Talk:Mexican War of Independence

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Suggest to correct O'Gorman hyperlink in infobox
In the infobox picture caption the link for "Mural of independence by O'Gorman" is to Edmundo Gorman. This is the wrong brother. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmundo_O%27Gorman The correct brother is Juan. Suggest updating link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_O%27Gorman Thanks Jl00282 (talk) 18:19, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Valladolid
Is this a reference to Valladolid, Yucatán or to Morelia, Michoacán, then known as Valladolid? Yucatán seems a bit off the beaten track for the insurgents, in light of their other theatres of activity. –Hajor 18:52, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * I just noticed this. I believe you are right that the link should be to Morelia. Yucatán was at the time only accessible by sea from the rest of Mexico, not somewhere that could be "marched" to. -- Infrogmation 17:04, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It is Morelia, at the time Valladolid from the province of Michoacán. The city was renamed in 1828 after Jose María MORELOS y Pavon, second in command of the Insurgent Army. perdon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.143.214.80 (talk) 22:33, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Date of the signing of the Treaty of Córdoba ?
According to the Treaty of Córdoba page, it was signed on August 24, 1821, not "1821 September 27" mentioned on the Mexican War of Independence page. August'21 was also mentioned on the Córdoba, Veracruz page. Can someone in the know confirm the date, please ? Thanks. -- PFHLai 20:17, 2005 August 22 (UTC)
 * Encyclopædia Britannica says its Aug. 24, 1821, so I'm going to revise the article accordingly. -- PFHLai 04:25, 2005 August 23 (UTC)

September 27 1821, is the date when the "trigarante" army enters Mexico City and is considered as the date of the Mexican War of Independenc

What day did Hidalgo die on ?
this page lists july 31, but the hidalgo entry lists july 30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Hidalgo

He died on July 30, days later after the other insurgents because of his excomulgation process

POV?
To me this looks POV towards the rebels. For instance: in the table the rebels are called 'Mexico' instead of rebels/revolutionaries/terrorists. Also, it states that the royalists killed like long kinds civilians, no number given of civilians killed by the rebels. From the text I understand the rebels killed civilians. It would be remarkable if the guerilla war did not have royalists civilians (collaborators) as victims. <---Gachos Pukkie 12:51, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Pukkie,
 * True, there could be more details and quantitative estimates on the atrocities committed by the rebels. For instance, the 1810 siege of Guanajuato and ensuing massacre of loyalist Mexicans is one of many dark pages in Mexico's history. There were doubtless many other massacres by both sides, which may not have been recorded because of the localized and even personal nature of many episodes.


 * On the other hand, for the sake of legalism, the table is correct in labeling the rebels "Mexico," because the uprising was initiated after Hidalgo's proclamation of Mexican independence on Sept. 15, 1810. Because in later years this date came to be considered Mexico's de jure (though not de facto) independence day, the actions of the rebels can be considered those of Mexico. Indeed, in modern historical analysis, the history of independent Mexico heavily depends upon Hidalgo's grito as a marker--one speaks of the era before the grito and of the era after it. --Unregistered user

Actual dates
September 16 and 17. The date was changed on the late 19th century by Porfirio Díaz, to fit his own birthday a day before.--Fluence (talk) 03:47, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Spanish Reports!!!(stupid)
I know Spansh reports are stupid but this is a good page to do one on the independence of Mexico!

I give props to wikipedia!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.20.242.64 (talk) 01:17, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

There is a HUGE TYPO on the dates... but I don't know the correct ones... The text "In January 2009" appears in the text while talking about Mexican independence. This is clearly off by almost 200 years. -Pablo Arriola —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.201.108.3 (talk) 19:44, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Mexican-US Border?
The town where Hidalgo and other insurgents were captured was Acatita de Baján, in the now state of Chihuahua. But at the time, California, Texas, and New Mexico were Mexican (or New Spanian) Territories -acounting for half of the country's area- so they where quite far from the US Border.201.141.27.25 (talk) 00:00, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Rewrite?
I think this article needs some work. For example, the section on independence is extremely short, twice rebel armies magically appear without any statement of where they came from, their size, etc. This article is very low start class in my opinion. I would help with grammer and phrasing if necessary, but I am hoping someone out there has mor expertise on this subject than I have and has sources for many of the factual additions that are necessary.205.152.247.15 (talk) 12:49, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * sorry, forgot to log in for the previous additionTheseeker4 (talk) 12:49, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Hello Theseeker. I've been considering working on this article, as you're write, it does need some work. I've been trying to work off the Spanish and Italian versions some, as they're both pretty well done. You are welcome to help. Thanks,  Grsz  X  13:11, 3 October 2008 (UTC) and dont forget the most important person of the war in 1809 Tynisha Simmons was the first black female to gain respect from spain and mexico.

