Talk:Soju

Need citation
Is there a citation available for the claim that most of the current soju brands use watered-down ethanol? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

I've tagged a few other areas that I think need citation. Another editor thinks that's excessive. I disagree. What are your thoughts? I'm happy to chase down these areas I've tagged. Mindme (talk) 12:43, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I've filled in several of the needed citation. Please leave the others. Mindme (talk) 17:16, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

What is?
Is this the same as Jinro or is that another drink? I can't find anything about Jinro on Wikipedia and was kind of wondering what is. --KayEss 19:17, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Jinro is the name of a specific drink maker in Korea which produces soju as well as a rather poor red wine. I seem to recall that Jinro is the largest maker of soju, but then again, I could be mistaken.

Zonath 11:01, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

Continual reverts
The following text (in bold) was removed first by user:Bobbybuilder and then by user:MarkSweep. Both times the only comment were 'rv. vandalism' and 'rvv'.
 * Jinro is the largest manufacturer of soju (70 Million Cases Sold in 2004) and considered the highest quality soju on the market. Like many sojo makers, Jinro makes 3 classes of soju: the Premium class is sold within Korea, Taiwan, Japan, and many European and North American countries. The second class and third class is sold to China, and has larger amounts of impurities.

I guess that they have their reasons for this, but if so it's not been discussed here. Maybe they can explain them? Maybe the people adding it back in can show some sources for the text? — KayEss | talk 05:05, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Is Jinro made by distilling Rice or by diluting ethonol with water and adding flavoring?

Jinro is a manufacturer of many different soju. The common varieties are 'Diluted' sojus. I'm not sure if they do any 'Distilled' soju. One day I might write the expansion in the main article. Maybe. I'd need to sober up first. --Bb3cxv 07:59, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

WikiThuggery at Work?
It is rather interesting that only Jinro soju is featured here in both photograph and links. I am taking the liberty of adding an array of links to other soju producers across the peninsula and on Cheju. Why should only one brand receive all the attention? Are WikiThugs making sure that no other brand is featured here?

63.219.0.9 08:54, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think so... more likely a case of nobody (except apparently for Jinroboosters) really Wikicaring. Thanks for your interest in broadening the article.  I do wonder, though, if we should include any external links to manufacturers. -- Visviva 13:31, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I put up the Jinro soju image because I took the photo for a magazine article and could release a low quality GFDL copy of the image. The article went into cultural aspects of soju such as the specific glasses used, and the only glasses I could get were Jinro branded, therefore I needed to get the matching soju.  The image being Jinro is a fluke.  (Well actually I guess it's a consequence of the pervasive marketing of Jinro, but had it been done 6 months prior it would have been C1).  Throw down whatever brands you please, but perhaps in the form of a brand list with notes separating the distilled from the diluted?  Bb3cxv 11:28, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Wikiplayerhating?
There appears to be plenty of information on competing soju and shochu manufacturers here. Perhaps the reason Jinro is so prominently discussed is because Jinro is the world's best selling spirit (bigger than stoli vodka and bacardi combined) and represents over 70% of the soju consumed internationally.

Main ingredient: Rice?
This page says rice is the main ingrediant.

I'd like to see a source for this. Many foreigners who come to Korea assume soju is made from rice because it's an Asian spirit, and then they tell their friends who are new to Korea that it's "the Korean version of sake." Soju is not the Korean version of sake; Chungju is Korean sake. Any educated Korean will tell you that it was illegal to make soju from rice from 1965 to 1999 (because people needed to eat rice) and it was made from sweet potato and/or tapioca: http://www2.gol.com/users/coynerhm/moving_beyond_the_green_blur.htm

While it is legal to produce soju from rice now, I'd like to see where any soju manufacturing company has said that they have switched back to rice. On Jinro's English page they refer to their soju as a vodka, most likely because they are using potatoes rather than rice. -Jeff

Rice is still much more expensive than other materials commonly used to make soju, and so isn't really used by the major manufacturers of soju. There are some distilleries that use rice to make soju, such as the ones that make "Andong Soju", for example. , but these styles of soju cost a lot more than the mass-produced soju you get in supermarkets -- typically $30-$50 (or more) a bottle.

