Talk:Sakine Cansız

About "Ferman Hussein"
"Turkish national daily Hürriyet reporting that Cansız had been in conflict with Ferman Hussein, a Syrian national with links to Bashar al-Assad's regime, and the alleged commander of the PKK's military wing

It seems like either Ferman or Fehman Hussein (his correct name) doesn't have a Wiki Article, but actually it does under a different alias, Bahoz Erdal. Can anybody correct this?

Kabraxis (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:26, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Found confirmation for the identification with yet another spelling, "Fehman Hüseyin". Drmies (talk) 23:46, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

ambiguous wording
"Reportedly, she also disagreed with Zübeyir Yılmaz, the alleged financial head of the PKK, with claims made in the Turkish media that he had sexually harassed her."

Although I'm 95% certain that what this is supposed to mean is that Zübeyir allegedly sexually harassed her, which was reported in the Turkish media and subsequently denied by Zübeyir - a denial that Sakine reportedly claimed was a lie. However, it could also mean that Zübeyir agreed with the claims and that Sakine reportedly refuted his acceptance of the claims reported by the Turkish media.

Torvum (talk) 19:57, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

"Founding member"
If so, then why is her name not mentioned anywhere at Kurdistan Workers' Party? — WylieCoyote 17:21, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * because as news reports are now showing, its clearly not adequate.-Kiwipat (talk) 17:38, 10 January 2013 (UTC)


 * In which case, KWP's article is no longer "encyclopedic" and/or biased? — WylieCoyote 17:44, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Eh, or it's just incomplete, like most articles on Wikipedia. (You know that Wikipedia is not a source for Wikipedia--that our article doesn't describe her as a founding member doesn't mean she wasn't.) See it as an invitation to improve the PKK's article. Drmies (talk) 17:48, 10 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Meh, the group's been around since 1984 and no one's mentioned her yet at our article. Just making sure this new article is correct. I've got enough on my plate than to poke a bee's nest and get into edit wars. — WylieCoyote 18:02, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Eh--they've been around since November 1978, and lots of names aren't mentioned in there. I don't even see why edit-warring would be a topic of conversation here. BTW, that she wasn't that well-known until she became a more politically active person is probably pretty obvious considering that she was a commander of an armed wing of an underground resistance movement who had a code name. Then again, check Google books: there's plenty there. Drmies (talk) 18:05, 10 January 2013 (UTC)


 * To be frank, I'm not interested in her or the organization. Even the origin date is wrong. I was just here for the redirect noise, which could've been brought about by someone thinking the killings were more notable than she was. I thought that way for a moment. — WylieCoyote 18:08, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, I appreciate your frankness, I suppose. Drmies (talk) 18:11, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Slightly more information in the channel 4 article including names of other activists killed. EdwardLane (talk) 11:38, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

No Date of Birth (DOB)
This person lacks the date of birth from this page, so the lack of DOB information does not improve the overall quality of the article so far. 70.45.109.54 (talk) 18:48, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks like you're right. Sakine Cansiz does not have the date of birth information on this page, so therefore, this page requires viable information, especially the date of birth and the picture of the person. JMBZ-12 (talk) 18:55, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * We have a year of birth now.-Kiwipat (talk) 21:48, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, but now there is a lack of month and day, so the overall quality remains low, I'm afraid. 70.45.109.54 (talk) 18:37, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

