Talk:Nephrops norvegicus

Name
In the UK 'Norway lobsters' are refered to langoustines, in my experience, they are never refered to as 'Norway lobsters' and most people wouldn't have a clue what one was (other than some unknown type of lobster). I would even go as far to say that lots of people don't even realise that langoustines are a type of lobster but think they're a type of prawn. From my experience I would say that Irish people refer to them as Dublin Bay prawns and that Australian people refer to them as scampi (which is only used in the UK when they are served in breadcrumbs) Who calls them 'norway lobsters'? Will Bradshaw (talk) 15:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree. Why on earth is this named "Norway Lobster"? Half of all langoustines are caught in the UK and they are know as langoustines here or scampi when deep-fried. Is "Norway Lobster" another americanism? Torqueing (talk) 17:26, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I suggest this page gets moved to 'Langoustine' if nobody comments in support of 'Norway lobster' within the next couple of weeks. Will Bradshaw (talk) 20:14, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * No, this is definitely not an Americanism (the animal doesn't occur anywhere near the New World). They are very widely known as Norway lobsters in the British Isles, with a slight and understandable preponderance for "Dublin Bay prawn" west of the Irish Sea. Perhaps next time, you might consider notifying the relevant WikiProject of your move request. It came as something of a shock to find that there was an active discussion going on, about an article I have contributed to quite significantly, which hadn't been mentioned on any of the pages I watch. --Stemonitis (talk) 19:12, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I apologise, I had a bit of a look over various procedures about requesting moves but didn't see anything about notifying WikiProjects. I would support a move to N. norvegicus though. Will Bradshaw (talk) 18:14, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Ridge
The bit that suggests nephrop fisheries without by catch of plaice and soul being unviable is nonsense. I've fished for nephrops, and whilst its soul destroying and extremely cold (off the north east coast its winter season trawling) standing at a sorting tray for 10 or more hours, there's good money in it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.177.116.201 (talk) 11:58, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:34, 1 December 2010 (UTC) Norway lobster → Langoustine — Relisted. Vegaswikian (talk) 01:06, 23 November 2010 (UTC) WP:COMMONNAME
 * I have never heard the term 'Norway Lobster' used, they are known as langoustines. Will Bradshaw (talk) 23:10, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * They are called Norway lobsters here in England. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 23:52, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * According to the BBC they are also called scampi . 76.66.203.138 (talk) 05:28, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Scampi in the kitchen, Norway lobsters by fishermen and sea biologists. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 07:04, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * They're only called scampi if they're served in breadcrumbs and fried, if they're served whole they're langoustines, it's also worth noting that the BBC page says that they're "closely related to the lobster" but makes no other mention of them being lobsters, every recipe on there refers to them as langoustines. They may be called norway lobsters by fishermen and sea biologists, but I'm fairly certain that more people come across them as consumers and use the term langoustine. Will Bradshaw (talk) 08:46, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Support I saw them on menus as langoustine in England. Tasty! -- Ja Ga  talk 19:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Given that consumers may come across them as either scampi or langoustines, the former may also refer to other species, the latter may be confused with langostino, and the article is about the animal rather than (specifically) about the food, I'd be inclined to leave the title as it is.--Kotniski (talk) 10:36, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * To avoid confusion we could put a "Not to be confused with..." thing in, I would say that langoustine does refer to the animal and not just the food. Will Bradshaw (talk) 18:36, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, "Nephrops norvegicus" "Norway lobster" massively trounces the same thing with "langoustine" on both Google Books and Scholar.--Kotniski (talk) 18:49, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Langoustine beats them both in a normal google search and although a significant number of the results are just about langoustines as food, not all of them are. Going back to the marine biology point earlier, Glasgow University has a 'Langoustine Lab', not a 'Norway Lobster Lab' or an 'N. norvegicus lab'. Will Bradshaw (talk) 00:23, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose langoustine is a generic name 'in the kitchen'; Norway lobster is the usual common name for the species. &mdash;innotata 17:01, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I had no idea there was a discussion going on here, else I'd have made my opinions known earlier. Terms like "langoustine" and "scampi" are always going to be vague, unless carefully defined by equating them to a more precise term. The best "common name" for the article title, considering all the different spheres of life it appears in (fisheries, kitchens, laboratories, aquaria, etc.) is undoubtedly "Norway lobster". (I suspect the good people of Glasgow University simply liked the alliteration, so we can't set too much weight by that.) The only justifiable change of name would be to "Nephrops norvegicus", since there are so many competing and contrasting common names. Indeed, I was half planning to make that move soon. Whenever there is confusion or competition, the scientific name is the best choice. --Stemonitis (talk) 19:09, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Merger with Scampi
As User:Macrakis has already suggested on Talk:Scampi, scampi is simply a manner of preparing Nephrops norvegicus for human consumption. There is little information on the Scampi article that is not already included on Nephrops norvegicus; a merger would not bloat the latter article. As such, Scampi should be merged here. Neelix (talk) 14:17, 30 May 2013 (UTC)


