Talk:Six-Day War

Egyptian OOB
> The Egyptian forces consisted of seven divisions: four armoured, two infantry, and one mechanized infantry.

This does not agree with ["Order of battle for the Six-Day War" article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_battle_for_the_Six-Day_War#Egyptian_Army) and [map used by the section](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/1967_Six_Day_War_-_conquest_of_Sinai_5-6_June.jpg).

OOB article suggests that it's backwards (four infantry, two armored, one mechanized):


 * 2nd Infantry Division – Maj. Gen. Sadi Naguib
 * 3rd Infantry Division – Maj. Gen. Osman Nasser
 * 7th Infantry Division – Maj. Gen. Abd el Aziz Soliman
 * 20th PLA Division Gaza – Maj. Gen. Mohammed Abd el Moneim Hasni
 * Infantry Brigade (Ind) – Brig. Mohammed Abd el Moneim Khalil
 * 6th Mechanized Division – Maj. Gen. Abd el Kader Hassan (on map as infantry division, but that's probably fine)
 * Task Force Shazli – Maj. Gen. Saad el-Shazly (on map as armored division)
 * 4th Armoured Division – Maj. Gen. Sidki el Ghoul
 * 1st Armoured Brigade – Brig. Hussein Abd el Nataf
 * 125th Armoured Brigade – Brig. Ahmed El-Naby

Grammar error in the second paragraph
My biggest pet peeve as an avid wiki reader is grammar issues. There is a big one in the second paragraph. "closed by Egypt for all Israeli shipping since 1948" should be "closed by Egypt to all Israeli shipping since 1948"

I am not extended confirmed. Somebody please make that correction.

Pomodecon (talk) 00:22, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Jack Frost (talk) 13:22, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 September 2022
In a few (I think four; easy to control-F) places, reference is made to Israel's "conquest" of Sinai or the West Bank. I suggest that this be changed to "occupy" or "occupation" (depending on context, of course), in line with standard practice, to reduce bias and reflect the fact that these territories have not been annexed by Israel. Peaux (talk) 00:18, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
 * changed to capture and attack for sharm.  nableezy  - 02:30, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

I suggest omitting the claim that the Egyptian minesweeper was sunk by commandos prior to its capture, because this is an unrealistic claim in an article about Six Days of War in all sources, including Israeli sources. Vergth (talk) 12:33, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

https://zionism-israel.com/dic/Shayetet_13.htm Like the Israeli encyclopedia Vergth (talk) 12:37, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Benny Morris in his book Righteous Victims noted that 6 Israeli naval commandos were captured without being able to damage a single ship, page 784 in the book. Major General El-Shazly pointed out that the Egyptian Navy did not suffer any losses in the 1967 war. Field Marshal Mohamed Fawzy indicated in his book "The War of Attrition that lasted for 3 years" that the Egyptian Navy did not incur any losses in terms of personnel or equipment in the 1967 war. To that the commandos were captured, and they were captured without ships. The encyclopedia said that the task of neutralizing the enemy fleets, as the Israeli navy did not have enough regular forces. Let's do it. The idea was that the use of commandos would allow a small number of high-quality troops to compensate for the perceived lack of ships and firepower. In this event, Shayetet 13 saw quite a bit of movement, but on the other hand, enemy fleets were relatively inactive as well. She infiltrated Port Said, but there were no ships to target. It crept into the port of Alexandria, but the six divers who were sent there were stranded and captured by the Egyptians. As a result of this intervention, the Egyptians increased the security of their ports. Other missions also failed, including one in Syria that the commander did not carry out Vergth (talk) 12:44, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Sabotage Israeli divers were sent to the ports of Port Said and Alexandria, but they failed to damage a single ship. Six Israeli divers captured in Alexandria are captured on page 784 of Benny Morris' book The Righteous Victims. Vergth (talk) 13:05, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

