Talk:Plano Senior High School

Failed GA
This is a fantastic article, but at the moment it fails to meet the good article criteria because the use of Image:PSHS wins 2006 5A state basketball championship.jpg doesn't satisfy Fair use requirements. Please read the template tag that was added to the image page: it makes it quite clear that the uploader should specify the source and provide a written rationale for why each particular use (i.e. the use in this article) satisfies WP:Fair Use. The good news is that the picture is in low resolution, which is a good start for satisfying the requirements!

So, the next step will be adding in source information. Then you need to write up a Fair Use rationale on the image description page - for that to work, the use in the article actually has to be Fair Use, which I'm not sure it is at the moment. Fair use specifies that TV screen shots are only Fair Use if used for critical commentary on the television programme, not the event described in it. Just including it in the article with a bland caption to show the victorious team isn't going to cut it; "PSHS's 2006 5A state basketball championship victory was broadcast throughout the USA/in Texas/wherever by the Such-and-Such Channel" would be better; if you could put in "and was watched by X million people" you'd be on very strong ground! Once sorted, you need to explain on the image description page, after your source info, that yes, indeed it is a low resolution screenshot of a TV programme, that it is being used in the Plano Senior High School article (be explicit!) to comment critically on the TV programme in question, namely the broadcast of PSHS's state championship game victory in 2006, and therefore you believe it satisfies the requirements for Fair Use.

However - Fair Use guidelines specify that if you can find a better licenced image (GFDL/PD etc) then use that instead! Is there nobody in Plano you can get hold of who took some photos of the match/the team and would be willing to release them under a suitable licence?

All the other Good Article criteria appear to have been met easily. Sort this Fair Use problem out, renominate it, and next time round it'll be a dead cert to pass, I'm sure! Kudos to all those who have invested time and effort editing this article :-) TheGrappler 16:30, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah, I wasn't the one to nom for GA. I definitely see what you mean here though. Last time I worked on a GA/FA my buddy  did all of the fair use rationales so I almost forgot about it!  I will take care of this post haste and re-nom soon.  The snapshot of the TV program was sort of a stop-gap, admittedly, because I don't have much contact with the school anymore.  Therefore, I don't have much of a way to get GFDL pictures from the people who go there.  As I said, I'll take care of this immediately!  Thanks for the detailed explanation! &mdash; Scm83x hook 'em 21:47, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Good work! And User:Kafziel obviously agrees, having put this up as GA now. I can imagine getting this on the main page at some point, there's plenty of quality here. TheGrappler 20:59, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Review
I've taken a look at the article and especially the Lead at the request of User:Scm83x. The History section is really smooth now! It reads extremely well and is full of interesting facts. The only bumps are in the last part, "Plano Senior High School", which needs rounding off, as the html comment suggests. Also, the firm of Jarvis, Putty, & Jarvis seems to have copped an over-emphatic position. About the Lead: I do appreciate the good intentions behind its second paragraph, which makes both the standard US high school system and Plano's departure from it clearer to the international reader. But I don't really think that needs to be done in the Lead. The first sentence already says the school serves eleventh and twelfth graders. The Lead is supposed to be the article in little — to summarize it — rather than explain a particular point that is not self-evidently a major fact about the school. (When put into perspective further down, it is an important fact, it turns out, but coming at the reader at this early stage it hardly looks it.) I have proposed an alternative Lead, that summarizes the history instead. (It doesn't contain any info from "Plano Senior High School", as I found that section problematic; please add something from that when it's been fixed up.) It's more of a structural sketch for a Lead, I hope somebody polishes it; alternatively, of course, feel free to revert. The high school versus senior high school explanation has been moved to the "Plano Senior High School" section. I feel I've inserted it a bit amateurishly there, as the whole US school system is so exotic to me, so I hope somebody can smooth the seams, if you decide to leave it there. A nit: I may have said this before, but could we please not have the break for lunch? What school doesn't break for lunch? Bishonen | talk 18:59, 29 May 2006 (UTC).
 * A side note, Scm has asked me to help out with any FAC this article ends up going through. I can safely say I would vote support, and I would try to fix any issues opposers bring up. Staxringold talkcontribs 19:40, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Question
Does this school have a "dual-enrollment" program with area homeschoolers? Also, do students there attend local community college or 4-year college while in high school? (Homeschoolers in some area also take some courses/school-sponsored extracurricular activities offered by the school system. Also, many high schools have arrangments with colleges to offer some college classes to high school students.)  If the answer to either question is "yes", it should be included in the article somewhere.... --Tim4christ17 08:17, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

No, there is no dual-enrollment for homeschoolers. Next year a program is being added for students to take classes at the nearby Collin County Community College, but it is fledgling and in its infancy, highly unlikely to get any attention at all due to the school's AP course offerings. The teachers at PSHS are much better and more experienced than those at CCCC (many of them dating back to when the campus was built in 1976), and being that the program has yet to be launched I doubt that it warrants any mention at all.

