Talk:List of breweries in England

Spam Links
Hi--

I notice that a great number of the breweries have no reference establishing notability, and that one column of the list consists entirely of spamlinks. Has any thought been given to culling through all this? Prof. Mc (talk) 14:08, 18 February 2016 (UTC)


 * What do you mean by spamlinks? The brewery's web site link? That is not spam, it is a means by which a Wikipedia user can find out more about a particular brewery and its beers.
 * What do you define as a notable list..... I take a list of major items to be notable, as there is no point in saying you have a list when it comprises only 1-2% of items that would make a complete list if for instance you trimmed this down to only include breweries that had a wikipedia page.
 * or a notable brewery.... I took the view that for England a brewery had to be substantial enough to have a web site, many smaller ones only have a facebook page for instance.
 * There are 170,000 CAMRA members, they no doubt consider every real ale brewery is notable.
 * The dramatic growth in the number of breweries is itself notable.
 * The vast majority of the breweries have citations.
 * The Yorkshire County section of the page existed before I expanded the article, there are no references in it and some of the breweries are in the main article. I did not create the Yorkshire section and have no idea if it is up to date or ancient, and whether it is used by anyone. I hid the data in October last year as I did not think it important to the article. It should probably be removed.
 * Many breweries do not create Wikipedia pages, why, I don't know, many are new, but maybe it is because they do not think it relevant to them. I would hope that including a brewery in the list might encourage more to create a Wikipedia page.
 * Wikipedia is supposed to be informative and useful to the user, a list that does not include most breweries is not a list it is simply a note on the subject and therefore useless to most users. I would hope that this, as it stands, is a useful article. Ânes-pur-sàng - À la perchoine 15:47, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi! Thanks for answering. Generally a reference to a business' website is a spamlink, as defined by WP:LINKSPAM and point #5 at WP:ELNO. A guide to what makes a brewery "notable" is at WP:ListBrew, but in general it follows the Wiki definition of notability at WP:ORGIN. I love CAMRA and have been a member for many years. But what they consider notable isn't relevant to Wikipedia. Generally an external reference verifying the brewry's existence is considered sufficient notability. A brewery's own webpage is not considered evidence of notability. Yes, the vast majority have citations. Many do not. That's why I was asking if "any thought been given to culling through all this." And, that's why I didn't just barge in and do it. Prof. Mc (talk) 16:02, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
 * So I just need to find more citations ? Ânes-pur-sàng - À la perchoine 11:42, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes. I'll look around as well, but generally any news article showing that the brewery exists is OK. Prof. Mc (talk) 17:28, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm totally fed up with this concept of notability which seems in practice to mean hiding information and favouring big (American) companies. I totally agree that the resurgence of smaller breweries is a really important trend in terms of the industry and the drinking public's change in tastes. We need a sensible rule about notability - a small-scale brewing operation that feeds one pub isn't notable unless maybe it has a large bottle trade. But in order for this to be done fairly and consistently, and to be useful, there needs to be clear rules. How about this? 1. Has a webpage 2. Has at least x2 mentions in local press 3a. has a turnover of £1 million+. 3b. has been noted in some way as significant (eg by winning CAMRA awards or being in a history book). If it hasn't got 3a it must have a solid 3b AND it will be open to more discussion. All the current notability criteria do is favour big business, which is the opposite of the trend towards microbusinesses, microbreweries etc. It's saying that if you have a PR department you're automatically more notable that someone producing extremely good product that is highly significant locally whose reputation is by word of mouth. We have to push back against this but we also have to be sensible and not just end up having pages for home brewers. Please comment on the criteria above so we can refine. Maybe you can think of better criteria?SandrinaHatman (talk) 10:14, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Website links
Hi I've just been looking through this list as I have an interest in the breweries of Northamptonshire and especially the Corby area. I suggest that the entry for "Rockingham Brewing" needs revision - the website link used in this list takes you to "Rockingham Brewing" in Derry, New Hampshire, USA. Google has another website address (www.rockinghamales.co.uk) which I note is also used by "the Real Ale Guide to pubs and breweries throughout the UK" but this takes you to a page of text about swimming pool safety enclosures. Also, according to the 2016 CAMRA Good Beer Guide, the brewery simply uses the name "Rockingham" and its brewery is in Blatherwycke, a village near Corby. The Society of Independent Brewers shows their name as "Rockingham Ales" with a registered address in Elton, near Peterborough (which used to be in Northamptonshire but now Cambridgeshire). Haynesta (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:38, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

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Foundation date column
I reckon dates of foundation would be a very useful addition to this table. Anybody disagree? MarkovianStumble (talk) 16:20, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes I think useful.SandrinaHatman (talk) 10:21, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Help please
I set about writing some profiles of brewers in Nottighamshire jsut for someone to come along and delete them completely. They were written in a neutral language. They had external citations. I'm really fed up that this keeps happening to me. People cannot keep deleting pages simply because they are about a company as being "promotional" - it is vandalism and this is why editors leave. What this has taught me is that there is no point in writing about brewing history on wikipedia or about brewers because some turnip can just vandalise your work in 10 seconds.SandrinaHatman (talk) 16:17, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Ambiguous nature of list
As the wikipedia page brewery indicates, this term has two distinct but related meanings: Each meaning implies the other: Sometimes a business moves premises. Sometimes a brewery changes hands. Businesses are founded and sometimes go out of business or are absorbed by another. Premises are built and sometimes demolished or repurposed. I feel that the list could be restructured or split, but I am not sure how best this can be done.
 * 1) Brewing company: a business that makes and sells beer.
 * 2) Brewing premises: the place at which beer is commercially made
 * I would welcome other editors thoughts.Leutha (talk) 11:01, 10 March 2024 (UTC)