Talk:Politics and sports

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Phong20. Peer reviewers: Wseol19, Jdavies21.

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Sports and politics in Canada
I was disappointed not to see anything about the Maurice Richard riot of 1955, not about the 1972 series against Russia under the Canada section. The Montreal Canadiens are still a symbol of french-canadian identity to this day and some pretty serious historians consider the 1955 riot as one of the starting points of the Quiet Revolution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.34.212.202 (talk) 12:37, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Stick to the topic
If the lead defines the subject as a matter of state policies, then the non-state parties (pro-Tibet protesters, terrorists etc.) should be excluded - unless there is evidence that these parties are funded/backed/organized by a state. Can you say this about Maradona's lucky day?

And, likewise, anything that is included must be tied to a particular state action and properly referenced. England and Wales Cricket Board cancelled a game. Fine. But it's not a matter of state policy unless there is evidence that the state (who? PM? Her Majesty?) intervened directly and pressed the board into submission. If some folks act on their own - is it really state diplomacy? NVO (talk) 20:26, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

OR concerns
Not wanting to upset anyone, as clearly a lot of work has gone into this, but this article flags up some OR issues for me. There are a lot of unsourced assertions which seem to constitute OR:
 * "Going as far back as the 1936 Olympics, Hitler used this as a stage to promote Aryan superiority for Germany with his ideological belief of racial supremacy. The Olympics were used as a method of hardening the German spirit and instilling unity among German youth. It was also believed that sports was a "way to weed out the weak, Jewish, and other undesirables."[1] As a result, many Jews and Gypsies were banned from participating in sporting events." - it is believed is a little weasely. As for the German spirit bit, that is a massive generalisation - who did that? Can somebody confirm that? (If this was in the memorial site ref, that link appears to be broken).
 * "The Olympics is the greatest political usage of sports for diplomatic means." - according to who? It may seem obvious to some, but we really need some authoritative citation of this.
 * "Once again, in 1968, the global stage of the Olympics was used to show the world the plight of the African-American during the civil rights struggle in their home country. The famous Black Power salute was performed by Tommie Smith and John Carlos during the medal ceremony in Mexico City." - It is asserted here that "the Olympics was used to show the world the plight of the African-American during the civil rights struggle" - that's a big accusation, can we get some confirmation si vous plait?

Again, this isn't meant as an insult, but constructive criticism - I don't want to go sticking tags all over the place until someone has the chance to clean it up a bit. All the best – Toon (talk)  23:25, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Some sources
You may find some of the following peer-reviewed journal articles useful -
 * The diplomatic background to the 1966 football world cup
 * Sport in international relations : a case for cross-disciplinary investigation
 * Canadian Diplomacy and the 1978 Edmonton Commonwealth Games
 * Diplomacy of an Olympic Truce
 * The Nazi Olympics, International Diplomacy and Mass Control: The Origin of Sport as a Political Tool in the Cold War Era
 * A Question of Names: The Solution to the ‘Two Chinas’ Issue in Modern Olympic History: The Final Phase, 1971-1984
 * The IOC and the UN
 * The political Olympics
 * The Use of Sport in the German Democratic Republic for the Promotion of National Consciousness and International Prestige
 * Muhammad Ali and the Convergence of Olympic Sport and U.S. Diplomacy in 1980: A Reassessment from Behind the Scenes at the U.S. State Department
 * "It Was Communism Versus the Free World": The USAUSSR Dual Track Meet Series and the Development of Track and Field in the United states, 1958–1985
 * A comparative study of policies on international relations in Olympic sports: The experiences of Greece and Australia
 * Politics and sport: a background paper
 * other articles such as Wojceich Liponski's The 1988 Olympics as a Catalyst for Changes in the Attitude of Polish Society toward the Republic of Korea and Thomas Domer's The Cold War and American Sport, 1953-1963: Efforts of the Eisenhower and Kennedy Administrations in Sport, Physical Fitness, and International Athletics may also give some background on various topics. 86.21.74.40 (talk) 03:21, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * To add from Category:Sport and politicsLihaas (talk) 11:22, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Boxing
As an aside, Muhammed Ali's stance for civil rights and the Black Power movement, etc. Also, his ties to Africa in the Rumble in the Jungle, perhaps even the Thrilla in Manila. Lihaas (talk) 07:46, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Merger proposal
both subjects are largely similiar. In addition the other article refers to diplomacy, but it is poorly sourced. It can be a good 'overview' of this page though. Lihaas (talk) 07:29, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * How do Gaelic sports, Volata, and the ethic nationalism of Athletic Bilbao fall under sports diplomacy? Sports diplomacy, the politics of sport, and nationalism and sport are related and overlapping but distinct concepts. One could arguably use "politics and sports" and "nationalism and sports" somewhat interchangeably, with "sports diplomacy" a subhead. ---The Cunctator (talk) 02:48, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * That's a valid point. We should move this title to Politics and sports and then merge. Does that sound more plausible? Lihaas (talk) 10:06, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


