2009 (UTC)


 * People should hustle up references and add them to existing or deleted ones. I thought there were a couple good references on that? CarolMooreDC (talk) 22:55, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

The massive deletion done by User:Doonizs was completely unjustified. The edit summary says "Made up attacks. Never existed". Below is how the Palestine Post reported one of these "non-existent events". In fact everything in the table came originally from a good source, mostly from a Hebrew source favorable to Etzel, but the individual source of each item was not recorded. Clearly that should be corrected but it is a lot of work. Zerotalk 09:33, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Image:PP26Jul1938.jpg


 * Do them by source, one source a day, and pretty soon they'll be all done. It's been near the bottom of my list for a while too. CarolMooreDC (talk) 00:16, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Deleted Attacks from the Table
I will try finding references. Kasaalan (talk) 12:19, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Why Zionism template removed
Irgun was zionist, why Zionism template removed. Kasaalan (talk) 18:32, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

New: 1947 attacks
Didn't find any current refs but found this source with several new attacks. Any problems with adding? From: Donald Neff, Hamas: A Pale Image of the Jewish Irgun And Lehi Gangs, Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, May/June 2006, pages 14-15
 * Jan. 12—Four killed by Irgun terrorist bombing of British headquarters.
 * July 3—“Anti-terrorist” Jewish families beaten up by Irgunists.
 * Sept. 26—Four British policemen killed in Irgun terrorist bank robbery.
 * Sept. 29—13 killed, 53 wounded in Irgun terrorist attack on British police   station.
 * Dec. 29—14 Arabs killed by Irgun bomb in Jerusalem.
 * Dec. 29—Irgun flogs British major and three sergeants.
 * Dec. 31—Irgun claims to have killed 374 Arabs and British during year. CarolMooreDC (talk) 00:42, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Right, the article is missing lots of 1947-1948 attacks. Some of these are ineligible as we are only including cases resulting in death.  One thing I have found is that death tolls are unreliable; for that I suggest looking in the Palestine Post over the 1-3 days after the attack (not just 1 day after).  A link allowing free access is at the end of Palestine Post. For sources that give the Irgun attribution, Milstein's books are good, also Morris 'Victims' and some others.  WRMEA is too partisan to rely on solely. Zerotalk 05:06, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, there is a list of Etzel operations in Hebrew here: http://www.etzel.org.il/dates/frame.htm. Since the editor of that site (Lapidot) has Irgun-apologist and academic credentials, I suggest it is reliable to the extent that listing of an operation there means the Irgun admits it. However, absence can mean it is too embarrassing to include. Also, operations are described too briefly for us to use that list directly. Zerotalk 05:22, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, i went through http://www.etzel.org.il/ articles and got everything mentioning casualties and entering now. Also occurred to me the easy way to find refs for others is to go to books.google.com, type in the date and city or incident and see what comes up. A particularly good source with relatively easy access is: Terror out of Zion: the fight for Israeli independence by J. Bowyer Bell, Moshe Arens- 1996 CarolMooreDC (talk) 03:27, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Status of refs
Besides the ones I did last night finishing of The Irgun website (and corrections this am) and one or two new ones this am, I could not find other refs down to June 23, 1938. I assume they are in Arie Perliger and Leonard Weinberg (whose web page and I assume book largely call Irgun "Etzel," which should be mentioned in footnote??) and/or Bell and Arens (which one can only search so many times on books.google before they shut you out of searching, dang it.)  If someone has either, both, books, maybe they could look? I did notice lots of people are quoting wikipedia on this, often leaving the note in there.

I did find this ref which I think is ok but others might balk: April 17, 1938 An Arab was killed by a bomb detonated in a cafe in Haifa. Who are the terrorists?: Aspects of Zionist and Israeli terrorism Page 5, by Muʼassasat al-Dirāsāt al-Filas īnīyah, Arab Women's Information Committee (Beirut, Lebanon), Institut des études palestiniennes (Beyrouth) - 1972 - 74 pages whose search summary reads:''March 17, 1937 Four bombs thrown into Arab cafe's in Jaffa; 1 Arab killed, 10 injured.'' CarolMooreDC (talk) 15:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

More needing references

 * Dec 10, 1947 - 6 Arabs killed, 30 wounded, bomb at Jaffa cinema
 * same day       - 7 Arabs killed, several bombs at Damascus Gate
 * Dec 12, 1947 - 4 Arabs killed, many wounded, bomb thrown at Arab bus in Haifa

These are in my notes but I'm far from home. Maybe in Milstein. Zerotalk 08:13, 12 July 2009 (UTC)


 * So then all the items have been restored and only those need references? Thanks. CarolMooreDC (talk) 22:15, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Need: Rome embassy bombing, 1946. Zerotalk 12:36, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Mess up of the table
Why did you messed up the table and removed comments column out of it. It would be useful for adding references there, or more detail. Kasaalan (talk) 09:58, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I fixed it myself. But try discussing before removing columns. Kasaalan (talk) 10:36, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I hardly "messed up" the table by removing a column containing nothing but "-" symbols. I didn't see the harm in removing it, or anything worth discussing, and I'm happy to see that adding it back took little effort once filling it with actual information became necessary.--Doron (talk) 23:56, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It tooks major time to readd columns and no little effort. Kasaalan (talk) 01:03, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your work! CarolMooreDC (talk) 14:30, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The column left for moving references or notes under it in the first place. If you can add a notes column for event details, or wikilink the dates I can seriously thank you too. Kasaalan (talk) 16:14, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Who are the Palestinians in April 9, 1948 ?
Nableezy has reverted my following only change: from "107-120 Arabs killed..." to "107-120 Palestinians killed..." So my question is: what happens just in April 9, 1948 changing the Arabs from February 10, 1948 to the Palestinians? As I know, (as minimum) in 1948 all the Palestinian Arabs, Jews. Druzes, etc. were referred to as 'Palestinians'. - Igorp_lj (talk) 18:33, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Arab is too generic, but a clarification could be useful. Palestinian Arabs could be used.  nableezy  - 22:34, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Moved discussion from article
The following was posted into the article by an anon, I am moving it here:
 * The article itself now contains an obvious internal contradiction. In the summary, it says that 'during 11 years of attacks, 194-207+ Arabs (1 policeman, rest civilian)' were killed by Irgun attacks. Yet simply counting the individual incidents yields a total of 530. Others might interpret some of the entries differently (ethnicity isn't always specified, nor is the total body count) and come up with a slightly different total -- but not '194-207.' Between two and three times that figure.

I agree, it is old. Probably it is OR to prepare such a total ourselves anyway. I'm deleting it. Zerotalk 10:19, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * During my edit time the numbers were accurate sum of the article. I noted they were sum of the article. One way or another without a sum of casualties, list based article is not that useful. We may recalculate the case, do not delete sum. I didn't review the article for a while. Kasaalan (talk) 11:32, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * By the way are you sure about 530 civilians, my sum was accurate and 200, it wasn't even near 500. Did you add 300 civilian casualties. Kasaalan (talk) 12:04, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Lots of incidents have been added. And there are probably more. Zerotalk 12:54, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I completely revised the layout and numbers. Until someone add a correct number, it is hundreds as a general term. Kasaalan (talk) 14:12, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

wrong date
"1938, February 27 	33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem." was it in 1938(it should be put higher) or in 1939 ? it should be changed then — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.130.0.14 (talk) 13:01, 28 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Definitely 1939. Fixed.  Zerotalk 01:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Yehudieh
..is mentioned. WHo or what is it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.130.0.14 (talk) 13:14, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yehudiya Zerotalk 01:23, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi all
Hi, I changed the name of the article from "List of Irgun attacks" to "List of Irgun operations" in order to broaden the scope of the article; instead of just attacks, now more of their operations can be listed (for example, prison breaks with no casualties).

