Talk:Nicola Sturgeon/Archive 2

Scottish or British?
This question comes up quite frequently re Scottish politicians and there may no indisputably correct answer. But it would appear that "Scotland" and "Scottish" are used for most of them, and have become well established in this article. Recent edits appear to be being directed by a single user using multiple IPs and probably in support of a unionist agenda. Contributions to this page from that user would be more helpful.

Re nationality, see our article on that subject, especially the third and fourth paragraphs in the lede section. Viewfinder (talk) 17:07, 6 April 2013 (UTC)


 * The majority of Scottish people, i.e 62%, would describe themselves as 'Scottish Only' as their identity, after that a small minority would actually describe themselves as fully 'British'. Also due to the fact that Sturgeon is an SNP politician I would find it highly unlikely that she would be among the very small minority that describe themselves as 'British' before 'Scottish'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Liambrodie (talk • contribs) 17:59, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Article Introduction is Confusing
The article introduction is about as confusing as one could possibly make it. Why is that? What steps in logic are missing? Stevenmitchell (talk) 14:19, 24 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Hopefully I've fixed it, found it confusing too. Just added an extra clause like this: "Both were subsequently elected, and as Salmond was still an MP in the House of Commons, Sturgeon led the SNP in the Scottish Parliament from 2004 to 2007," Robert Walker (talk) 15:48, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Sturgeon Government
Just wondering whether it's worth starting Sturgeon Government as a spin-off article. I created it yesterday as a redirect to Government of the 4th Scottish Parliament but suspect there'll soon be enough information about her First Ministership for a standalone piece. I have in mind using something like Australia's Abbott Government as a model, which gives quite a lot of detail on that administration. Also, I feel this sort of thing wouldn't be unprecedented, as we have one or two articles on governments of Canadian provinces, Premiership of John Edward Brownlee being an example. Any thoughts? This is Paul (talk) 14:50, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Middle name in lead
I really don't think this belongs here. She does not use her middle name. --John (talk) 15:05, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, when a Google search of "Nicola Ferguston Sturgeon" presents this article as the top hit, then I tend to agree. The same issue came up with Johann Lamont, and in both cases their middle names are virtually unused in media. This is Paul (talk) 15:56, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Just checking. --John (talk) 16:12, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Nobody ever referred to Donald Dewar as "Donald Campbell Dewar", Henry McLeish as "Henry Baird McLeish", Jack McConnell as "Jack Wilson McConnell" or Alex Salmond as "Alexander Elliot Anderson Salmond" either. However, each of those former First Ministers are referred to by their full name in the lead on each of their respective articles. If that is the case with all four of them, why should Ms Sturgeon's lead be different? I suggest either her middle name stays, or all of their middle names are also removed. Also, Gordon Brown's lead is "James Gordon Brown", and when is he ever referred to as that? I think it is better if this articles lead is consistent with the usage which seems to be most common i.e. the full name. Reefyj (talk)

Religion
Sturgeon is described as having "Church of Scotland" as her religion. Yet there appears no evidence in the body of the article to this effect. Is this really the case? In the absence of evidence, ought this not to be removed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chris McLaughlin (talk • contribs) 00:53, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Absolutely. I have done so. Well seen. --John (talk) 01:29, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Reference 12
The reference is used to support the statement that Sturgeon did not swear allegiance to the Queen, but the text of the reference does not support this. I will remove this statement as BLP. 185.51.254.254 (talk) 10:47, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

2015 General Election
Could do with something about the Sturgeon impact on the GE. Not sure where to start though! Debates maybe? Paulbrock (talk) 11:17, 23 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Paulbrock do you mean the impact of voters thinking that a minority Labour government would be supported by the SNP or something to do with Sturgeon herself? Both interesting topics Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 12:35, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Turner Syndrome
Does anyone know if she has this condition? Her low-set ears, short stature and childlessness make me wonder.--MartinUK (talk) 04:08, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Nicola Sturgeon
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Nicola Sturgeon's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "nbcnews": From Proposed second Scottish independence referendum:  From Scottish independence referendum, 2014:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 02:29, 28 June 2016 (UTC)


 * This has been completed Davidcarroll (talk) 20:12, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 July 2016
DanielMundey (talk) 22:18, 6 July 2016 (UTC) Indy Ref 2
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — Andy W.  ( talk  · ctb) 22:23, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

