Talk:Steve Albini

Recording Process
I'm fairly confident that Steve doesn't rely solely on room mics to get his signature sound. He's well known for using them extensively in his work, but he surely mics each instrument individually and records them to their own dedicated tracks as well. 206.15.76.98 19:17, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

People From Montana
Um, if he's from Pasadena, but mostly spends time in Chicago, where does the Montana bit come in?

Comparison
The article states:

His playing style in the 1980's was often compared to that of Charo, lead guitarist of Black Flag.

Charo was never in Black Flag. Chavo was, but he sang. Greg Ginn was Black Flag's guitarist.

Unsourced claim
The above has now been edited to:
 * His playing style in the 1980's was often compared to that of Greg Ginn, lead guitarist of Black Flag.

which is an unsourced claim that in all likelihood is not true (see WP:CITE). I'll delete it shortly. --- Charles Stewart 15:30, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Drug Music?
From Engineering anecdotes, end of 1st paragraph: Another Albini trademark is his habit of generally keeping vocals "low in the mix," or much less prominent than is usual in drug music.

What's "drug music"? Is this a typo? {unsigned}


 * No, its vandalism. Fixed. --NightMonkey 00:07, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

List of Albini albums?
Can anybody start making a list of albums that Albini has recorded/produced? Then More can aid... {unsigned}


 * Uh, a wikilink is right there in the first section... --NightMonkey 00:04, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Albini with Fugazi
Can anyone find a source for the reference to Albini's work with Fugazi? I haven't been able to find one.

=
==================

There isn't one... wishful thinking on someone's part. Fugazi (at least credit-wise), are entirely in-house with Dischord.

couldn't someone just call him and ask? (j/k)

My only thought is that he recorded a live show in chicago or something...


 * In the Nirvana bio Come As You Are by Michael Azerrad, it says that Fugazi had recorded an album with Albini, but both parties were dissatisfied with the results. 206.15.76.98 19:09, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Albini recorded demos for In on the Kill Taker with Fugazi. - 203.194.16.97 01:19, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Photo
Can someone upload a photo of Steve? He's totally dreamy.

that's sweet, but it doesn't belong here. allow me to GTFY-

https://www.google.com/search?as_st=y&tbm=isch&as_q=&as_epq=steve+albini&as_oq=&as_eq=&imgsz=&imgar=&imgc=&imgcolor=&imgtype=&cr=&as_sitesearch=&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights=

duncanrmi (talk) 14:43, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Italian ancestors
Any citation for Albini's ancestors coim' from Lombardy, close to Milan. In Italy we have regional family names, and Albini is a typical one from Milan and Metro Area. Also the other member of Big Black Jeff Pezzati have surely ancestors from the Milan Province. Both surnames are typicall of that area, and not diffused in othere regions of Italy. Emigration from North Italy started in the XVIII century, 100 years before the one from South, and the largest part of North Italians went to live in California and partially in the Lake District.


 * I've removed the information entirely as it's irrelevant trivia. SethTisue 13:22, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Hardcore bands?
"He has also shown interest in recording modern hardcore bands such as California's Trash Talk and Amsterdam's Vitamin X." Is there a citation for this, or is just gossip? NeutronTaste (talk) 02:32, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Albini's involvement in poker community
I can't believe this hasn't been brought up but steve was an avid poster (read in depth Q and A session) on the popular poker forum two plus two. the thread is incredibly long 50 + pages where steve answered questions for well over a weeks period. it's a great read

Death
If the death isn't a hoax, it needs citation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.7.210.160 (talk) 03:42, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

^Look at the date, Einstein. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.50.225.35 (talk) 04:12, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/62/bbv4life/ask-music-scene-micro-celebrity-1586/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.104.242.4 (talk) 03:17, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Views regarding music sampling
It might be worth noting his views on sampling (as expressed in Copyright Criminals) somewhere in the article. -Grammaticus Repairo (talk) 16:59, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Cooking blog
Spotted in Boing Boing : Albini's Cooking blog While it doesn't count as professional writing, his description of brussels sprouts haters as "the climate-change deniers of food" might qualify as punditry. / edg ☺ ☭ 20:09, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