Also, I am currently working on User:Ethanbas/List of Lehi operations; feel free to help out with that! Ethanbas (talk) 16:03, 28 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi Ethanbas. As I wrote on your talk page, I think the new title is an improvement over the old one, particularly from an NPOV perspective. Thank you. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 16:15, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Incomplete, but published: List of Lehi operations Ethanbas (talk) 02:30, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 19:04, 25 December 2017 (UTC) Next I'll give some general statements by historians. Yehuda Bauer wrote in "From Diplomacy to Resistance", Jewish Publication Society, 1970: Nicholas Bethel wrote in "The Palestine Triangle": Their [the Irgun's] own pamphlets boast of the indiscriminate killing of Arabs, listed day by day, and go on to claim that the murderers are 'those who saved the honour of Israel', that their acts were 'fighting acts of persons who believe that the Jewish kingdom will be created by force, after having overpowered the Arab enemy in the battle'. (p124) There are many similar statements in history books, but I'll conclude with a much more explicit statement. The following is from "Jewish Self-Defence and Terrorist Groups Prior to the Establishment of the State of ISRAEL: Roots and Traditions" published in the peer-reviewed journal Totalitarian Movements & Political Religions, Vol 4, 3 (2003) 91-118 by Arie Perliger (Department of Political Science at the University of Haifa) and Leonard Weinberg (University of Nevada): In fact, the Etzel leaders did choose a terrorist approach, that is, conducting operations that had political goals, intended to establish a reign of terror by carrying out arbitrary attacks on the Arab population, such as the killing of two Palestinian workers in a banana plantation on 20 April 1936, followed two days later by shooting and the throwing of a grenade at Arab passers-by in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Between 1936 and 1939, the Etzel continued to conduct terrorist activities while methodically attempting to provide a rational justification for the violence by calling it retaliation for Arab attacks; for example, the shooting at a passenger train in August 1936 was justified as a response to the shooting at civilian Jews in Tel Aviv a day earlier by Arabs. Soon, however, the Etzel abandoned this policy line and announced a terrorist campaign intended to provide a suitable response to the ‘Arab Uprising’. This approach reflected the Etzel’s world view, which considered political violence and terrorism legitimate tools in the Jewish national struggle for the Land of Israel. The Etzel’s terrorist campaign against the Arab population lasted until the end of the ‘Arab Uprising’ in 1939 and included more than 60 attacks. An attempt to characterise the Etzel’s activities in this period leads us to note its four major tactics: assassination attempts, attacks on transportation routes, shootings, and the use of explosive devices. More specifically, its first course of action was random assassination of Arab labour workers or passers-by. These attacks occurred in various cities (such as the shooting at Arabs in the downtown area of Haifa in June 1938, and a month later at Arabs walking near the Sheari Tzedek Hospital in Jerusalem) as well as at more isolated areas (such as the killing of two Arabs on the beach in Bat-Yam in March 1937, and the killing of two other Arabs in the fields near the Hefer valley that same month). Encouraged by its success and the experience accumulated by its members, the Etzel expanded its range of activities to include ambushes and systematic attacks on major transportation arteries (shooting at a bus with Arab passengers in July 1938, throwing explosives at another bus in September 1937, shooting at a truck with an Arab driver in November 1937), and shooting attacks on Arab population centres (using a semi-machine gun and throwing a grenade at an Arab coffee shop in Jerusalem in November 1937, throwing explosives at another coffee shop in Haifa in April 1937, and the use of a semi-automatic machine gun to shoot at an Arab group in Haifa in May of 1939). The organisation also expanded its tactics to include the detonation of explosives by remote control. The most dramatic act in this regard was the planting of a mine in the Arab market in Haifa in July 1938, an attack which resulted in the death of more than 70 Arabs. (The last one had 70 casualties, not 70 deaths.) Perliger and Weinberg's sources for this section are informative: one is volume 2 of the 6-volume "official history" by former Irgun member David Niv: "Battle for Freedom: The Irgun Zvai Leumi" (Tel Aviv: Klausner Institute, 1966). The other two are published by organizations associated with the Irgun: Joseph Kister, "The National Military Organization, 1931–1948" (Tel Aviv: Etzel Museum, 1998) and Yitzhak Alfasi, "The National Military Organization Sources and Documents" (Tel  Aviv: Jabotinski Institute, 1992). In other words, their information comes directly or indirectly from Irgun sources, and it is simply not true that the Irgun denies these attacks. --Zerotalk 12:22, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I found that a version of Perliger and Weinberg's article is free online at . I didn't check if it is the same as in the journal, though I noticed some trivial differences. --Zerotalk 14:19, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Begin on terrorism
Menachem Begin, The Revolt, page 100.

'''Our enemies called us terrorists. . . . And yet we were not terrorists.''' The original Latin word “terror” means fear. If I am not mistaken the term “terror” became current in political terminology during the French Revolution. The revolutionaries began cutting off heads with the guillotine in order to instill fear. Thenceforward the word “terror” came to define acts of revolutionaries or counter-revolutionaries, of fighters for freedom and oppressors. It all depends on who uses the term. It frequently happens that it is used by both sides in their mutual exchange of compliments. '''The historical and linguistic origins of the political term “terror” prove it cannot be applied to a revolutionary war of liberation'''. A revolution may give birth to what we call “terror” as happened in France. Terror may sometimes be its herald, as what happened in Russia. But the revolution itself is not terror, and terror is not the revolution. A revolution, or a revolutionary war, does not aim at instilling fear. Its object is to overthrow a regime and to set up a new regime in its place. In a revolutionary war both sides use force. Tyranny is armed. Otherwise it would be liquidated overnight. Fighters for freedom must arm; otherwise they would be crushed overnight. Certainly the use of force also awakens fear. Tyrannous rulers begin to fear for their positions or their lives, or both. And consequently they begin to try to sow fear among those they rule. But the instilling of fear is not an aim in itself. The sole aim on the one side is the overthrow of armed tyranny; on the other it is the perpetuation of that tyranny.

Therefore the much discredited study of perlinger is removed from the LEAD as strict well-poisoning and wrong factual information, and restore to the previous correct version. Amoruso 21:44, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Very funny. A thoroughly sourced study of terrorist acts is disallowed because one of the chief terrorists doesn't like it!  Now I've heard everything.  --Zerotalk 11:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * So you admit it's an opinion of this writer perliger ? Therefore it's irrelevant and removed. It's obviously not the opinion of the people he claims to hold these opinions. At any case, it's of course in violation of wikipedia:lead. Amoruso 12:00, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Let's get this straight. Are you saying that Etzel did not believe at the time that acts like those listed here were "legitimate tools in the Jewish national struggle for the Land of Israel"?  --Zerotalk 15:03, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm saying Begin and leaders before him didn't call it "terrorism" as the reference suggests, and yes, acts in the 30's depicted in the article, weren't directed at all for the "liberation of the land". The acts directed for the liberation of land were the acts directed against the British acts during the 1948 war and its early stage. The acts directed against Arabs were retliatory in nature to scare Arabs and to deter them from attacking Jews showing that there will be responses when such attacks occur. They were violent and against innocents no doubt but that was their motive. This is called in hebrew "peulot tagmul" and were also performed by Israel in the early 1950's for exactly the same purpose against fedayeen. Amoruso 12:10, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Menachem Begin, The Revolt, page 70 (in my 1952 English edition), ch.VI;
 * "Hands up, quick. I´m not a bloody British officer, I´m a terrorist of the Irgun Zvai Leumi." ..according to Begin, this was said by the Irgun "captain" Gideon (=Giddy) when they attacked the British military base Akir. Regards, Huldra 09:23, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Citations please
Please provide inline citations to an English language for all statements in this article. Andjam (talk) 12:30, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The source is given in the article. It is in Hebrew and has been checked by user:Zero0000. Ceedjee (talk) 11:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Category:Jewish terrorism
Please see the discussion about Irgun at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration. --Timeshifter (talk) 16:59, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Irgun views on terrorism
The previous text of the entry implied that the Irgun view terrorism as legitimate. They, however, did not; they asserted that their actions were not terrorism. If you want to say that they viewed as legitimate tools tactics that others have called terrorism, that would be a different story. As for whether or not it was terrorism-- you must prove that they purposefully targeted civilians. You have not, nor have Perliger and Weinberg. -- Unisgned —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.160.254.242 (talk) 00:55, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * If you go to the Irgun article, this issue is addressed with WP:RS. I just added refs from Irgun article to two specific allegations. More info from that article could be added if people think necessary.
 * Also I can see that Prof. Yehuda Lapidot and Bell are sources for the chart and moved there. Moved other books to additional reading until someone who has seen them can move up to chart reference. Removed refs tag. Also note that there were attacks after the 1930s that have to be added and lead and description of chart changed, but project for another day. Carol Moore 14:52, 18 November 2008 (UTC)Carolmooredc


 * I was thinking this page should be updated with attacks of the 1940s, yet just noticed that the name of the article specifies only 1930s. Any reason not to remove "during the 1930s" and update it with other WP:RS attacks?? Just linking to List of massacres committed prior to the 1948 Arab–Israeli war in Mandate Palestine at the end seems insufficient for someone wanting an overview. Carol Moore 00:25, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, unless someone can come up with a good reason to limit the attacks to the 1930s. TPaineTX (talk) 02:49, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * There seems no reason to limit ourselves in this fashion. PRtalk 12:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

A new attack
Needs more specific date but: Jerusalem Post 4-23-09: ''On March 30, 1936, the British inaugurated their Palestine Broadcasting Service (PBS), a radio station that operated out of Ramallah and, three years later, moved to this splendid site. The PBS had been broadcasting from Jerusalem for less than two months when underground IZL forces (Irgun Tzvai Leumi) bombed the building and two of the personnel were killed. The British went back to transmitting from Ramallah and, after the State of Israel was declared, this became the home of Israel Radio.'' CarolMooreDC (talk) 16:42, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

List of deleted attacks
Current List

Previous List

Difference

An editor deleted a huge list of attacks. So we should clear out if the attacks are made up as claimed or real first. Kasaalan (talk) 13:37, 28 April 2009 (UTC)


 * People should hustle up references and add them to existing or deleted ones. I thought there were a couple good references on that? CarolMooreDC (talk) 22:55, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

The massive deletion done by User:Doonizs was completely unjustified. The edit summary says "Made up attacks. Never existed". Below is how the Palestine Post reported one of these "non-existent events". In fact everything in the table came originally from a good source, mostly from a Hebrew source favorable to Etzel, but the individual source of each item was not recorded. Clearly that should be corrected but it is a lot of work. Zerotalk 09:33, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Image:PP26Jul1938.jpg