please respond Vergth (talk) 19:21, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Amendment request
I suggest deleting the claim that Israeli commandos sank an Egyptian minesweeper before it was captured. This is an empty claim and is not based on any source Vergth (talk) 04:49, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Benny Morris noted in his book Righteous Victims that 6 Israeli naval commandos were captured without being able to damage a single ship, page 784 in the book. Major General El-Shazly indicated that the Egyptian Navy did not suffer any losses in the 1967 war. Field Marshal Mohamed Fawzy indicated in his book "The 3-Year War of Attrition" that the Egyptian Navy did not incur any losses in personnel or equipment in the 1967 war. Therefore, the arrest of commando. They were captured without being able to damage a single ship. The encyclopedia said that the task of neutralizing the enemy fleets, as the Israeli navy did not have enough regular forces. Let's do it. The idea was that the use of commandos would allow a small number of high-quality troops to compensate for the perceived lack of ships and firepower. In this event, Shayetet 13 saw quite a bit of movement, but on the other hand, enemy fleets were relatively inactive as well. It infiltrated Port Said, but there were no ships to target. It crept into the port of Alexandria, but the six divers who were sent there were stranded and captured by the Egyptians. As a result of this intervention, the Egyptians increased the security of their ports. Other missions also failed, including one in Syria that the commander did not carry out Vergth (talk) 04:52, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

https://zionism-israel.com/dic/Shayetet_13.htm Vergth (talk) 04:53, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Sabotage Israeli divers were sent to the ports of Port Said and Alexandria, but they failed to damage a single ship. Six Israeli divers captured in Alexandria on page 784 of Benny Morris' book The Righteous Victims Vergth (talk) 04:54, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Lead section
Lead sections should consist of three or four well-composed paragraphs. This article has a seven-paragraph wall of text instead. It should be rewritten to a higher standard. 109.144.208.240 (talk) 09:21, 5 October 2022 (UTC)


 * I've trimmed some of the more granular and unnecessary detail and editorializing and reduced the material to four paragraphs. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:18, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 October 2022
The existing link in footnote 233 leads to a 404 page unknown error in the Jewish Chronicle. The correct web address to use is: https://www.thejc.com/life-and-culture/all/david-rubinger-in-the-picture-1.1825 Christoooj (talk) 21:17, 8 October 2022 (UTC)


 * ✅ lol1 VNIO  ( I made a mistake?  talk to me ) 23:57, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

A probable mistake
In the casualties table it is written that 400 Israeli tanks were DESTROYED. This number seems to be too high, and seems to refer to DAMAGED tanks. Most of the damaged tanks were repaired sooner or later. In addition, some 200 Arab tanks were taken by IDF and perhaps it is needed a different entry in this table.

The Egyptian Army
Section The Egyptian Army includes a request for citation about statement that implies Amer's panicking being the (main? sole?) reason for his issuing of the order for withdraw.

Next sentence (supported by citation from Egyptian source that I like) says that Naser together with Amer made that decision. I think source makes assumptions of panic valid, but it was not Amer's panic only, and didn't so much influence whether to withdraw or not, as it influenced the order to require the forces to withdraw in 24 hours without instructions how to achieve that.

I have no good idea (yet) how to rephrase that part well, and the identical problem applies to article Battle of Abu-Ageila here. Marjan Tomki SI (talk) 14:40, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

undue
how is it undue to note the peacekeepers killed in the initial attack in the lead? every source that discusses the war in any depth notes that attack and the resulting casualties.  nableezy  - 17:31, 27 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Peacekeeper casualty info is patchy on United Nations Truce Supervision Organization too. Iskandar323 (talk) 20:00, 27 January 2023 (UTC)


