Talk:Nutmeg

Nutmeg Butter
I think that the bit about nutmeg butter is directly copied from another page. https://www.healthbenefitstimes.com/nutmeg-butter/#:~:text=Nutmeg%20butter%20is%20being%20extracted%20from%20nutmegs.&text=About%2075%20percent%20is%20trimyristin,palm%20oil%20or%20cottonseed%20oil. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snow pea lover (talk • contribs) 03:39, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

can species-1-be hidn pl?
-----Please note, I have &#91;&#91;Repetitive Strain Injury&#93;&#93; and find typing very hard. I use a form of shorthand, which may be difficult to understand. I can be contacted through MSN (sven70) or Skype (sven0921) if my meaning is unclear. (talk) 09:10, 15 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Are you asking for Myristica acsmithii to be hidden? If not, I'm unsure of your meaning. If so, maybe it's because you think it isn't a real species. It is, it just isn't the usual to have initials in a scientific name. Albert Charles Smith was a contemporary botanist to the species author. Here is some evidence that it's real in the following two references; hopefully this is helpful - Hamamelis (talk) 13:43, 15 July 2010 (UTC) :
 * I think the very very long list of 'selected' Myristica species could stand to be collapsed by default. That could be what Sven70 was talking about, I'm not sure. It would also be possible to give the Myristica genus its own article, and deal only with commercially significant species of 'nutmeg' here. --Eloil (talk) 02:21, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I've collapsed the list and merged the section with 'Propagation' to give 'Botany and cultivation'. I think the article is more readable now that you don't need to scroll past that huge list right after the intro, and it's still right there for the interested reader to access. --Eloil (talk) 17:10, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Illegal in Oman and Saudi Arabia?
According to Erowid, nutmeg is illegal to import, possibly illegal to possess, and is confiscated by police if found, in Oman and Saudi Arabia. If anyone can find more reliable sources - I'm guessing Erowid, as fantastic a site as it is, doesn't count as one - perhaps this should be covered in this article? Xmoogle (talk) 15:29, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

According to [Bureau Veritas] it is banned from import into Saudi Arabia. Does this count as a legitimate source? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Realizar (talk • contribs) 10:17, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Growing wild in Penang?
I changed:
 * especially Penang, where the trees are native within untamed areas

to:
 * especially Penang, where the trees grow wild within untamed areascitation needed

(Emphasis added.)

It's native to the Banda islands - if it had been available from Penang, getting to Banda wouldn't have been a big deal. From the form of the sentence, I'm guessing the intended meaning was "grow wild" - but that too needs a source. --Chriswaterguy talk 00:47, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Confused
This is quite confused. Is the page about nutmeg, Myristica fragrans, or is it about the genus Myristica. There should really be two separate pages. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:34, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Questions about Article subtitle "Essential Oils"
The contributor (as of April 1, 2014) states: "The essential oil obtained by steam distillation of ground nutmeg is widely used in the perfumery and pharmaceutical industries.. I'm changing this to include the "duh" factor: The essential oil thus obtained is highly valued for its aroma and finds use in diverse sectors of the flavoring and fragrancing industries. This volatile fraction typically contains 60-80% d-camphene by weight, as well as quantities of d-pinene, limonene, d-borneol, l-terpineol, geraniol, safrol, and myristicin." << This sentence and its source need further investigation as none of the components listed can account for the characteristic aroma of nutmeg or mace. A GC/MS chromatogram of Indonesian nutmeg oil cites eugenol and isoeugenol as the two highest percentage components, which makes far more olfactory sense. I refer to Figure 4 in this publication: ''Analysis of Essential Oil Compounds Using Retention Time Locked Methods and Retention Time Databases Application Food and Flavors'' © Agilent Technologies, Inc. 2002 cp.chem.agilent.com/Library/applications/5988-6530EN.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mykstor (talk • contribs) 00:50, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Article does not link to German (Muskatnuss)?
why can this article not be linked to the German "Muskatnuss"? The German wiki article (Muskatnussbaum) does link to all other languages though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikibal Lector (talk • contribs) 05:33, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Split made
Almost all the article was about the spice called "nutmeg". The lead section did not correspond to this, since it began by identifying "nutmeg" with the genus and then with a particular species. The article should be about the spice, without a taxobox, and there should be articles on the genus and species. I have moved appropriate material to the articles Myristica and Myristica fragrans and revised the lead accordingly. Peter coxhead (talk) 08:11, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

"Nutmeg is usually used in powdered form and to get high" -- meaningless, possibly misleading statement
The article states that "nutmeg is usually used in powdered form", but this is fact typical of most spices used in the kitchen and is misleading as it indirectly suggests that the spice is usually sold in powdered form. In Germany, for example, it is readily available in nut form and is easily grated as needed when cooking. It could be argued (source?) that used this way, its flavour and pungency are better preserved until time of application.

178.5.233.66 (talk) 18:36, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

That would be an interesting thing to expand on in the article -- in the US, it's quite rare to see it in whole form except in fancy gourmet shops and nutmeg graters aren't really a thing. I miss my German nutmeg grater! SarahTheEntwife (talk) 19:57, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Nutmeg is available in nut form in the US. The statement is, "Nutmeg is usually used in powdered form". This is true. Some spices are normally used whole (bay leaf); others whole or powdered (cloves, peppercorns).User-duck (talk) 15:42, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

"Ground nutmeg is also smoked in India." - Smoked like fish, or smoked like tobacco? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.116.101 (talk) 00:37, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Case reports as history
Moving this section here for discussion. It contains weak or no significant sourcing. --Zefr (talk) 01:26, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Peter Stafford's Psychedelics Encyclopedia quotes an 1883 report from Mumbai noting that "the Hindus of West India take nutmeg as an intoxicant", and records that the spice has been used for centuries as a form of snuff in rural eastern Indonesia and India, later seeing the ground seed mixed with betel and other kinds of snuff. In 1829, the Czech physiologist Jan Evangelista Purkinje ingested three ground nutmegs with a glass of wine and recorded headaches, nausea, hallucinations, and a sense of euphoria that lasted for several days.

