Talk:Peter Phillips

Untitled
Should this be moved to Peter Phillips? ugen64 23:19, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)
 * I guess the middle names were for disambiguation purposes... ugen64 23:19, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)

"Peter is the first grandson of a British monarch not to hold a title." – What is meant by title here? What about, for example, The Honourable Gerald Lascelles? I have never thought "The Honourable" to be a title. Semantics, of course, but the sentence had me confused. -- Jao 17:36, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * Technically, you're right. "The Honourable" is an honorific prefix, not a title, but most people don't know that. TysK 22:44, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I have reomved Peter is the first grandson of a British monarch not to hold a title. as it is not true because he is a female line descendent and is therefore not entitled to one. Although as a courtesy his grandmother offered to create him a Prince, however his mother did not want this. Mac Domhnaill 21:39, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Absolutely he is entitled to a title. His mother chose not to exercise this right for either of her children. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.61.65.60 (talk) 15:47, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Referring to Mac Domhnaill's comment, absolutely he is entitled to a title. His mother chose not to exercise this right for either of her children. Ben Furnival 21:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC) —Preceding undated comment added at 15:52, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Ben Furnival is right: His mother decided that they would not have a title. The fact that he is descended from a female line has nothing to do with it. Eventer —Preceding undated comment added at 02:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

The fact that he is descended from a female line has everything to do with why he isn't "entitled" to a title, if you mean "entitled" in the sense of having one simply because of birth. Except in rare situations (women who are peers in their own right), you can only inherit a title through your father, even if your mother is a princess. He is only "entitled" to a title in the sense that nothing would prevent him from holding one if the Queen wanted to give him one. But his not a "right" that his mother could "exercise"; as a child with a father who holds no title whatsoever he has absolutely no "right" to hold a title.It's completely an issue of semantics. TysK 22:44, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality
Surely the neutrality of this article is disputed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.67.153.31 (talk) 11:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

NPOV?
Am with agreement with the above, this does not seem NPOV but not bring an expert on the person in question I don't feel I have the wherewithall to edit it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.131.80.62 (talk) 14:52, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * This article is not merely unsourced and highly biased, but poorly written and tabloid in style and content. It needs severe fixing. FearÉIREANN [[Image:Map of Ireland's capitals.png|15px]]\(caint)|undefined 18:18, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. — Mir  l   e   n   18:02, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Titles in Great Britain go through the male line. For example, the son of a Prince is a Prince, but the son of a Princess is Mr. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.105.129.96 (talk) 22:16, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

The lack of title
"Peter is the first grandson of a British monarch not to hold a title." Absolutely he is entitled to a title. His mother chose not to exercise this right for either of her children. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Benfurnival (talk • contribs) 15:50, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

It seems a bit suspicious to call him the Queen's favorite grandson, considering the bond she has with William, who will in all likelihood one day succeed to the throne. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.121.194.165 (talk) 23:13, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

The unsigned comment above is wrong. As a decendent in the female line through his mother, he has no automatic 'right' to a title of any sort. He could, however, have been bestowed a 'grace and favour' title from his grandmother, the Queen, who offered one but his mother declined and Her Majesty honoured her daughter's wishes and did not grant titles through letters patent to either of the Princess Royal's children. CanadianMist 16:44, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