This page needs stricter editing powers, seeing the edit history, vandalism is quite frequent, can someone with greater powers than me make this happen please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hogyncymru (talk • contribs) 21:32, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

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Trivia
This information was recently removed from the article as insignificant trivia, so I've took the liberty of removing a little more stuff that probably falls into the same category (see here). A lot of articles contain this kind of information, but how relevant is it to know what football team someone supports, that they enjoy a particular hobby, and so on? Any thoughts? This is Paul (talk) 16:22, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Being verifiable and referenced is a minimum, but not sufficient, condition to include some information at Wikipedia, and the other portion is relevence. In this article, the information that was removed this time is, in my opinion, not relevent.  That is not a general endorsement on any other removals or additions or text in any other article at all at Wikipedia.  Every article should be considered on its own merits.  A foolish consistency is rarely helpful.  What a lot of articles do or do not do is entirely irrelevent to the discussion about this article, and bringing up any other article is a distraction.  The text that I removed was irrelevent to this article.  I make no other statements about any other article at all, though if a different article has a different problem, we can discuss that problem on that article's talk page.  -- Jayron 32 16:38, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * If Sturgeon ever had a Cameron-esque gaffe then we could maybe discuss inclusion. (I'd still disagree, but the case would be stronger) As it is now I think both the Borgen and football team factoids are relevant only to a very small subset of die-hard fans at best. --RevivesDarks (talk) 16:46, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't think she ever has made a gaffe like that, so I tend to agree. Also, I suppose if she were of a later generation, and had been inspired to go into politics by watching Borgen then there would be a case for including it, but she was deputy first minister by the time it came along. Didn't mean to bite you by the way. I should delve further into your edit history before assuming bad faith. This is Paul (talk) 16:55, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm glad we came to a consensus. Also, don't worry, I don't feel bitten - I didn't detect much assumption of bad faith on your part and I've been editing since 2014 after all. :) --RevivesDarks (talk) 20:02, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141117035008/http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2014/nov/new-snp-leadership-team-sturgeon-and-hosie to http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2014/nov/new-snp-leadership-team-sturgeon-and-hosie

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Too much focus on foreign affairs in article
Over half this article focuses on Brexit and foreign affairs. As foreign affairs is a reserved matter, wouldn't it make sense to rebalance the article away from foreign affairs and towards domestic policy? That is what she is responsible for after all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MassiveNewOrderFan (talk • contribs) 17:48, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I've restored this as you should seek consensus before making such a major edit as this one. Perhaps it might be worth spinning this off into a separate article as there's quite a lot of it. Perhaps something like Politics of Nicola Sturgeon. This is Paul (talk) 18:19, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't think a separate article is needed. Most of this content simply needs to be removed. It is superfluous and erroneously implies that foreign affairs is a major part of her remit, and of her tenure. It is almost as if the author of this content is trying to create the impression she is a major international stateswoman. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MassiveNewOrderFan (talk • contribs) 19:41, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * It's probably worth mentioning this discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom to see what others think. She's not an international stateswoman but does put herself on the international stage from time to time. This is Paul (talk) 18:41, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * It does look to me like the international affairs section could do with a significant trim. Sturgeon visits place X, etc., is routine stuff that doesn't warrant coverage. Bondegezou (talk) 21:34, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * There's also a fair amount of material using Scottish Government sources or SNP sources, neither of which are independent. We should be using independent reliable sources. Bondegezou (talk) 21:54, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for clearing up the international affairs section. I've also trimmed the Brexit section, most of which was superfluous, repetitive and badly written. Ideally, it would be great if someone could rewrite and reedit the whole article, as it has read like a propaganda piece until now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MassiveNewOrderFan (talk • contribs) 00:44, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * It's looking a lot better now. I'm still not convinced we need to remove all the Brexit stuff as she has been quite vocal on the subject and had various meetings about it, but I do agree the whole thing could do with a rewrite. This is Paul (talk) 13:13, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Her nationality again
We've had the nationality debate on so many talk pages, but here goes again. Technically I suppose this is right. However, the UK nationality vs the nationality of her constituent countries argument causes so much controversy that I feel consensus is needed before changing from one to the other, or even adding one of the other. Otherwise it just gets a load of people upset, causes copious amounts of unnecessary wikidrama, and we're forever changing it back and forth depending on who happens to stumble upon this and many other pages. For what it's worth my thoughts are that we should look at these issues on a case-by-case basis, taking into account in this particular instance the person's politics. As regards Nicola Sturgeon, she's a Scottish Nationalist, a Scottish politician (her job is to run the Scottish government not the UK government) and therefore we should either have her nationality as Scottish or else leave it out altogether. This is Paul (talk) 17:36, 30 November 2018 (UTC)