Swiss chemist Albert Hofmann, who discovered LSD, and Harvard ethnobotanist Richard Evans Schultes documented reports of nutmeg's use as an intoxicant by students, prisoners, sailors, alcoholics, and marijuana smokers. In his autobiography, Malcolm X writes about taking nutmeg and other "semi-drugs" while serving time in prison in order to help ease the harsh effects of kicking his addiction to heroin.

The Angewandte Chemie International Edition records the use of nutmeg as an intoxicant in the United States in the post-World War II period, notably among young people, bohemians, and prisoners. A 1966 New York Times piece named it along with morning glory seeds, diet aids, cleaning fluids, cough medicine, and other substances as "alternative highs" on college campuses.

Split made invalid
If we are going to say that nutmeg is only produced by Myristica fragrans, which the lead has been changed to say, then there probably shouldn't be two articles. Is there a source for the view that material from other species isn't "nutmeg" but an "adulterant"? Peter coxhead (talk) 05:58, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I would like this article to focus on "nutmeg" and "mace", the spices. (There does not seem to be enough material to warrant a separate article for "mace".) The Encyclopædia Britannica source focuses on nutmeg produced from Myristica fragrans and the plant, but does say "The name nutmeg is also applied in different countries to other fruits or seeds". I changed the lead to be more in line with the reference. The edit started out making a distinct section for mace. I ended up doing some reorganizing. I have not finished. I will make another attempt at the lead and reorganizing the article. I now see sections for "Common nutmeg" and "Mace". Concerning "adulteration", I tried to keep the entire content of the article, uncited or not. I just found the following site: http://www.clovegarden.com/ingred/sp_nutmegz.html which states, "There are two other members of genus Myristica that are used commercially - both as adulterants to true nutmeg". Also this site appears to be the source of several other uncited statements. Should the "Botany and cultivation" section be removed or moved to Myristica fragrans? Personally, I think it belongs in this article, might be too technical but is very close to ideal.
 * I would suggest renaming the article to "nutmeg (spice)" to help clarify the scope of the article. It is probably not worth the effort.
 * Thanks for the comments.User-duck (talk) 15:42, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Culinary uses
Several of the examples listed under "Culinary uses" are uses of the fleshy part of the fruit. I believe this is outside the intended scope of this article.User-duck (talk) 23:49, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree and segregated the spice uses from the rarer fruit applications. There isn't much content and only weak sources for use of the fruit, mainly in Indonesian cuisine. --Zefr (talk) 01:10, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * There was another use of the fruit. Please leave Mace bold. The Mace (spice) redirect now points to this section.User-duck (talk) 04:34, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Toxocity
From the article "In low doses, nutmeg produces no noticeable physiological or neurological response, but in large doses, raw nutmeg has psychoactive effects".

That sounds helpful, but it's not, because high and low doses simply aren't defined, so it's of no use at all..

From context, it would be assumed that "low dose" refers to the amounts used in recipes. Nobody is getting high from eggnog and pumpkin pie. The amount of nutmeg normally used in the psychoactive accounts is three nutmegs, and I'll guess that half of that amount might be sufficient to produce some effect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.116.101 (talk) 00:42, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

I agree with this also in the pregnancy section--any ill effects are at high doses, and without saying how much it's fear mongering. The linked source makes a very general claim with no additional details or citation either67.85.132.138 (talk) 18:19, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

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History section
This section is super Eurocentric, even though some of the first outside awareness of nutmeg was from China. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rick.heli (talk • contribs) 19:31, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

isnt it a fallacy?
"Rarely, nutmeg overdose causes death, especially if the nutmeg is combined with other drugs. Incidents of fatal poisoning from nutmeg and myristicin individually are uncommon." K1Y053 (talk) 09:57, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Traditional Chinese Medicine
— Assignment last updated by SienaTCM (talk) 23:03, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Sources for Traditional Chinese Medicine
Bibliography


 * Ashokkumar, Simal‐Gandara, J., Murugan, M., Dhanya, M. K., & Pandian, A. (2022). Nutmeg (Myristica fragrans Houtt.) essential oil: A review on its composition, biological, and pharmacological activities. Phytotherapy Research, 36(7), 2839–2851. https://doi.org/10.1002/ptr.7491
 * This is a peer reviewed scientific journal therefore it should be a reliable source. It covers the overall topic in significant depth, therefore it is helpful in establishing notability.
 * Jing-Nuan Wu. (2005). An Illustrated Chinese Materia Medica. Oxford University Press.
 * This is a book published by a university press, therefore it should be a reliable source. It dedicates a page to the topic, so we can establish notability.
 * Abourashed, & El-Alfy, A. T. (2016). Chemical diversity and pharmacological significance of the secondary metabolites of nutmeg (Myristica fragrans Houtt.). Phytochemistry Reviews, 15(6), 1035–1056. https://doi.org/10.1007/s11101-016-9469-x
 * This is a peer reviewed scholarly journal therefore it should be a reliable source. It covers the topic in significant depth, therefore it is helpful in establishing notability.

Sienasaint13 (talk) 19:05, 4 December 2022 (UTC)