Talk:Scotch-Irish Canadians

Page move problem
Not a big deal just a move not done properly as per Moving a page. This page was created by copy and pasting text from Ulster Scots Canadians and from this edit from Scotch-Irish American. I dont think the move to a new title is a problem but we have lost all the page history. I have reverted the edits to these two pages till we can get some admin help in fixing the "cut and paste moves". The term " Ulster Scots" is not used often anymore in Canada and I support the move the new editor was trying to do.... thus why I am asking for help for the new editor. -- Moxy (talk) 03:23, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The Histmerge template has been placed at the top of this article, and a new request has been made to effect your wishes. –  Paine Ellsworth  C LIMAX ! 10:42, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think it is as simple as just a history merge . But let me get this straight (before I screw it up).
 * You want the history of Ulster Scots Canadians merged with the history of Scotch-Irish Canadians (that is simple enough)
 * There was also a copy/paste from Scotch-Irish Americans as the "template" for SI Canadians?
 * For point two all you need is to fill out the copied template on the talk pages of SI Canadians and SI Americans. Is there any reason to history merge the two Canadian articles? Ping me here or on my talk page with your response, and I am happy to complete it for you, just want to get it straight in my head first. --kelapstick(bainuu) 12:01, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I just reread your message again, I will do the hist merge. --kelapstick(bainuu) 12:02, 18 May 2014 (UTC)


 * THANK YOU GUYS!!.... I will work on sources over the next week....will be posting the books I read below in a new section. --Moxy (talk) 18:44, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Scotch-Irish Canadian or Scots-Irish Canadian
I know this has been a huge issue on the Scotch-Irish American article and talk page, so I'm genuinely not trying to pick a fight on the issue. (For the record, I am an American of partial Scotch-Irish descent, and self-identify as such.) But I have to wonder if Scotch-Irish Canadian is really the more common term than Scots-Irish Canadian. For comparison only, a quick Google search shows the first 30 hits for "Scotch-Irish American" refering to the people group, while most of the first 30 hits for "Scotch-Irish Canadian" refer to alcoholic drinks. The only source in the article refers to Ulster Scot Canadians, but that is probably to be expected, as the source is the BBC. At this point, we have no reliable sources for Ulster Scot Canadian being a less-common term than Scotch-Irish Canadian/Scots-Irish Canadian. - BilCat (talk) 19:28, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
 * "Scotch" being used to refer to people is a Victorian archaism. Scots-Irish is now the more common spelling, since the 1990s (i.e. since the public Internet put North Americans in immediate touch with real Scots). This article should move.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  20:07, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @SMcCandlish: This article is about Canadians, not Americans. (You really should read your posts more carefully when you copy them from another talk page.) BilCat (talk) 20:32, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Typo fixed.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  20:50, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * BilCat (talk) 21:01, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The question isn't what do "real Scots" want Canadians of Scots-/Scotch-/Ulster-Scots descent to.be called, but how those Canadians refer to themselves. I raised that question over 9 years ago, right after the article was moved to the current title, and yours is the first response. I probably should have reverted the move right then, and I certainly wouldn't object to it being moved now. But we still don't what the preferred term for this group is for themselves. BilCat (talk) 21:07, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Rather than WP:TALKFORK, I don't think anything raised here is not already covered at Talk:Scotch-Irish Americans. If these were WP:RMed, it would probably be as a paired nomination.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  21:41, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * If you start the RM, you can do whatever you want. I'll still answer it as two separate issues. Two countries, two different cultures, and different bodies of sources concerning what each is called. BilCat (talk) 22:05, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Orange Order
This article assumes Orangeism is synonymous with being Ulster Scots. The OO was founded by people of Huguenot and English descent and initially banned presbyterians from joining. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.252.128.81 (talk) 17:02, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Additional sources