 * They are separate and notable topics - although interconnected - that deserve their own articles. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 03:04, 12 June 2011 (UTC)


 * But it doent warrant "seerate and notable" because you decree as such. If youve posted to the dscussion then there must be time to respond(Lihaas (talk) 05:55, 20 June 2011 (UTC)).

to do
ZCU and Peter Chingoka vs. Heath Streak et al(Lihaas (talk) 12:28, 11 October 2013 (UTC)).

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Wikipedia Project: Politics and Sports
I (Phong20) am planning to improve this article by adding a new section on Country. It will include section on Brazil. Brazil had political involvement in soccer and the article does not mention about that. For example, 1970 World Cup, Brazilian government used the team's success to promote their propaganda. Adding a section will result adding some external sources and primary sources.

Reference:

Skidmore, Thomas E. The Politics of Military Rule in Brazil, 1964-1985. New York: Oxford University Press, 1993.

Shirts, Matthew. "Playing Soccer in Brazil: Socrates, Corinthians, and Democracy." The Wilson Quarterly (1976-) 13, no. 2 (1989): 119-23. http://www.jstor.org/stable/40257497.

"Brazil Travel Guide - History of Soccer." Brazil Travel. http://www.braziltravelinformation.com/brazil_sports_soccer_history.htm.

American Anthropological Association. "Brazilian Football as a Means of Reflecting Upon Brazilian Society." The Huffington Post. June 17, 2014. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/american-anthropological-association/brazilian-football-as-a-m_b_5498879.html.

Young, James. "How Soccer Culture Made Its Way Into Brazils Political Crisis." Remezcla. 2016. http://remezcla.com/features/sports/soccer-brazil-political-crisis/.

Humphrey, John, and Alan Tomlinson. "Reflections on Brazilian Football: A Review and Critique of Janet Lever's "Soccer Madness"." Bulletin of Latin American Research 5, no. 1 (1986): 101-08. doi:10.2307/3338786.

FELLAY, SARAH. "Saved by the Goalkeeper: Soccer and Elections." Harvard International Review 36, no. 1 (2014): 32-35. http://www.jstor.org/stable/43649245.

Wikipedia: Peer Review of Article Improvement Plans
Hello, this is Woo from Modern Brazil class. I believe we have the same topic for our Wikipedia project. First of all, your plan on adding a new category of Brazilian football to the article (Sports and Politics) seems interesting. Your list of sources already contains various scholarly articles that discuss the affiliation between soccer and politics in Brazil. However, here are some other sources you might want to check for expanding your research.

Kulick, Don. "Soccer, Sex and Scandal in Brazil." Anthropology Now 1, no. 3 (2009): 32-42. Levine, Robert M., and John J. Crocitti, eds. The Brazil reader: History, culture, politics. Duke University Press, 1999. Bocketti, Gregg. The Invention of the Beautiful Game: Football and the Making of Modern Brazil. University Press of Florida, 2016.

Kulick’s text demonstrates how football stars function as powerful social figures in conveying certain images or messages to the public. The text below is the textbook we use in class. On page 497, the book presents two essays regarding football and its transformations in Brazil which can help you in contextualizing football in Brazilian politics. Bocketti’s text provides an overall historical background of football in Brazil as well as mentions how politics are intertwined with football. For example, the author notes that few famous soccer players worked as a running mate for several political candidates. Their reputation and popularity were for increasing public support and votes. I highly encourage you look into soccer players!