--Zonath 04:00, 17 April 2006 (UTC)


 * It's not made from rice, so change the article. - Unsigned comment by 68.175.124.28 15 May 2007


 * Comparing it to vodka instead of sake would be a better idea. -- RisingSunWiki 23:46, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with you there, mate. I was always told that it was made from rice, but I knew that they couldn't have done it for legal reasons (I didn't know what legal reasons until now). Ron James 007 (talk) 08:46, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * It seems we are still searching for a good source for this many years later. I've quickly put in an article from the Spruce, a printed publication which makes mention of "sweet potato, barley, tapioca, or wheat" (tapioca starches meaning the same thing as cassava that another editor recently added) or "a combination of starches". So maybe starch is the best compromise for now. I also found a very precise piece from Vine Pair, some sort of commercial drink review publication, citing an accurate ABV value in the 20%s and "starches like wheat, rice, sweet potatoes, and tapioca" as ingredients, but Vinepair seems like more of a commercial/PR/advert-like source and doesn't name its own bibliography. Let me know if anyone thinks it should be something other than "starches" I guess. Techhead7890 (talk) 08:07, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Production?
This paragraph from the article doesn't make sense:


 * "From 1965 until 1991, in order to alleviate rice shortages, the Korean government prohibited the production of distilled soju. Soju was then made primarily through dilution by mixing pure ethanol with water and flavoring. The vast majority of inexpensive soju available today is produced in this manner. The Korean government regulates the alcohol content of diluted soju to less than 35%."

If soju was and is not distilled, then how is the "pure ethanol" from which it is made produced? This paragraph makes it sound like drugstore-bought rubbing alcohol is used to produce soju. Also, is soju a fermented or distilled spirit? List of alcoholic beverages lists it as a fermented spirit. Badagnani 04:42, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

That paragraph could probably be cleaned up a bit to prevent such confusion... I'll see if I can come up with a workable rewrite. --Zonath 05:10, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Main Picture
There are several (actually more than 10) soju brands in Korea. But the main picture is of Jinro, which seems like an ad to me. Janviermichelle 08:53, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Please feel free to provide a better picture. However, please do not simply remove the image, which is GFDL-licensed and appropriate to the topic.  -- Visviva 10:00, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It's a picture of the top selling soju in Korea, right? Seems entirely appropriate. The Cola w/u has pictures of the two leading brands. Mindme (talk) 12:51, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Low Price
"Because of its ready availability and its low price relative to other alcoholic beverages, soju has become one of the most popular alcoholic beverages in Korea."

What is "low price"?


 * That bottle in the picture on the page? (which is, I believe, 360 ml at 20% alcohol.) It costs less than a dollar.

History and vs. Shōchū
There's a comment in the lead-in that states that Shōchū is just a Japanese version of soju. This is completely loaded, and no information is provided elsewhere to support this claim. It needs history and ingredient comparison at least. In general, more history is needed here. The Shōchū article at least discusses the origins as a few different possibilities. 64.172.210.200 22:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

It seems that Japanese "shōchū", Korean "soju" and Chinese "shaojiu" all refer to pretty much the same thing: distilled liquor. The three varieties which exist today taste different and can be considered different products, and probably have been thus distinct for a long time (as a Champagne is different from a Riesling, but both are called wine).

Red Dog statement
Actually its called a white dog because of the color. In Osan there was a bar called Easy Riders that served them. 216.153.166.70 15:20, 20 July 2007 (UTC)chefantwon

The picture and general contents misguide about soju
Due to Jinro soju with its popularity and cheapest price in South Korea, the name "soju" has been tainted. Because originally soju referred to distilled alcoholic beverages with high quality in Korean cuisine such as Andong soju. It is so absurd that some Japanese POV pushers tagged the false category like Category:Korean culture of Japanese origin. Korea, Japan and Vietnam are under the Sino culture and Chinese character was transmitted to Japan via Korea very last. The similarity on names can't be a ground to tag the false category. You can see how the category can be a biased with his/her hatred feeling against Korea. Anyway, I'm working on articles related to old cook books published during mid and late Joseon dynasty for Korean wiki. I've acknowledged that there were countless soju making in past times. This article is just focusing on the manufactured versions of soju. If you want to see the history of manufactured jinro soju or chamiseul soju, go directly to their company sites. --Appletrees (talk) 04:46, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Consistency?
The opening paragraph refers to, “ tapioca (called dangmil in Korean).” If there is gong to be a paranthetical romanization for rapioca… then why not for every other potential ingrediant listed in the paragraph?

