Talk:Muscat

History
Wasn't Muscat once part of Pakistan? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.143.61.134 (talk) 18:09, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well actually GWADAR now a part of pakistan was a part of sultanate of oman before its control was relenquished to the pakistanis...SO YOU GOT YOUR INFORMATION ALLLL WRONG! User:Pranav21391(User talk:Pranav21391)

The historical text should be recast using modern sources which differentiate between the state of research in the mid 19th century and today. Haphasard source selection results in a skewed text. See e.g. D.T. Potts Arabian Gulf in Antiquity, 1990. Azd0815 (talk) 03:55, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Flag history I'm told by a friend from Muscat that the flag was all red until 1970, when it was "Msucat and Oman". Now, it is the flag that is easily found with a quick google search:

http://www.travelblog.org/pix/flags/omani-large-flag.gif

I would appreciate it if a regular editor will look into this, and update the flag to the current official flag. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alfranco584 (talk • contribs) 05:28, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Population
In the text, it sais the population is 880 200, in the infobox it says 646 024. / Habj 01:33, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

why would anyone want to live in this shithole? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8802:2602:C300:8195:B64D:77BE:1CFE (talk) 20:24, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Correct pronunciation
Could someone add a note to indicate where the stress falls in "Muscat", as I think the correct stress is on the first syllabble (MUScat), but many people like to put the stress on the second (musCAT). Could someone clarify this please.


 * To my ear, native pronunciation of Musqat has a very slightly greater emphasis upon the second syllable. However, as is the case in many languages including Arabic it is common for no single syllable to be stressed more than any other in a given word.

Corrected the place names .Bharatveer 04:23, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Who wrote the IPA transcription of Muscat? I am curious, because it does not match the Arabic spelling of the name - unless the (Classical) Arabic spelling (which I would have assumed would be pronounced [mʌsqʌtʕ]) is not faithful to the local pronunciation of the name in Oman. --SameerKhan 07:55, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Mostly the pronounciation is sipposed to be masCAT as far as i know Vgnsh20011 (talk) 11:17, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

Transportation
The writing style looks very much that of a tourist guide map than an encyclopedic article. Bharatveer 11:56, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Particularly the last line. "Large lanes"? Mashford 20:47, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I have doubts on the term "Baiza Buses". Only seen it in some tourist descriptions. I have never heard it used in Muscat. Rather 'Shared Taxi" seems to be the common name. Mostly Clueless (talk) 12:31, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Requested move (2009)
No consensus Parsecboy (talk) 15:23, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

The capital city of Oman is the most common usage of Muscat. No other notable uses are listed in the disambiguation page. Also take a look at 'what links here'. Basis9 (talk) 14:33, 15 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Support per nom but you might get some œnological resistance. —  AjaxSmack   16:51, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Clearly the grape is either the primary use or we have two primary uses, hence the need for the dab page. As to the what links here argument, sloppy editing or bad naming conventions are not an excuse to move articles in violation of primary use policy. Likewise, being 'based on' is not a reason for moving. And notable is not part of the primary use criteria since every blue link on a dab page is notable. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:31, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Œnological resistance. Srnec (talk) 04:51, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Geography
The map coordinates listed, 21°00′N 57°00′E, are wrong, as these are well into the central interior of Oman. Furthermore the Tropic of Cancer, at 23° 26′ 22″ N, would pass north of these stated coordinates.

Based on what I can deduce from Google Earth, the coordinates of Muscat should be about 23° 35′ N 58° 30′ E, with the Tropic of Cancer running through the urban area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.138.251.66 (talk) 14:55, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Request move (2010)