Lastly, here are few questions or keywords that I have for you. Cultural Unification: Vargas launched a series of policies that culturally unified Brazil. As a result, popular cultures such as Samba became nationally famous. Football shows similar traits. Would Vargas administration have relationship with promoting football? Race: soccer allowed social mobility of racial minorities. In a racially segregated country like Brazil, how would this be allowed? Corruption: soccer has been on a road of popularization and commercialization in Brazil. It gained numerous support as well as produced economic profits. Would the association or professional teams hold special political power within the society as they train and produce worldly renown soccer stars? Wseol19 (talk) 04:27, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Corinthian Democracy
The most famous incident in Brazilian soccer and politics is Corinthian Democracy. In 1982, Corinthians, a club in Sao Paulo, held election of the club. Unlike other club elections, the presidency of the club was considered as the “third most important position in the country, after the governorship of Sao Paulo and the presidency of the Republic.” Advertisements through televisions, radio, music etc., that added up to around 500,000 U.S. dollars were used. There were two opposing sides, “Corinthian Democracy” and “Order and Truth”, that contested for the place. “Corinthian Democracy” aimed for political liberation within the club and “Order and Truth” remained in the old system, the oligarchy. Socrates, the former soccer player, made a statement that he would stay in Corinthians if free election amendment passes. Corinthian Democracy was defeated after the free-elections campaign’s defeat and Socrates went to Florence as a result.

World Cup in 1970
After Brazil won the World Cup in 1970, General Emilio Medici’s government declared a national holiday, rewarding each player with the equivalent amount of 18,500 U.S. dollars, tax-free. Medici declared “I identify this victory, achieved in the fraternity of sport, with the ascension of faith in our struggle for national development.”. Opinion Poll in 1970 stated that “90 percent of Brazil’s lower classes identified soccer with the nation.” However, after the victory in 1970, Claudio Coutinho who was the manager of the national team was given a mission to modernize the Brazilian playing style. Instead of individual skills, teamwork and discipline were emphasized as Medici’s government made efforts to modernize the Brazilian economy.

Protests
In the summer of 2013, protests about an increase in the cost of public transportation broke out. Although started with a small cause, the protests soon expanded to discontents over government’s spending on social welfare. Protestors requested, “hospitals and schools abiding by FIFA standards.” This request was a “reference to FIFA’s high standards of stadium quality” when the country only spends 5 percent of GDP on education in comparison. However, Ronaldo Luís Nazário de Lima, former soccer player of Brazil, stated that “World Cups aren’t made with hospitals”, referring to a disconnect between soccer stadium and spending on social welfare. This tension led up to a spending of US$850 million on security for the World Cup, which was five times higher than the amount spent by South Africa.

After the official matches began, political activities, such as protests, reduced until the semi-finals. Brazil, considered as a strong candidate to win the World Cup, lost to Germany 7-1. As Sarah Fellay referred, huge defeat against Germany sparked “a flood of protests across the country.” Through social media and other online formats, Brazilians started to denounce the government publicly, referring to past protests. Não vai ter Copa (there will be no cup), which was a slogan to denounce government’s spending on the World Cup, started to recur on social media. As a result, President Rousseff’s approval ratings fell.

Corruption
Brazilian Football Confederation, the CBF, is under the influence of corruption. U.S. Justice Department investigated CBF bosses for their corruption. Jose María Marin, former CBF president, was found guilty of taking US$6.5 million as bribery. Marco Polo del Nero, also a former president of CBF, is currently under provisional suspension since December 2017 by FIFA due to investigations on his bribery. The Arena of Corinthians, where the opening match of 2014 World Cup was held, was referred in an investigation of Petrobras corruption of “money-laundering operation.” Also, in the construction of Arena das Dunas stadium in Natal, “a total of US$23.4 million was used as a source of bribery.

Phong20 (talk) 22:22, 1 April 2018 (UTC) phong20 Edited. Phong20 (talk) 01:21, 9 April 2018 (UTC) phong20

