Talk:Martine Rothblatt

Biography assessment rating comment
WikiProject Biography Assessment

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 14:25, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Gender?
Is she/he a transexual? Jedpressgrove 00:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes. Why do you ask? --Loremaster 01:10, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Seems important? Jedpressgrove 23:20, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes and No. Should biographical articles always explicitly mention the gender and sexual orientation of the subject? --Loremaster 00:58, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes. This article never refers to her as a he or she. That is pretty misleading. I'm assuming she is a male to female and prefers to be referred to as she. To have a whole article referring to a person as "they" and ignoring the fact that they are transexual seems ridiculous. It's a little different (maybe even less important), but on the pages of all gay celebrities it is mentioned that they are gay. Jedpressgrove 19:21, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The article is not intentionally misleading. It's simply short. The article never refers to Martine Rothblatt as "they". It simply refers to her as "Rothblatt". If you look carefully, Rothblatt is in fact refered to as a "she" in the second sentence of the Communications satellite section of the article. Personally, I think the only reason why Rothblatt's transgender should be mentioned in this article is because she wrote a book on the subject of transgenderism, in which she critical of society's need to label people's gender and sexual orientation. --Loremaster 22:44, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Jedpressgrove, I see that you've gone ahead and mentioned her transgendered status in the article. I have no problem with this. --Loremaster 20:50, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate that you have no problem with this. Please inform everyone if you have no problems in the future.126.237.97.63 (talk) 20:47, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Transgender
I've removed this until it can be sourced and placed in the article in context - why is it important to their life story. -- Banj e b oi   23:36, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think we will have a problem finding a source for that claim. However, one argument for mentioning that Rothblatt is transgender is that the transgendered are still a marginalized community and as the arguably most accomplished transgender in human history she is viewed by some as contributing to LGBT pride. --Loremaster (talk) 23:25, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I have absolutely no issue with including it but it needs to be sourced and it should be used in context. Find a source that spells it out or at least confirms they are transgender and then re-include it. -- Banj e  b oi   16:32, 26 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Done! --Loremaster (talk) 01:13, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I've reworded a sentence in the Personal Life section. A person does not undergo sex reassignment surgery (SRS) to become transgendered, rather one has SRS because they ARE transgendered. AtxApril (talk) 18:03, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Former Name
Given that Rothblatt seems to have been notable for her work in satellites before transitioning and changing her name, it would seem appropriate to include her birth name at the beginning of the article, as per Wikipedia's style guidelines here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Biography#Gender_identity

Does anyone object to this? 147.188.141.158 (talk) 17:39, 7 January 2023 (UTC)


 * She would have to be substantially notable under that name. The fact that her deadname appears on, say, academic papers and company filings would not be enough. If there is substantial coverage in reliable sources of her pre-transition activities using her old name then maybe there is a case for it. It is important to bear in mind what we are trying to achieve here. It is not about completeness. If she was notable enough under her old name that readers are likely to look her up under that name then we want them to find the correct article. If we are using older references that use her old name then we might need to help readers understand that these are about the same person. Nonetheless, we should set the bar quite high for this and I'm not convinced that it is met in this case. DanielRigal (talk) 18:16, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Howard Stern Show as a section?
I didn't understand why there was a section about Howard Stern. The fact that Martine was mentioned on Howard Stern could maybe be construed to be relevant, but editorial comments about Howard Stern's behavior don't belong in an article about Martine Rothblatt.198.118.127.182 18:29, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I removed it for the following reasons: 1) No citations. 2) Tenuous relevance to the biography 3) Use of perjorative language referring to Martine's transgender status as "gender confusion." --Gentle gamer 21:07, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It was restored but the name of the section was changed and the content edited. --Loremaster (talk) 01:12, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Polymath
This person should be listed as a polymath for her achievements in many fields. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.73.8.235 (talk) 07:03, 27 November 2007 (UTC)


 * It's something we can work in when we expand the Early life section. --Loremaster (talk) 01:10, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Philanthropy
She has no involvement in the Order except for agreeing to be a founding member. This seems to be an immaterial and tangential part of the bio. Also, the reference given for Terasem being fringe science doesn't say that at all, but instead suggests there is a marketing angle to Terasem for a commercial product. In fact, there are no commercial products from Terasem.


 * A Wikipedia article must strive to be comprehensive in the sense that it neglects no major facts or details and places the subject in context. Being the founding member of an organization (rather than a simple member) is worth mentioning in a biographical article but since the Cosmic Order of Engineers is not notable I will let it go. You are also correct that the reference given for Terasem being fringe science was not good. I'll re-add a criticism when I find the right source. By the way, you might want to read the Biographies of living persons/Help page. It provides information for people who have complaints or concerns about a biographical article on themselves. In conclusion, please remember to sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~ ). --Loremaster (talk) 18:25, 20 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I've created a Reception section to better present criticism of Rothblatt's work, which is a perfectly normal thing to do in a biographical article for Wikipedia. --Loremaster (talk) 21:42, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Highest paid "female" CEO?
Lol, Wikipedia. No wonder women don't want to contribute to your "project." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.188.123.53 (talk) 02:58, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Inappropriate external links
I've moved the excessive or inappropriate external links here: 12.30.109.2 (talk) 22:34, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
 * World Against Racism Museum, one of the first cybermuseums, which was established by Rothblatt
 * Terasem Movement website
 * Lifenaut website
 * Transbeman, a film produced by Rothblatt
 * Legal Rights of Conscious Computers, a video presentation by Rothblatt at an Immortality Institute Life Extension conference
 * Human is Not Limited to Flesh ...”, a video interview with Rothblatt, done via SKYPE, January 2009
 * Once A Man, Always A Genius, Rothblatt's March 1, 2007 appearance on the Howard Stern show
 * Business is personal for satellite radio, drug entrepreneur
 * Mindclones blog
 * Mindclones vlog
 * Radiolab podcast on Bina48