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: No consensus. Jafeluv (talk) 09:03, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Muscat, Oman → — In the previous such request (2009), the only objection raised was that the wine might be the primary topic, which sounds like something a winebuff might say. Currently is linked 96 separate articles of which six are wine-related (Uruguayan cuisine, Bridgeview Vineyard and Winery, Milestii Mici (winery), Serbian wine, Champoux Vineyard, and Ripeness in viticulture). The remaining ninety relate to the city, which would suggest other editors have linked to Muscat, thinking that it referred Muscat, capital city of Oman, and not Muscat, grape and wine. This is definitely the primary topic. Green Giant (talk) 21:58, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Support Definitely the primary topic Chipmunkdavis (talk) 23:10, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Support as primary topic. The the grape and wine are usually appended as such.  Muscat has already redirected to Muscat, Oman for six months since the dab page was moved to Muscat (disambiguation) with no ill effect (or apparently anyone noticing either.  —   AjaxSmack   01:35, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Support as primary topic. Cjc13 (talk) 12:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Support We already accept that the city is the primary topic as Muscat redirects to this page.  In addition, there is already a hatnote referring to Muscat (disambiguation).  It might be an idea to expand the hatnote to also refer specifically to Muscat (grape and wine).  Skinsmoke (talk) 07:04, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Someone cut-and-paste moved Muscat to Muscat (disambiguation). I have history-merge moved it back. Please request any obstructed moves in Requested moves.
 * Oppose. The disambig page (now in Muscat) has 13 choices. (In my experience I have little reason to concern myself with the wine OR with the place.) Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:34, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The dab page does have 13 articles but one is a redlink as yet so I don't think that should count :P Green Giant (talk) 02:00, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm sorry Anthony Appleyard, but this is descending into the realms of being ridiculous.  The disambiguation page has 13 links, one of which we don't even have an article on.  None of the people listed are known simply as Muscat.  The football club and governorate derive their names from the city.  That leaves us with the wine or the city as primary topic.  The city is clearly the primary topic, and the disambiguation page should be moved back to Muscat (disambiguation).  Given that the redirect to the city had been in place for six months, making that move while the discussion was ongoing was, to say the least, unhelpful.  Skinsmoke (talk) 04:17, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, OK, I have moved the disambig page back to Muscat (disambiguation). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 12:55, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose, What links here is only one measure, and arguably measures sloppy editing more accurately than primary usage. Google search is inconclusive. Traffic statistics show parity between Muscat, Oman and Muscat (grape and wine). older ≠ wiser 01:43, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - Those stats refer to the specific articles in one month; it might be more relevant to consider how many of the views of Muscat were looking for the city or the wine. We should note the disclaimer on that stats page:
 * redirects and moves are split across different statistics pages so you should really include the stats for the redirects
 * the stats are "easily susceptible to deliberate attacks and manipulations"
 * The author recommends not basing important decisions on these stats.
 * In this case "What links here" isn't so much sloppy editing if you consider that:
 * more than 700 "articles" link directly or via redirects to Muscat, Oman
 * about 300 "articles" link directly or via redirects to Muscat (grape and wine)
 * only 96 "articles" link to Muscat and the vast majority are clearly referring to the city
 * Note that's articles, and not talkpages or other links. Green Giant (talk) 16:25, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm well aware of the limitations of traffic statistics and I've been critical of over-reliance on traffic statistics in the past. You cite some of the limitations, but fail to actually produce any actual evidence that undermines the usage. The Google results are also significant. In all, there is no strong indication of a primary topic. older ≠ wiser 01:42, 30 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose. The wine and hence the grape are significant uses.  While I would like to think that they are the primary use, that would be impossible to prove.  Hence we likely have a case with two (actually three) significant uses and no primary use.  Contrary to the positions of some editors, cities are not by definition the primary use as I have made clear in the past. There is nothing wrong with a disambiguated name for a location. One point when I looked at the incoming links before they were cleaned up, a good portion were for the football club.  Vegaswikian (talk) 17:53, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

