Talk:Polycephaly

Merge
Thanks for the merge of Two-headed snake. I looked pretty hard for an article like this before creating it but didn't find it. &mdash;Quarl (talk) 2006-01-08 10:44Z 
 * Oh, I see this article came later. Looks like we read the same news sources :)  This article is looking great.  I think Bicephalic should be merged to here and transwikied to Wiktionary.  (It's mostly a dicdef right now.)  &mdash;Quarl (talk) 2006-01-08 10:49Z 
 * No problem - I liked what you'd done there. violet/riga (t) 17:03, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Name
OK, I admit I just got the idea from the etymology, but the term has a number of quality hits on Google Book Search and it does have that mellifluous ring to it.--Pharos 15:37, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * That's a possibility, certainly. I looked around for different naming, finding bicephalic and dicephalic being in use but only receiving a low number of Google results.  Polycephaly seems to have a wide scope, but still has only a few hits.  We could argue common usage for Multi-headed animal, and I think that further widening it's scope could take away from the fact that this is about animals and not equipment  or anything else.  I'm undecided, really.
 * Perhaps we could create -cephalic/-cephaly and describe all such things (dicephalic, polycephalic, hydrocephaly, brachycephalic, cephalic disorders...). violet/riga (t) 17:03, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I've made a start on this, adding mention of polycephaly to this article and creating the suffix article. violet/riga (t) 18:13, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm still of two minds about this. It wouldn't have to take away from the focus on animals (especially if it's called Polycephalic animal). violet/riga (t) 15:24, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * "Of two minds?" Very pun-ny.  heh.  Sleeper99999 21:56, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Wondered if anyone would notice! :) violet/riga (t) 22:05, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

What if we just call it Polycephaly and have other meanings at Polycephaly (disambiguation)? It's not a common term exactly, but it's at least apparently more used than "multi-headed animal". By the way, I can see where you were trying to go with Cephalic, but why duplicate the Head article?--Pharos 06:42, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Cephalic is to do with the word and not the head itself. I tried to rewrite this article ready for a renaming to Polycephaly but wasn't happy with the results - I may well try again later.  violet/riga (t) 08:25, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Moved and lead rewritten. violet/riga (t) 21:05, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Proverb
I'm not quite sure if this fits in and if so where:
 * The proverb "Two heads are better than one" is sometimes quoted in as a humourous reference to bicephalic animals.

violet/riga (t) 13:12, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think that proverb is about bicephalic animals; I think it's just a cute way of saying two people thinking about something is better than one (i.e. it would be more accurate to say "Two minds are better than one") &mdash;Quarl (talk) 2006-01-09 19:42Z 


 * Well no, it's not, but it's frequently used as a humourous reference in articles about two-headed animals. violet/riga (t) 19:57, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * There are lots of humourous references concerning lots of topics, but I don't think they are really relevant information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.171.30.94 (talk • contribs)


 * Oh, I see what you meant now, violet/riga. I can see why it would be a common title or subtitle in media coverage.  It might be workable into an image caption.  Or just link to an articles titled "Two heads are better than one".  &mdash;Quarl (talk) 2006-01-09 23:33Z 