I agree about the need for the rewrite. Their is a tremendous amount of analysis in the section about Miguel Hidalgo, and it seems out of place. For example: "The truth about Hidalgo is a little more complex. The facts and dates leave no doubt: his was the first serious insurrection on Mexican soil against Spanish authority, and he managed to get quite far with his poorly armed mob. He was a charismatic leader and made a good team with the military man Allende despite their mutual hatred. But Hidalgo's shortcomings make one ask "What if?"" This is not neutral, and it even sounds like it could have been plagiarized. -HorselessHeadsmen — Preceding unsigned comment added by HorselessHeadsmen (talk • contribs) 04:02, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

agree above. this section must be removed. cringe culminating : "Poor peasants and Indians only had the power to burn, pillage and destroy: they could not create a new identity for Mexico, one that would allow Mexicans to psychologically break from Spain and craft a national conscience for themselves."

do I detect racisim? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yyymichael (talk • contribs) 23:09, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Text overlaps picture
The text overlaps the picture of the declaration of independence when viewed with Firefox, and the size is enlarged a few times. (Ctl+=) Unfree (talk) 20:03, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Merge: Mexican War of Independence and Grito de Dolores
I'm proposing that the above two articles be merged together because they have very similar topics (first explains what happens before and the outcome, last explains the remembrance and the famous saying). I'm also suggesting that the topic would be moved to Mexican independence.Comments? Respective topics will be headlined with the merge box if needed. Totlmstr (talk) 22:32, 6 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I respectfully oppose the merger. The two topics are related of course, but I propose that they are distinct enough to merit two articles (especially on an on-line encyclopedia like Wikipedia). Besides, the Grito is an event of reference not only to the war of independence but to Mexican politics and national identity, that it would be confusing to subsume it in a general article. It should also be noted that the Grito and Hidalgo's efforts start the successful campaign for independence, but it was not the only factor nor the starting point. Hidalgo's efforts are a continuation of events that began unrolling even before the coup carried out by Gabriel Yermo, and the war ended by a coalition of royalists and rebels, conservatives and liberals, many of which had no direct connection to the Grito.  For at least these reasons I think the two should not be merged and the Grito article left as a stand-alone article. Thanks!TriniMuñoz (talk) 16:51, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Under Begining of War section.
Under the Beginning of War section the following reads "Hidalgo had already achieved notoriety- he gambled, fornicated, had children out of wedlock and didn't believe in Hell." Really?? I think this needs to be stricken as there are no citations or references to its veracity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brucejr (talk • contribs) 13:36, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Background section, reference to Martín Cortés
Some verification is needed to determine whether Martin Cortes was trying to eliminate the privileges of the conquistadors and whether his actions were a precursor to the 1810 War of Independence. My understanding from what I am reading on Wiki is that Martin Cortes (like others, including Pizarro) was unhappy about the New Laws, which were designed to replace the encomienda system. His motives were then not to eliminate the privileges of the conquistadors but to ensure that his inheritance would be protected. After reading the way the passage is currently written, one gets the impression that Martin Cortes was an advocate of indigenous workers' rights. This stikes me as inaccurate and inconsistent, however, I am not a scholar on this topic and so leave this to discussion. --Dorismirella (talk) 13:45, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Vandals
I have had this article temporarily protected today as there has been a rash of vandalism this week. It will expire on Sept 26th.  PK T (alk)  21:07, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Insanely Undervalued Spanish/Royalist Casualties
At the battle of Monte de las Crucas alone, the Spanish defenders were basically overrun and consensus says that the vast majority of the nearly 3,000~ men were massacred. Likewise, we see 400 dead at Huajuapan de Leon alone on top of that. So with these facts in mind, how in God's name do we see- in a war of this scale, this length, and thus brutality- only 2,000 Spanish killed? Yes, I agree that the Spanish and Royalists had a qualitative advantage for most of the war, that large chunks of the battles were relatively small (in comparison to-say- the regular battles of the American Revolution, French Revolution, Napoleonic Wars, Latin American revolutions, etc), and that the Royalists as a result tended to suffer relatively smaller losses. But there is no reason to believe that they were *that* small and plenty of reasons to believe they weren't. 75.36.164.241 (talk) 19:18, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Requested Edits - Removal of Highly Subjective Content
Admin,

In the least, this article needs the end of "First phase of the insurgency - the Hidalgo revolt" starting from "The truth about Hidalgo is a little more complex" removed.