 * Do them by source, one source a day, and pretty soon they'll be all done. It's been near the bottom of my list for a while too. CarolMooreDC (talk) 00:16, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Deleted Attacks from the Table
I will try finding references. Kasaalan (talk) 12:19, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Why Zionism template removed
Irgun was zionist, why Zionism template removed. Kasaalan (talk) 18:32, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

New: 1947 attacks
Didn't find any current refs but found this source with several new attacks. Any problems with adding? From: Donald Neff, Hamas: A Pale Image of the Jewish Irgun And Lehi Gangs, Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, May/June 2006, pages 14-15
 * Jan. 12—Four killed by Irgun terrorist bombing of British headquarters.
 * July 3—“Anti-terrorist” Jewish families beaten up by Irgunists.
 * Sept. 26—Four British policemen killed in Irgun terrorist bank robbery.
 * Sept. 29—13 killed, 53 wounded in Irgun terrorist attack on British police   station.
 * Dec. 29—14 Arabs killed by Irgun bomb in Jerusalem.
 * Dec. 29—Irgun flogs British major and three sergeants.
 * Dec. 31—Irgun claims to have killed 374 Arabs and British during year. CarolMooreDC (talk) 00:42, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Right, the article is missing lots of 1947-1948 attacks. Some of these are ineligible as we are only including cases resulting in death.  One thing I have found is that death tolls are unreliable; for that I suggest looking in the Palestine Post over the 1-3 days after the attack (not just 1 day after).  A link allowing free access is at the end of Palestine Post. For sources that give the Irgun attribution, Milstein's books are good, also Morris 'Victims' and some others.  WRMEA is too partisan to rely on solely. Zerotalk 05:06, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, there is a list of Etzel operations in Hebrew here: http://www.etzel.org.il/dates/frame.htm. Since the editor of that site (Lapidot) has Irgun-apologist and academic credentials, I suggest it is reliable to the extent that listing of an operation there means the Irgun admits it. However, absence can mean it is too embarrassing to include. Also, operations are described too briefly for us to use that list directly. Zerotalk 05:22, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, i went through http://www.etzel.org.il/ articles and got everything mentioning casualties and entering now. Also occurred to me the easy way to find refs for others is to go to books.google.com, type in the date and city or incident and see what comes up. A particularly good source with relatively easy access is: Terror out of Zion: the fight for Israeli independence by J. Bowyer Bell, Moshe Arens- 1996 CarolMooreDC (talk) 03:27, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Status of refs
Besides the ones I did last night finishing of The Irgun website (and corrections this am) and one or two new ones this am, I could not find other refs down to June 23, 1938. I assume they are in Arie Perliger and Leonard Weinberg (whose web page and I assume book largely call Irgun "Etzel," which should be mentioned in footnote??) and/or Bell and Arens (which one can only search so many times on books.google before they shut you out of searching, dang it.)  If someone has either, both, books, maybe they could look? I did notice lots of people are quoting wikipedia on this, often leaving the note in there.

I did find this ref which I think is ok but others might balk: April 17, 1938 An Arab was killed by a bomb detonated in a cafe in Haifa. Who are the terrorists?: Aspects of Zionist and Israeli terrorism Page 5, by Muʼassasat al-Dirāsāt al-Filas īnīyah, Arab Women's Information Committee (Beirut, Lebanon), Institut des études palestiniennes (Beyrouth) - 1972 - 74 pages whose search summary reads:''March 17, 1937 Four bombs thrown into Arab cafe's in Jaffa; 1 Arab killed, 10 injured.'' CarolMooreDC (talk) 15:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

More needing references

 * Dec 10, 1947 - 6 Arabs killed, 30 wounded, bomb at Jaffa cinema
 * same day       - 7 Arabs killed, several bombs at Damascus Gate
 * Dec 12, 1947 - 4 Arabs killed, many wounded, bomb thrown at Arab bus in Haifa

These are in my notes but I'm far from home. Maybe in Milstein. Zerotalk 08:13, 12 July 2009 (UTC)


 * So then all the items have been restored and only those need references? Thanks. CarolMooreDC (talk) 22:15, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Need: Rome embassy bombing, 1946. Zerotalk 12:36, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Mess up of the table
Why did you messed up the table and removed comments column out of it. It would be useful for adding references there, or more detail. Kasaalan (talk) 09:58, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I fixed it myself. But try discussing before removing columns. Kasaalan (talk) 10:36, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I hardly "messed up" the table by removing a column containing nothing but "-" symbols. I didn't see the harm in removing it, or anything worth discussing, and I'm happy to see that adding it back took little effort once filling it with actual information became necessary.--Doron (talk) 23:56, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It tooks major time to readd columns and no little effort. Kasaalan (talk) 01:03, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your work! CarolMooreDC (talk) 14:30, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The column left for moving references or notes under it in the first place. If you can add a notes column for event details, or wikilink the dates I can seriously thank you too. Kasaalan (talk) 16:14, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Who are the Palestinians in April 9, 1948 ?
Nableezy has reverted my following only change: from "107-120 Arabs killed..." to "107-120 Palestinians killed..." So my question is: what happens just in April 9, 1948 changing the Arabs from February 10, 1948 to the Palestinians? As I know, (as minimum) in 1948 all the Palestinian Arabs, Jews. Druzes, etc. were referred to as 'Palestinians'. - Igorp_lj (talk) 18:33, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Arab is too generic, but a clarification could be useful. Palestinian Arabs could be used.  nableezy  - 22:34, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Moved discussion from article
The following was posted into the article by an anon, I am moving it here:
 * The article itself now contains an obvious internal contradiction. In the summary, it says that 'during 11 years of attacks, 194-207+ Arabs (1 policeman, rest civilian)' were killed by Irgun attacks. Yet simply counting the individual incidents yields a total of 530. Others might interpret some of the entries differently (ethnicity isn't always specified, nor is the total body count) and come up with a slightly different total -- but not '194-207.' Between two and three times that figure.

I agree, it is old. Probably it is OR to prepare such a total ourselves anyway. I'm deleting it. Zerotalk 10:19, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * During my edit time the numbers were accurate sum of the article. I noted they were sum of the article. One way or another without a sum of casualties, list based article is not that useful. We may recalculate the case, do not delete sum. I didn't review the article for a while. Kasaalan (talk) 11:32, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * By the way are you sure about 530 civilians, my sum was accurate and 200, it wasn't even near 500. Did you add 300 civilian casualties. Kasaalan (talk) 12:04, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Lots of incidents have been added. And there are probably more. Zerotalk 12:54, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I completely revised the layout and numbers. Until someone add a correct number, it is hundreds as a general term. Kasaalan (talk) 14:12, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

wrong date
"1938, February 27 	33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem." was it in 1938(it should be put higher) or in 1939 ? it should be changed then — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.130.0.14 (talk) 13:01, 28 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Definitely 1939. Fixed.  Zerotalk 01:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Yehudieh
..is mentioned. WHo or what is it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.130.0.14 (talk) 13:14, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yehudiya Zerotalk 01:23, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi all
Hi, I changed the name of the article from "List of Irgun attacks" to "List of Irgun operations" in order to broaden the scope of the article; instead of just attacks, now more of their operations can be listed (for example, prison breaks with no casualties).

