Talk:Sazerac

Peychaud's bitters
''If you do not have Peychaud's bitters, you cannot make this drink. If it is not available from your local spirits purveyor, you may mail-order it from the Sazerac Company, http://www.sazerac.com/bitters.html''

This reads like an advert. Let us see: I can replace pretty much any other component (even make it with bourbon) and get a variation, but as soon as I use a different brand of bitters, I cannot make this cocktail? Says who? I understand that this drink is Sazerac's baby, and it certainly should be reflected in the article. I see no harm in preserving the link to sazerac.com, as long as it is not in the article body.

In other words, I would like to shift stuff around, and replace POV "you cannot make this drink" with a more neutral "according to some sources, you cannot make this drink". melikamp 23:40, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

To an extent the statement about Peychaud's here is just as true about absinthe. The original Sazerac should be made using absinthe - not the substitutes quoted here. And Cognac (not just brandy) was used before bourbon was used. So the article should feature the real recipe with Absinthe, Cognac and Peychaud's, and then after that quote the alternatives of pastis, bourbon and something like Angostura. Comments? Will anyone object if I re-write it accordingly?

Alanmoss 10:07, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Nope, on smaller pages, ones without debate, or an obviously good addition, I'd say edit first ask questions later. Ari 17:12, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

I threw away "you cannot make this drink without Peychaud's" as redundant, and also moved the link to sazerac.com to the bottom to make it look less of a plug in (which it is). melikamp 06:46, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Alanmoss 06:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Almost no bars in New Orleans use Peychaud's; the only one I know of that does is the bar in the Roosevelt hotel. Philgoetz (talk) 16:24, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

I was surprised to see an attempt to replace this article with another that is full of elementary spelling mistakes. Can I suggest that those mistakes are cleaned up first, and then it might be more appropriate to consider the proposed change. Alanmoss 18:28, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Attempting to include an exact "recipe" may be a problem, resulting in disagreements as to the proportions of each ingredient. However, any article that does not list the primary ingredients (Rye Whiskey, Absinthe (or Herbsaint), Peychaud's Bitters, Angostura Bitters, Sugar, etc., would be a totally useless article. It would be like having an article on the "Reuben Sandwich" or on "Gumbo" without explaining to the reader what is in the basic recipé. However, the current article on the Sazerac Cocktail includes the ingredient "Sazerac Rye Whiskey," which is a relatively new brand name that has only been in existence for about a decade, and essentially makes this article an advertisement for one particular brand of Rye whiskey, AND for the Buffalo Trace Distillery. PGNormand (talk) 15:55, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Much of article removed
I have removed much of the content of this article as it is unencylopedic, and violates the standards of WP:NOT point 8. Specifically, instructions and recipes do not belong in wikipedia, but they do belong in Wikibooks. I have therefore removed the recipe/instructional content of this article, and posted a link within the article to the wikibooks article on this drink. The wikibooks article may well need some improvement, it can be edited just as a wikipedia article can be edited. --Xyzzyplugh 01:54, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

So why don't you divert your energy to sorting out the mess of a page you proposed to link to? It would be more constructive to sort out a bad page there (rather than just stating it can be edited) than to delete most of a page which has been agreed by several experts already. The page you divert to violates the standards of spelling and grammar, which IMO should be considered higher standards. Alanmoss 14:24, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm going through and removing the recipes from all the cocktails articles, got almost all of them done now, and transwikiing them to Wikibooks. If the wikibooks article linked to from this article is mispelled or otherwise not as good quality as the content I removed from here, you can edit that and replace much of that text with the text that was in this article.  I would do this myself, but I know nothing of this cocktail and don't know which version is better, which parts of this article to move there and which parts not to, etc.  If you simply want to cut the entire text of the previous version of this article and replace the entire one there, it's doubtful anyone would object.  --Xyzzyplugh 02:42, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

So you'll be removing the Martini instructions too? No, of course not... The page needs basic instructions. The Sazerac is a historic drink, not just any old cocktail recipe. Binkydozer 17:09, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Much of article rewritten and replaced
The Sazerac is probably the oldest cocktail that is still made somewhat resemebling it's original form. The instructions are "intricate" and unique, and part of the defining character of the drink. The instructions give a sort of historical insight into very old cocktails. Philvarner 22:04, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Bitters
The possible ingredients list should remain as: Cognac, rye whiskey, absinthe, pastis, Peychaud's bitters, and Angostura bitters

The drink maybe be properly made with Peychaud's, but can be made with Angostura. They are different ingredients and should be listed as such.

I have seen recipes calling for various combinations of these. The drink is typically made with:

Cognac or rye absinthe or pastis (pastis is an absinthe substitute) Peychaud's or Angostura —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Philvarner (talk • contribs) 22:19, 7 February 2007 (UTC).

If you go to New Orleans
Every bar in New Orleans carries Old Overholt Rye to use in their Sazerac cocktails. While they may have other rye whiskey available, such as Sazerac Rye, Old Overholt is ubiquitous in New Orleans because it is among the least expensive rye whiskeys on the market. Bourbon really shouldn't be used for a Sazerac unless one has no rye whiskey available, Bourbon makes it a very different cocktail. If Bourbon must be substituted, it would be best to use a Bourbon with as high a rye content as possible, such as Bulleit Bourbon.

You will also find Herbsaint, a pastis liqueur which originated in New Orleans in response to absinthe being unavailable in the early 20th century. It, too, is found everywhere in New Orleans, not just because it is from there, but because it is significantly less expensive than imported pastis liqueurs such as Pernod or Ricard or Henri Bardouin.

As for bitters, yes, the most authentic bitters to use is Peychaud, but if that is unavailable, Angostura bitters or Fee Brothers aromatic bitters, or The Bitter Truth aromatic bitters may be substituted. CrashRiley (talk) 02:30, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

I was in New Orleans for the past week, and did not find a single bar that uses absinthe in its Sazerac. All the ones I went to use Herbsaint instead, and have for the past 100 years. The article should say that the original recipe called for absinthe, but the drink is now made with Herbsaint. Philgoetz (talk) 16:28, 13 March 2019 (UTC)


 * There are bars in New Orleans that use absinthe by default, but the current article already contains the following sentence (second paragraph), which is clear, accurate, and self-explanatory: "In New Orleans, Herbsaint is most commonly used due to the absence of absinthe in the U.S. market from 1912 until 2007." Additionally, Herbsaint didn't exist until after Prohibition ended (85 years ago), being marketed in an attempt to fill a void created by the unavailability of absinthe. Vapeur (talk) 00:39, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Sazerac Company
How come there is no Wikipedia article for the Sazerac Company? Rees11 (talk) 14:43, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

In popular culture
The Sazerac cocktail also figures prominently in W.E.B. Griffin's 'A Presidential Agent' series. Jafder (talk) 18:39, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

IBA prep
The infobox template doc says "If the drink is an IBA Official Cocktail, only the official instructions should be given. Minor edits are acceptable (sometimes even desirable), but only if they do not alter or confuse any of the process of making the drink the IBA way." GA-RT-22 (talk) 00:24, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * GA-RT-22, please see Copyright violations. I don't really care what the template says: this was a clear copyvio. Drmies (talk) 01:29, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * That's not clear to me. The Sixth Circuit ruled in Tomaydo-Tomahdo, LLC v. Vozary that "a recipe’s instructions, as functional directions, are statutorily excluded from copyright protection". I know you said you don't care, but if you were to add something to the template doc it might help avoid this sort of "copyright violation" (if it in fact is a violation) in the future. Some of us do read and depend on Wikipedia documentation. GA-RT-22 (talk) 14:20, 5 May 2024 (UTC)