 * I wholly agree, and I have reverted the latest attempt to foist the "British" label on someone who is obviously Scottish. Previous discussions at and  would seem the long-standing consensus is to describe her as Scottish. FDW777 (talk) 19:13, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Nationaility
I would recommend putting in place a British Scottish laid out like this in Mrs Sturgeons infobox: British -Scottish

Just to please the indyreffers ;) (Airline7375 (talk) 12:09, 1 March 2020 (UTC))


 * The advice given at Infobox person is that the Nationality parameter Should only be used if nationality cannot be inferred from the birthplace, which is not the case here. I would remove it from the infobox entirely.  However that will not stop the edit-warring over the lead, unfortunately, which currently seems to be a bigger problem. Wham2001 (talk) 15:21, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Currently serving as the fifth First Minister
Is there some way to rephrase this? She won't always be the First Minister, but she will always be the fifth First Minister, just as James III will always be the fifth king of the House of Stewart. Nyttend backup (talk) 12:24, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Nationality Scottish or British?
This is a complex subject. Looking at the definition of nationality on the wiki page, it opens with the line "Nationality is the legal relationship between a person and a state", which taken at face value would of course make Nicola Sturgeon's nationality British (just as it is the nationality of Ruth Davidson or Kezia Dugdale), with no possibility of it being Scottish since Scotland does not exist as an independent state, and being born in the UK prior to 1983 conferred British nationality (at least in the legal sense).

In previous (rather thinly commented) discussions around SNP politicians, however, the preferred definition has instead been how people see themselves or are assumed to see themselves based on party membership. Is this really a good definition? Particularly given that there is often no actual citation given for these people seeing themselves in terms of actual nationality as Scottish only?

When this was discussed in relation to Gerry Adams, the case for his Irish nationality rested on the fact that he has an Irish passport. Obviously in the case of Nicola Sturgeon, no such passport exists. What's the real justification for giving her nationality exclusively as Scottish? FOARP (talk) 11:28, 30 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Done. Corrected the box item. Mootros (talk) 15:39, 28 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Undone, since you have no consensus to make that change. This is Paul (talk) 22:05, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I am Canadian so I am not up to speed on this issue, but is Scotland a Nation (i.e. re Nationality)? I thought it was part of the United Kingdom nation. How many editors of this opinion would it take to have a consensus that Sturgeon is British? Peter K Burian (talk) 22:18, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
 * People on both sides of the independence issue agree that Scotland is a nation, a term which does not necessarily imply statehood. The UK is a state that comprises several nations (England, Scotland, Wales) and one region (Northern Ireland). Some people (mostly Unionists) would also describe the UK as a nation, but this is contentious. Seph Shewell Brockway (talk) 17:49, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

The United Kingdom is not a state, it is a political union of monarchy only and Britain is not actually a Nation-state, but a title applied to the landmass hosting multiple nations.

A nation cannot have sub-nations within its landmass.

A nation can have districts and so on.

England is a nation retaining a National flag and anthem, Scotland is a Nation retaining a National flag and anthem.

Both are individual national, so if you are born in Scotland, you are a Scottish National born within the United Kingdom.

The answer is yes if you are born in England, you are an English national, your national identity is English, the same applies to Scottish people. 2A00:23C8:8580:1C00:248D:9E14:8A4F:58AE (talk) 09:00, 7 July 2020 (UTC)byes.

Sorry but almost all of that is factually incorrect.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain has been a unitary sovereign state since the Acts of Union in 1704. For the previous 100 years however they did already share a monarch.

Since 1704 the legal nationality of both Scots and English has been British.

Great Britain is the name of the island which they share.

England and Scotland do not have different national anthems: there is only one, the British national anthem - 'God Save the Queen'. They do have different historical national flags which are often flown, but in both cases the flag of the state is the Union Flag.