Wow
This is probably the best school article in all of WP. Kudos (coming from someone who usually hates school articles.) Paul 04:48, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The State Championship Academic Decathlon Picture
There is a picture of the 2006 State Championship Basketball team on this site. In that same year the Plano Senior High Academic Decathlon team captured the state title for the first time in 23 years of competition and went on to rank second in the nation out of a field of over 2300 teams. I believe that a picture of the Academic Decathlon team is deserving of a place on this page due to the team's achievement and the obvious precedent for such inclusions set immediately above the space in question. If there are any format or licensing issues that you would like for me to attend to I would be more than happy to. 2006 was a landmark year for Plano Senior High School; the first basketball state championship, the first academic decathlon state championship, and the comeback that the football team made after 2 consecutive disappointing seasons. I believe that both state championship teams deserve equal recognition, just as Dr. Dean decided they both deserved equal recognition when he had a banner made for the front of the campus announcing the victory of the two aformentioned teams.Mugginator 06:54, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The image needs to be an official image of the entire team and their sponsors, not a poor quality snapshot prominently featuring the Wikipedian who is constantly adding it back to the article. Once an image like this can be found, it may be added. &mdash; Scm83x hook 'em 08:45, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, you can ask for a picture of the full team, but it doesn't make sense to want an official image. Virtually any official school image, made in modern times, is going to be unuseable for copyright reasons.  Almost any useable picture, will be done "unofficially" by a Wikipedian.  Incidently, the basketball image, which was mentioned should go, as this article isn't about the TV broadcast, and fairuse doesn't apply. --Rob 09:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Basketball image issue was resolved in talk above here. Image from USAD site has been added to the page.  The team, as you can see, consisted of nine persons, not three.  The image illustrates the object in question, the 2006 AcDec team and specifically their 2nd place finish at nationals.  As far as is known, there does not exist an image that could reproduce this situation (the team at nationals accepting their trophy), unless one of the members were a Wikipedian and had a formal shot of all nine team members and their sponsors...  Mr. Turner, we know you were on the team; don't be that guy.  Find a picture as described and upload it.  We aren't in the business of self-promotion. &mdash; Scm83x hook 'em 09:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't trying to self promote, if I had an image as clear as the one that the USAD took of the entire team I would have posted it but I didn't want to abuse fair use by pulling one directly from their site. I am pleased with the picture that you have decided to post and thank you for your time in addressing the issue. Mugginator 19:30, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Concern about AP Test Claim
The claim that "Plano administers more Advanced Placement tests each year than any other school west of the Mississippi River and all but one school in the United States" is uncited, and I can't find a source that confirms it. Texas Education Agency data confirm that Plano Senior High administered the most AP exams in Texas in 2004 (2090 exams according the the TEA). The only other school to administer more than 2000 exams in Texas was Plano West Senior High, with <2015 exams (data was masked). Actually, according to Plano's data, those numbers should be 2099 and 2007 exams, respectively.

The best way to confirm the claim would be to query the College Board, but I don't think they can release the data due to privacy reasons. Many schools list the number of AP exams administered yearly on their school profiles, and many of those schools have said profiles available on the Internet. However, there's no easy way to aggregate that information.

With all that said, it would be easiest if whoever first put forward that claim could find their original source and cite it. Otherwise, I'm not sure what would be best to do. I'm still new at this Wikipedia editing thing. --Xanmedi 15:13, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

New Campus Section
I added a Campus section to the article, but I still have some concerns about it.

1. Verifiable source is nonexistent. I wrote this section from memory and by referring to a map (linked below). I'll have to see if I can find a brochure or article or something that describes the campus. If somebody else finds one, it'll be much appreciated.

2. It's still unpolished. In particular, please make changes to content, organization, and/or style if you think they'll help.

3. I think a map would be helpful. There's a map on Plano's website, but I'm not sure what to do about fair use and all that. If somebody who knows what they're doing can help with that, I think the section would be much more understandable.

