Talk:List of the Smashing Pumpkins band members

4th section for members
I still think there should be a distinction between 2 groups of people in the "live members" section. For some people, such as Matt Walker or Dennis Flemion, this seems accurate. However, I still don't think "Gabrial McNair – trombone" or "Stephen Bradley – trumpet (2008)" belong on there. I'm sure they played with the Smashing Pumpkins, but I don't think they were any sort of "member". It's not like their music was every predominantly featured in concerts, they were only featured in select songs. To list these back-up horn players as "members" almost makes The Smashing Pumpkins look like a ska group or something.

I feel like there should be another group for them, such as "Supporting Musicians" or something. Sergecross73  msg me   19:06, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Touring Musicians Contributions
Should there be any mentionings of the contributions that any of the touring members have made to the studio albums, or will that just further confuse the line between "touring" and "actual" members? Just curious, because I know there are some out there, like Mike Garson's Piano in Machina 1/2, or Matt Walker's drumming on TEITBITE. Just throwing it out there, I can see how it could be either a good or bad idea... Sergecross73  msg me   13:21, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure That makes sense to me. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:53, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Mike Garson and Chris Holmes played with the band in 2000. Kerry Brown has filled in for Jimmy. There were also 2 auxillary percussionists on the 1998 tour.Gregoriop (talk) 00:10, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Reduce the listing to two sections
Aside from current-vs.-former, the other distinctions are Wikipedia contrivances. A contrived distinction is not necessarily a bad thing, and just because there is a gray does not mean there is a black and a white.

But I don't see the purpose of drawing a distinction between 'former' and 'former touring', or between 'former touring' and 'former temporary touring'. Why do we bother drawing these distinctions--so that we can argue over them? What would be the problem with just having a big 'former' category? Jjb (talk) 00:54, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Timeline
Is the timeline right? I'm little confused as it has several band members listed as working or worked on studio albums but above in the article is says different. On other articles from Wiki it says they didn't as well unless I'm reading the time graph wrong.67.169.198.227 (talk) 08:20, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Melissa Auf der Maur member status
Touring member Auf der Maur (who substituted Wretkzy during Machina tour; as several musicians substituted Chamberlin on tour) is unsourced as an official member of the Pumpkins. Lapadite (talk) 04:17, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Not sure if she is stated as an official member, but rather just a former touring musician who "provided few, if any, studio contributions". A source was easily found for this, among many, so consider that much verifiable &mdash; MusikAnimal  talk  04:42, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
 * There were plenty of sources at the band article's talk page archives, but I think it's a bit hard to tell just because way back then, it was the band's first real lineup change. No one was really concerned about the officiality of membership back then, because it had been a non-issue up until that point. I've been maintaining the article with her as a member because there are so many "Auf der Maur replaced Wretzky sources", and this article lead me to believe that was the last consensus on it, but either way, the fanbase is constantly doing drive by changing of membership either way. Sergecross73   msg me  16:03, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I seem to remember BC making a comment at the time along the lines of Melissa being an "official, card-carrying member of the band". The only thing I can find to validate that is this press release from 2000, but it depends on how you read "joins the band" there.  Lankiveil (speak to me) 11:14, 10 October 2015 (UTC).
 * All touring members "join the band". Corgan himself said the original members planned on a final album and final tour before Wretzky left the band. Auf def Maur was only a touring substitute for Wretzky during this one-year period. If she had played on the studio album or been asked to join the band after the reunion then she would be considered an official member, but that's not the case. If Auf der Mar was an official member of The Smashing Pumpkins for substituting Wretzy on tour then all of Chamberlin's substitutes would also be official members. Lapadite (talk) 20:48, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 22:10, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Change section headers
This page is a bit of an outlier in the membership articles. Specifically in the header of the section for instance:

Current members
Since 2023, the official lineup of the Smashing Pumpkins includes one vocalist/guitarist/bassist/keyboardist, one guitarist/bassist, and one drummer.

Current members of The Smashing Pumpkins

I think this should be removed as all this information can be inferred from the content of the section Mewhen123 (talk) 13:09, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * It should not be removed, per MOS:DTAB and MOS:TABLECAPTION. Please do not remove table captions. ―Justin ( koa v f ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:04, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Interesting guideline, that seems to be more directed when a section has many tables, it doesn't seem to be enforced in any other membership article and I think it makes these articles needlessly repetitive. Mewhen123 (talk) 17:13, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * It is for literally all data tables on Wikipedia and yes, it is extremely common for others to not include basic accessibility features. I would venture that 1% of images here have alt text, but the solution is to add it to the images that lack it, not remove it from the ones that do. ―Justin ( koa v f ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:23, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Alt text on images is a different discussion Mewhen123 (talk) 18:13, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * How is it different? They are both basic accessibility requirements. ―Justin ( koa v f ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * One is describing an image and is describing a set of words, they're obviously different mediums Mewhen123 (talk) 18:17, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Of course they are different: any time you compare two things, they will be different somehow. The common denominator is that they are both required accessibility features. This was the point I was making, which evidently did not get communicated. I'm explaining how the Web is largely not accessible and needs to be moreso. ―Justin ( koa v f ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:23, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I understand the point of alt text, I don't see it as comparable to the table. I got that you were making a comparison but I don't see them as equal things Mewhen123 (talk) 20:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * They are equal to the extent that they are both required accessibility features and they assist (among others) the bling in using this resource. ―Justin ( koa v f ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:13, 27 April 2024 (UTC)