Talk:Preadolescence/Archive 2

Serial comma or not?
Currently this article is nearly 50/50 regarding the use or omission of a serial comma; internal consistency is roughly the same distance, from here, either way. That being so, clarifying the status quo regarding MOS:SERIAL seems a prudent thing to now do.

A dispassionate review of this article's development shows the first inclusion of a serial list in prose exercised the preference of using a serial comma. That could easily have been maintained absent a discussion with good reason and clear determination for change, but it was not maintained, and by willy-nilly we are now here.

So I ask: what is it to be: Use serial comma, Omit serial comma, or way too much drama? Please avoid the third option to the extent you are able. Of course quoted text will not be affected by any such preference and will continue reflecting the source, faithfully. Thank you.--John Cline (talk) 13:37, 26 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Use serial comma, it's more professional, most often, less ambiguous, and no good reason ever emerged in discussion for changing the first valid election of use.--John Cline (talk) 13:37, 26 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I don't feel strongly about the matter, John Cline. Feel free to make the article consistent on that matter. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 05:13, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 February 2018
Change also known as pre-teen or tween and delete it. Assyria231 (talk) 02:32, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 14:41, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Contradiction
"Being prepubescent is not the same thing as being preadolescent […]

The point at which a child becomes an adolescent is defined by the onset of puberty."

Assuming that "pre-" means "before", these statements appear to be incompatible.

Paul Magnussen (talk) 16:35, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Paul Magnussen, although the point at which a child becomes an adolescent may be defined by the onset of puberty, or the beginning of the teenage stage (as the article also states), it's still the case that prepubescence is not the same thing as preadolescence. "Prepubescent" obviously means "before puberty," but the preadolescence age range covers pubertal children in addition to pre-pubertal children. Furthermore, preadolescence is generally considered to cover ages 10-13, while prepubescence clearly covers infants on up to whatever age a person begins puberty. So not the same. Prepubescent doesn't automatically equate to preadolescence. A pre-pubertal five-year-old child is not a preadolescent. There are clearly different definitions/criteria for what makes an adolescent. One view is that a person is adolescent once they reach puberty; the other view attributes adolescence to the teenage years. The article is addressing both of those points. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 22:07, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Tween a neologism/marketing term?
Given that the two references are dictionaries from 2000 and 2003, I don't think "tween" is a neologism any more. Also, it may have started out as a marketing term, but it has come into common usage outside of that context, probably because it's easier to say than "preadolescent" and other terms for the age.

It does make sense, by the way, if you think of the stage as between childhood and adolescence.

Johnmarkos (talk) 17:43, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that it's stopped being a neologism simply because it's now 2018, but I'll look into it. WP:NEO notes that some neologisms can be in frequent use. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 21:18, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Short description
It's far too emotive and biased-sounding. Can someone make it say something more encyclopedic, like "Age between early childhood and pubescence?" 109.225.98.60 (talk) 16:17, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you mean about the current state of the article. What is wrong with "Preadolescence, also known as pre-teen or tween, is a stage of human development following early childhood and preceding adolescence"? And, as you know, the lead goes into detail about the definition not being consistent. Also, "early childhood and pubescence"? Sources are clear that some preadolescents are pubescent (you know, when the topic is not being defined by puberty). Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 16:50, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh, seems like I'm experiencing a loop. The current one looks good. 109.225.98.60 (talk) 18:55, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Tweens/Tweenagers can include early teenagers/13 y.o.'s by some definitions
The article states in the intro that a Tween is a preadolescent but the term has been used to refer to early teens too such as thirteen and fourteen year olds. While most dictionaries define a tween as from around 10-12 years old, some define it as persons between late preteen and early teens or up to age 13 and I think this article should mention that. --Notcharliechaplin (talk) 06:58, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * That "Preadolescence may also be defined as the period from 9 to 14 years." is already in the "Prepubescence, puberty, and age range" section. That range, which is significantly less common than the 10-13 range, is not WP:Due for the lead. I wouldn't state most dictionaries define a tween between 10-12 years old. Around that age, like you stated? Yes. Dictionaries commonly give the 10-13 range or 9-12 range. Some state 10-12. Yourdictionary.com states, The period of childhood just before the onset of puberty, often designated as between the ages of 10 and 12 in girls and 11 and 13 in boys." And the lead already states "the age range is commonly designated as 10–13 years." There are different ranges that are given, but going with the most common in the lead and leaving it at that is best. And the "10–13" range covers the topic best. Other ranges are best covered lower, but not without reliable sources. No reliable sources give the tween age range as starting in the teenage years, and it wouldn't make sense for them to do so. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 14:09, 12 November 2019 (UTC)