Wikipedia: Peer Review of Articles
Hello, this is Woo from Modern Brazil class. Great job with your first rough draft. However, the assignment asked students to at least write 5000-6000 characters (which are about 850-900 words) and your work only shows approximately 1500 characters with no spaces. In receiving full credits for your work, I believe it would be better to add more information to your intervention. While reading your work, I did not spot any format or grammatical mistakes. You did a great job incorporating primary sources. For better presenting your work to potential readers, organizing paragraphs by themes can provide a concrete and focused image of politics in Brazilian football. In approaching this project, make sure you cite sources on the reference section and link other Wikipedia articles. Overall, your work was interesting, and it seems your work engages with your sources. You maintained neutrality and showed that you kept the Wikipedia’s Five Pillars in mind while drafting your work. However, in finalizing your work in the future, make sure you follow the assignment guidelines! Great job!Wseol19 (talk) 02:15, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Very Detailed and Wide-Ranging, but Room for Improvement
I found this article to be much more extensive, detailed, and covering more sports and more countries than I was expecting. The work here is very interesting to someone like myself who is fascinated by the ways in which sport can be a means for political change. I did think a few sections of this article could use further citations - many paragraphs in the "Club Football" and "Bandy" subsections had no citations at all. I also thought some of the language would benefit from being more neutral, such as the remark about the Football War between El Salvador and Honduras as "the most infamous declaration" of politics and sport, or the comment about how "impressive" Maradona's goals were in the 1986 Men's World Cup Quarterfinals (particularly because the first goal drew a lot of controversy, since Maradona scored it with his hands, and I'm not sure "impressive" would be the most apt word to use there). Also, I think this article could use some updating - in the section regarding North Korea's relations with South Korea through sport, it might be helpful to include a remark about their joint bid to host the 2023 Women's World Cup. Overall, though, the detail and thought that went into this article is clear, and I appreciated your efforts to include countries from both the Global North and South in your descriptions, and to discuss less well-known sports, like chess. Emilymohlin (talk) 20:24, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Uk political hooligans: rugby
This BBC : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50422755 Zezen (talk) 12:50, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Why would someone remove the association football section??
Yes, I understand that those three paragraphs are the same as in the header of the Association football and politics article, but nowhere on Wikipedia does it say that it's not allowed.

User:Crowsus, you literally remove the whole section and leave it empty, and reference it with Merging. What the hell? No one is suggesting a merger, it would be stupid to merge the two articles. However, it is normal to use the header from the Association football and politics article here.

Wanna help? Edit it, change the formulation, put a header that it needs editing. Removing the whole section and leaving it empty is vandalism. Maxim.il89 (talk) 23:37, 3 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Maxim.il89, F off with your vandalism crap. I already linked you to the guideline regarding duplicated content on multiple articles, but here it is again: WP:OVERLAP. By copying everything that was here onto there last week without acknowledgement, debate or explanation you also failed to comply with the WP:CWW guideline which I am aware has already been highlighted to you. You seem to have mixed that up with merging the articles altogether, which I never suggested at any time. So between all that, you're really in no position to lecture me about it. I can't really be arsed editing what's (back) on there and have left it as is, although the scope of the content in relation to football is narrow and somewhat bizarre, with a worldwide sport with hugely diverse political connections summarised mainly with barely notable claims about Sunderland fans' political leanings and stuff about Glasgow which is covered elsewhere. Crowsus (talk) 14:29, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The guideline you link has nothing to do with this situation, it was about mergers. No one is proposing to merge "politics and sports" into "association football and politics" - now, get off your ego crusade and actually look at the rules. There is no rule that forbids to copy a paragraph from one WikiPedia article into another, even though it's encouraged to change the formulation.
 * If you really want to help and not just pretend like you own WikiPedia, feel free to help rewrite it.
 * "I can't really be arsed editing what's (back) on there" - But you can be arsed to erase a whole section and leave it blank... wow, thank you for your significant contribution, you really make WikiPedia a better place.
 * "with barely notable claims about Sunderland fans' political leanings and stuff about Glasgow which is covered elsewhere" - In the article about the history of football in England they mention certain FA Cup finals, league seasons, and so on, does that mean they shouldn't be covered there because they also appear in other articles, like those of the relevant teams? Mentioning Sunderland makes it relevant because the percentage of left-wingers amongst their ranks is particularly high, compared to other British clubs.
 * Sometimes the same piece of information can be relevant to more than one article. Only a small bit of information actually appears here, as the main article is association football and politics.
 * Again, if you want to help rewrite that section, great. But erasing it and leaving it blank? Wow, so helpful. Maxim.il89 (talk) 20:09, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

This article is a mess
The language in parts is atrocious and furthermore it does not form any sort of coherent whole 2001:A62:1527:7502:3D60:A8B1:F3FE:2F1E (talk) 04:53, 31 May 2024 (UTC)