The content is not only poorly written - it is based on pure opinion, cites nothing, and could be considered offensive.

Nobody can make improvements to this article because it is locked.

For more background, please see bottom of talk section "Rewrite?" and response ticket #2015042910028266.

Yyymichael (talk) 20:38, 1 May 2015 (UTC)


 * No COI, so removed that template. Joseph2302 (talk) 22:39, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 23:48, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 July 2016
In the "First phase of the insurgency: the Hidalgo revolt", just below the tag, it states 'Father Hidalgo is today remembered today as the Father of his Country,'. I think there is one to many today's there. Turismond (talk) 04:14, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Thanks for spotting!    MediaKill13   (  talk  )   05:01, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 11 May 2018
In "Construction of Historical Memory of Independence" change the spelling of "peeling" to "pealing". It has read "peeling" since this section was created on 18:11, 22 September 2015‎. 99.23.194.130 (talk) 21:40, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done with thanks, Nici  Vampire  Heart  21:46, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 September 2019
Please fix typo in intro: indepedence → independence 81.102.123.39 (talk) 17:08, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 17:31, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Illustration mis-captioned
The first illustration (as of Sept 25, 2020) is stated to be "clockwise from top left" followed by labels for what is shown, but it isn't. The labels for what is shown go in the order of top-to-bottom and within any row left to right before proceeding to the next row down.2604:2000:1383:8B0B:1C64:8308:33BC:E2D6 (talk) 07:13, 25 September 2020 (UTC)Christopher L. Simpson
 * Fixed. (CC) Tb hotch ™ 16:47, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Confusion
There appear to be two Agustín de Iturbide, one born in Mexico and another in the US. See Mexican War of Independence Peter Horn User talk 22:10, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Agustín de Iturbide appears to have switched sides. See Mariano Matamoros. Peter Horn User talk 22:30, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * There is just one, born in Mexico, America as opposed to Spain. Vpab15 (talk) 23:12, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Severe absence of Race, Religion and Culture. Full article rewrite?
In this article there is a severe absence of the role that race, religion and culture played in developing not only indigenous and creole attitudes to the independence movement before 1810 but also during the conflict. The mention of the hyperlocalism of the indigenous population is limited, and their role watered down. A statocentric view is apparent and weakens the article. Anachronistic.

Religion is not explored as far as it should be, and it seems that the article only views religion as a tool used by the revolutionaries. This is false. Read any Van Young article/book, or any Hamnett article/book. Archer also briefly touches on this, but I believe his view on the matter is still relatively statocentric and economically based.

Cultural divide was possible the greatest reason for revolt, although not expressly set by the rebels. More needs to be said about the ethnic divide during this time as this paid a great role not only in for Creoles but in the separation between the Creole and indignious rebellion. There is also not enough mention of the differences the Creole and indiginous population had for rebelling.

Semi-protected edit request on 5 February 2023
In the section of The Hidalgo revolt, 1810–1811, there is a word missing in the second paragraph.

Change "...and was friends men who held Enlightenment views." to "...and was friends with men who held Enlightenment views." Idk xch (talk) 23:25, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ RudolfRed (talk) 00:54, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 May 2023
Nothingissssssss (talk) the independence was caused by a bear names the hemingway
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 17:08, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 November 2023
Spelling error of the word: "Following" in the Hidalgo revolt section. Gunblaze101 (talk) 15:47, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ For others who are confused, the sentence (in its original form) was "At his trial followoing his capture later that year,", where "following" was misspelt as "followoing". Liu1126 (talk) 17:12, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 May 2024
a misspelling I think you meant 'Long live Christ', not 'Love live Christ' Erm, what the sigma skibidi ohio? (talk) 01:33, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Charliehdb (talk) 04:46, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * ✔️ at 1:56 actually. SilverLocust 💬 19:31, 29 May 2024 (UTC)