Also, I am currently working on User:Ethanbas/List of Lehi operations; feel free to help out with that! Ethanbas (talk) 16:03, 28 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi Ethanbas. As I wrote on your talk page, I think the new title is an improvement over the old one, particularly from an NPOV perspective. Thank you. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 16:15, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Incomplete, but published: List of Lehi operations Ethanbas (talk) 02:30, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 19:04, 25 December 2017 (UTC) Nicholas Bethel wrote in "The Palestine Triangle": There are many similar statements in history books, but I'll conclude with a much more explicit statement. The following is from "Jewish Self-Defence and Terrorist Groups Prior to the Establishment of the State of ISRAEL: Roots and Traditions" published in the peer-reviewed journal Totalitarian Movements & Political Religions, Vol 4, 3 (2003) 91-118 by Arie Perliger (Department of Political Science at the University of Haifa) and Leonard Weinberg (University of Nevada): In fact, the Etzel leaders did choose a terrorist approach, that is, conducting operations that had political goals, intended to establish a reign of terror by carrying out arbitrary attacks on the Arab population, such as the killing of two Palestinian workers in a banana plantation on 20 April 1936, followed two days later by shooting and the throwing of a grenade at Arab passers-by in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Between 1936 and 1939, the Etzel continued to conduct terrorist activities while methodically attempting to provide a rational justification for the violence by calling it retaliation for Arab attacks; for example, the shooting at a passenger train in August 1936 was justified as a response to the shooting at civilian Jews in Tel Aviv a day earlier by Arabs. Soon, however, the Etzel abandoned this policy line and announced a terrorist campaign intended to provide a suitable response to the ‘Arab Uprising’. This approach reflected the Etzel’s world view, which considered political violence and terrorism legitimate tools in the Jewish national struggle for the Land of Israel. The Etzel’s terrorist campaign against the Arab population lasted until the end of the ‘Arab Uprising’ in 1939 and included more than 60 attacks. An attempt to characterise the Etzel’s activities in this period leads us to note its four major tactics: assassination attempts, attacks on transportation routes, shootings, and the use of explosive devices. More specifically, its first course of action was random assassination of Arab labour workers or passers-by. These attacks occurred in various cities (such as the shooting at Arabs in the downtown area of Haifa in June 1938, and a month later at Arabs walking near the Sheari Tzedek Hospital in Jerusalem) as well as at more isolated areas (such as the killing of two Arabs on the beach in Bat-Yam in March 1937, and the killing of two other Arabs in the fields near the Hefer valley that same month). Encouraged by its success and the experience accumulated by its members, the Etzel expanded its range of activities to include ambushes and systematic attacks on major transportation arteries (shooting at a bus with Arab passengers in July 1938, throwing explosives at another bus in September 1937, shooting at a truck with an Arab driver in November 1937), and shooting attacks on Arab population centres (using a semi-machine gun and throwing a grenade at an Arab coffee shop in Jerusalem in November 1937, throwing explosives at another coffee shop in Haifa in April 1937, and the use of a semi-automatic machine gun to shoot at an Arab group in Haifa in May of 1939). The organisation also expanded its tactics to include the detonation of explosives by remote control. The most dramatic act in this regard was the planting of a mine in the Arab market in Haifa in July 1938, an attack which resulted in the death of more than 70 Arabs. (The last one had 70 casualties, not 70 deaths.) Perliger and Weinberg's sources for this section are informative: one is volume 2 of the 6-volume "official history" by former Irgun member David Niv: "Battle for Freedom: The Irgun Zvai Leumi" (Tel Aviv: Klausner Institute, 1966). The other two are published by organizations associated with the Irgun: Joseph Kister, "The National Military Organization, 1931–1948" (Tel Aviv: Etzel Museum, 1998) and Yitzhak Alfasi, "The National Military Organization Sources and Documents" (Tel  Aviv: Jabotinski Institute, 1992). In other words, their information comes directly or indirectly from Irgun sources, and it is simply not true that the Irgun denies these attacks. --Zerotalk 12:22, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I found that a version of Perliger and Weinberg's article is free online at . I didn't check if it is the same as in the journal, though I noticed some trivial differences. --Zerotalk 14:19, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Begin on terrorism
Menachem Begin, The Revolt, page 100.

'''Our enemies called us terrorists. . . . And yet we were not terrorists.''' The original Latin word “terror” means fear. If I am not mistaken the term “terror” became current in political terminology during the French Revolution. The revolutionaries began cutting off heads with the guillotine in order to instill fear. Thenceforward the word “terror” came to define acts of revolutionaries or counter-revolutionaries, of fighters for freedom and oppressors. It all depends on who uses the term. It frequently happens that it is used by both sides in their mutual exchange of compliments. '''The historical and linguistic origins of the political term “terror” prove it cannot be applied to a revolutionary war of liberation'''. A revolution may give birth to what we call “terror” as happened in France. Terror may sometimes be its herald, as what happened in Russia. But the revolution itself is not terror, and terror is not the revolution. A revolution, or a revolutionary war, does not aim at instilling fear. Its object is to overthrow a regime and to set up a new regime in its place. In a revolutionary war both sides use force. Tyranny is armed. Otherwise it would be liquidated overnight. Fighters for freedom must arm; otherwise they would be crushed overnight. Certainly the use of force also awakens fear. Tyrannous rulers begin to fear for their positions or their lives, or both. And consequently they begin to try to sow fear among those they rule. But the instilling of fear is not an aim in itself. The sole aim on the one side is the overthrow of armed tyranny; on the other it is the perpetuation of that tyranny.

Therefore the much discredited study of perlinger is removed from the LEAD as strict well-poisoning and wrong factual information, and restore to the previous correct version. Amoruso 21:44, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Very funny. A thoroughly sourced study of terrorist acts is disallowed because one of the chief terrorists doesn't like it!  Now I've heard everything.  --Zerotalk 11:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * So you admit it's an opinion of this writer perliger ? Therefore it's irrelevant and removed. It's obviously not the opinion of the people he claims to hold these opinions. At any case, it's of course in violation of wikipedia:lead. Amoruso 12:00, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Let's get this straight. Are you saying that Etzel did not believe at the time that acts like those listed here were "legitimate tools in the Jewish national struggle for the Land of Israel"?  --Zerotalk 15:03, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm saying Begin and leaders before him didn't call it "terrorism" as the reference suggests, and yes, acts in the 30's depicted in the article, weren't directed at all for the "liberation of the land". The acts directed for the liberation of land were the acts directed against the British acts during the 1948 war and its early stage. The acts directed against Arabs were retliatory in nature to scare Arabs and to deter them from attacking Jews showing that there will be responses when such attacks occur. They were violent and against innocents no doubt but that was their motive. This is called in hebrew "peulot tagmul" and were also performed by Israel in the early 1950's for exactly the same purpose against fedayeen. Amoruso 12:10, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Menachem Begin, The Revolt, page 70 (in my 1952 English edition), ch.VI;
 * "Hands up, quick. I´m not a bloody British officer, I´m a terrorist of the Irgun Zvai Leumi." ..according to Begin, this was said by the Irgun "captain" Gideon (=Giddy) when they attacked the British military base Akir. Regards, Huldra 09:23, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Citations please
Please provide inline citations to an English language for all statements in this article. Andjam (talk) 12:30, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The source is given in the article. It is in Hebrew and has been checked by user:Zero0000. Ceedjee (talk) 11:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Category:Jewish terrorism
Please see the discussion about Irgun at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration. --Timeshifter (talk) 16:59, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Irgun views on terrorism
The previous text of the entry implied that the Irgun view terrorism as legitimate. They, however, did not; they asserted that their actions were not terrorism. If you want to say that they viewed as legitimate tools tactics that others have called terrorism, that would be a different story. As for whether or not it was terrorism-- you must prove that they purposefully targeted civilians. You have not, nor have Perliger and Weinberg. -- Unisgned —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.160.254.242 (talk) 00:55, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * If you go to the Irgun article, this issue is addressed with WP:RS. I just added refs from Irgun article to two specific allegations. More info from that article could be added if people think necessary.
 * Also I can see that Prof. Yehuda Lapidot and Bell are sources for the chart and moved there. Moved other books to additional reading until someone who has seen them can move up to chart reference. Removed refs tag. Also note that there were attacks after the 1930s that have to be added and lead and description of chart changed, but project for another day. Carol Moore 14:52, 18 November 2008 (UTC)Carolmooredc


 * I was thinking this page should be updated with attacks of the 1940s, yet just noticed that the name of the article specifies only 1930s. Any reason not to remove "during the 1930s" and update it with other WP:RS attacks?? Just linking to List of massacres committed prior to the 1948 Arab–Israeli war in Mandate Palestine at the end seems insufficient for someone wanting an overview. Carol Moore 00:25, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, unless someone can come up with a good reason to limit the attacks to the 1930s. TPaineTX (talk) 02:49, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * There seems no reason to limit ourselves in this fashion. PRtalk 12:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

A new attack
Needs more specific date but: Jerusalem Post 4-23-09: ''On March 30, 1936, the British inaugurated their Palestine Broadcasting Service (PBS), a radio station that operated out of Ramallah and, three years later, moved to this splendid site. The PBS had been broadcasting from Jerusalem for less than two months when underground IZL forces (Irgun Tzvai Leumi) bombed the building and two of the personnel were killed. The British went back to transmitting from Ramallah and, after the State of Israel was declared, this became the home of Israel Radio.'' CarolMooreDC (talk) 16:42, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

List of deleted attacks
Current List

Previous List

Difference

An editor deleted a huge list of attacks. So we should clear out if the attacks are made up as claimed or real first. Kasaalan (talk) 13:37, 28 April 2009 (UTC)


 * People should hustle up references and add them to existing or deleted ones. I thought there were a couple good references on that? CarolMooreDC (talk) 22:55, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

The massive deletion done by User:Doonizs was completely unjustified. The edit summary says "Made up attacks. Never existed". Below is how the Palestine Post reported one of these "non-existent events". In fact everything in the table came originally from a good source, mostly from a Hebrew source favorable to Etzel, but the individual source of each item was not recorded. Clearly that should be corrected but it is a lot of work. Zerotalk 09:33, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Image:PP26Jul1938.jpg


 * Do them by source, one source a day, and pretty soon they'll be all done. It's been near the bottom of my list for a while too. CarolMooreDC (talk) 00:16, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Deleted Attacks from the Table
I will try finding references. Kasaalan (talk) 12:19, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Why Zionism template removed
Irgun was zionist, why Zionism template removed. Kasaalan (talk) 18:32, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