Martine's wife Beverlee Prator (nickname: Bina Aspen) & biological children - source
A connected contributor, RothRep, has reverted for no legitimate reason and deleted valid sources, such as the New York Magazine article. RothRep deleted that Bina's real name is Beverlee (see source below) and that Martine & Bina have two children together and adopted one another's children from prior relationships (see source below).

What RothRep has reverted/deleted: 1) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Martine_Rothblatt&diff=626157219&oldid=626155374 2) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Martine_Rothblatt&diff=prev&oldid=626278992

My valid sources:
 * "The Rothblatts, now married, legally adopted each other’s children, and would soon have two more. Bina started her conversion to Judaism (her given name is actually Beverlee)." http://nymag.com/news/features/martine-rothblatt-transgender-ceo/index2.html


 * "Bina, who is African-American, grew up in Compton and was working as a real-estate agent. But they had much in common—starting with the fact that they were both single parents. Martin had met a woman in Kenya on his way home from the Seychelles; the relationship had not worked out, but had produced a son, Eli, who was 3. Bina’s daughter, Sunee, was about the same age." http://nymag.com/news/features/martine-rothblatt-transgender-ceo/index1.html


 * Beverlee Prator with Martine Rothblatt, September 9, 2014: http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/beverlee-prator-and-martine-rothblatt-arrive-to-new-york-news-photo/455114476

12.30.109.2 (talk) 01:08, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Click here to see RothRep's contributions. 12.30.109.2 (talk) 01:15, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

I also commented on RothRep's talk page yesterday but RothRep responded by altering/deleting my words. 12.30.109.2 (talk) 01:38, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

I understand your position, however you are mistaken, in that Prator is NOT a given name.66.151.103.15 (talk) 15:04, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Dear contributor- I am writing to let you know that Bina Rothblatt is not a nickname, but a legal name, that was changed more than 20 years ago. The name "Beverlee Prator" is no longer a legal name. I believe RothRep tried to cite the legal name change documents in order to solve this issue. If you still require proof of name change, please let me know and we will provide. The continuous use of "Beverlee Prator" is extremely unwelcome to the subjects. Thank you.66.151.103.11 (talk) 19:20, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
 * You (or the family) are not the owner of this article, or of the BINA48 article. Martine Rothblatt's given name is mentioned at least twice in her Wikipedia article. People's given names are included in Wikipedia articles regardless of if the person wants their given name to be deleted or not. I see that you have, again, reverted even though the source for Bina's given name being Beverlee is clearly stated above. Your reason for reverting is not legitimate. 12.30.109.2 (talk) 14:13, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

The name Beverly Prator, is not a given name. So it does not apply, in this case. The legal name should be used. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.151.103.11 (talk) 14:48, 26 September 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm going to repeat what I've already said many times:
 * "Bina started her conversion to Judaism (her given name is actually Beverlee)." http://nymag.com/news/features/martine-rothblatt-transgender-ceo/index2.html
 * That's a direct quote from the New York Magazine article. -12.30.109.2 (talk) 15:52, 26 September 2014 (UTC)


 * I've changed the article to reflect what the sources say about the subject's spouse, and removed the names of their children. This insistence on giving her current legal name in quotes smacks of bad faith, and per WP:NPF details about her should not be even remotely controversial. This article is about Rothblatt, not Bina Aspen. There was a good-faith attempt to resolve this via dispute resolution in September which was ignored, so in absence of consensus to the contrary, we strictly observe policy. § FreeRangeFrog croak 21:42, 3 December 2014 (UTC)


 * I realize this was an old issue, but if it ever comes up again, I think we need to consider that RothRep's edits would be necessary today under the BLP policy and identity guideline, and the COI or sourcing concerns would not be grounds to revert the edits under those. --Tathar (talk) 02:48, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

news
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/highest-paid-female-ceo-martine-rothblatt-talks-pay-gap-231516214.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.176.108.8 (talk) 19:07, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Religion
Under § Early life and education:
 * Rothblatt was born in Chicago, Illinois, to observant Jews Rosa Lee and Hal Rothblatt,

Is her parents' religion / her birth religion relevant? If it's relevant to her religious life - which is not discussed anywhere in the article, although the ref quotes from the Time article hint at it - this one-word mention is insufficient. If not, what is it in there for? --Thnidu (talk) 19:40, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Career - Remodulin
I deleted a recent addition to the Career section, referencing Remodulin pricing, that appeared not relevant to Biography of Living Person (BLP) of Martine Rothblatt. "Exhorbitant" (should be spelled Exorbitant) is inflammatory and biased. The removed pricing section did not appear factual. The lawsuit with Sandoz is peripheral at best to BLP of Martine Rothblatt, and might belong at best in a wikipedia article about Remodulin.