 * That sources discuss it is justification for it being in the article overall, but not a reason why it needs to be in the lead. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 20:18, 27 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I believe the fact that one of the two countries started the war before the UN peacekeepers had even left the area and killed 15 UN Peacekeepers, which as far as I know had never and has never since been done by any other country in the world, is more relevant than many other sections included in the introduction. The fact that some users are so adamant into preventing this one half-sentence that is duly sourced to figure in the introduction does nothing but confirm that it is a consequential piece of information. Dan Palraz (talk) 13:51, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It provides obvious detail to the situation on the ground at the time and helps paint the picture started by the sentence before, which notes that UN peacekeepers were still in the process of pulling out from the area. Iskandar323 (talk) 14:13, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Dan Palraz, @Dovidroth: Ahem, both of you have breached the WP:1RR limit on this page today. Dan, you have dodged a bullet, since you've already been reverted in turn, but Dovid, I suggest you self-revert ASAP. Iskandar323 (talk) 14:23, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * totally UNDUE, a very fringe element in the war's commonly reported outbreak. Tombah (talk) 15:44, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Honestly, the USS Liberty incident gets more coverage in sources that I've seen, and we don't put that in the lede either (not even as a mention the way we do that UN peacekeepers were still withdrawing). --OuroborosCobra (talk) 23:53, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * We should mention that also. Both UN and US casualties should be bare minimum in the casualties section of the lead. Both are very high casualty numbers for entirely uninvolved forces. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:17, 30 January 2023 (UTC)


 * So, what is the procedure now? Dan Palraz (talk) 13:51, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Give it a little time for people to express a view about it. No rush. Selfstudier (talk) 14:15, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Saudi Arabia?
I think it's false to put Saudi Arabia in direct opposite of Israel in belligerents and so is Iraq because even though they indirectly participated by sending some troops and money or weapons; the major powers involved or attacked were Egypt, Syria and Jordan. Saudi Arabia should be moved in supporters not direct belligerent. Nlivataye (talk) 17:11, 17 March 2023 (UTC)


 * You aren’t “indirectly involved” if you are sending troops. That is direct involvement. —OuroborosCobra (talk) 17:32, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That's still indirect not direct. Most civil wars among nations have had foreign interferences and indirectly troops have been sent like the Russian civil war but does it say Russia was fighting US, The rest of Europe and Japan? No still Russian civil war. My point still stands Nlivataye (talk) 07:38, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 June 2023
Remove Vandalism, the cited source never said that the israeli attacks or invasion was “pre-emptive” or any thing like that

In the lead, Replace: Israel launched a series of pre-emptive airstrikes against Egyptian airfields and other facilities, launching its war effort

With: Israel launched a series of airstrike assaults against Egyptian airfields and other facilities, launching its war effort Chafique (talk) 00:06, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

❌: Against consensus. Iseult  Δx parlez moi 14:42, 24 June 2023 (UTC)


 * It should say "surprise attack", not "pre-emptive attack" because there was no imminent Egyptian attack to pre-empt 76.126.165.59 (talk) 16:23, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Please remove "pre-emptive." The source cited does not support this, and generally it seems illogical given that a paragraph or so earlier, the article states that Israel had said that if Egypt were to close the strait again, Israel would consider that a causus belli, i.e., a cause for war. Certainly the more logical interpretation of the events that followed, then is that Egypt closed the strait again, and given its knowledge of what Israel had just said about how they would interpret this as a causus belli, Egypt mobilized its army in order to defend against a presumed impending Israeli attack, which indeed did happen, just as Israel had said it would.

If you still feel this request is "against consensus," could you please cite a source to evidence that consensus? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:C895:9F01:F439:8122:4D69:CEE (talk) 13:27, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 June 2023
Nasser mobilized the Egyptian army into defensive lines as already mentioned in the article except in the lead and in source [55]. That’s of great significance and importance especially in the lead which mentions “mobilizing the army along israel’s borders” without mentioning that, it should be mentioned in this part of the lead.

In the lead,Replace:

In May 1967, Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser announced that the Straits of Tiran would again be closed to Israeli vessels. He subsequently mobilized the Egyptian military along the border with Israel, and also ordered the immediate withdrawal of all UNEF personnel.[32][25]

With:

In May 1967, Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser announced that the Straits of Tiran would again be closed to Israeli vessels. He subsequently ordered the immediate withdrawal of all UNEF personnel and mobilized the Egyptian military along the border with Israel into defensive lines.[32][25][55] 156.200.217.240 (talk) 00:22, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅. Seems reasonable and is in the source. Heavy Water (talk • contribs) 03:02, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Lies about the tanks of Egypt and Syria
Egypt and Syria had enough British, French, American and German tanks, the same centurions and cartridges, for example 37.54.230.242 (talk) 16:23, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Discrepancies about Lebanese involvement
This Wikipedia page on the Israeli-Lebanon conflict has conflicting information on the Lebanese involvement in the 1967 war. It sources state that "Lebanon rejected calls by other Arab governments to participate in the 1967 Six-Day War. Militarily weak in the south, Lebanon could not afford conflict with Israel."