SOMEBODY IS CARRYING OUT DEFAMATION

HTYE CHANGED THE NAME IN INFOBOX..TO MASCTEEEE —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pranav21391 (talk • contribs) 18:49, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Portuguese conquest of malacca and muscat, and the subsequent arab reconquest of muscat and east africa from the portuguese

http://books.google.com/books?id=Ol6K4ef_c5wC&pg=PA461&dq=portuguese+arabs+to+the+sword&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KN7sUNWdIMbw0QHQ6oCADQ&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=portuguese%20arabs%20to%20the%20sword&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=iJQ3AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA553&dq=Besieging+portuguese+fort+mozanbique+omani&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0dvsUM-tH-2x0AGlwICYDw&ved=0CGcQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Besieging%20portuguese%20fort%20mozanbique%20omani&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=hkceAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA882&dq=portuguese+arabs+to+the+sword+muscat&hl=en&sa=X&ei=p97sUK2zI4XU0gH6woCgBA&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=portuguese%20arabs%20to%20the%20sword%20muscat&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=_vvOAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA324&dq=portuguese+arabs+to+the+sword+muscat&hl=en&sa=X&ei=p97sUK2zI4XU0gH6woCgBA&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=portuguese%20arabs%20to%20the%20sword%20muscat&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=4aWTTEQKveUC&pg=PA324&dq=portuguese+arabs+to+the+sword+muscat&hl=en&sa=X&ei=p97sUK2zI4XU0gH6woCgBA&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=portuguese%20arabs%20to%20the%20sword%20muscat&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=FTTGWSme30YC&pg=PR47&dq=portuguese+arabs+to+the+sword+muscat&hl=en&sa=X&ei=p97sUK2zI4XU0gH6woCgBA&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=portuguese%20arabs%20to%20the%20sword%20muscat&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=vAIUk2xHTRcC&pg=PA59&dq=portuguese+arabs+to+the+sword&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KN7sUNWdIMbw0QHQ6oCADQ&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=portuguese%20arabs%20to%20the%20sword&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=PudcGHsg34kC&pg=PA236&dq=portuguese+arabs+to+the+sword+muscat&hl=en&sa=X&ei=p97sUK2zI4XU0gH6woCgBA&ved=0CEUQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=portuguese%20arabs%20to%20the%20sword%20muscat&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=kX0CAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA181&dq=portuguese+arabs+to+the+sword+muscat&hl=en&sa=X&ei=p97sUK2zI4XU0gH6woCgBA&ved=0CEsQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=portuguese%20arabs%20to%20the%20sword%20muscat&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=ozlcAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA1-PA183&dq=portuguese+arabs+to+the+sword+muscat&hl=en&sa=X&ei=p97sUK2zI4XU0gH6woCgBA&ved=0CFAQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=portuguese%20arabs%20to%20the%20sword%20muscat&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=jhlTSlWNxWAC&pg=PA244&dq=portuguese+arabs+to+the+sword+muscat&hl=en&sa=X&ei=p97sUK2zI4XU0gH6woCgBA&ved=0CFYQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=portuguese%20arabs%20to%20the%20sword%20muscat&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=dbsOoPpZiSEC&pg=PA194&dq=portuguese+arabs+to+the+sword+muscat&hl=en&sa=X&ei=p97sUK2zI4XU0gH6woCgBA&ved=0CFsQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=portuguese%20arabs%20to%20the%20sword%20muscat&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=dAhZAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA454&dq=portuguese+arabs+to+the+sword+muscat&hl=en&sa=X&ei=p97sUK2zI4XU0gH6woCgBA&ved=0CGEQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=portuguese%20arabs%20to%20the%20sword%20muscat&f=false

09:26, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Merge proposal
The article talks mostly about Muscat Governorate, the metropolitan area referred to officially as Muscat city. Muscat Municipality for example deals with the whole governorate. Muscat province is referred to officially as the Old Muscat City and does not contain any government buildings or ports. I suggest merging this article with the Muscat governorate article since it mostly talks about the latter, or moving everything to the latter article except the Etymology and History sections, which talk mostly, if not exclusively about the Old Muscat.

K authored (talk) 17:07, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Wrong map of Muscat on article front page.
The front page of Wikipedia article for Muscat shows the map of Bangladesh.