 * – Entire book will probably be of relevance. This was originally an expensive academic issue, but is now available used for around US$15. Significant parts of the content can be Google-previewed here.
 * – "This volume contains a selection of the best papers from the conference, ﬁve invited chapters, and an introduction, for a total of nearly 149,000 words." Also covers Irish, Welsh, etc.
 * – Has extensive chapters by 7 or 8 authors. Includes Australia in some of Ray's material, but no dedicated chapter about it; the book is mostly about Canada and the US.
 * Other pieces include: Ray, Celete; "Scottish Immigration and Ethnic Organization in the United States", "Scottish immigration and ethnic organization in the United States", "Bravehearts and Patriarchs. Masculinity on the Pedestal in Southern Scottish Heritage Celebration". Jarvie, Grant; "The North American Émigré, Highland Games, and Social Capital in International Communities". Hook, Andrew; "Troubling Times in the Scottish-American Relationship". Sheets, John W.; "Finding Colonsay's Emigrants and a 'Heritage of Place'". Basu, Paul; "Pilgrims to the Far Country: North American 'Roots-Tourists' in the Scottish Highlands and Islands". Cowan, Edward J.; "Tartan Day in America". McArthur, Colin; "Transatlantic Scots, Their Interlocutors, and the Scottish Discursive Unconscious".
 * - Might be broadly defined enough to include early Canada (can't tell without getting the book or finding a detailed review of it).
 * – Covers the Plantation of Ulster through American emigration and early US history; might cover Canada, too, but check reviews before ordering.
 * – "A massive, scrupulously edited case studies of early emigrants from Ireland (most from Ulster)". Since it's pre-US, it may also cover Canada, but check reviews before ordering.
 * – "Assesses the volume, character, and motivations for Ulster [among other, e.g. German, African, etc.] emigration to America." Presumably also Canada, since title says "North America".
 * – Not limited to Ulster.
 * Other pieces include: Ray, Celete; "Scottish Immigration and Ethnic Organization in the United States", "Scottish immigration and ethnic organization in the United States", "Bravehearts and Patriarchs. Masculinity on the Pedestal in Southern Scottish Heritage Celebration". Jarvie, Grant; "The North American Émigré, Highland Games, and Social Capital in International Communities". Hook, Andrew; "Troubling Times in the Scottish-American Relationship". Sheets, John W.; "Finding Colonsay's Emigrants and a 'Heritage of Place'". Basu, Paul; "Pilgrims to the Far Country: North American 'Roots-Tourists' in the Scottish Highlands and Islands". Cowan, Edward J.; "Tartan Day in America". McArthur, Colin; "Transatlantic Scots, Their Interlocutors, and the Scottish Discursive Unconscious".
 * - Might be broadly defined enough to include early Canada (can't tell without getting the book or finding a detailed review of it).
 * – Covers the Plantation of Ulster through American emigration and early US history; might cover Canada, too, but check reviews before ordering.
 * – "A massive, scrupulously edited case studies of early emigrants from Ireland (most from Ulster)". Since it's pre-US, it may also cover Canada, but check reviews before ordering.
 * – "Assesses the volume, character, and motivations for Ulster [among other, e.g. German, African, etc.] emigration to America." Presumably also Canada, since title says "North America".
 * – Not limited to Ulster.
 * – Covers the Plantation of Ulster through American emigration and early US history; might cover Canada, too, but check reviews before ordering.
 * – "A massive, scrupulously edited case studies of early emigrants from Ireland (most from Ulster)". Since it's pre-US, it may also cover Canada, but check reviews before ordering.
 * – "Assesses the volume, character, and motivations for Ulster [among other, e.g. German, African, etc.] emigration to America." Presumably also Canada, since title says "North America".
 * – Not limited to Ulster.
 * – Not limited to Ulster.

See also: Talk:Scotch-Irish Americans, Talk:Scottish diaspora, Talk:Ulster Scots people, Talk:Irish diaspora. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  20:19, 31 August 2023 (UTC); rev'd. 13:27, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Scotch-Irish Canadians verses Canada's Ulster Scots
Why was this article moved from Ulster Scots Canadians to Scotch-Irish Canadians? Scotch-Irish is an American term not used in Canada, where the preferred term is Ulster Scots. In fact the only source used for this article uses call's them Canada's Ulster Scots.

I suggest moving the article per common name.

TFD (talk) 12:43, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell the common term in Canada is Scotch-Irish or Scots Irish, not Ulster Scots. Do you have evidence that it's a purely American term not used in Canada? Canterbury Tail talk 16:51, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Canada's Ulster - Scots by Brian McConnell. Kerby A. Miller explains how the term Scotch-Irish came to be used in the U.S. to distinguish Irish Protestants from Catholics.(pp. 75 ff.)
 * To be frank, I don't think Canadians used either term very much, so would expect to see the term used in the UK.
 * Do you have any reason to believe that the term Scotch Irish is commonly used in Canada? TFD (talk) 18:50, 9 March 2024 (UTC)