--Xanmedi 18:51, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


 * In all actuality, the section is rather, what I would call, "crufty". It adds nothing of hard substance to the article and is simply a rough recitation of information that is really rather unimportant to 99% of the readers of this article.  What goes on in Building B is really of little consequence to anyone except students, who have other avenues of discovering such information.  Adding information like this to school articles is actually seen as a general lowering of their quality because it adds trivial information to the article, making it appear as though the school has to reach to find something important enough to write about.  The important aspect of the campus (that it is laid out like a junior college, with six buildings and a pond) has already been mentioned and there is no need for any more information on it.  Adding it is simply grasping at straws when this article clearly needs no help to show the school's importance. &mdash; Scm83x hook 'em 21:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Alright, works for me. You know more about this stuff than me, anyways. --Xanmedi 22:13, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

School/Fight Song?
Should we include the lyrics to the school and fight song? I didn't want to compromise the FA status, so I'd like a consensus before adding it. -Kevin 03:50, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * No. They're under copyright. &mdash; Scm83x hook 'em 13:35, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

just thought I would help out
I made that line visible for them being the TFA state champions. I want to help out with all of the PISD schools, hopefully to one day have a page for every school in the district. Far off goal though as I am a new editor, so if anyone is willing to help me or maybe guide me I would greatly appreciate it! You can look on my userpage to see what schools I am attending but if your not willing to here it is real quick. Aldridge (no page) wilson (no page) Vines (currently working on) PSHS (just add tidbits everynow and then) HELP ME OUT! plz... Rockinbuddy 01:22, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

NPOV dispute [- History]
Shouldn't this article mention something about the Heroin deaths at PSHS, or the suicides during the 1980's. I am a PSHS alumni, and I respect my school, but we shouldn't whitewash this article without mentioning the stereotype of "Heroin High".

Here is a link to one of the many articles discussing heroin abuse and overdoses at Plano SHS. http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=962460&lastnode_id=0


 * Since the heroin deaths occured in the community as a whole rather than in direct relation to the school, it would not seem pertinent to include in this article. For example, the death of Taylor Hooton at Plano West Senior High was directly linked to steriods which were used in conjunction with school athletics. The information on the heroin deaths would more appropriately belong in the Plano, Texas article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by User: (talk • contribs)


 * Though you can't deny Plano's (the city) heroin problem, please never use everything2 as a source to make your point anywhere... &mdash; Scm83x hook 'em 09:02, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

note on Chris Valetta's link
Minor point: Under "Notable Alumni", Chris Valetta's link goes to the article for "The Apprentice" (instead of the article on "Chris Valetta").

Ap Classes
Plano offers the AP exam for Latin Lit. but I can't find a ref to prove it, if anyone comes across one, could you kindly add it. 96.226.11.50 (talk) 14:25, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Plano actually does not offer the exam for Latin Lit.; they offer the exam for Latin Vergil. However, the whole sentence isn't accurate, and I'll get to fixing that soon.--Kevin (talk) 01:38, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well after extensively researching, I really don't know if what I just said is true. The class profile says it offers a class in "Latin Lit/Virgil," and the PISD course catalog says it offers AP classes in "Latin-Vergil" and "Latin-Horace-Cattlus" (sorry if I butchered the name).  I do go to PSHS, but I don't know about their Latin program.  I'll ask around, but that really won't constitute a reference.  Anyone have any ideas as to what we could do?  --Kevin (talk) 18:39, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