Walter20779 (talk) 17:34, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Pronoun use can be misleading
"she was raised in a suburb of San Diego, California." <- When I read this I formed a mental image of her being raised as a girl (with exposure to sexism, periods, etc) and didn't realize this wasn't the case until "That same year, she says, she had sex reassignment surgery." quite some way down the article. Ideally text should not deceive the reader as to what actually occurred. Could the pronoun used be the one that she would have stated she preferred at the time rather than her currently preferred pronouns? Yes, this would mean different pronouns for different points in the article. 82.17.189.66 (talk) 19:41, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "She was" would use current pronouns and not all girls experience periods, trans or not. LethargicParasite (talk) 17:06, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
 * That not all girls experience periods is irrelevant. Use of the "he" pronoun at that point would still form a more accurate impression in the reader's mind. 82.17.189.66 (talk) 20:40, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Why did you bring up periods? Also, I think the project page on gender identity covers your concern, if that helps. LethargicParasite (talk) 22:48, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

UDP
I tagged this article undisclosed paid as part of a major sockpuppet investigation in December. Since it was requested I clarify my concerns, here we go: The article was edited by the VentureKit sockfarm; the edits in this case aren't very substantial, but they function as a canary for other UPE activity. In this case, it is apparent that, who only edits topics related to United Therapeutics has a conflict of interests, for example. Haven't checked the IP edits, but I'm going to guess we'd find some problematic ones there as well. It also has glaring promo and due weight issues – things like Rothblatt is a well-known voice for medical and pharmaceutical innovation. are mere puffery, and things like the "Sustainable building" section(!) serve solely to promote her. There is also excessive focus on awards etc. The article will need review for due weight and subtle promotional language. Best, Blablubbs&#124;talk 18:37, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
 * The user made a one character edit to the article by adding a period to the end of a sentence; however, the template is only supposed to be used on "articles for which there appears to be a significant contribution by an undisclosed paid editor." See Template:Undisclosed_paid If you suspect sockpuppets, you should run an IP check. It's not good policy to add undisclosed paid tags to articles simply on assumptions. Waters.Justin (talk) 18:49, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Religion?
How do we all feel about this change which I have reverted out of caution? I don't feel that it is completely incorrect to mention religion here but the linked article Terasem Movement does not support the idea that it is fundamentally a religion and we must not go beyond what is supported. It seems like Terasem has a religious organisation as one of its elements but that religion is not the main theme. It is hard to know how to write about this correctly as this is a very unusual situation. A religion with secular operations attached to it is not uncommon, the reverse very much is. It may be that the edit is fixable? I'm not sure. Does anybody have any thoughts? --DanielRigal (talk) 11:58, 17 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Your caution is unwarranted; it was a completely reasonable change. It was sourced to a Washington Post article already used elsewhere in this entry which unequivocally states that Terasem is a religion. According to the WP: "[Rothblatt] founded a religion, the Terasem Movement, which puts together her cultural Judaism (she puts on a mean seder), Zen-like yoga and a deep belief in technology. One of the four founding beliefs: 'Death is optional.'"
 * It's also notable that nothing else in the original passage is sourced and hardly describes the organization objectively. It's not an objective fact, for instance, that the organization "promotes joy". They claim to, but this is presented as a fact rather than a claim. The other change to the page which documented their "core beliefs" - and, again, sourced to a Time article already referenced earlier in Rothblatt's entry - buttresses the assertion that this is a religion. I doubt anyone would dispute that Terasem's core tenets are religious assertions: "life is purposeful, death is optional, God is technological and love is essential". While there is no agreed upon definition of religion, reasonable people can conclude that once you start talking about God and immortality you're talking about religion.
 * You say "A religion with secular operations attached to it is not uncommon, the reverse very much is." I contend that "the reverse", a secular organization with religious operations, is uncommon because it is fundamentally impossible. By definition, religious operations can only be carried out by religions. Relatedly, her own son is a pastor in this organization. A pastor is a position in a religious organization.
 * This change more accurately and objectively represents the organization and does so using sources already deemed credible elsewhere in Rothblatt's entry. Mainstream outlets have referred to Terasem as a religion. Terasem's core tenets are clearly religious in nature, including references to God and immortality. They carry out "religious operations" which I would argue by definition can only be carried out by religions. Her own son holding the position of pastor in the organization, when paired with these other observation, also suggests that Terasem is a religion. Finally, I would add that Terasem runs a website called terasemfaith.com that leaves little doubt about the nature of the organization and could be included as a source as religion and faith are generally used interchangeably. 24.96.61.132 (talk) 13:49, 17 June 2022 (UTC)