New: 1947 attacks
Didn't find any current refs but found this source with several new attacks. Any problems with adding? From: Donald Neff, Hamas: A Pale Image of the Jewish Irgun And Lehi Gangs, Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, May/June 2006, pages 14-15
 * Jan. 12—Four killed by Irgun terrorist bombing of British headquarters.
 * July 3—“Anti-terrorist” Jewish families beaten up by Irgunists.
 * Sept. 26—Four British policemen killed in Irgun terrorist bank robbery.
 * Sept. 29—13 killed, 53 wounded in Irgun terrorist attack on British police   station.
 * Dec. 29—14 Arabs killed by Irgun bomb in Jerusalem.
 * Dec. 29—Irgun flogs British major and three sergeants.
 * Dec. 31—Irgun claims to have killed 374 Arabs and British during year. CarolMooreDC (talk) 00:42, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Right, the article is missing lots of 1947-1948 attacks. Some of these are ineligible as we are only including cases resulting in death.  One thing I have found is that death tolls are unreliable; for that I suggest looking in the Palestine Post over the 1-3 days after the attack (not just 1 day after).  A link allowing free access is at the end of Palestine Post. For sources that give the Irgun attribution, Milstein's books are good, also Morris 'Victims' and some others.  WRMEA is too partisan to rely on solely. Zerotalk 05:06, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, there is a list of Etzel operations in Hebrew here: http://www.etzel.org.il/dates/frame.htm. Since the editor of that site (Lapidot) has Irgun-apologist and academic credentials, I suggest it is reliable to the extent that listing of an operation there means the Irgun admits it. However, absence can mean it is too embarrassing to include. Also, operations are described too briefly for us to use that list directly. Zerotalk 05:22, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, i went through http://www.etzel.org.il/ articles and got everything mentioning casualties and entering now. Also occurred to me the easy way to find refs for others is to go to books.google.com, type in the date and city or incident and see what comes up. A particularly good source with relatively easy access is: Terror out of Zion: the fight for Israeli independence by J. Bowyer Bell, Moshe Arens- 1996 CarolMooreDC (talk) 03:27, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Status of refs
Besides the ones I did last night finishing of The Irgun website (and corrections this am) and one or two new ones this am, I could not find other refs down to June 23, 1938. I assume they are in Arie Perliger and Leonard Weinberg (whose web page and I assume book largely call Irgun "Etzel," which should be mentioned in footnote??) and/or Bell and Arens (which one can only search so many times on books.google before they shut you out of searching, dang it.)  If someone has either, both, books, maybe they could look? I did notice lots of people are quoting wikipedia on this, often leaving the note in there.

I did find this ref which I think is ok but others might balk: April 17, 1938 An Arab was killed by a bomb detonated in a cafe in Haifa. Who are the terrorists?: Aspects of Zionist and Israeli terrorism Page 5, by Muʼassasat al-Dirāsāt al-Filas īnīyah, Arab Women's Information Committee (Beirut, Lebanon), Institut des études palestiniennes (Beyrouth) - 1972 - 74 pages whose search summary reads:''March 17, 1937 Four bombs thrown into Arab cafe's in Jaffa; 1 Arab killed, 10 injured.'' CarolMooreDC (talk) 15:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

More needing references

 * Dec 10, 1947 - 6 Arabs killed, 30 wounded, bomb at Jaffa cinema
 * same day       - 7 Arabs killed, several bombs at Damascus Gate
 * Dec 12, 1947 - 4 Arabs killed, many wounded, bomb thrown at Arab bus in Haifa

These are in my notes but I'm far from home. Maybe in Milstein. Zerotalk 08:13, 12 July 2009 (UTC)


 * So then all the items have been restored and only those need references? Thanks. CarolMooreDC (talk) 22:15, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Need: Rome embassy bombing, 1946. Zerotalk 12:36, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Mess up of the table
Why did you messed up the table and removed comments column out of it. It would be useful for adding references there, or more detail. Kasaalan (talk) 09:58, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I fixed it myself. But try discussing before removing columns. Kasaalan (talk) 10:36, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I hardly "messed up" the table by removing a column containing nothing but "-" symbols. I didn't see the harm in removing it, or anything worth discussing, and I'm happy to see that adding it back took little effort once filling it with actual information became necessary.--Doron (talk) 23:56, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It tooks major time to readd columns and no little effort. Kasaalan (talk) 01:03, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your work! CarolMooreDC (talk) 14:30, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The column left for moving references or notes under it in the first place. If you can add a notes column for event details, or wikilink the dates I can seriously thank you too. Kasaalan (talk) 16:14, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Who are the Palestinians in April 9, 1948 ?
Nableezy has reverted my following only change: from "107-120 Arabs killed..." to "107-120 Palestinians killed..." So my question is: what happens just in April 9, 1948 changing the Arabs from February 10, 1948 to the Palestinians? As I know, (as minimum) in 1948 all the Palestinian Arabs, Jews. Druzes, etc. were referred to as 'Palestinians'. - Igorp_lj (talk) 18:33, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Arab is too generic, but a clarification could be useful. Palestinian Arabs could be used.  nableezy  - 22:34, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Moved discussion from article
The following was posted into the article by an anon, I am moving it here:
 * The article itself now contains an obvious internal contradiction. In the summary, it says that 'during 11 years of attacks, 194-207+ Arabs (1 policeman, rest civilian)' were killed by Irgun attacks. Yet simply counting the individual incidents yields a total of 530. Others might interpret some of the entries differently (ethnicity isn't always specified, nor is the total body count) and come up with a slightly different total -- but not '194-207.' Between two and three times that figure.

I agree, it is old. Probably it is OR to prepare such a total ourselves anyway. I'm deleting it. Zerotalk 10:19, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * During my edit time the numbers were accurate sum of the article. I noted they were sum of the article. One way or another without a sum of casualties, list based article is not that useful. We may recalculate the case, do not delete sum. I didn't review the article for a while. Kasaalan (talk) 11:32, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * By the way are you sure about 530 civilians, my sum was accurate and 200, it wasn't even near 500. Did you add 300 civilian casualties. Kasaalan (talk) 12:04, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Lots of incidents have been added. And there are probably more. Zerotalk 12:54, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I completely revised the layout and numbers. Until someone add a correct number, it is hundreds as a general term. Kasaalan (talk) 14:12, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

wrong date
"1938, February 27 	33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem." was it in 1938(it should be put higher) or in 1939 ? it should be changed then — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.130.0.14 (talk) 13:01, 28 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Definitely 1939. Fixed.  Zerotalk 01:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Yehudieh
..is mentioned. WHo or what is it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.130.0.14 (talk) 13:14, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yehudiya Zerotalk 01:23, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi all
Hi, I changed the name of the article from "List of Irgun attacks" to "List of Irgun operations" in order to broaden the scope of the article; instead of just attacks, now more of their operations can be listed (for example, prison breaks with no casualties).

Also, I am currently working on User:Ethanbas/List of Lehi operations; feel free to help out with that! Ethanbas (talk) 16:03, 28 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi Ethanbas. As I wrote on your talk page, I think the new title is an improvement over the old one, particularly from an NPOV perspective. Thank you. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 16:15, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Incomplete, but published: List of Lehi operations Ethanbas (talk) 02:30, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 2 external links on List of Irgun operations. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100620145357/http://palestine-encyclopedia.com/EPP/Chapter07_3of7.htm to http://www.palestine-encyclopedia.com/EPP/Chapter07_3of7.htm
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 19:04, 25 December 2017 (UTC) There are many similar statements in history books, but I'll conclude with a much more explicit statement. The following is from "Jewish Self-Defence and Terrorist Groups Prior to the Establishment of the State of ISRAEL: Roots and Traditions" published in the peer-reviewed journal Totalitarian Movements & Political Religions, Vol 4, 3 (2003) 91-118 by Arie Perliger (Department of Political Science at the University of Haifa) and Leonard Weinberg (University of Nevada): (The last one had 70 casualties, not 70 deaths.) Perliger and Weinberg's sources for this section are informative: one is volume 2 of the 6-volume "official history" by former Irgun member David Niv: "Battle for Freedom: The Irgun Zvai Leumi" (Tel Aviv: Klausner Institute, 1966). The other two are published by organizations associated with the Irgun: Joseph Kister, "The National Military Organization, 1931–1948" (Tel Aviv: Etzel Museum, 1998) and Yitzhak Alfasi, "The National Military Organization Sources and Documents" (Tel  Aviv: Jabotinski Institute, 1992). In other words, their information comes directly or indirectly from Irgun sources, and it is simply not true that the Irgun denies these attacks. --Zerotalk 12:22, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I found that a version of Perliger and Weinberg's article is free online at . I didn't check if it is the same as in the journal, though I noticed some trivial differences. --Zerotalk 14:19, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Begin on terrorism
Menachem Begin, The Revolt, page 100.

'''Our enemies called us terrorists. . . . And yet we were not terrorists.''' The original Latin word “terror” means fear. If I am not mistaken the term “terror” became current in political terminology during the French Revolution. The revolutionaries began cutting off heads with the guillotine in order to instill fear. Thenceforward the word “terror” came to define acts of revolutionaries or counter-revolutionaries, of fighters for freedom and oppressors. It all depends on who uses the term. It frequently happens that it is used by both sides in their mutual exchange of compliments. '''The historical and linguistic origins of the political term “terror” prove it cannot be applied to a revolutionary war of liberation'''. A revolution may give birth to what we call “terror” as happened in France. Terror may sometimes be its herald, as what happened in Russia. But the revolution itself is not terror, and terror is not the revolution. A revolution, or a revolutionary war, does not aim at instilling fear. Its object is to overthrow a regime and to set up a new regime in its place. In a revolutionary war both sides use force. Tyranny is armed. Otherwise it would be liquidated overnight. Fighters for freedom must arm; otherwise they would be crushed overnight. Certainly the use of force also awakens fear. Tyrannous rulers begin to fear for their positions or their lives, or both. And consequently they begin to try to sow fear among those they rule. But the instilling of fear is not an aim in itself. The sole aim on the one side is the overthrow of armed tyranny; on the other it is the perpetuation of that tyranny.