http://www.negativland.com/news/?page_id=17
http://www.negativland.com/news/?page_id=17 41.204.78.170 (talk) 08:41, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Rick Moranis
It turns out that Steve Albini is the cousin of Rick Moranis. Rick will be recording his new album at Electrical Audio for free. In return Steve Albini will be getting a bit part in the new Honey I Shrunk the Kids movie.King of Bullshit (talk) 12:58, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Troubling past output
NOTE: In summary, Albini was not a pedophile, and neither was his friend Peter Sotos, both of whom you may have heard regarding their mentions of child sex abuse and Sotos' being charged with child pornography. Neither support sexual abuse of children, but rather are open about unfiltered discussion of it and similarly heavy topics, which have been motives for their transgressive art, including Sotos' magazines. You may have come to this talk page because of what a certain terrorist and political troll said about Albini on Medium. Neither the troll nor Medium are reliable, yet at least three users attempted to add the troll's post onto this article, all of which have been reverted. We have a section about Albini's character and a mention of Sotos and this is as much as the matter deserves. Do not add anything unreliable or make an unsourced claim, as it is slander. Carlinal (talk) 00:39, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Part one
Besides the better known stuff from his days in Big Black and Rapeman, which often included stuff about child rape, serial killers etc, he wrote for a lot of underground zines. In a review of his friend Peter Sotos's "Pure" zine (vile stuff about serial killers, child murderers etc) he said "I like that sort of thing", and in his tour diary from Germany he wrote about looking at (and probably purchasing) child pornography, which was still relatively easy to find in Germany in the 80s. Whether he was just being an edgelord or had an actual attraction to this material, it shouldn't be just glossed over. His interview from a couple of years ago with MEL magazine in which he discussed his past as an edgelord and how he's matured since then didn't mention this. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 03:58, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I see mention of this has been removed, and I don't advocate restoring it as it previously read, but it's not "made up nonsense". MaxBrowne2 (talk) 04:38, 9 May 2024 (UTC)


 * But then there are the rules that allow only secondary sources on WP.
 * Porn, with pictures of sexual acts between adults and girls or boys under the legal age, were NOT easily available in Germany in the 1980's. Something like "Teenage Sex" from Color Climax Corporation was sold in "sex-shops": adult girls trying to look really young, beautiful Traci Lords, not exactly petite, was featured once or twice. "Chick" from the Netherlands, a contact magazine with pictures and hardcore stories, sometimes (it said) had pictures of young teenagers. Outside of sex-shops, there were "nudist" magazines with pictures of naked children on the beach, etc.. I am sure, sexual activity was never ever suggested. There was and still is an active censor board in Germany, "for the defense of youth".--Ralfdetlef (talk) 07:57, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The article was from 1988, and he was referring to the Dutch publication Seventeen. Can't say I have any expertise on this subject but apparently the legal age to appear in porn in Netherlands was 16 until about 1985 . 16 year olds who looked younger were no doubt featured, and probably a few actual underage though this would have been uncommon. At these sex shops I'm guessing you could ask for retroactively illegal back issues of Seventeen under the counter, if you could convince the owner you weren't an undercover cop. (Traci Lords was a special case by the way, she looked easily 18 and used a fake ID). MaxBrowne2 (talk) 14:08, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Part two
See https://medium.com/@MoonMetropolis/now-that-steve-albini-is-dead-lets-reflect-on-his-admitted-love-and-promotion-of-child-fadf5072288e for an overview of Albini's pedophilic confessions, including this quote:

"Jaded as I am, I can't help but flip seeing a girl and guy of twelve or thirteen, tops, ramming Martel bottles up each other's asses. These are not the Dutch equivalent of abused trailer-park kids, either. They look to be in excellent health and seem to be honestly enjoying this. Makes all the conventional arguments against this kind of thing seem really silly.

They're kids. Kids like to play with their own and other people's privates. They're just being photographed at it. Now, people who get a voyeuristic charge out of watching them, like me, I guess, well, we've got some grip-on-reality problems. There's maybe 1% of all pornography that has any effect on me, and it's definitely not a turn-on very often. But when it is, and it's as weird as this, it’s pretty hard to take."

And this quote:

"The cover of PURE 2 is a guy holding open a toddler’s puny hole so his spuzz can dribble out. The girl is past crying. She is destroyed.

Like I said, I like that sort of thing."

This should be added to the article. 190.211.102.10 (talk) 11:51, 9 May 2024 (UTC)


