Talk:Mali caste

Untitled
This is a stub for now. This is major ethnic group of India. Notability guideline is satisfied via the references provided in the separate section of the article.

Merge proposal
The article Mali (caste) seems to be about the same topic. It has some additional content and although it's unreferenced, it might be worth merging here. Uanfala (talk) 09:25, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * No. I am redirecting. We don't merge unsourced caste content. - Sitush (talk) 14:39, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Problematic edit
This edit misrepresents the source and has been twice reverted now. The source mentions the status in one village rather than the entire state, and it is worth bearing in mind that even the OBC lists do not always cover an entire state. - Sitush (talk) 11:56, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:06, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 1937 Jodhpur State Order- Renaming of Mali Caste as Saini.JPG

Mali caste is different caste than saini
mali caste is different caste than saini caste Mali caste, in southern districts of Haryana and beyond in the states of UP, MP, and Rajasthan, also started using the surname "Saini" in 20th century since 1930-40. However, this is not the same community as Tomar-Yaduvanshi descent Sainis of Punjab who according to renowned and peer-reviewed ethno-historians  like SS Gahlot et al  have maintained their Rajput character .This is testified by the fact that census of 1881  does not acknowledge of the existence of Saini community outside Punjab and, despite the insinuations of colonial writers like Ibbetson, records Sainis and Malis as separate communities. Sainis by Fiat: Enter the "Sainik Kshatriyas" The Marwar State Census Report of 1891 A.D. also did not contain reference to any community called 'Saini' in Rajputana and recorded only two groups as Malis, namely, Mahoor Malis and Rajput Malis, among which the latter are also included in Rajput sub-category. Rajput Malis changed their identity to Saini in 1930 but in the later censuses other non-Rajput Malis such as Mahur or Maur, who ostensibly had no lineal link with Rajputs, also adopted 'Saini' as their last name. The way they sought to piggyback their way into the Saini identity was by seeking to project it as an abbreviated form of "Sainik" or  "soldier" rather than linking it with properly historically grounded term "Shoorsaini",  a link  which would have been impossible to prove. In this reference a review of the following order issued by Jodhpur state in 1937 is quite instructive: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Punjabier (talk • contribs) 15:38, 21 September 2019 (UTC)


 * We're not interested in what sources from the Raj era say, whether they support modern statements or otherwise. - Sitush (talk) 08:44, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Please add in the article
Mali subcaste Mali Sub castes- Phulmali, Phule, Halade, Kacha, Kadu, Bawane Adhprabhu, Adhsheti, Jire,Unde, Lingayat Mali, etc), Bagwan (Muslim), Bharat Bagwan, Marar, Maral, Kosare, Gase Wanmali, Savatamali, Pachkalasi,Waadwal, Chowkalashi, Raen (Bagwan), Pachkalsi similar sub castes- Somvanshiya Pathare Kshatriya *, Pathare Kshatriya Pachkalsi * Pathare Kshatriya *, Sutar *, Sartikar *, Ghode  Give happiness to all (talk) 11:32, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Lot of sockpuppetry
,, , , ....oh god! all these were sockpuppet of same users who made major contribution often not helpful. So reverted it.I will ask competent users in the area to improve it.Heba Aisha (talk) 04:53, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 June 2023
Religion and demographic details are to be added. Sanket87 (talk) 22:15, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. - FlightTime  ( open channel ) 22:17, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Admantine123 man why won't you stop making up your own References
@c.fred you just deleted a whole Paragraph which included its Source. In this Mali Caste Page. Why did you do that? C.Fred Look into it. SikkaSingh (talk) 12:03, 18 October 2023 (UTC)


 * @SikkaSingh The source included an explanatory note that the source is now considered unreliable. Is it really worth including material from a now-discredited source? —C.Fred (talk) 12:42, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * And you believe it? What makes the Source Discredited. Don't you see he deleted that paragh to prove his Point in the Shoorsaini/Saini vs Mali Saini Argument. SikkaSingh (talk) 14:05, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Since you commented earlier on Raj-era sources, do you want to add something here? —C.Fred (talk) 16:36, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @C.Fred We should not use Raj era (and earlier) sources directly due to issues of reliability, including their frequent basis in the discredited theories of scientific racism, their tendency to rely on poor "native" accounts/hearsay, and their purpose being to bolster administrative control rather than engage in anything we would today consider academic in rigour etc. Lots of other reasons - WP:RAJ covers some of it, so do WP:HISTRS and Census of India prior to independence.
 * That said, if a modern academic source cites an older source then we have to assume that the modern writer has evaluated the older source for the point in question - the writer is the expert, not us. So, we can cite the modern opinion etc of the older source in whatever context is appropriate. - Sitush (talk) 16:56, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Sitush Or in this case, if a 1992 text cites the census data, can we use the 1992 source without the disclaimer about Raj sources? Or should we still have that explanatory note? —C.Fred (talk) 16:59, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I took some time to go through this website few days ago . Most of the things coming to this page by some WP:SPA are from this website. There is a pattern of edit by such accounts to proove their beliefs to be the real history through Wikipedia. This guy is adamant on prooving that Sainis were Yaduvanshis, a claim this community makes. Admantine123 (talk) 17:10, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Admantine123 'Twas ever thus. - Sitush (talk) 17:17, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Man are you Joking. False Claims??
 * Is there no respect for Sources now?
 * Look into His Sources. SikkaSingh (talk) 20:08, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @C.Fred That's an awkward one. Usually, you'll find that modern academics do include provisos regarding census data etc somewhere in their writing. It's one reason why people shouldn't cherry-pick from the sources, nor search with terms which might result in confirmation bias. I think we're probably justified in at least linking to that article on the census to provide some context. Sitush (talk) 17:17, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Mali adopted surname Saini during 1930s and in XYZ census they were mentioned at different place. This particular sentence is pasted from Quora to Commons. Someone uploaded a screenshot of this line from Raj era census on commons and it was used to push the narratives built by such caste websites here on Wikipedia. Admantine123 (talk) 17:29, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * No that is Wrong. You are making false Claims. You show me Credible Proof that Both Communities are same and I will Believe you. You deny all of my Sources show me Yours. SikkaSingh (talk) 20:05, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @SikkaSingh This "are Malis Saini" argument has been going on here for as long as I have been involved with caste articles. You'll find it 15 years ago, with tens of people and their sockpuppets being blocked. We can only say what reliable sources say, whether that is "truth" or not - please take some time to understand the explanation at WP:VNT. - Sitush (talk) 20:30, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Well 15 years ago they were not Sockpuppets and Also today I am Not a Sockpuppet. You Refuse to see the Proof. If you say they are Same Show me Credible Proof and I will believe you. SikkaSingh (talk) 06:39, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * There is an easy way to see the proof. Just click on the numbers which are written as subscripts to the sentences on pages you are reading on Wikipedia. It will direct you to another web page. There, you may read yourself. Admantine123 (talk) 08:26, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I have seen all of them.And it's Clearly Visible you are taking advantage of the Fact that Both Caste have the Same Surname.Those article are Clearly written about Mali Saini Community.Both Castes have Different Community Leaders, Both Recognise there Differences,Both Communities Know there Origins, Both Accept the Fact that they are Different. They don't Claim Otherwise.So what Is the Problem? SikkaSingh (talk) 10:50, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 December 2023
103.162.75.137 (talk) 06:17, 6 December 2023 (UTC) MALI CASTE IN 12 TYPES AND ITS NAME MISSING
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 06:30, 6 December 2023 (UTC)