 * An alternative would be to expand scampi to cover other similar taxa that are (presumably) prepared in the same way for consumption, such as the "Australian scampi", Metanephrops australiensis, and the "New Zealand scampi", Metanephrops challengeri. I haven't looked in detail, but I imagine it would cover meat from any species in the (polyphyletic) group of Nephrops + Metanephrops (and possibly Nephropsis and others). --Stemonitis (talk) 14:24, 30 May 2013 (UTC)


 * That's not exactly what I said. "Scampi" is the normal Italian name and the general (legally defined) culinary name for Nephrops norvegicus in Europe, and the culinary name for a variety of other species around the world. It has also become the name of two distinct styles (sauteed with garlic in the US; breaded and deep-fried in the UK) of preparation for seafood (see e.g. "scallop scampi" (!!).  The scampi article could be a disambiguation article pointing to the various species called "scampi" as well as to a Scampi (dish) article. --Macrakis (talk) 19:59, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
 * A disambiguation page makes sense to me, although I would distinguish between Scampi (British cuisine) and Scampi (American cuisine), considering that the two dishes are unrelated to each other. Do you have sources to verify that "scampi" is used to refer to species other than Nephrops norvegicus and not simply one of those species prepared in one of the two manners you describe? Neelix (talk) 02:50, 1 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Not off hand, but they're not hard to come by. This Australian government source, for instance, explicitly equates "scampi" with (several) Metanephrops species (p. 96), and is written from a fisheries point of view, so is not relating to culinary preparation. --Stemonitis (talk) 10:27, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Certainly, Metanephrops should be on the disambiguation page, as should Nephrops norvegicus. Is everyone on board with making Scampi a disambiguation page and splitting the information currently on the Scampi article into Scampi (British cuisine) and Scampi (American cuisine)? Neelix (talk) 15:39, 1 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure a disambiguation page is the way forward. I haven't seen any convincing evidence that the various dishes called "scampi" are entirely different; that is, I'm not sure there are separate topics of "scampi (British cuisine)" and "scampi (American cuisine)" (let alone what to title them). I suspect that the culinary "scampi" is whatever method is the preferred local way of cooking Nephrops-like lobsters, and then, by extension (perhaps only in North America), other dishes cooked in a similar way. That doesn't immediately seem to need disambiguation to me, just explanation in a single coherent article. If the Americans use "scampi" (none of which species occur naturally around North America, as far as I can tell – perhaps some of the less significant Nephropsis species?) for sautéeing with garlic, then a separate article may not be needed, anyway, just links to sautéeing and garlic. --Stemonitis (talk) 10:28, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I have reviewed your observations and reworded the lead of the Scampi article accordingly. If everyone is OK with the new lead, I would be glad to withdraw the merger suggestion. Neelix (talk) 16:38, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd be happy with it. --Stemonitis (talk) 05:45, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

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