Therefore the much discredited study of perlinger is removed from the LEAD as strict well-poisoning and wrong factual information, and restore to the previous correct version. Amoruso 21:44, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Very funny. A thoroughly sourced study of terrorist acts is disallowed because one of the chief terrorists doesn't like it!  Now I've heard everything.  --Zerotalk 11:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * So you admit it's an opinion of this writer perliger ? Therefore it's irrelevant and removed. It's obviously not the opinion of the people he claims to hold these opinions. At any case, it's of course in violation of wikipedia:lead. Amoruso 12:00, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Let's get this straight. Are you saying that Etzel did not believe at the time that acts like those listed here were "legitimate tools in the Jewish national struggle for the Land of Israel"?  --Zerotalk 15:03, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm saying Begin and leaders before him didn't call it "terrorism" as the reference suggests, and yes, acts in the 30's depicted in the article, weren't directed at all for the "liberation of the land". The acts directed for the liberation of land were the acts directed against the British acts during the 1948 war and its early stage. The acts directed against Arabs were retliatory in nature to scare Arabs and to deter them from attacking Jews showing that there will be responses when such attacks occur. They were violent and against innocents no doubt but that was their motive. This is called in hebrew "peulot tagmul" and were also performed by Israel in the early 1950's for exactly the same purpose against fedayeen. Amoruso 12:10, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Menachem Begin, The Revolt, page 70 (in my 1952 English edition), ch.VI;
 * "Hands up, quick. I´m not a bloody British officer, I´m a terrorist of the Irgun Zvai Leumi." ..according to Begin, this was said by the Irgun "captain" Gideon (=Giddy) when they attacked the British military base Akir. Regards, Huldra 09:23, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Citations please
Please provide inline citations to an English language for all statements in this article. Andjam (talk) 12:30, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The source is given in the article. It is in Hebrew and has been checked by user:Zero0000. Ceedjee (talk) 11:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Category:Jewish terrorism
Please see the discussion about Irgun at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration. --Timeshifter (talk) 16:59, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Irgun views on terrorism
The previous text of the entry implied that the Irgun view terrorism as legitimate. They, however, did not; they asserted that their actions were not terrorism. If you want to say that they viewed as legitimate tools tactics that others have called terrorism, that would be a different story. As for whether or not it was terrorism-- you must prove that they purposefully targeted civilians. You have not, nor have Perliger and Weinberg. -- Unisgned —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.160.254.242 (talk) 00:55, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * If you go to the Irgun article, this issue is addressed with WP:RS. I just added refs from Irgun article to two specific allegations. More info from that article could be added if people think necessary.
 * Also I can see that Prof. Yehuda Lapidot and Bell are sources for the chart and moved there. Moved other books to additional reading until someone who has seen them can move up to chart reference. Removed refs tag. Also note that there were attacks after the 1930s that have to be added and lead and description of chart changed, but project for another day. Carol Moore 14:52, 18 November 2008 (UTC)Carolmooredc


 * I was thinking this page should be updated with attacks of the 1940s, yet just noticed that the name of the article specifies only 1930s. Any reason not to remove "during the 1930s" and update it with other WP:RS attacks?? Just linking to List of massacres committed prior to the 1948 Arab–Israeli war in Mandate Palestine at the end seems insufficient for someone wanting an overview. Carol Moore 00:25, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, unless someone can come up with a good reason to limit the attacks to the 1930s. TPaineTX (talk) 02:49, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * There seems no reason to limit ourselves in this fashion. PRtalk 12:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

A new attack
Needs more specific date but: Jerusalem Post 4-23-09: ''On March 30, 1936, the British inaugurated their Palestine Broadcasting Service (PBS), a radio station that operated out of Ramallah and, three years later, moved to this splendid site. The PBS had been broadcasting from Jerusalem for less than two months when underground IZL forces (Irgun Tzvai Leumi) bombed the building and two of the personnel were killed. The British went back to transmitting from Ramallah and, after the State of Israel was declared, this became the home of Israel Radio.'' CarolMooreDC (talk) 16:42, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

List of deleted attacks
Current List

Previous List

Difference

An editor deleted a huge list of attacks. So we should clear out if the attacks are made up as claimed or real first. Kasaalan (talk) 13:37, 28 April 2009 (UTC)


 * People should hustle up references and add them to existing or deleted ones. I thought there were a couple good references on that? CarolMooreDC (talk) 22:55, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

The massive deletion done by User:Doonizs was completely unjustified. The edit summary says "Made up attacks. Never existed". Below is how the Palestine Post reported one of these "non-existent events". In fact everything in the table came originally from a good source, mostly from a Hebrew source favorable to Etzel, but the individual source of each item was not recorded. Clearly that should be corrected but it is a lot of work. Zerotalk 09:33, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Image:PP26Jul1938.jpg


 * Do them by source, one source a day, and pretty soon they'll be all done. It's been near the bottom of my list for a while too. CarolMooreDC (talk) 00:16, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Deleted Attacks from the Table
I will try finding references. Kasaalan (talk) 12:19, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Why Zionism template removed
Irgun was zionist, why Zionism template removed. Kasaalan (talk) 18:32, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

New: 1947 attacks
Didn't find any current refs but found this source with several new attacks. Any problems with adding? From: Donald Neff, Hamas: A Pale Image of the Jewish Irgun And Lehi Gangs, Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, May/June 2006, pages 14-15
 * Jan. 12—Four killed by Irgun terrorist bombing of British headquarters.
 * July 3—“Anti-terrorist” Jewish families beaten up by Irgunists.
 * Sept. 26—Four British policemen killed in Irgun terrorist bank robbery.
 * Sept. 29—13 killed, 53 wounded in Irgun terrorist attack on British police   station.
 * Dec. 29—14 Arabs killed by Irgun bomb in Jerusalem.
 * Dec. 29—Irgun flogs British major and three sergeants.
 * Dec. 31—Irgun claims to have killed 374 Arabs and British during year. CarolMooreDC (talk) 00:42, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Right, the article is missing lots of 1947-1948 attacks. Some of these are ineligible as we are only including cases resulting in death.  One thing I have found is that death tolls are unreliable; for that I suggest looking in the Palestine Post over the 1-3 days after the attack (not just 1 day after).  A link allowing free access is at the end of Palestine Post. For sources that give the Irgun attribution, Milstein's books are good, also Morris 'Victims' and some others.  WRMEA is too partisan to rely on solely. Zerotalk 05:06, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, there is a list of Etzel operations in Hebrew here: http://www.etzel.org.il/dates/frame.htm. Since the editor of that site (Lapidot) has Irgun-apologist and academic credentials, I suggest it is reliable to the extent that listing of an operation there means the Irgun admits it. However, absence can mean it is too embarrassing to include. Also, operations are described too briefly for us to use that list directly. Zerotalk 05:22, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, i went through http://www.etzel.org.il/ articles and got everything mentioning casualties and entering now. Also occurred to me the easy way to find refs for others is to go to books.google.com, type in the date and city or incident and see what comes up. A particularly good source with relatively easy access is: Terror out of Zion: the fight for Israeli independence by J. Bowyer Bell, Moshe Arens- 1996 CarolMooreDC (talk) 03:27, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Status of refs
Besides the ones I did last night finishing of The Irgun website (and corrections this am) and one or two new ones this am, I could not find other refs down to June 23, 1938. I assume they are in Arie Perliger and Leonard Weinberg (whose web page and I assume book largely call Irgun "Etzel," which should be mentioned in footnote??) and/or Bell and Arens (which one can only search so many times on books.google before they shut you out of searching, dang it.)  If someone has either, both, books, maybe they could look? I did notice lots of people are quoting wikipedia on this, often leaving the note in there.