Please replace the map at the earliest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.98.51.112 (talk) 06:37, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

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Requested move 3 March 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: No consensus. (non-admin closure) Primary topic seems to be rather ambiguous, and no consensus has developed either way. InsertCleverPhraseHere  02:14, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

– I am rather surprised that the capital city of a not-insignificant country is not at its base title. Most of my search results on DuckDuckGo and Google are about the capital of Oman instead of the grape/wine. Page views data also show that this article is viewed more than the article about the grape. sst✈ 12:02, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Muscat, Oman → Muscat
 * Muscat → Muscat (disambiguation)
 * Support - in book results, "muscat" "oman" has 185,000 hits, while "muscat" "grape" has 84,600. I think that gives the city enough of an edge. We could consider including the grape in the hatnote though, as well as the disambiguation page, to make the grape one click away rather than two. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 12:48, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
 * You didn't include the results for muscat+wine. If you do that, the existence of a primary topic isn't as clear. ~Amatulić (talk) 18:42, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Support per the nom and WP:SHOUTOUT2OMAN. Nohomersryan (talk) 01:00, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose no primary topic, Google Books does not show that Oman is much greater than wine and grapes. A 2:1 advantage isn't enough. -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 05:38, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I am rather surprised that this move proposal keeps coming up, in spite of the fact that there isn't a clear unambiguous primary topic. About 1/3 of the sources and page views are for the grape. That's near enough to 50%. I'd support a move if that fraction was insignificant, but it isn't. ~Amatulić (talk) 06:24, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose. When you use "wine" instead of "grape", the gap is even slightly closer, with 88,800 hits for muscat wine. And if you go further, on a simple google search it is 20,200,000 for the city, while 23,500,000 for the wine. Scholar also has about 27k for the city, and 12k for the wine and 13k for the grape. These numbers hardly show a preponderance of usage for a single primary focus.  Onel 5969  TT me 12:45, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose Keeping the status quo makes it easier to spot incorrect incoming links.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 11:11, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia should be optimised for readers and not editors. —  AjaxSmack  05:43, 17 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Support. I was coming into this one thinking "oppose", but |Muscat,_Oman|Muscat_(grape) the pageview evidence is pretty convincing: the capital of Oman article gets about 72% of the pageviews - including the dab page - while the grape article gets less than 25%. That is clearly more than any other use, and more than all the other uses combined. A double hatnote to the grape and the dab page should do th trick. Dohn joe (talk) 15:45, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Page views don't make a primary topic. Sources do. And the sources do not indicate a primary topic. ~Amatulić (talk) 05:43, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Support, per Amakuru + Dohn joe's evidence, making it the WP:PTOPIC. ©   Tb hotch ™ (en-2.5). 04:16, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose. A line call perhaps, in which case I think we should stick with the DAB at the undisambiguated name. Andrewa (talk) 05:22, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Support. Having the majority of Google Books hits and 72% of the page views is clear indication that this is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.--Cúchullain t/ c 18:03, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Did you see Onel5969's analysis above? The OP didn't include searches for muscat+wine, and if you do that, there is not an overwhelming majority of sources in favor of the city. And page views do not make primary topics on Wikipedia. ~Amatulić (talk) 18:35, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I noticed it, but there are always different ways you can parse Google returns. At any rate it seems that the search for the city is coming out ahead by any Google measure. As for page views, they're one of the major ways we can determine use; it definitely shows what our readers are looking for. Both topics are of serious long-term significance and encyclopedic value, but one is sought by readers significantly more.--Cúchullain t/ c 20:11, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * But we don't determine primary topics according to page views. We use sources. The city may have somewhat more sources than the grape/wine, but in my view, a 2/3 proportion isn't sufficient. Unfortunately we have no policy on how large the fraction should be, which is why we have discussions like this. ~Amatulić (talk) 05:00, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Page views are one of the forms of evidence we use in determining primary topics, as is use in sources. In this case this topic is more common in both, which to my mind is a pretty clear indication it's primary.