Anyone can of course informally choose to describe their 'nationality' as Scots, English, Welsh or (Northern) Irish. But in each case their legal nationality is British. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.19.55.95 (talk) 15:41, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 June 2020
Her nationality is British and not Scottish 2001:8004:13C2:34AF:A946:9F54:1A46:36F8 (talk) 05:30, 1 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Discussed above at, and the constant attempts to disregard consensus is why the article is semi-protected. Please seek consensus for this change before submitting an edit request. FDW777 (talk) 06:55, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Deputy is spelt wrong "depute" where it says "depute leader" in the card — Preceding unsigned comment added by SirPenguinMay (talk • contribs) 02:29, 3 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Depute is correct. FDW777 (talk) 08:29, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion
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 * FM meets with Juncker.jpg (discussion)
 * First Minister meets the Prime Minister at Bute House.jpg (discussion)
 * First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon.jpg (discussion)
 * Nicola Sturgeon election infobox 3.jpg (discussion)
 * Official portrait of Nicola Sturgeon.jpg (discussion)
 * Scottish Cabinet at Bute House, June 2007 (2).jpg (discussion)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 January 2021
"Change to the title shown for Nicola Sturgeon, 'The Right Honourable Nicola Sturgeon MSP' to 'The Right Honourable Nicola Sturgeon MSP PC' to indicate her membership of the Privy Council. Davidcockburn95 (talk) 15:25, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * ❌ I spot checked about a dozen people listed at List of current members of the British Privy Council and none use the PC initialism; possibly because it is (essentially) redundant to The Right Honorable. Regardless, it doesn't look like it is one of the postnominal initialisms we use by convention.  -- Jayron 32 17:21, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 April 2021
Add 'United Kingdom' after 'Scotland' in relation to her birthplace, as Scotland is part of the United Kingdom Macandjheeze (talk) 22:32, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Not done, as per WP:PLACE. There's no ambiguity or disambiguation with the use of "Scotland", so that's not necessary. Uses x (talk • contribs) 23:06, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

First Minister section too long - Split article?
The section on her tenure seems too long. Could we trim and move some of it to a new article. For example Premiership of Nicola Sturgeon?

JLo-Watson (talk) 00:19, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

I think a Premiership article for Nicola would be a such great idea! 2A00:23C5:2C01:9501:488B:6447:46B8:9E9 (talk) 17:55, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Portrait
What are everyone's thoughts on a change of portrait? I think we should use D as that’s Nicola’s official portrait which is used on the Scot Gov website: https://www.gov.scot/about/who-runs-government/first-minister/ 2A00:23C5:2C01:9501:7DB3:6207:FECE:B10B (talk) 17:31, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I think we should use neutral photos that focus on the subject and nothing else. D, from a non-neutral source, deliberately puts a Scottish flag behind her, so we shouldn't use that. The current one, A, is fine. C is fine. Bondegezou (talk) 12:26, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Most US Presidents have the American flag behind them, Bondegezou. Nicola Sturgeon is the First Minister of Scotland, so there’s no problem with having the nation’s flag that she governs behind her. And it shows her in a formal first ministerial way. 2A00:23C5:2C01:9501:45EC:8546:102:B215 (talk) 21:44, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm unclear how the flag-waving of US Presidents disproves my point. Sturgeon was not always and will, I presume, not always be the First Minister of Scotland. This article is not about the First Minister of Scotland, it is about Nicola Sturgeon, the person. Wikipedia seeks to be neutral. The current agreed upon portrait is a neutral image of her. I see no clamour here for any change: let's stick with what we've been using. Bondegezou (talk) 22:13, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I support a cropped version of C over the current one (A), simply because it's a better quality image. B is mildly blurry, and D isn't great quality (the flag would need to be cropped out anyway, so that's not a factor). Uses x (talk • contribs) 22:44, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I personally like C as well. A I feel is dated and so too is D, thats why I think B and C would be better. I do feel though that B is blurry so it makes C a little better. Thats just my opinion but I'm happy with anything. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Monkey1987king (talk • contribs) 18:17, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with C. A bit of a crop could be done. Bondegezou (talk) 18:30, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Well, I don't like the current one, it makes her look a bit demonic. PatGallacher (talk) 11:41, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