AAAA++++
What a fantastic article! I can't wait to make my school's article a featured article too! GO-PCHS-NJROTC (talk) 00:54, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Athletics vs. academics
Is it the nature of the Wikipedians writing the article, or is it the nature of Plano Senior High School, that more than twice as much text is devoted to athletics as to academics? —Angr If you've written a quality article... 06:33, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a high school in Texas, the students are probably more interested in adding the athletic awards than anything else. Feel free to add whatever references to the school's academic accomplishments you can find. Redrocket (talk) 06:39, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Having gone to high school in Texas myself, I suspect it's not just the students' interest, but the administration as well that puts more emphasis on athletics than academics. —Angr If you've written a quality article... 06:55, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Regardless of size there are two sections for academics, I am merging them into one . putting them in alphabetical order. Moonraker0022 (talk) 04:55, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Heroin crisis in the 90's?
All of my friends went to this school. Several had drug problems. I remember that MTV shot an episode of True Life, I'm a Heroin Addict, filmed in Plano, Texas. All of our parents watched it to see if we were on it. There was a year when several students died of overdoses. From what I understand, an undercover officer even had to penetrate the school. Maybe I read that in the Dallas Morning News, maybe the Dallas Observer, not sure. But the officer just kept quiet and she doodled mushrooms on her shoes and her papers, until she fell in with the kids. I hope this helps! By the way, I joined the Army to get off heroin, and I don't keep in touch with any of my friends who survived. But, I'm sure references could be found somewhere. Sorry for anonymous post, but I'm sure you understand. -Japanther —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.255.213.165 (talk) 14:12, 9 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I kind of wonder why that didn't get into the article. - Denimadept (talk) 16:03, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Being a senior this year, I'm not to familiar with the whole story. Was this concentrated at PSHS itself, at all PISD schools, or the whole city of Plano?  Currently Wikipedia only mentions it in the  Plano page.--Kevin (talk) 18:44, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, if you notice, in the Plano page, it is under the education section, or something like that. Yes I think it deserves at least a mention. Honestly, that is the only thing that I remember about the school. At the time, if memory serves me right, there were two senior high schools, this one and Plano East, which was of similar size. So if the youth culture in general had a problem, clearly a large portion was centered here. -Japanther  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.255.213.165 (talk) 18:53, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If you mention this, you also have to mention the epidemic suicides in the 1980s, which I was really surprised not to see in an article about this school.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.111.56.35 (talk) 16:56, 10 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I clearly remember PSHS being refered to as the Heroin capital. There was also a Time magazine article about both that and the high suicide rate back in the 80's/90's (I graduated in 93).  At the time, Plano East was the school on the poorer side of town, so the more expensive drugs (heroin) were focused on Plano (as it was called at the time).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.179.87.17 (talk) 18:57, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

How did this article get onto the front page?
Is wikipedia so America-centric that articles about inauspicious US high-schools are front-page material?

(90.209.230.17 (talk) 21:06, 9 March 2008 (UTC))
 * The reason articles get on the front page is that they're well written, not the subject matter. Hut 8.5 21:08, 9 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe we could hold a contest on Most Inconsequential Article To Be Featured, then. This would probabaly win.  Vidor (talk) 21:53, 9 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I've seen a discussion like this a few days ago on Talk:ESRB_re-rating_of_The_Elder_Scrolls_IV:_Oblivion. If you fell there is anything that you wish to say that is not yet mentioned there, feel free to do so, otherwise, save your breath. The front-page of Wikipedia features a lot of articles discussing things you were not aware of. This may seem annoying, but I think it's great and offers a chance to learn some more about the world. For me, as a Dutch person, it's not obvious how the U.S. high schools are organised, so who knows, I might like to read a well-written article on one of those! Andreas Willow (talk) 22:38, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Kristin Holt
I think Kristin Holt should be included under "Notable Alumni". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.32.192.33 (talk) 21:00, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Band directors
Don't know if this is significant enough, but Clem did not retire when he stepped down at PSHS. He was head director at Wilson MS for many more years. After Clem stepped down Tom Bennett directed for 2 or 3 years before Charles Forque was hired. Bennett has gone on to a very successful career at the University of Houston. Dlovrien (talk) 21:23, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Perri Reavis – News and traffic reporter currently working at KLTY-FM
Perri Reavis was Denise Stauffer, but married and took her husband's name Reavis and she also took the family name Perri for a first name. She graduated in 1987. perri.reavis@klty.com  She's very nice and you can ask her yourself.
 * So what's your point? John from Idegon (talk) 00:00, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

FAR
There are numerous outdated statements in the article, as well as some uncited text. If these issues can be addressed, a Featured article review can be avoided. To retain FA status, the article should be updated to reflect current data, and cited. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 20:03, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

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Where is this going?
I came back on this article, from a link. There is a lot of material here but its rather dated and shattered? I have made a few changes to modernise the structure and to add a map. Is anyone else watching? --ClemRutter (talk) 13:08, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Patrick Wood Crusius
Add him as a notable alumni. He had been charged with manslaughter with his involvement in the El Paso shooting. Cincinnati resident (talk) 22:07, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Qualifications for a notable alumni list are as follows:
 * Person must meet Wikipedia guidelines for having a biography. This individual does not qualify as he is only known for that one event.
 * Reliable sources must be either in the individual's bio or added here verifying their connection with this institution.
 * Your edit didn't meet either criteria and it must meet both. John from Idegon (talk) 22:16, 6 August 2019 (UTC)