You are correct. Letter Patent issued in 1917 laid down rules for royal titles. It stated that the children of the sovereign and male-line grandchildren who be entitled to the title of prince or princess with the personal attribute of royal highness. Male-line great grandchildren (with expection of eldest son of the eldest of sons of the Prince of Wales who would be a royal highness/prince) would would styled as the children of dukes. It made no mention of female-line descendants mainly because at time it was usual for princess to marry into other royal houses and there children would bear there father titles. Consquently, female descendant's have no automatic right to a title. In some cases special provision have been made to ensure they get one, for example, Princess Margaret husband was created an Earl and her children bear titles attached to that rank. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.141.216.154 (talk) 17:20, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Wedding
According to the Telegraph, the wedding date for the ceremony is set in May at St George's chapel in Windsor. It's seems that Peter will renounce his place in the line of succession. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/02/17/dp1701.xml —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.70.36.63 (talk) 15:20, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * "Mandrake" is the society gossip section of The Daily Telegraph. While it's most likely true, it is still rumour. We need to wait until it is officially announced.--UpDown (talk) 18:06, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Born a commoner sentence
I question the statement "Phillips is therefore the first royal baby to be born a commoner, having not even a courtesy title, for more than 500 years." Both Princess Alexandra's children, who are older than Phillips, were born without titles. Their father was the younger son of an earl and was later knighted, but his titles (Hon. and Sir) were not heritable. If, as it seems, we're calling female-line children "royal babies," then James and Marina Ogilvy precede Phillips as far as being royal babies without titles is concerned.68.72.88.11 (talk) 17:46, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That is a good point. I will change the wording to grandchild of a monarch, which is what I think it is referring to.--UpDown (talk) 17:56, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you, UpDown. However, I am going to raise a perennially-difficult subject for royals fans: please note: merely holding a title does NOT mean that you are not a commoner. Only peers and some royals can claim that they are not commoners (and there is some serious dispute about the commoner status of royals who are not actually the monarch). Children of peers, holding mere courtesy titles, ARE commoners.  Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a dream world.  Diana was a commoner. I know you Diana fans don't want to believe that, but courtesy titles for little earls' daughters mean absolutely nothing. Period.  68.72.94.110 (talk) 23:42, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I am aware of that, and am quite unsure who your sentence "you Diana fans don't want to believe that" is aimed. You sound quite hostile in your language, and I'd recommend you change this in the future. The sentence in the article reads "Phillips was therefore the first legitimate grandchild of a monarch to be born a commoner, having not even a courtesy style, for more than 500" - please note the "having not even a courtesy style".--UpDown (talk) 07:03, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

"No date for the wedding has been officially announced"
Now that unofficial (reliable?) sources are popping up, that does not of course change the fact that we have no official source. But what are we waiting for, exactly? Will Buckingham Palace ever say something about the marriage of two commoners? How related do you have to be to the Queen for your wedding to be officially considered a royal one? -- Jao (talk) 18:12, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I know, I am thinking that bearing in mind they are getting married next month (in the press is correct), that it must be announced soon!! I would have thought it will be announced, as after all the Palace announced their engagement. Also, on the wedding day Windsor Castle will I guess be closed to the public, which I would have thought would be announced?--UpDown (talk) 16:29, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was move. JPG-GR (talk) 18:18, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Peter Mark Andrew Phillips → Peter Phillips — Since Peter Phillips has redirected here since July 2007, there is no longer any need to use his full name for disambiguation purposes, so I suggest the article should be moved to Peter Phillips, the name he is commonly known by —SteveRwanda (talk) 17:02, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Support - per nomination. SteveRwanda (talk) 17:03, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Support - per nomination. I've been meaning to suggest this for a while! --UpDown (talk) 17:31, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Support heartily DBD 17:52, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Support as something that should have been done when Peter Phillips was moved to Peter Phillips (disambiguation) – but better late than never. -- Jao (talk) 18:10, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Support - especially now that his wife is at Autumn Phillips. --Cazo3788 (talk) 18:23, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Support per nominator.  Milk Float  09:19, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Support - per nomination. Morhange (talk) 17:32, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Residence
It seems improbable that he commutes from Gatcombe Park to Edinburgh. And are the lengths of his pre-marital relationships really encyclopedic?  Milk Float  13:47, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep meaning to edit where he lives, he has flats in Edinburgh and London and the cottage. I'll change this with ref soon. I would argue that his previous relationships are encyclopedic, as the details of a royal's life are what makes them notable.--UpDown (talk) 17:53, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Daughter
Very well, we'll wait for an official annoucement. GoodDay (talk) 16:23, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Mountbatten-Windsor family
He is related to the Mountbatten-Windsor through female line and as such, is not a member. His family is the Phillipses. Just like The Queen's family is Windsor and not Bowes-Lyon. She is also, through marriage, a member of the Mountbatten family started by Prince Philip when he adopted that name.. I think the M-W family category should be removed from this article. Kowalmistrz (talk) 14:49, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Contradiction?
' In March 2012, he left RBS to take on a role as managing director at SEL UK.' and 'They now live in London where he continues to work for the bank.', a contradiction? 31.52.254.104 (talk) 13:25, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

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 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20131020180635/http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page3081.asp to http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page3081.asp
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Names
Is there a deep meaning behind why his daughters both have geography-based names? --47.61.144.63 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:29, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:21, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Queen Elizabeth, Prince Philip, and grandchildren (11440082454) (cropped1).jpg

Requested move 14 June 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. Article title commonality is not a PT criterion. No evidence this fails WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. --  JHunterJ (talk) 13:12, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

