Talk:Mount Everest

Change The title name to Sagarmatha Chomolungma
Dear Editor This mountain doesn't belong to British empire and also didn't have been colonized. So nat any British institute or Wikipedia have name it's title as the secondary names. The basic name should be in native names. So with due respect I request you to change the title to Mt. Sagarmatha Chomolungma. Not any other name can be allowed. In description some empire named it as Mt. Everest. Because, not any british people had explored it, but only saw from far away and by calculation they estimated its height. So no one can claim it. So please change it. Thanks 103.174.168.65 (talk) 15:43, 3 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia's policy for article titles is to use the common name used in secondary sources (specifically its common name in the English language... as this is an English language encyclopedia). See WP:COMMONNAME for details. Leventio (talk) 16:11, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * This is just colonialism dressed up and being covered for. Parenthesize the coloquial name if you must so that people can search for and find the article, but it's Qomolangma first, not Everest. Our goal is to provide people with accurate information, and part of that is correcting a false narrative perpetuated by how we present that information to the public. It's accurate to say it's called Everest by many people; I have a nickname too, but that's not how the government knows me, and my name wouldn't change if suddenly everyone started calling me Stephen. It would be a spit in the face if they kept calling me that when I don't like it. This is an ethical misstep. Wikipedia is a resource for an informed public, and part of education is updating outdated information and leaving behind old biases--that starts with the title. 68.69.203.33 (talk) 19:59, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Again, review WP:COMMONNAME for details on how we determine article titles with multiple names. Also, Sagarmatha already serves as a redirect for this article, so people who search that will find this article... Leventio (talk) 21:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * When writing an encyclopaedia with the aim to educate people, policies that cause misinformation to be spread, ought to be disregarded. Mount Everest is only a recent name and it is one pushing colonialism in the article, and it does not provide neutrality in the international edition of Wikipedia. Please mind that this encyclopaedia also serves the Indian subcontinent which has as many English speakers and readers as the USA, and which is the location of the mountain at issue. 109.193.92.252 (talk) 05:05, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Coordinates in the infobox
The reference for this is now an irrecoverable dead link, but it seems to have been a WP:SPS. I propose to replace it with one from the American Congress on Surveying and Mapping. As this is a bit sensitive (China/Nepal border) I thought I'd check here first.
 * Alternatively, USA Today.

--AntientNestor (talk) 07:59, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I can't read the ACSM reference, but the USA Today source only gives the location to the nearest minute, 27.98333°N, 86.93333°W, which is not very precise. WikiProject Mountains often uses Peakbagger which claims 27.98833°N, 86.92528°W. It would be good to compare multiple sources and see if there is agreement, or whether we can find the most up-to-date measurement. — hike395 (talk) 15:11, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I saw Peakbagger. It seems very comprehensive, but isn't it WP:USERGENERATED? AntientNestor (talk) 15:48, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * There was a long discission about this at WP:RSN in 2021 that did not come to consensus. The quantitative data is not WP:USERGENERATED, but is self-published. We could not come to consensus about whether Peakbagger falls under the "Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established subject-matter expert, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications" exception to WP:SPS.
 * I would suggest that we can use Peakbagger coordinates to see if there is a consensus lat/long amongst many sources, but maybe choose a different source if they agree. What coordinates do ACSM suggest? — hike395 (talk) 16:13, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * ACSM has 27.97294°N, 86.92944°W, which is a far higher precision than is recommended in WP:OPCOORD. I'd be happy with USA today, as it's the most readily available. The odd metre either way won't matter if there's agreement. AntientNestor (talk) 16:23, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * USA Today coordinates are 1.214 km away from ACSM: I think that is unacceptably imprecise. I'll look for more. — hike395 (talk) 01:00, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * FWIW, clicking on the kink in the China/Nepal boundary at Mount Everest on Google Maps yields 27.98833°N, 86.92528°W (rounding to the nearest second), which matches Peakbagger. — hike395 (talk) 01:05, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Clicking on the peak icon at acme.com yields 27.98806°N, 86.92528°W (to the nearest second), only 30m away. — hike395 (talk) 01:13, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * OK, let's avoid USA Today then. I'm glad we're sorting this out here first! AntientNestor (talk) 07:16, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Interestingly, the China State Bureau of Surveying and Mapping locates the peak at 27.98772°N, 86.92764°W (to the nearest 0.1 degree). This is somewhat to the east in China. When I look at the topographic map at Acme and click on the highest topo point (instead of the peak icon), I get 27.98861°N, 86.92528°W (nearest second), also a little bit in China, but much closer to the other coordinates. — hike395 (talk) 15:45, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Interesting that the result of a joint China/Nepal effort, that places the summit in China, is published only in a Chinese journal. It's definitely a WP:RS, though, and should go in, replacing the both existing note and its reference. You found this—do you want to do it?--AntientNestor (talk) 16:54, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I find it a bit suspect, since it appears to be 242 meters away from the general consensus of the mapping services. It's also unclear whether it is the result of the joint effort from 2017-9. My current preference is to use Peakbagger (because that is consistent with the mapping services, and clearly superior to the WP:OR that is currently in the infobox), but continue to investigate. Or we can cite to Google Maps if you find the WP:SPS to be an issue? — hike395 (talk) 17:24, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Peakbagger has been discussed before and seems generally to be accepted, so go with it. I think the Chinese are reporting the 22 May 2019 ascent with GPS kit by Nepalese climber Khimlal Gautam. The headline in National Geographic was "Nepal has remeasured Mount Everest. Now China has to weigh in." --AntientNestor (talk) 18:07, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Sagarmatha
"In the early 1960s, the Nepali government coined the Nepali name Sagarmāthā (IAST transcription) or Sagar-Matha (सगर-माथा, [sʌɡʌrmatʰa], lit. "goddess of the sky"), ... "

