Talk:Notes on a Conditional Form

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 January 2021 and 15 April 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Tarynrollins.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 01:43, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

So does the title mean anything specific or w h a t...?
(NBT) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.199.0.164 (talk) 16:59, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 May 2020
Add a review from the Weekend Australian 'Review': https://www.theaustralian.com.au/arts/review/the-1975-rages-against-the-machine/news-story/353794c22bc0129a112f9b371090c60f 42.241.25.143 (talk) 09:30, 25 May 2020 (UTC)


 * ❌. It's not clear what changes you want to make. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon &bull; videos) 13:02, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Writing credits
I'm making this a topic here because it's... surprisingly confusing, and I think this is the best location to expand on it.

Basically, the writing credits for this album are a bit hard to determine.

The first source that one would seek out to find them would, of course, be the album's liner notes, which introduced the first issue I had with the page as I found it on the 23rd: it claimed to cite the album's liner notes while actually not representing the credits as shone there. That important page of liner notes can be seen on this discogs page for the CD and this discogs page for the vinyl (click "More images" on both) and this unboxing of a different edition of the vinyl (timestamp is in the link). They all give the same credit, which I will elucidate in due course: "ALL TRACKS WRITTEN BY GEORGE DANIEL & MATTHEW HEALY, EXCEPT 'TONIGHT (I WISH I WAS YOUR BOY)' WRITTEN BY GEORGE DANIEL, MATTHEW HEALY & GUENDOLINE ROME VIRAY GOMEZ, 'DON'T WORRY' WRITTEN BY TIM HEALY & 'THE 1975' WRITTEN BY GEORGE DANIEL, MATTHEW HEALY & GRETA THUNBERG." The credits on the page currently (and on the page I discovered on the 23rd) claim to be sourced from the "inlay cover", while clearly not matching the credits actually given on the inlay cover. If my findings are discounted by some different release of the album with different liner notes included, I would be eager to see them.

The credits as they are on here bear a suspicious similarity to the credits given on this pitchfork article, which were included in a note on previous versions of the page before being axed from the sources in later revisions. These credits differ from the liner notes most radically in that they credit band members Adam Hann and Ross MacDonald as writers alongside Daniel and M. Healy, along with a few additional credits given for samples/interpolations on "Tonight", "Shiny Collarbone", and "Bagsy Not in Net" and the addition of the band members as writers on "Don't Worry". Though possibly more "accurate" in some aspects, this article is, notably, not the liner notes, at least anywhere I've seen, and its contents being noted as such is erroneous.

What complicates the matter even further is that another distinct set can be found at another reputable source, this time the band’s publisher, BMI, whose repertoire is publicly searchable. One night spent searching on my own part on the BMI repertoire revealed this. As with Pitchfork, most of the tracks credit the four members of the band as writers, and additional credits are given to sampled/interpolated writers— in fact, even more sampled writers are credited than on Pitchfork. The entry for “Tonight” adds credits for Lorraine Feather (the co-writer of the Hiroshi Sato song), Barrett Strong, and Norman Whitfield (the latter two co-writers of that blatant Temptations sample). The repertoire’s depiction is also interesting for what additional writers it doesn’t credit: there’s no listing of a song called “The 1975” co-written by Thunberg anywhere, only the one written by the band. “Don’t Worry” actually is in the repertoire, but its writing is also credited exclusively to the band. Also, “Shiny Collarbone” is credited only to Daniel, M. Healy, and Cutty Ranks, as opposed to Pitchfork’s crediting of the whole band and Cutty Ranks.

These credits are also, I hate to say it, not the liner notes. Which comes back to the issue posed here: which do we go with? I personally feel uncomfortable picking and choosing from whichever seems “most correct” on a song-by-song basis, which is why in my own edit I put the credits as they appeared in the liner notes along with an extensive note describing the writing credits as they appeared in other sources (which has apparently been maintained). I think all sets have some degree of truth to them and deserve to be shown.

I appreciate the changes made to the “Samples” section I added— I was thinking that the writing credits I put there might have cluttered it a bit, and it is correct that they’re uncredited everywhere aside from interviews. Were it up to me, that bit would remain as is.

Thanks for reading. Again, if I'm noticeably wrong about something or have missed anything, please let me know. SomethingOfYore (talk) 14:36, 25 February 2021 (UTC)SomethingOfYore
 * Thank you for taking it to the talk page! I agree, this is a very confusing circumstance. I am the one who removed them. I am not sure what version the person in the YouTube video has (I am guessing it's this one). I am going off of this one, which includes the foldout posters for the songs (here is an example). My assumption is that "writer" and "lyricist" are used interchangeably by the band. Once again, I am just assuming, but based on my research bringing their articles to GA status, it appears almost 100% likely that Healy and Daniel are the only members who write the lyrics. Hann and MacDonald are credited as "writers", but I believe this is more about composing the song's themselves, not the lyrics. I have no way to prove this though. I think this is why there are so many different versions. But I am just going off the copy that I own.  Gia co bbe  talk 17:08, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Genres
I can't believe I have to explain why sourced genres should be included in the infobox. There are two sources for experimental and one source for pop, rock, and electropop. That's not a big difference. I say we list experimental first and the three genres after that. Why is that such a big problem? Bowling is life (talk) 00:28, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for taking it to the talk page, I honestly appreciate your dedication to the article and I'd much rather have a constructive dialogue and be able to talk this out. There are four sources that deem it experimental. If we include Fitzmaurice's review (one critic's opinion), then we'd also have to include synth-pop, techno, indie-pop, folk, art rock, nu metal, jungle, Britpop, lo-fi house, rock, ambient music, etc., since those all have at least one source. I'd be happy to work with you and find more sources to build a consensus, but I'm sure you can see the issue with giving undue weight to one reviewer. This album is stylistically all over the place (and the reviews reflect that, lol).  Gia co bbe  talk 00:41, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I didn't realize what I added was already in the article. I also didn't realize how many other genres were sourced in the article. Plus, my argument sounds illogical. Sorry, for the edit war, I was wrong. I can't really work on this with you right now, but maybe later on a day where I have less going on. I do feel more genres other than just experimental should be listed. With this being in the process of becoming a Good Article, a consensus should probably be reached on the genres. I would be glad to help reach a consensus with the genres when I have more time. Reaching a consensus on the genres won't be easy per the reasons you stated. Reading the music section of the article makes my head spin. Lol. But maybe other broad genres this album may be described as such as rock, pop, electronic, and folk should be included, if we find more sources for them. Bowling is life (talk) 00:53, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Dude no worries! I can totally see your perspective. Just hit me up on my talk page when you got time! We'll plan out something.  Gia co bbe  talk 18:21, 24 March 2021 (UTC)