A sentence should be added to mentioning the conflicting reports of Lebanese involvement. Stork19 (talk) 04:42, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 October 2023
The Israel section of this sentence strikes me as wordy:

The Six-Day War resulted in more than 20,000 fatal Arab casualties, with Israeli losses standing at fewer than 1,000 fatal casualties.

Could you change it to:

The Six-Day War resulted in more than 20,000 fatal Arab casualties, while Israel suffered fewer than 1,000 fatal casualties.

Thank you. 123.51.107.94 (talk) 04:30, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 13:55, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 October 2023 (2)
Again, a little wordiness. Please change

nearly the entirety of Egypt's military aerial assets

to

nearly all of Egypt's military aerial assets

Thank you. 123.51.107.94 (talk) 04:32, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 13:55, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 December 2023
Reference 81 links to a broken Archive.org link. The material is still partially available on Archive, but the corrected URL should be "https://archive.org/details/caseforpalestine0000quig/mode/2up". The full reference (fixing both links) would be the following source:

Curlsstars (talk) 21:03, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Map
Not an error, just a stylistic choice that makes the map a little less intuitive. The map at the top starts with Israel in dark blue, then different shades of green, then turquoise—it is a little hard to visualize the gradual attack with such colors. I think the flow of the war could be more easily understood at a glance if, e.g. day 1 was a moderate blue, day 2 a light blue, day 3 a blue-green, day 4 a darker green, day 5 a lighter green, day 6 a lime green. This would create a chronological gradient that would make the map significantly easier to comprehend. 108.147.175.124 (talk) 00:07, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 June 2024
In the section 'Exodus of Arabs...' there is a statement that is followed by 'citation needed' and no citation has been provided: "where they contributed to the growing unrest."

This is clearly biased opinion and is not based on fact - it should be removed if no true source can be found. Whatthetuckman (talk) 18:40, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ Skitash (talk) 18:44, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Israeli expansionist plans
Seems like there is no mention in this article of the fact that Israel had been planning expansionism into West Bank and Gaza ever since the 1948 war? This was detailed notably by Ilan Pappe, who noted that these ambitions and plans had been fulfilled in 1967 war, which goes against the traditional Zionist narrative of having found themselves in a war they "did not start". Makeandtoss (talk) 18:37, 28 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Ilan Pappe is an extremely opinionated source unfortunately, we cannot present his views as straight facts if not significantly substantiated by other sources. In reality there was a deep debate within Israeli authorities whether the West Bank should be captured or not. ABHammad (talk) 08:41, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * "We cannot present his views as straight facts if not significantly substantiated by other sources." This is not true at all, Pappé is a respected scholar and a reliable source, especially for facts. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 18:01, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Pappé is a significant voice, and per WP:NPOV, we must include all significant views. If he is truly in isolation, it can go in attributed; if he is not then it is even more due and necessary. Iskandar323 (talk) 18:13, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Agreed, also, anyway, he is not the only RS to have written about this. Makeandtoss (talk) 12:11, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * See https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-06-03/ty-article/.highlight/israel-said-67-land-conquests-werent-planned-declassified-documents-say-otherwise/0000017f-e738-df5f-a17f-fffe3ac80000 - IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 16:55, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Infobox wikilinks
In the infobox currently, West Bank links to Jordanian annexation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip links to Egyptian occupation of the Gaza Strip.

I changed this so that West Bank links to West Bank and Gaza Strip links to Gaza Strip.

This shouldn't be a controversial change but it has been reverted, with the reverting editor insisting on their objection to this change.

Any input from others?

- IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 21:58, 3 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I reverted back to the longstanding version so as to make it clear that the said territories were not internationally recognized as being part of Jordan and Egypt, respectively. I believe these links provide important, relevant context. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 22:57, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Implemented my version. Kentucky Rain has been blocked as a sock account. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 15:04, 12 July 2024 (UTC)