Talk:Sarada Uchiha

Keeping the article
When the article of Sarada Uchiha was nominated to deletion, me myself agreed to its merge because it failed to pass notability. However, I managed to find around 11 sources in one day with some of them also focused on the other traits and arcs of the character. I think she actually has more reception than Jiraiya (Naruto). Please discuss here before reverting the article.Tintor2 (talk) 10:37, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Forgot to ping User:Steve Quinn.Tintor2 (talk) 15:17, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
 * At the time of the AFD (May 9, 2016), the Boruto manga series was just getting started (first chapter released May 9, 2016), so now it's been over a year, and there's even an anime series on it, as well as a million copies sold, and many more reviews critiquing the character in both the anime and manga. So with the reception beefed up, this should pass notability. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 14:02, 17 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The first several references are really not up to standards. Articles like this often have substandard sources, not really wp:rs. So, we will see. ---Steve Quinn (talk) 03:29, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Linking to other Wikipedia articles in the references? These are not reliable sources. It is closer to a walled garden. ---Steve Quinn (talk) 03:36, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * In what way are the references WP:UNRELIABLE? -- 1989 03:56, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * This tells me that you may not how notability and referencing work on Wikipedia. I'm not going to get into a discussion about Wikipedia articles referencing other Wikipedia articles, but this does not work, and would fail as acceptable sources in an AfD. Steve Quinn (talk) 04:14, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I know how it works, I'm trying to wonder if you do. Your statements make no sense, if I link a publisher, that means it's unreliable? Did you read the whole references instead of the linked words? -- 1989 04:35, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * but, do you know that Wikipedia articles are not considered reliable sources? See this, and this . I consider it odd to use Wikipedia articles in the references. But, I don't care if they are used here. They don't establish notability of this topic, and are more for background. ---Steve Quinn (talk) 05:25, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Adding wikilinks to a publisher or a media source in a footnote is not against policy. It's not supposed to be presented as a reliable source, and if you think that's the intention, you're wrong. -- 1989 05:53, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I was going to post this to my talk page, but since you are here I am posting this here. I am willing to take it to AfD if necessary. But I would rather the article stand on its own merits. I have been through the first twenty references so far, and I am not sure about what I am seeing. This is what I mean by Fan website:, , and . Are these really independent reliable sources, independent of the subject and so on?
 * I have to question the independence of this website as a source. There are other references that are linked to other Wikipedia articles. Then there are references that are books of fiction, like novels, but these don't qualify as reliable sources. These are a similar pattern that I have seen in other Anime articles. Being one editor I don't have the time to question or challenge a number of articles that I see in the Anime project. The articles tend to reflect what Anime websites have to say.---Steve Quinn (talk) 04:16, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes. -- 1989 04:19, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, what do you mean by yes. Can you elaborate? ---Steve Quinn (talk) 04:23, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * "Are these really independent reliable sources, independent of the subject and so on?" WP:A&M/I = Yes. -- 1989 04:25, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * OK thanks. I will read through this and have to get back to you. I was thinking of doing this anyway, since I have seen a pattern in a number of Anime articles. Steve Quinn (talk) 04:27, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm curious, I've looked over the list of sources and don't see any Wikipedia articles cited as sources. Where specifically do you seeing this? Secondly, Anime News Network has long been established as a reliable source at WT:ANIME and at WP:RSN and is generally considered the website of record for anime news. What evidence do you have to doubt the accuracy of ANN's coverage? You made the claim that it is not "independent". On what bases do you make that claim? Do you consider GameSpot, Kotaku, Polygon, IGN, etc. to be unreliable because they are online only sources? —Farix (t &#124; c) 10:46, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm curious, I've looked over the list of sources and don't see any Wikipedia articles cited as sources. Where specifically do you seeing this? Secondly, Anime News Network has long been established as a reliable source at WT:ANIME and at WP:RSN and is generally considered the website of record for anime news. What evidence do you have to doubt the accuracy of ANN's coverage? You made the claim that it is not "independent". On what bases do you make that claim? Do you consider GameSpot, Kotaku, Polygon, IGN, etc. to be unreliable because they are online only sources? —Farix (t &#124; c) 10:46, 18 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Expanded a bit more and I think reception is even bigger than the appearances section. However, if somebody has some sources to add, I'll add them later. Today is a busy day for me.Tintor2 (talk) 16:03, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The references that link to Wikipedia articles are not how I set up references. I normally link to the book or the chapter. So it is not using Wikipedia as a reference per se, I am mistaken about that. It is linking book references to related Wikipedia articles rather then the book or chapter online, which to me is misleading. But, that is my take on it. Regarding the other stuff under discussion, it is going to take me a awhile to go over the relevant material and come back to this discussion.
 * So, in the meantime, I removed the notability tag. My initial perceptions might not be accurate or they might be accurate. At the RSN there has not been high turn out whenever Anime News Network was discussed, so I don't think the definitive answer on whether or not it is a reliable source is there. Over at RSN, it looks like 3 or 4 Anime Project member editors versus one editor who is not (something like that). I am wondering how this would be viewed as a source on a Wikipedia-wide scale.
 * But, right now I have no way of knowing. The low RSN turnouts are not convincing for me. At the same time, I am not going to challenge a whole WikiProject (Anime) as only one editor. But I am entitled to my view as long as I am not disruptive. And after sifting through all the relevant material over at the Anime Project, and in other places, my view might change. Regards. Steve Quinn (talk) 23:10, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

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