I did find this ref which I think is ok but others might balk: April 17, 1938 An Arab was killed by a bomb detonated in a cafe in Haifa. Who are the terrorists?: Aspects of Zionist and Israeli terrorism Page 5, by Muʼassasat al-Dirāsāt al-Filas īnīyah, Arab Women's Information Committee (Beirut, Lebanon), Institut des études palestiniennes (Beyrouth) - 1972 - 74 pages whose search summary reads:''March 17, 1937 Four bombs thrown into Arab cafe's in Jaffa; 1 Arab killed, 10 injured.'' CarolMooreDC (talk) 15:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

More needing references

 * Dec 10, 1947 - 6 Arabs killed, 30 wounded, bomb at Jaffa cinema
 * same day       - 7 Arabs killed, several bombs at Damascus Gate
 * Dec 12, 1947 - 4 Arabs killed, many wounded, bomb thrown at Arab bus in Haifa

These are in my notes but I'm far from home. Maybe in Milstein. Zerotalk 08:13, 12 July 2009 (UTC)


 * So then all the items have been restored and only those need references? Thanks. CarolMooreDC (talk) 22:15, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Need: Rome embassy bombing, 1946. Zerotalk 12:36, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Mess up of the table
Why did you messed up the table and removed comments column out of it. It would be useful for adding references there, or more detail. Kasaalan (talk) 09:58, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I fixed it myself. But try discussing before removing columns. Kasaalan (talk) 10:36, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I hardly "messed up" the table by removing a column containing nothing but "-" symbols. I didn't see the harm in removing it, or anything worth discussing, and I'm happy to see that adding it back took little effort once filling it with actual information became necessary.--Doron (talk) 23:56, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It tooks major time to readd columns and no little effort. Kasaalan (talk) 01:03, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your work! CarolMooreDC (talk) 14:30, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The column left for moving references or notes under it in the first place. If you can add a notes column for event details, or wikilink the dates I can seriously thank you too. Kasaalan (talk) 16:14, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Who are the Palestinians in April 9, 1948 ?
Nableezy has reverted my following only change: from "107-120 Arabs killed..." to "107-120 Palestinians killed..." So my question is: what happens just in April 9, 1948 changing the Arabs from February 10, 1948 to the Palestinians? As I know, (as minimum) in 1948 all the Palestinian Arabs, Jews. Druzes, etc. were referred to as 'Palestinians'. - Igorp_lj (talk) 18:33, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Arab is too generic, but a clarification could be useful. Palestinian Arabs could be used.  nableezy  - 22:34, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Moved discussion from article
The following was posted into the article by an anon, I am moving it here:
 * The article itself now contains an obvious internal contradiction. In the summary, it says that 'during 11 years of attacks, 194-207+ Arabs (1 policeman, rest civilian)' were killed by Irgun attacks. Yet simply counting the individual incidents yields a total of 530. Others might interpret some of the entries differently (ethnicity isn't always specified, nor is the total body count) and come up with a slightly different total -- but not '194-207.' Between two and three times that figure.

I agree, it is old. Probably it is OR to prepare such a total ourselves anyway. I'm deleting it. Zerotalk 10:19, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * During my edit time the numbers were accurate sum of the article. I noted they were sum of the article. One way or another without a sum of casualties, list based article is not that useful. We may recalculate the case, do not delete sum. I didn't review the article for a while. Kasaalan (talk) 11:32, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * By the way are you sure about 530 civilians, my sum was accurate and 200, it wasn't even near 500. Did you add 300 civilian casualties. Kasaalan (talk) 12:04, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Lots of incidents have been added. And there are probably more. Zerotalk 12:54, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I completely revised the layout and numbers. Until someone add a correct number, it is hundreds as a general term. Kasaalan (talk) 14:12, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

wrong date
"1938, February 27 	33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem." was it in 1938(it should be put higher) or in 1939 ? it should be changed then — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.130.0.14 (talk) 13:01, 28 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Definitely 1939. Fixed.  Zerotalk 01:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Yehudieh
..is mentioned. WHo or what is it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.130.0.14 (talk) 13:14, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yehudiya Zerotalk 01:23, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi all
Hi, I changed the name of the article from "List of Irgun attacks" to "List of Irgun operations" in order to broaden the scope of the article; instead of just attacks, now more of their operations can be listed (for example, prison breaks with no casualties).

Also, I am currently working on User:Ethanbas/List of Lehi operations; feel free to help out with that! Ethanbas (talk) 16:03, 28 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi Ethanbas. As I wrote on your talk page, I think the new title is an improvement over the old one, particularly from an NPOV perspective. Thank you. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 16:15, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Incomplete, but published: List of Lehi operations Ethanbas (talk) 02:30, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 19:04, 25 December 2017 (UTC) (The last one had 70 casualties, not 70 deaths.) Perliger and Weinberg's sources for this section are informative: one is volume 2 of the 6-volume "official history" by former Irgun member David Niv: "Battle for Freedom: The Irgun Zvai Leumi" (Tel Aviv: Klausner Institute, 1966). The other two are published by organizations associated with the Irgun: Joseph Kister, "The National Military Organization, 1931–1948" (Tel Aviv: Etzel Museum, 1998) and Yitzhak Alfasi, "The National Military Organization Sources and Documents" (Tel  Aviv: Jabotinski Institute, 1992). In other words, their information comes directly or indirectly from Irgun sources, and it is simply not true that the Irgun denies these attacks. --Zerotalk 12:22, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I found that a version of Perliger and Weinberg's article is free online at . I didn't check if it is the same as in the journal, though I noticed some trivial differences. --Zerotalk 14:19, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Begin on terrorism
Menachem Begin, The Revolt, page 100.

'''Our enemies called us terrorists. . . . And yet we were not terrorists.''' The original Latin word “terror” means fear. If I am not mistaken the term “terror” became current in political terminology during the French Revolution. The revolutionaries began cutting off heads with the guillotine in order to instill fear. Thenceforward the word “terror” came to define acts of revolutionaries or counter-revolutionaries, of fighters for freedom and oppressors. It all depends on who uses the term. It frequently happens that it is used by both sides in their mutual exchange of compliments. '''The historical and linguistic origins of the political term “terror” prove it cannot be applied to a revolutionary war of liberation'''. A revolution may give birth to what we call “terror” as happened in France. Terror may sometimes be its herald, as what happened in Russia. But the revolution itself is not terror, and terror is not the revolution. A revolution, or a revolutionary war, does not aim at instilling fear. Its object is to overthrow a regime and to set up a new regime in its place. In a revolutionary war both sides use force. Tyranny is armed. Otherwise it would be liquidated overnight. Fighters for freedom must arm; otherwise they would be crushed overnight. Certainly the use of force also awakens fear. Tyrannous rulers begin to fear for their positions or their lives, or both. And consequently they begin to try to sow fear among those they rule. But the instilling of fear is not an aim in itself. The sole aim on the one side is the overthrow of armed tyranny; on the other it is the perpetuation of that tyranny.

Therefore the much discredited study of perlinger is removed from the LEAD as strict well-poisoning and wrong factual information, and restore to the previous correct version. Amoruso 21:44, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Very funny. A thoroughly sourced study of terrorist acts is disallowed because one of the chief terrorists doesn't like it!  Now I've heard everything.  --Zerotalk 11:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * So you admit it's an opinion of this writer perliger ? Therefore it's irrelevant and removed. It's obviously not the opinion of the people he claims to hold these opinions. At any case, it's of course in violation of wikipedia:lead. Amoruso 12:00, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Let's get this straight. Are you saying that Etzel did not believe at the time that acts like those listed here were "legitimate tools in the Jewish national struggle for the Land of Israel"?  --Zerotalk 15:03, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm saying Begin and leaders before him didn't call it "terrorism" as the reference suggests, and yes, acts in the 30's depicted in the article, weren't directed at all for the "liberation of the land". The acts directed for the liberation of land were the acts directed against the British acts during the 1948 war and its early stage. The acts directed against Arabs were retliatory in nature to scare Arabs and to deter them from attacking Jews showing that there will be responses when such attacks occur. They were violent and against innocents no doubt but that was their motive. This is called in hebrew "peulot tagmul" and were also performed by Israel in the early 1950's for exactly the same purpose against fedayeen. Amoruso 12:10, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Menachem Begin, The Revolt, page 70 (in my 1952 English edition), ch.VI;
 * "Hands up, quick. I´m not a bloody British officer, I´m a terrorist of the Irgun Zvai Leumi." ..according to Begin, this was said by the Irgun "captain" Gideon (=Giddy) when they attacked the British military base Akir. Regards, Huldra 09:23, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Citations please
Please provide inline citations to an English language for all statements in this article. Andjam (talk) 12:30, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The source is given in the article. It is in Hebrew and has been checked by user:Zero0000. Ceedjee (talk) 11:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Category:Jewish terrorism
Please see the discussion about Irgun at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration. --Timeshifter (talk) 16:59, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Irgun views on terrorism
The previous text of the entry implied that the Irgun view terrorism as legitimate. They, however, did not; they asserted that their actions were not terrorism. If you want to say that they viewed as legitimate tools tactics that others have called terrorism, that would be a different story. As for whether or not it was terrorism-- you must prove that they purposefully targeted civilians. You have not, nor have Perliger and Weinberg. -- Unisgned —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.160.254.242 (talk) 00:55, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * If you go to the Irgun article, this issue is addressed with WP:RS. I just added refs from Irgun article to two specific allegations. More info from that article could be added if people think necessary.
 * Also I can see that Prof. Yehuda Lapidot and Bell are sources for the chart and moved there. Moved other books to additional reading until someone who has seen them can move up to chart reference. Removed refs tag. Also note that there were attacks after the 1930s that have to be added and lead and description of chart changed, but project for another day. Carol Moore 14:52, 18 November 2008 (UTC)Carolmooredc


 * I was thinking this page should be updated with attacks of the 1940s, yet just noticed that the name of the article specifies only 1930s. Any reason not to remove "during the 1930s" and update it with other WP:RS attacks?? Just linking to List of massacres committed prior to the 1948 Arab–Israeli war in Mandate Palestine at the end seems insufficient for someone wanting an overview. Carol Moore 00:25, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, unless someone can come up with a good reason to limit the attacks to the 1930s. TPaineTX (talk) 02:49, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * There seems no reason to limit ourselves in this fashion. PRtalk 12:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