Fluffy included twice
Upon reading the article, I found that Fluffy, the tricephalic canine of the Harry Potter series, was included twice in the "Other Occurences." Should it be reduced to just one? Bobryuu 18:29, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've fixed that, thanks. violet/riga (t) 19:00, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Zaphod Beeblebrox
Fixed the quote on Zaphod, as it refers to the movie version and not the audios and books where the second head is clearly visible all the time.
 * Thanks for that. violet/riga (t) 10:17, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Confusing Wording
"Someone stole the double-headed piglet which was stored in a bottle of formaldehyde solution from a museum in Wisconsin and was found in a park in 1999." - Does this mean that the piglet was originally found in the park, or it was rediscovered there after the theft? I assume it was rediscovered in the park. Look it up24.46.211.141 (talk) 22:06, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Two-headed person?
As the head, or more correctly the brain, is so important in defining an identity, is there really such a thing as a two-headed animal or particularly a person - more accurately, you have two people with the one body, not one person with two heads.
 * Depends. If the person has a head that is little more than a growth then it would be just one person.  But where do you draw the line?  violet/riga (t) 15:02, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with the original poster here. Specifically, I disagree with this quote from the article: "Dicephalic conjoined twins (dicephalus dipus) are humans with two heads."  Do we have a reliable medical source for this statement?  (I don't think the case where one head is just a growth is what the original poster was talking about, but rather the case of two fully developed brains.)  --Allen 04:01, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
 * No response, so I've removed the last part of that sentence. --Allen 23:20, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Why "particularly a person"? I came to this talk page to make much the same point, but I'd go much further. It is no less correct to refer to Abigail and Brittany Hensel as "a two-headed girl" than it is to refer to two equally sentient conjoined calves as "a two-headed calf". Individuality is determined in the brain. Polycephaly is the condition of having more than one head, and the individual creatures listed under "real occurences" don't. These parts of this article are hopelessly unencyclopedic. TheMadBaron 00:25, 5 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry but you seem to have an incorrect view of what the term means. Polycephaly does not refer to a particular species of animal that has several heads, but their mutated occurences.  Yes, you can argue that they are two distinct people (souls, individuals, etc.) but their physical appearance is an animal with polycephaly.  This is not a cleanup job - it's a disagreement if anything.  violet/riga (t) 14:16, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

There are arguments for both sides that make sense. The difficulty is ad extremum arguments are valid in either direction: a growth on one animal's head, or non-dicephalic conjoined twins that are separable by surgery. Therefore, I've added the new section "One or two animals?" describing the difference in a neutral point of view. It's fully referenced. Twins such as the Hensels are described as twins, while Syafitri only has one name. When there's a real-world debate, Wikipedia should describe the debate, rather than act it out in articlespace :) —Quarl (talk) 2007-01-01 01:59Z 

a chinese occurrence?
I recall seeing long time ago on TV about a chinese guy who had not quite two heads, but somewhat like two faces in his head (more like one and a half), I do not know his name, and I'm not sure if that would fit here, but I'm mentioning just in case someone wants to search about that. I think that the extra brain part and face was removed surgically, but I'm not sure. --Extremophile 14:49, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Image gallery
I changed the per-section animal images to an image gallery, there isn't enough text in each paragraph for them. —Quarl (talk) 2006-12-31 10:51Z 

Unverifiable human conjoined twins
I found references for all but these four: There is the Facts about Multiples website, but it's not a WP:RS since it's just someone's personal website where people can apparently submit entries. Therefore I've commented them out. —Quarl (talk) 2006-12-31 10:50Z 
 * Maria and Consolata Mwakikoti from Tanzania (b. 1999)
 * Luz and Milagros Romero-Saucedo of Argentina (b. 1999) may or may not be of the dicephalus type.
 * Carmen and Lupita Andrade-Solis (b. 2000), originally from Mexico, currently resident in Connecticut, United States
 * Ayse and Sema from Turkey (b. 2000)

Expansion & referencing
I'd like to get this article to WP:GA status. I've expanded this article a lot and completely referenced the Real Occurances section. One thing that needs to be done is to make the article more historically balanced. Right now we have a lot recent reports about kittens and such but not enough historical data. I've added some but it's not nearly as easy to find citations online for historical occurances. —Quarl (talk) 2007-01-01 01:13Z 

One of the larger structural changes I made was reorganize informative content under "Novelty and study", "Anatomy and fitness", "One or two animals?"; the kittens and such are now in list form. —Quarl (talk) 2007-01-01 03:18Z 


 * Nice article! One major problem for WP:GA is that you have an awful lot of lists.  GA reviewers much prefer these things to be written in 'prose style'. It looks tricky in this case however. SteveBaker 05:51, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

GA review
A good article has the following attributes.

1. It is well written.
 * No. The majority of the article is composed of lists.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * Yes, good referencing.