– Given the substantial commonality of this name, I doubt there can be a primary topic, much less an individual known only for being a royal far outside of the line of succession. Also, I'm not picky about the title to which the article on the royal is moved; it's just not primary. BD2412 T 21:27, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Peter Phillips → Peter Phillips (British royal family)
 * Peter Phillips (disambiguation) → Peter Phillips
 * There are a lot of notable namesakes indeed but having done a quick Google search, I do not see any indication of this not being the primary topic. Virtually every hit refers to this Peter Phillips. Google Books search is less conclusive since it keeps bringing up books written by a Peter Phillips. Am I missing some evidence of this not being the primary topic? Surtsicna (talk) 22:41, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Page views are only one factor in determining a primary topic. Long-term significance is also important, for which a person with nothing to their name but being a lower-level royal has less than those who became notable on the strength of their various achievements. BD2412  T 02:19, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I did not mention page views. I also do not think long-term significance is based on the strength of achievements. I wonder if Google Books search could shed light on the long-term significance aspect. Unfortunately, I cannot get it to show books mentioning men called Peter Phillips instead of books written by men called Peter Phillips. Surtsicna (talk) 09:05, 16 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Common name, sure, but that in of itself has no bearing on WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. This page averages 1,888 views per day, and the only Peter Phillips that has an average higher than double digits is Pete Rock, who is not known as Peter Phillips (I'm a fan of his music and didn't know that was his real name until just now). No evidence this fails WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Nohomersryan (talk) 02:12, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Support. Page views aren't everything. #15 on the line of succession to the British throne might get more page views now due to gossip news, but not in a long term view. For instance Peter Phillips (politician) who is currently opposition leader and held various posts as minister will probably be more significant in 100 years.--Bob not snob (talk) 06:59, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Support fails PT, why even discuss? In ictu oculi (talk) 12:22, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment. I'm not convinced he isn't the primary topic. But even if it is renamed we need a better disambiguator than the proposed one. He is not a British royal family! -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:48, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Support per nomination. "Peter Phillips"/"Peter Philips" is a common name, with 15 entries listed at the Peter Phillips (disambiguation) page. If other disambiguating options are desired, the fact that the sole reason for subject's notability is his standing as the Queen's grandson, may well be reflected in his parenthetical qualifier — Peter Phillips (grandson of Queen Elizabeth II) or the slightly shorter Peter Phillips (grandson of Elizabeth II). —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 19:21, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose - as this Peter Phillips, is the primary topic. GoodDay (talk) 23:16, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose currently none of the other Peter Phillips on the disambiguation topic are as well-known. Referring to Bob not snob's comment - if Peter Phillips (politician) becomes more significant then this can be revisited but page names are fluid for a reason and generally reflect current and not future importance.--Elinor.Dashwood (talk) 12:11, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose he is the primary topic, despite how common his name may be.  Calidum   15:41, 18 June 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Children and WP:BLPNAME
There's no need to include the names and birthday's of his children here. They're both minors and very minor royals asnd they're not notable in their own right. Appearing on the balcony and waving every now and again, or appearing in the odd dubious RS gossip/royal fanboi article isn't enough to justify ignoring BLPNAME. Unbh (talk) 05:48, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Unbh, Both articles must be reverted back to their previous version from early July, as that was the stable version, not the current version that you're trying to forcefully submit. Not to mention that WP:OTHER is used as an argument in deletion discussions; I’m not trying to establish notability here. What I’m stating is that these children are not entirely private individuals. They are in the line of succession to the British throne. And, WP:BLPNAME does not need to be always implemented. Check the article on Beyoncé for example, which lists the name of all her children. WP:BLPNAME states that "When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed, such as in certain court cases or occupations, it is often preferable to omit it, especially when doing so does not result in a significant loss of context." The name of these children has been widely disseminated as is evident from a simple search on the Internet and from the fact that they are listed on the royal family's website as well. So there is no violation of privacy here. Keivan.f  Talk 08:48, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 * They are the Queen's great-granddaughters. There's no harm in naming them.  Peter Ormond &#128172;  09:23, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:22, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Peter Phillips eldest son of Princess Anne and grandson of Queen Elizabeth. jpg.png

"Isla Phillips" listed at Redirects for discussion
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"Savannah Phillips" listed at Redirects for discussion
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Nomination of Isla Phillips for deletion
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