A new attack
Needs more specific date but: Jerusalem Post 4-23-09: ''On March 30, 1936, the British inaugurated their Palestine Broadcasting Service (PBS), a radio station that operated out of Ramallah and, three years later, moved to this splendid site. The PBS had been broadcasting from Jerusalem for less than two months when underground IZL forces (Irgun Tzvai Leumi) bombed the building and two of the personnel were killed. The British went back to transmitting from Ramallah and, after the State of Israel was declared, this became the home of Israel Radio.'' CarolMooreDC (talk) 16:42, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

List of deleted attacks
Current List

Previous List

Difference

An editor deleted a huge list of attacks. So we should clear out if the attacks are made up as claimed or real first. Kasaalan (talk) 13:37, 28 April 2009 (UTC)


 * People should hustle up references and add them to existing or deleted ones. I thought there were a couple good references on that? CarolMooreDC (talk) 22:55, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

The massive deletion done by User:Doonizs was completely unjustified. The edit summary says "Made up attacks. Never existed". Below is how the Palestine Post reported one of these "non-existent events". In fact everything in the table came originally from a good source, mostly from a Hebrew source favorable to Etzel, but the individual source of each item was not recorded. Clearly that should be corrected but it is a lot of work. Zerotalk 09:33, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Image:PP26Jul1938.jpg


 * Do them by source, one source a day, and pretty soon they'll be all done. It's been near the bottom of my list for a while too. CarolMooreDC (talk) 00:16, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Deleted Attacks from the Table
I will try finding references. Kasaalan (talk) 12:19, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Why Zionism template removed
Irgun was zionist, why Zionism template removed. Kasaalan (talk) 18:32, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

New: 1947 attacks
Didn't find any current refs but found this source with several new attacks. Any problems with adding? From: Donald Neff, Hamas: A Pale Image of the Jewish Irgun And Lehi Gangs, Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, May/June 2006, pages 14-15
 * Jan. 12—Four killed by Irgun terrorist bombing of British headquarters.
 * July 3—“Anti-terrorist” Jewish families beaten up by Irgunists.
 * Sept. 26—Four British policemen killed in Irgun terrorist bank robbery.
 * Sept. 29—13 killed, 53 wounded in Irgun terrorist attack on British police   station.
 * Dec. 29—14 Arabs killed by Irgun bomb in Jerusalem.
 * Dec. 29—Irgun flogs British major and three sergeants.
 * Dec. 31—Irgun claims to have killed 374 Arabs and British during year. CarolMooreDC (talk) 00:42, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Right, the article is missing lots of 1947-1948 attacks. Some of these are ineligible as we are only including cases resulting in death.  One thing I have found is that death tolls are unreliable; for that I suggest looking in the Palestine Post over the 1-3 days after the attack (not just 1 day after).  A link allowing free access is at the end of Palestine Post. For sources that give the Irgun attribution, Milstein's books are good, also Morris 'Victims' and some others.  WRMEA is too partisan to rely on solely. Zerotalk 05:06, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, there is a list of Etzel operations in Hebrew here: http://www.etzel.org.il/dates/frame.htm. Since the editor of that site (Lapidot) has Irgun-apologist and academic credentials, I suggest it is reliable to the extent that listing of an operation there means the Irgun admits it. However, absence can mean it is too embarrassing to include. Also, operations are described too briefly for us to use that list directly. Zerotalk 05:22, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, i went through http://www.etzel.org.il/ articles and got everything mentioning casualties and entering now. Also occurred to me the easy way to find refs for others is to go to books.google.com, type in the date and city or incident and see what comes up. A particularly good source with relatively easy access is: Terror out of Zion: the fight for Israeli independence by J. Bowyer Bell, Moshe Arens- 1996 CarolMooreDC (talk) 03:27, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Status of refs
Besides the ones I did last night finishing of The Irgun website (and corrections this am) and one or two new ones this am, I could not find other refs down to June 23, 1938. I assume they are in Arie Perliger and Leonard Weinberg (whose web page and I assume book largely call Irgun "Etzel," which should be mentioned in footnote??) and/or Bell and Arens (which one can only search so many times on books.google before they shut you out of searching, dang it.)  If someone has either, both, books, maybe they could look? I did notice lots of people are quoting wikipedia on this, often leaving the note in there.

I did find this ref which I think is ok but others might balk: April 17, 1938 An Arab was killed by a bomb detonated in a cafe in Haifa. Who are the terrorists?: Aspects of Zionist and Israeli terrorism Page 5, by Muʼassasat al-Dirāsāt al-Filas īnīyah, Arab Women's Information Committee (Beirut, Lebanon), Institut des études palestiniennes (Beyrouth) - 1972 - 74 pages whose search summary reads:''March 17, 1937 Four bombs thrown into Arab cafe's in Jaffa; 1 Arab killed, 10 injured.'' CarolMooreDC (talk) 15:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

More needing references

 * Dec 10, 1947 - 6 Arabs killed, 30 wounded, bomb at Jaffa cinema
 * same day       - 7 Arabs killed, several bombs at Damascus Gate
 * Dec 12, 1947 - 4 Arabs killed, many wounded, bomb thrown at Arab bus in Haifa

These are in my notes but I'm far from home. Maybe in Milstein. Zerotalk 08:13, 12 July 2009 (UTC)


 * So then all the items have been restored and only those need references? Thanks. CarolMooreDC (talk) 22:15, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Need: Rome embassy bombing, 1946. Zerotalk 12:36, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Mess up of the table
Why did you messed up the table and removed comments column out of it. It would be useful for adding references there, or more detail. Kasaalan (talk) 09:58, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I fixed it myself. But try discussing before removing columns. Kasaalan (talk) 10:36, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I hardly "messed up" the table by removing a column containing nothing but "-" symbols. I didn't see the harm in removing it, or anything worth discussing, and I'm happy to see that adding it back took little effort once filling it with actual information became necessary.--Doron (talk) 23:56, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It tooks major time to readd columns and no little effort. Kasaalan (talk) 01:03, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your work! CarolMooreDC (talk) 14:30, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The column left for moving references or notes under it in the first place. If you can add a notes column for event details, or wikilink the dates I can seriously thank you too. Kasaalan (talk) 16:14, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Who are the Palestinians in April 9, 1948 ?
Nableezy has reverted my following only change: from "107-120 Arabs killed..." to "107-120 Palestinians killed..." So my question is: what happens just in April 9, 1948 changing the Arabs from February 10, 1948 to the Palestinians? As I know, (as minimum) in 1948 all the Palestinian Arabs, Jews. Druzes, etc. were referred to as 'Palestinians'. - Igorp_lj (talk) 18:33, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Arab is too generic, but a clarification could be useful. Palestinian Arabs could be used.  nableezy  - 22:34, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Moved discussion from article
The following was posted into the article by an anon, I am moving it here:
 * The article itself now contains an obvious internal contradiction. In the summary, it says that 'during 11 years of attacks, 194-207+ Arabs (1 policeman, rest civilian)' were killed by Irgun attacks. Yet simply counting the individual incidents yields a total of 530. Others might interpret some of the entries differently (ethnicity isn't always specified, nor is the total body count) and come up with a slightly different total -- but not '194-207.' Between two and three times that figure.

I agree, it is old. Probably it is OR to prepare such a total ourselves anyway. I'm deleting it. Zerotalk 10:19, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * During my edit time the numbers were accurate sum of the article. I noted they were sum of the article. One way or another without a sum of casualties, list based article is not that useful. We may recalculate the case, do not delete sum. I didn't review the article for a while. Kasaalan (talk) 11:32, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * By the way are you sure about 530 civilians, my sum was accurate and 200, it wasn't even near 500. Did you add 300 civilian casualties. Kasaalan (talk) 12:04, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Lots of incidents have been added. And there are probably more. Zerotalk 12:54, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I completely revised the layout and numbers. Until someone add a correct number, it is hundreds as a general term. Kasaalan (talk) 14:12, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

wrong date
"1938, February 27 	33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem." was it in 1938(it should be put higher) or in 1939 ? it should be changed then — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.130.0.14 (talk) 13:01, 28 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Definitely 1939. Fixed.  Zerotalk 01:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Yehudieh
..is mentioned. WHo or what is it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.130.0.14 (talk) 13:14, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yehudiya Zerotalk 01:23, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi all
Hi, I changed the name of the article from "List of Irgun attacks" to "List of Irgun operations" in order to broaden the scope of the article; instead of just attacks, now more of their operations can be listed (for example, prison breaks with no casualties).

Also, I am currently working on User:Ethanbas/List of Lehi operations; feel free to help out with that! Ethanbas (talk) 16:03, 28 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi Ethanbas. As I wrote on your talk page, I think the new title is an improvement over the old one, particularly from an NPOV perspective. Thank you. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 16:15, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Incomplete, but published: List of Lehi operations Ethanbas (talk) 02:30, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 19:04, 25 December 2017 (UTC)