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Move discussion in progress
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Trans rights
The article says that 'In September 2021, Sturgeon was accused of shutting down debate about gender reforms, after she heckled Murdo Fraser in parliament when he mentioned the Women's Rights Demo organised by feminist campaign group For Women Scotland, and when she described women's concerns as "not valid"' but the sources say she described criticisms of gender recognition reform as 'not valid', not 'women's concerns'. Some of the criticisms were made by women, some by men. The reforms are also supported by many women so they're not accurately described as 'women's concerns'. 90.241.29.72 (talk) 13:35, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:05, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Change 'when she described women's concerns as "not valid"' to 'when she described concerns about gender recognition reform as "not valid"', using the existing sources. 90.241.29.72 (talk) 15:13, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ (courtesy ping ) — LauritzT (talk) 12:52, 12 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Further to this are reports of a super injunction involving Sturgeon and allegations about her sexuality: https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-woman-who-doesnt-exist/ 81.154.171.127 (talk) 19:43, 17 October 2021 (UTC)81.154.171.127 (talk) 14:23, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Nicola Sturgeon lied to Scottish Parliament: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/01/an-incredible-omission/ 81.154.171.127 (talk) 14:32, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
 * That's not a reliable source. I suggest you familiarise yourself with WP:RS. There is zero point in you sharing non-reliable sources. Bondegezou (talk) 11:34, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Does Wikipedia need to obey UK "Super Injunction" ?
Can WP discuss and insert reports of a super injunction involving Sturgeon and allegations about her sexuality? https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-woman-who-doesnt-exist/ ? 81.152.239.131 (talk) 11:20, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * That citation is clearly insufficient on multiple grounds to support any content in this article.
 * Wikipedia is not based in the UK, so my understanding is, if something is reported outside the UK, and we have suitable reliable sources and meet all other policies, then it can be included in a Wikipedia article about a UK individual regardless of any injunctions on reporting in the UK. However, we should clearly tread carefully in such matters. The starting point has to be reliable sources that name an individual. If you have those, please share them. There is zero point indulging in speculation about vague briefings from biased sources. Bondegezou (talk) 11:31, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you 81.152.239.131 (talk) 11:36, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Lying to the Scottish Parliament
There's plenty of evidence proving that Sturgeon lied to Parliament during the Salmond sex scandal. GeorgieJanet (talk) 05:06, 14 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Sorry, meant to say that this should somehow be included in the article GeorgieJanet (talk) 05:09, 14 December 2021 (UTC)


 * It was already concluded that she didn't mislead parliament or break the ministerial code in a report by James Hamilton. Any claims you make need to be cited, you've not provided any of the evidence you claim that she has. --KeyKing666 (talk) 21:07, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Infobox picture issues
What seems to be an apparent issue on the article is the official portrait used on Nicola Sturgeon's infobox. It keeps changing between these two and has just been changed again to the official portrait picture:


 * Support: Picture 1 - I personally prefer the official portrait picture because it is customary of leaders to have their official portrait on their infoboxes. --KeyKing666 (talk) 21:16, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Anything but Picture 1: in past discussion, we rejected Picture 1. Why are we going back on that decision? Pictures should be neutral, not have the political symbolism of a flag in the background. Bondegezou (talk) 22:19, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
 * She is the First Minister of Scotland and many leaders have the flag in their official portraits. The Saltire is the national flag of Scotland, it's not owned by any political party. Also, where have you agreed this before, I don't see any discussions before this one where there was disputes surrounding the infobox picture?--KeyKing666 (talk) 17:55, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * , The discussion is here in archive 2. Personally, I prefer picture two because its more focused on her face.--Llewee (talk) 19:54, 21 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Flags obviously have political symbolism, as is recognised in MOS:FLAG. This article is about Nicola Sturgeon the person, not about the First Minister of Scotland, the position. Bondegezou (talk) 23:42, 21 December 2021 (UTC)


 * If no flag is necessary for Nationalist Adolf Hitler then none for Nationalist Nicola. GeorgieJanet (talk) 13:55, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

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 * Nicola Sturgeon with Leo Varadkar 2019.jpg

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"Politician"
The term "politician" implies Nicola Sturgeon has been voted for by the public. Perhaps just the word "woman" of "person" would be more accurate
 * That's not the definition of politician. A politician is someone who is someone who is active in any political position. — Czello 20:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

"For Women Scotland"
There is a debate as to the appropriate description of this group in NS's page. Their own page states they have been called as "anti-trans,[3][4] as trans-exclusionary radical feminist,[5] and as a "gender-critical feminist group".[6]" Thus the label is contested.