source
A source would be good for the second sentence. Thanks.Ozgurmulazimoglu (talk) 19:33, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ Most current news stories mention it but I sourced it for you. — WylieCoyote 20:29, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Citizenship
Given that she was given asylum by France, she cannot be a Turkish citizen which is written in infobox.Egeymi (talk) 23:10, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hunh? Countries only give asylum to citizens of other countries.  Or do you mean that Turkey revokes the citizenship of its nationals who request asylum elsewhere?  If so, would need a source. --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 23:14, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * As has been reported in multiple sources e.g. here "a police source confirmed that all (of the victims) held Turkish citizenship".–Kiwipat (talk) 01:20, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for reply. I was talking about revoking, of course.Egeymi (talk) 10:56, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Spelling
This article spells its subject's last name both with and without a dotted "I". In Turkish, the dotted and undotted are different letters. Which is correct? It's important to clear this up. --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 23:17, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I have moved the article to the correct name as it would appear in her Turkish passport and as it is spelled in the Library of Congress as well. --Kimse (talk) 00:40, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Most English-language sources cited here use "Sakine Cansiz", an added benefit of which is that it's ambiguous as to whether it is Turkish or Kurdish. The undotted i is undoubtedly Turkish, and discriminatory policies against Kurdish language (which the subject fought against) might account for why her name appears in Turkish on her passport. I think there's no question as to what language the subject&mdash;although not "BLP", recently deceased&mdash;would have preferred. I don't suggest that we move the article to the Kurdish "Sakîne Cansiz", since it is exceedingly uncommon, but the English "Sakine Cansiz" seems like a better choice to the Turkish "Sakine Cansız". Shrigley (talk) 05:39, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * In Turkish it is also "Sakine Cansız", there no name like "Sakıne".Egeymi (talk) 16:48, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know much about her, but I know that "Cansız" is a Turkish word (can be translated as "lifeless"). Many Kurds living in Turkey have Turkish surnames, so Cansız could be the "correct" spelling of her surname. On the other hand, and as far as I know, the undotted i does not exist in the Kurdish alphabet. Maybe someone speaking Kurdish can chime in on how a Kurd would write their name if it contained the undotted i. Or better yet, how Cansız preferred to write it. Crusoe704 (talk) 15:44, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

President Hollande
this article and the bbc seem to say that the French President Hollande met with one of the 3 activists regularly (not clear which one) - and that Turkey wants to know why, also mentioned is Sakine Cansız being involved in peace talks in Oslo. EdwardLane (talk) 17:10, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Problems with Birth Year

 * It is reported in legit sources eg Reuters that she was born in 1958. Not circa 1957 or circa 1958, or whatever. Editors trying to be clever with dates, ages violates WP:NOR. We publish facts, as reported by legit media.-Kiwipat (talk) 20:00, 12 January 2013 (UTC
 * I corrected birth year as 1958 based on the source you mentioned. Hope it is enough.Egeymi (talk) 20:24, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. If there is further dispute, then editors should find legit sources that contradict her birthdate, and cite the circa dates properly, instead of relying on original research.-Kiwipat (talk) 20:34, 12 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually the rant must continue a tad longer (I just got back online). All I have said is that without a date of birth an age cannot be concluded. Even your Reuters source doesn't say she was 55. If she was born in 1958, as I explained already to you on your talk page, it is extremely unlikely she was 55 unless her birthday fell between January 1 and January 10. If she was 55 she likely wasn't born in 1958. I have no problems keeping 1958 as the year of birth, but concluding an age is an unwarranted exegesis, or OR, if you will, and naturally I would never do that. As far as circa 1957 or circa 1958, I don't think that requires much cleverness, nor is it bold, nor is it OR, nor does it require one to IAR. It is simply a commonsense duty to responsible editing to question the improbable. One man's trivia is another's significa, I suppose. Quis separabit?  20:59, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The Huffington Post reflink states she was "in her 50s". Quis separabit?  21:03, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Wikileaks
removed that entire Wikileaks section in this edit as "undue". As a matter of fact, I agree with Lihaas--I didn't like that huge wall of text being stuck in the middle of an article in the first place, and much of it is really not about her. Now, the problem is that we have a random sentence at the end of the lead, which I will be removing also. I have no objection to a highly condensed version (two or three sentences) being reinserted in the article, but it would need to be placed better than it was before. Drmies (talk) 23:34, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Date of death?

 * is it 9 or 10 January? --88.252.163.69 (talk) 17:36, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * 9 as established in autopsy - see article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.227.93 (talk) 20:17, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Problematic text
I don't understand what not liking traditional Kurdish dress to do with the revolutionary consciousness. Even the terms like revolutionary consciousness are too vauge. Her biography is written mostly in according to the autobigraphic book written by her which is probably a primary source.--Visnelma (talk) 16:50, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

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