--Cúchullain t/ c 11:54, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The policy that governs how we name articles is Article titles. Where, exactly, does that policy say anything about page views carrying any weight? ~Amatulić (talk) 23:09, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The WP:PRIMARYTOPIC guideline, which is cited by WP:AT.--Cúchullain t/ c 00:19, 16 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Support as primary topic per comments above. The the grapes and wines are usually appended as such.  —  AjaxSmack   05:43, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Support. Quite clearly what "Muscat" searchers are look for. Filpro (talk) 00:51, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Support clearly a primary topic about the Omani capital which is more common and well-known name, with the named wine is much unfamiliar. It is notably seen in older encyclopedias. ApprenticeFan  work 14:14, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Strong Oppose this far-reaching primarytopic grab on a broadly ambiguous term, which only serves to make the article title less precise and inconvenience all the readers that are looking for other meanings such as the grape. Dicklyon (talk) 17:30, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Strong support A capital city is inherently more notable than anything else with the same name. Bazonka (talk) 12:00, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Support - in view of my personal very intense dislike and distrust of the usage of the Primary Topic policy, I can relate to the notability as stated by bazonka rather than the primary topic issue, and as a consequence am in support of the move JarrahTree 13:02, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you mean. WP:NOTABILITY is not a relevant concept here.  Dicklyon (talk) 16:26, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Perhaps not, but WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is relevant. A simple Google search for "Muscat grape" brings back 445,000 results, whereas a search for "Muscat Oman" returns 16.4 million. The primary topic is very clearly the city. Bazonka (talk) 15:05, 10 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Support as clear primary topic per above. In English-language sources, the city has been and will continue to be the subject of more commentary than the grape. As noted by Amakuru above, the grape can be linked directly in the hatnote, so readers will not be inconvenienced at all.  IgnorantArmies   (talk)  02:56, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Support. Yup. Primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:09, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose, there is no clear evidence for either the grape/wine or the city being primary. older ≠ wiser 14:18, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The grape has been associated with the name for far longer than the town with the this transliteration.  Muscat, Oman is very acceptable as is.  There is no PrimaryTopic.  People who care about wine will know only the grape.  People, non-drinkers, in Arab lands, will know only the town/capital.  Far better to keep the disambiguation page and to use more precision in linking.  Page views are not so easily interpreted, probably far more know of the grape but it being a simpler topic few have an interested in reading encyclopedic information about it.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:34, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The etymology of the grape's name is uncertain, although it is possibly named after the city. Therefore it is impossible to say with any certainty that "the grape has been associated with the name for far longer than the town". Also it is ridiculous to say that drinkers will not know of the city — not everyone who drinks wine is geographically ignorant, especially where capital cities are concerned. Bazonka (talk) 15:02, 10 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Support Muscat, Oman is primary. Helpful evidence (per WP:PTOPIC): more incoming wikilinks to this page; more traffic; more Google hits, more Books, more News Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:19, 11 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Requested move 3 August 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was:  both moved   Kostas20142 (talk) 11:28, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

– Over a year after the last RM, Oman's capital is still standing firm in terms of evidence, so I think we should revisit. It receives 73% of the page views over the grape,|Muscat_(grape) slightly up from last year's figures, and still has several times the Google Books hits, with 280k hits for Muscat Oman compared to 84k for Muscat grape. Seems like a clear case of a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. There's also the WP:SURPRISE factor of having the capital of a nation not being at the base name, requiring readers to go through a dab page to find it. Cúchullain t/ c 20:49, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Muscat, Oman → Muscat
 * Muscat → Muscat (disambiguation)


 * Support, but I think the grape should be in the hatnote. Srnec (talk) 02:40, 4 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Support per the nominator, overwhelmingly the primary topic both in terms of use and long-term significance. The grape is getting a decent amount of views so per Srnec it should be included in the hatnote. Ivar the Boneful (talk) 14:42, 7 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Support as primary topic per comments in sections above. The the grapes and wines are usually appended as such.  —  AjaxSmack  02:44, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

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