Wikipedia urges editors to "Avoid stating seriously contested assertions as facts".

"Gender Critical" would be the most neutral of the descriptions - what do people think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sgitheanach12 (talk • contribs) 13:38, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Potentially "For Women Scotland, a group campaigning relating to transgender rights,"? WorthPoke2 (talk) 18:32, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 June 2022
typo "appropirate" last line of section "Caledonian MacBryne ferry delay" Burnt Toast 97 (talk) 15:50, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Cannolis (talk) 16:08, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Early life
Typo in early life under ‘She got bullied a primary school’ 92.238.61.65 (talk) 16:37, 9 October 2022 (UTC)


 * I've removed it entirely; I don't find it to be particularly noteworthy information. — Czello 16:40, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Changing nationality to include her self identity
Recently, I made an edit changing her nationality to accord with her recent statements regarding how she identifies as both Scottish and British. @Goodreg3 rightly reverted it, citing the existing consensus here. I had looked for it and had not found those archived discussions. I've now found them and gone back and read through them. Whenever the issue of adding British her nationality has come up, it has been dismissed with the suggestion that as a nationalist politician she is not likely to self-describe as British. (Eg. here) We now know this is not the case:, , ,. It is now clear that she considers herself both British and Scottish. Thus, that the arguments that sustained the previous consensus no longer stand and we should change the article accordingly. Jtrrs0 (talk) 16:29, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I agreed when I saw the headline and the single-line quotation. However, looking at the context and what she said at the same time, I'm not convinced. The context, according to The National, was "Asked about how the Yes campaign can win over hearts and minds to the cause...". Sturgeon went on to say "British is an identity that comes from being part of the British Isles. An independent Scotland will still be part of the British Isles." Really, then, she was saying that she is and always will be British because Scotland is part of a group of islands known as the British Isles and that the adjective associated with those islands collectively is 'British'. That's very different from what I thought when I saw the headline. It's similar to the Brexit argument: 'we'll still be European because the UK will still be in geographic Europe; we just won't be in the EU'. We could put the context and fuller description of what she said in the body of the article, but not in the infobox or lead, where it could easily be misinterpreted in the way that I misinterpreted it. EddieHugh (talk) 17:09, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Confusing sentence
The early life section includes the sentence "In her teens, she was “austere” and her style was gothic, which led to many of her teenager pictures questioning others whether she was a boy or girl." Is this meant to mean "many people who saw pictures of her as a teenager questioned whether she was a girl or boy"? In any case, it doesn't seem hugely relevant and feels possibly a bit sexist. Llewee (talk) 10:56, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
 * It seems to be based on Sturgeon's own words. The sentence would benefit from making that clear and just being clearer in general. PelicanPrize (talk) 16:34, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Family members
She has two sisters, (Gillian - NHS worker, already mentioned) and Alison (studied at Edinburgh Napier University) 91.110.45.239 (talk) 19:45, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Split the page
I suggest that splitting the page is not necessary. Political career and early life, which are already included, are already enough. 86.189.252.45 (talk) 10:40, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

User:Monkey1987king: Request to split articles
User:Monkey1987king has suggested that this page should be split into articles titled Early life and career of Nicola Sturgeon, Political positions of Nicola Sturgeon and Timeline of Nicola Sturgeon's premiership. Adding that the article may be too long to read and navigate comfortably. Please consider splitting content into sub-articles, condensing it, or adding subheadings. Please discuss this issue on the article's talk page. (December 2022)

Oppose: There are already articles on her premiership and there is no need to have seperate articles on her early life and career, this is what this page is for. Political positions is one I can understand however it could still be kept on this page. ~ KeyKing666 (talk) 22:26, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Oppose: Feel it to be unnecessary to have various separate articles on the one individual. A separate article on her premiership is understandable and normal, however, I feel the others proposed would not be beneficial. Goodreg3 (talk) 21:26, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