It certainly was not coined in the 1960s. There are several newspaper articles from the time of the first successful climb that mentions the name. For eg, Guardian, July 13, 1953 (https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-guardian-everest1/143686293/ ) says "Everest is known in Nepal as Sagarmatha".

What I understand from newspapers in the 1960s is that the Chinese claimed that this word was newly coined by Nepal while Nepal argued that it is an ancient name. Can someone who knows the subject comment on this. In any case, "early 1960s" is incorrect. Tintin 17:17, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Rewritten per the source provided. The cited source said nothing about the Nepali government coining it in 1960 anyway. RegentsPark (comment) 20:06, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Tintin 20:26, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

"Modern pronunciation
One sentence reads as follows:

"The modern pronunciation of Everest (/ˈɛvərɪst/) is different from Sir George's pronunciation of his surname (/ˈiːvrɪst/ EEV-rist)."

In North American English I have heard only /ˈɛvərɛst/ and not /ˈɛvərɪst/.

Remove Unneutral Text
In Mount Everest, the last sentence of the 1st paragraph says: "This was, however, a route decision dictated more by politics than by design, as the Chinese border was closed to the western world in the 1950s, after the People's Republic of China invaded Tibet." Meanwhile, it doesn't fit in the context which basically talking about technical details, and the word invaded seems to be unneutral, because the article linked to the word is Battle of Chamdo and this article is much more neutral.

Furthermore, this content can be found in Three_Steps, which is the main article of the north route. MspreilsCN (talk) 14:05, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * No comment on the rest of your post but, in the context of the Chinese invasion of Tibet, "invaded" is the correct word to use. RegentsPark (comment) 14:42, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 June 2024
The article states: Its elevation (snow height) of 8,848.86 m (29,031 ft 8+1⁄2 in) was most recently established in 2020 by the Chinese and Nepali authorities.

It would be good for the article to show a profile of Mount Everest's full height, and to make clear that climbers actually climb only part of this profile (i.e. part of the geological mass). For example, driving into North base camp and summiting from there, means climbing 3700m, or 42% of Mount Everest's height. Flying from Kathmandu to Lukla and starting from there means climbing 5990m, or 68% of Mount Everest's height. So suggest inclusion of the following paragraph:

''Climbers typically ascend only part of Mount Everest's elevation, as the mountain's full elevation is measured from the geoid (global mean sea level). The closest sea to Everest's peak is the Bay of Bengal, almost 700 km away. So to approximate a climb of the entire height of Mount Everest, one would need to start from sea level there, a feat accomplished by [|Tim Macartney Snape's] team in 1990.''

This could be a reference to Mount Everest's full height profile (see Figs 2, 3, 5)

This provides a detailed examination of standard and non-standard climbing routes. Suggest inclusion of it as a reference in addition to [256]. 124.148.218.244 (talk) 06:44, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: Perfectly valid request, could you provide the map you are looking to add? Geardona (talk to me?) 02:36, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your response. How do I provide the image of the map to you? Is there a way to upload? 124.148.218.244 (talk) 13:42, 1 July 2024 (UTC)