3. It is broad in its coverage.
 * Yes

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Yes

5. It is stable.
 * Yes

6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
 * Yes

Fail due to prose issues. TimVickers 23:48, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Girls only?
Has anyone else noticed that all the humans with polycephaly mentioned in the article--including the ones discussed above as having been removed for lack of sourcing--are female? Is there some reason female twins are more likely to conjoin in this way than male twins? —Angr 15:45, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Probably nobody can find info about any surviving male conjoined twins of the dicephalus type. But maybe there is a higher occurence rate in females, not sure. Thomasiscool 23:21, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


 * A boy with two heads, recently born in Brazil. http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/healthy-two-headed-baby-born-brazil-192245708.html Bizzybody (talk) 06:27, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Three-Headed Turtle
What's the deal with the three-headed turtle? Is it an example of conjoined triplets rather than conjoined twins? And is it the only such documented case? Thomasiscool 23:25, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Redirection
'Two heads' should redirect here, instead of the first thing being a song. The reason I can't do this myself is that I don't know how. (I've tried looking for an edit on the seach page for it, not coming up with anything, and I can't see any other way on this page) This is because I shouldn't have to search for a specific two headed animal to get here, such as 'two headed snake', I should just be able to search for 'two heads' and get this page.
 * On the search page it will show the search term ("Two heads") as a red link. Clicking that will allow you to create the article using the usual edit window.  Putting "#redirect Polycephaly" in there (as I have just done) means that it will redirect to this article.  Thanks for the suggestion.  violet/riga (t) 06:52, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Lausanne?
All the captions for the photos in the examples section say the animals are all in Lausanne but I don't think the rest of the article backs this up? My apologies if wrong, I just skimmed it.

Great article by the way. Appeals to my current sense of humour, not that it's meant to be funny. Just... weird and wonderful ^_^ thefunkygibsonT¤C 00:33, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Another Turtle
[www.cshfha.org]Tailsfan2 (talk) 22:55, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Hydra?
I think this would be a good place to mention Hydras. I think that they're one of the first things people think of when they learn about Polycephaly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.27.22.181 (talk) 05:19, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

rudy
ive been trying to find info on rudy the two headed pig. health, life span, cause of demise. any full features on himNana lynn (talk) 22:35, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Two faces
Is it really appropriate to have two faced animals on here? This is not related to polycephaly - having two faces is a defect closer to having an extra arm, not an extra head. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.74.168.172 (talk) 15:04, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Another two-headed calf
There is a two-headed calf on display in the Finnish Museum of Natural History, but I noticed it wasn't included in this article. The museum received the calf in the 1950s. 82.181.192.67 (talk) 18:13, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Talmudic discussion
There is a discussion in the Talmud tractate Menachot 37a about a two headed person that might fit into this article somewhere. The Talmud actually discusses a case where someone had a child with two heads — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkkelf99 (talk • contribs) 07:03, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Bunkers
Chang and Eng Bunker were conjoined twins, but not dicephalic. They had two completely seperate bodies accept for a small piece of cartilage and a shared liver (which actually was two complete and fully functional livers that were joined), not two heads with one body. I'm going to remove them from the list after a couple days to allow for talk. Vyselink (talk) 05:16, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * As nobody objected I have removed the Bunker twins. Vyselink (talk) 05:32, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Yet another calf.
The Idaho State Historical Museum might still have a mounted two headed calf. Bizzybody (talk) 06:19, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Record setting two face cat.
Frank and Louie has lived 12 years, a record age for a cat with this condition. http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/09/30/house-cat-with-2-faces-lives-12-years-sets-record/ Bizzybody (talk) 06:30, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Somaris
In mythology, I remember reading (both in greco-roman and hindu mythology) that there is a dog or bitch that guards hell which has multiple heads (2 or 3). I think it is called Somaris or Sonari or something like that. Please add reference if possible. I can't find it on google, but I am very sure of it.
 * [Cerberus]] in Latin, from the Greek Kerberos. I can't find any references to "Somaris" or "Sonari", but possibly (according to that article) related to the Sanskrit word "sarvarā". Iapetus (talk) 13:39, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Conflicting Sections
Part of this article should be reworded or removed. Under Occurrences - Novelty and Study, it says "The most commonly observed two-headed animals are turtles and snakes." Then, under List of Recent Occurrences - Reptiles - Turtles, it states "Two-headed turtles and tortoises are rare but not unknown." The former is most likely to be correct; it is referenced while the latter is not. 20 December 2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.174.151 (talk) 09:38, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

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"Hinduism" section
This section contains this statement: "Though usually depicted with one head, some deities like Ganesha (in Heramba form) and Shiva (Sadashiva) have aspects where they are depicted with multiple heads; five in this case." It seems to me that what "in this case" refers to is unclear. PurpleChez (talk) 19:23, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

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