OpposeHalf-kratos21 (talk) 03:29, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Oppose She is a fairly minor political figure globally, only really known inside the UK. She doesn't really warrant four articles. Tim O&#39;Doherty (talk) 17:45, 1 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @User:Tim O&: Whilst I support your motion to oppose the proposed article split, I don't think it is fair to refer to Sturgeon as a "fairly minor political figure", given the fact she has visited countries such as the US and met with senior politicians, and attended international summits such as both COP26 and COP27, the Artic Circle and spoken at the United Nations to name but a few. Goodreg3 (talk) 00:39, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * You've cut out the operative word: "globally". Ask 100 non-UK citizens who she is and I doubt many people will know. She isn't even the second most powerful person in Scottish politics. Tim O&#39;Doherty (talk) 15:21, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * How important we personally feel a person should be globally is irrelevant to the discussion. WP:LENGTH and WP:SUMMARY are the only considerations we need to make with regards to discussions over splitting an article.  "Importance" just means "I care about them" and "Global Importance" just means "I care about them A WHOLE BUNCH".  That's of little relevance to the discussion at hand; what is relevant is does the relevant article text meet the standards of the WP:MOS, and if not, how should we remedy that.  -- Jayron 32 18:43, 3 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose The article is currently swamped primarily by material that either is already covered by Premiership of Nicola Sturgeon or should be covered there. If there is any excessive text here, that is remedied by removing duplicate material from this article.  Removing the smaller sections into their own articles actually makes the situation worse and not better, as it would result in some WP:UNDUE problems.  The length issue is a problem, but the OP's proposed solution is 180 degrees in the wrong direction to solve it.  -- Jayron <b style="color:#090">32</b> 17:28, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Oppose: It would be unnecessary to have separate pages like early life which could be put on this page. WideMan27 (talk) 10:47, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 February 2023
Grammar: please change "who's" to "whose" in "She has described herself as being an “austere” teen who's style tended towards goth" (in second paragraph of "Early years and family", in section "Early life") 92.16.238.94 (talk) 11:49, 15 February 2023 (UTC)


 * , thanks. — <i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i> 11:53, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 February 2023 (2)
Add a hyperlink to the Wikipedia page for Alex Salmond in the "Preceeded by" section. Rightgimel (talk) 12:28, 15 February 2023 (UTC)


 * In "Leader of the Scottish National Party"? Tim O&#39;Doherty (talk) 16:47, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: WP:LINKONCE. His name appears in the majority of the sections of the infobox. Repeating the link in all of them seems excessive. small jars 17:43, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * The policy you cite expressly exempts infoboxes from WP:LINKONCE. Standard practice is to link every name in an infobox each time it occurs. PianoDan (talk) 17:54, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅: okay. I read to much into small jars  00:41, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Last paragraph of lede
The last paragraph of the lede isn’t well written at all in my view. It also may lack some sort of neutrality. It should be noted she didn’t explicitly outline what the short term pressures were herself. It reads as if she was just listing out the various failures of her government in her resignation speech. I think it needs improvement or failing that just remove it altogether and just mention that she announced her resignation. JLo-Watson (talk) 11:29, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
 * It's WP:RECENTISM. More details can be added if they are confirmed in the future, but "she resigned" is enough for now. The lead has ballooned, so a trim of unnecessary detail is welcome anyway. EddieHugh (talk) 12:07, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed - will remove accordingly JLo-Watson (talk) 15:18, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Office of the First Minister - Office Ordering
Wasn't going to edit it, but, does the office of the First Minister feature ordering? Similar to that of the ordering used by offices such as the President of the U.S? I'm not to sure it does, anyone able to confirm this.

Thanks! BlockBuster2K43 (talk) 11:33, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Not former FM yet
Nicola Sturgeon is still FM until the Scottish Parliament's nomination is accepted by the King and Mr Yousaf has taken the oath at the Court of Session.

This is standard for election of First Minister's in Scotland. As the part on handover from Salmond to Sturgeon in this very article testifies. Please fix. 2A02:C7C:D009:6900:69D4:A819:2A5F:A2C0 (talk) 22:40, 28 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Presently the office is vacant. Sturgeon did tender her resignation and the office is vacant. You are correct that Yousaf is not in office quite yet though. Estar8806 (talk) 22:49, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Alleged statue plans
Whoever added the Scotsman article about the plan to add a statue of Sturgeon to the Scottish Parliament has been had by an obvious joke: the article was released on 1 April and the supposed author is Orla Floip (an anagram for "April Fool"):

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-planning-to-honour-nicola-sturgeon-with-statue-in-scottish-parliament-4087364 185.13.50.177 (talk) 14:52, 9 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks, removed. — <i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i> 21:49, 10 April 2023 (UTC)