Persia
At article Shōchū an editor has been replacing a sourced reference to China with an unsourced reference to Persia. He recently sourced it to a citation of Persia at this article, which is... unsourced. Anyone care to source it, then maybe both problems could be solved? Regards. Dekkappai (talk) 21:10, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks to User:Cypoet‎ and User:Appletrees, this issue has been fixed. Dekkappai (talk) 17:32, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Etiquette
Etiquette section really needs paragraphing. Bulleted lists should be used for listing items that can't be explained through prose. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.211.4.25 (talk) 22:47, 9 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Done. Baeksu (talk) 08:37, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Chamisul or Chamjinisulro?
According to Jinro's web site, the Chinese characters on the bottle are pronounced, so the picture in question is of Chamjinisulro; Chamiseul is a different drink, according to Jinro's web site. Correct? -- RisingSunWiki 16:26, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Jin(meaning "cham" or truth? in korean) and Ro(meaning "isul" or dew in Korean). So it is "Cham-Jin Isul-Ro" if you pronounce both chinese nd korean characters, or it is "cham-isul" if you just pronounce Korean. Janviermichelle (talk) 21:13, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The point I was trying to make is that Chamisul and Chamjinisulro are two different drinks, according to the English Jinro web site. The current picture at the top of the article is of Chamjinisulro, but the caption says it is Chamisul. Shouldn't it be changed? -- RisingSunWiki 02:11, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The bottle described as "Chamjinisulro" on the site is known simply as Chamisul in Korea, the yellow-label version listed on the website as Chamisul is the export brand.. I wouldn't know if the "Chamjinisulro" brand is widely popular internationally, or how it is primarily referred to outwith Korea, but it is hugely popular within Korea, and always known as Chamisul. As the article describes soju in a largely Korean context (etiquette etc.), I would say it's a little bureaucratic to insist on the long / international version of the name.  Dei z  talk 04:08, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I wasn't looking at the export product page. According to the domestic product page, there are three Jinro sojus: gold, chamisul fresh, and chamjinisulro. The image currently in the Wiki article is described as chamjinisulro on Jinro's domestic product page. Also, if you look at the label on the bottle, it says in red English all caps, CHAMJINISULRO. Is it called chamisul by waygookins or Koreans? If it's called chamisul by Koreans in Korean in Korea, then that's the name that should be used. If it's called chamisul solely by waygookins, then the waygookins are wrong. -- RisingSunWiki 13:57, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, everyone in Korea calls it Chamisul, and a lot of people do not even realize that the words "jin" and "ro" are part of the name on the label. Baeksu (talk) 08:51, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm yet to hear the term Chamjinisulro.. however, the "fresh" version has grown in popularity in recent years, and tends to be what you are brought if you ask for Chamisul today. I guess from that standpoint it could be akin to, say, Bud Light becoming the primary brand known generally as "Bud", and a customer having to ask for "Bud Regular" to make sure they got what they wanted. I'm still not convinced the full name is necessary, but would accept that if one brand was known as Chamisul in contemporary usage it would be the "fresh" variant, and it's feasible that you might have to ask for Chamjinisulro to make sure you get the traditional bottle. It may also be that younger drinkers are assumed to prefer "fresh", and older drinkers Chamjinisulro. I'll get into some serious research with the locals.  Dei z  talk 15:49, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Consensus from Koreans I've spoken to (plenty of regular soju drinkers among them) is that they would never ask for "Chamjinisulro" and would be surprised if anyone did.. they might specify that they did or did not want the "fresh" version if they had a preference, but I'm yet to ask anyone who has heard the longer term being used. I think we're fine with Chamisul.  Dei z  talk 03:47, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind
I've reworded the opening paragraph, since rice isn't used for it very often. I hope you guys don't mind. Ron James 007 (talk) 17:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

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Soju, Shochu, Shaojiu
Korean Soju, Japanese Shochu and Chinese Shaojiu all have the same name. Would anyone care to elucidate the relations between the three in this article? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 11:59, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Is there any actual difference between these beverages? What makes them different, other than the language being spoken or the country in which they are sold? —BarrelProof (talk) 10:04, 23 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I think its the same thing but they are doing it in they own way. Japanese clearly object any suggestion that it comes from China or Korea. But thats just their national pride speaking!? They want it to come from Thailand witch is strange.. in that case it should adopt the Thai name or meaning instead of the Chinese or the Korean name. It doesn't compute... Soju and Shochu is made from the same ingredient aswell. Fniss (talk) 16:39, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Discrepancy
In the section titled "Korea", it states that the drink was introduced by the Mongols during the 13th Century, but at the end of the same section it contains a boilerplate cliche of "secret passed down" blah blah from Silla dynasty which is well before 13th Century. Wanna fix that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.228.80.90 (talk) 04:48, 10 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I removed the bit about "secret technique passed down ...". Fee free to add it back in if you can sort out the discrepancy and attribute a suitable source.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.228.80.90 (talk) 09:38, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Why Canada?
Why does the introduction mention soju in Canada and have Canadian prices? Seems pretty irrelevant to soju's story.

"A typical 375mL bottle of soju costs the consumer 1,000 to 3,000 South Korean won in South Korea (roughly $1 to $3 Canadian dollars). In Canada, it costs substantially more – $5.50 ~ $9.25 (depends on brand) [4] as tariffs and excise taxes add onto its original cost price." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Magedq (talk • contribs) 00:52, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Learned from who?
§ Korea says
 * The Mongols had acquired the technique of distilling Arak from the[10] during their invasion of Central Asia and the Middle East around 1256.

From who? The link is to
 * http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2632291

As far as I can tell, it says
 * ë‚´ë¶€ ì„œë²„ ì˜¤ë¥˜ê°€ ë°œìƒí–ˆê¸° ë•Œë¬¸ì— íŽ˜ì´ì§€ë¥¼ í‘œì‹œí• ìˆ˜ ì—†ìŠµë‹ˆë‹¤.

which is not very helpful. I suspect it's in Korean and the device I'm using can't display it; but it's so short I also suspect it says something like
 * 404 File not Found on server

--Thnidu (talk) 04:01, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

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Change Korean page of Soju
When you want the Korean-language version of Soju, I recommend using this page 소주 rather than 한국의 소주 because the former has details and the description about the Soju but the latter talks more about the history. The latter's translated name is Soju of South Korea. 73.151.171.171 (talk) 01:15, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

The glass that soju is drunk in.
Hey guys soju is drunk in a shot glass. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.251.172.76 (talk) 05:34, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Largest selling spirit in the world?
There is a phrase in the overview section: "soju has been the largest selling spirit in the world". This is not supported by the provided references which only claim that Jinro Soju brand was the largest selling spirit brand in the world. Without such qualification the phrase makes a reader think that soju is the largest selling type of spirit in the world, but there is no such evidence.

This phrase could be rewritten to make the statement more specific, but there is already such statement about Jinro Soju brand later in the article. Therefore, I suggest to simply remove the whole sentence. Rarevlad (talk) 07:43, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi! I've just cited this source (which already was cited in the soju article but not after that particular sentence). --Brett (talk) 08:41, 16 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi Brett! Thank you for the reference - it's an interesting article. However, despite what the title of the article claims, the body only provides evidence that Jinro Soju is the largest selling brand in the world, not that soju is the largest selling spirit:

"There's a brand of one particular spirit that sells more than twice as much as any other in the world." So I still consider this sentence uncorroborated and suggest to remove it: "Being 'Korea's most popular alcoholic beverage', soju has been the largest selling spirit in the world."Rarevlad (talk) 11:49, 16 May 2017 (UTC)


 * I cited another source and added the phrase "by volume" to the sentence. 🥃 --Brett (talk) 12:36, 16 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Brett, the articles on vinepair.com and liquor.com both refer to articles on Drinks International website. However, Drinks International does not make any claims as to the overall volume of soju sales. In fact, using their Millionaires' Club stats I found that soju volumes were not the largest. For example, the sum of volumes of Indian whisky is greater than the total volume of soju. If you have any doubts, please verify my calculations. Rarevlad (talk) 13:02, 16 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Oh, if that's the case, the sentence should definitely be removed. (I clicked the Millionaires' Club stats link but the message about how to zoom and pan won't close on my browser. I don't think I have reasons not to believe you.) Thanks! When you remove the sentence, please save the citations I and re-distribute them to some relevant sentences. 🥃 --Brett (talk) 13:12, 16 May 2017 (UTC)


 * I hoped you would double-check it, but had to do due diligence myself :) Just for the record, total soju volume in 2014 was 99.4 million of cases, while Indian whisky volume was 151.2 million. I've fixed the article.

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Cap Color Coding
It seems the alcohol percentage is color coded to the caps - most likely manufacturer dependent ex. chamisul colors white 21%, red 21%, green 19%, blue 16%, flavored — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:168:859B:0:1DA2:EF7E:1D1:5CFD (talk) 13:32, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Ingredients, country of origin
Typical ingredients for soju are listed in the body of the article. Listing ingredients from one brand is misleading as competing brands contain other flavorings, sweeteners and additives.

Soju's origin was the Korean peninsula well before the the split into South and North Korea. Therefore, the country of origin should either by Korea or South and North Korea. Including only South Korea ignores the fact that North Korea shares the Korean peninsula with South Korea. My preference is to change country of origin to Korean peninsula which is more accurate. Sandcherry (talk) 13:24, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Italicizing
I believe italicizing "soju" is the correct move per MOS:FOREIGNITALIC and this search. It's not a widely accepted loan word in English yet. 104.232.119.107 (talk) 08:26, 14 June 2024 (UTC)