 * You sound like you came all the way from twitter to mention this article and post this comment. You should remember that the Albini in the 1980s was a lot more wild than the Albini in the last ten or twenty years because the man chose to grow old and evolve as a person. The Albini you mentioned in this comment is the same guy who had a live photo of a split head as the cover for Headache, worked as a photo retouch artist (this includes viewing and editing out lots of gorey content), and named one of his bands Rapeman. He was a hardcore punk whose character back then was offensiveness for the sake of offending people, and compared to his contemporaries he's unexceptional IMHO. Those days are long past over and he admits his regrets. He's a lot more humble than you'd think, yet keeps the fundamentals of his code.
 * Your comment almost reads to me like you're accusing Kurt Cobain of pedophilia because of the Nevermind cover, which is also greatly ironic for a variety of reasons (see the Nevermind article for more). If you really think this is relevant maybe you should draft a paragraph about Albini's evolution in character and send a link when you're done. Cheers. Carlinal (talk) 15:54, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * How valid is the information given? The guy who wrote that medium article is a known alt-right troll (plus a convicted terrorist). Susrage (talk) 14:06, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Obviously the medium article is completely unusable, but the article should probably mention his problematic contributions to Forced Exposure zine nonetheless. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 14:19, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
 * So Steve did really say all that stuff in the zine and about Pure mag? Are there any other examples of problematic behavior? Besides those two examples, I know he was still friends with Pete Sotos and he was speaking positively about him as recently as 2022 Susrage (talk) 15:34, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I looked over one of the reverted edits mentioning Peter Soros, and then went to Soros's article for a mention of Albini, which led to a reference of an interview with MEL Magazine about him addressing his past use of transgression. It's a follow up to the twitter thread he did when expressing regrets over the Rapeman name, and I'm now further convinced a paragraph or two about his transgressive character should be noted.
 * Otherwise, is MEL reliable? Carlinal (talk) 23:29, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
 * MEL looks like a good source if we want to quote him from the interview. He said some very insightful things. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 02:58, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I think it should be included, given that the current sentence in his personal life section simultaneously jumps to conclusions and uses an improperly formatted external link to an unreliable source (Medium). Isthmus55  (t • c) 14:34, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
 * If anyone tries to introduce that medium article again it needs to be reverted immediately. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 22:02, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Additionally, that second quote is well out of context, per the link you posted there's *four paragraphs* between "She is destroyed" and "Like I said..." If you believe this needs to be mentioned then you also need to accurately quote him. Drjayphd (talk) 17:02, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Note that I have raised this at WP:BLPN. Albini was never charged with any sex offence, and his writings, however vile they may be, are covered by the First Amendment. This is just words, it's not appropriate to label him a pedophile over some shock-jockey stuff he wrote in his 20s. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 00:23, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for submitting the notice. I'm glad the weight of responsibility in language is preserved for this page.
 * Of course, with him now dead, another instance could crop up, but I feel it's unlikely. Carlinal (talk) 23:38, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not really sure, the pure article and the fanzine page are the only two pieces of evidence that I've seen so far. There's no other instances of predatory conduct on Albini's part, the only somewhat questionable thing is his continued support of Pete Sotos Susrage (talk) 23:47, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Both those articles were in Forced Exposure, the Pure review was in issue #7/8, the Tour Diary in #13. I think Sotos was more of a zine shockjock than an actual pedophile too, the focus of Pure zine was serial killers etc, usually described in wildly inappropriate language ("brilliant", "genius" etc). I'm speculating that the picture on the cover of Pure #2 was from one of the Danish or Dutch publishers who could get away with that sort of thing in the 70s before it was explicitly outlawed. There wasn't the same level of awareness of CSA, especially in Europe. CSA material just got lumped in with porn in general and was neither more nor less illegal than "mainstream" porn in most countries. Not making any excuses for anyone, just saying the culture has shifted. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 02:55, 11 May 2024 (UTC)


 * So where do we go from here? A sentence or two along the lines of "During this period, his writings frequently included transgressive material of a sexual or violent nature, including at least two instances in which he appeared to endorse child pornography" followed by appropriate citations? Because people are going to want to introduce this into the article, so let's at least do it responsibly. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 21:52, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I decided to get more involved with improving the article so I may as well discuss the section myself, especially since @Popcornfud also decided to revise this article significantly.
 * The section should be headed "use of transgressive art" or "use of transgression" or something, and have two paragraphs since I believe there's enough info for these two halves to remain independent of each other. The first half discusses the provocative characteristics Albini is known for, most of which is already mentioned here before; lyricism at Big Black, the Rapeman title, his relationship with Sotos, zine stuff and all that. The second half is him reflecting on these characteristics and discussing a growth in character, including twitter thread and sequel MEL interview.
 * This section is probably inappropriate for the personal life section and more in relation to the large views section, since it's more in relation to Albini's career of writing and recording, but I'm willing to hear more feedback on this. Carlinal (talk) 23:19, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * This is a complex area and I haven't started thinking about. As with everything on Wikipedia it will have to begin with how reliable secondary sources are covering it. I'll sink my teeth into it sometime in the next few days or weeks. Popcornfud (talk) 14:42, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Also use the already referenced Evolution of Steve Albini article by The Guardian, August 2023. Discusses a buncha stuff about his change of mind. Carlinal (talk) 02:15, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
 * See it happened again. Much better if we can address it responsibly and include reliable sources, instead of some random asshole coming along and doing their drive-by "Steve Albini is a pedophile" shit. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 14:29, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Why do people keep citing the medium article made by a convicted terrorist Susrage (talk) 16:57, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah. I swear, if this happens a third time the article ought to be semi-protected for a month. Carlinal (talk) 22:04, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Well whaddaya know, third strike. Article submitted for semi-protection request, I'll be damned if it doesn't get it.
 * Jesus, is that post propaganda. I'm surprised no one added a link to MoonMetropolis himself, which should alert some users immediately. (How in the hell is his account not taken down? Regardless some damage has already been done, there's 425+ reactions on that piece of bull.) Carlinal (talk) 06:15, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

pro poker player
Shouldn't his career as a pro poker player be mentioned? See for example https://www.wsop.com/players/profile/?playerid=97925 2601:14D:8A00:9E10:2DAE:5BA7:41C1:FBCD (talk) 05:16, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Wasn't a "pro poker player" but made some significant money at it. Definitely worth a mention as more than a trivial hobby. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 12:47, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Lead is far too big
The lead (or "lede" as some insist on calling it) is far to big. Per MOS:LEAD, it should be a brief summary of the subject matter that follows. Most of it should be either moved to an appropriate section or omitted from the lead altogether. Consider that many people read only the lead of an article. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 23:48, 14 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The lead needs an overhaul imo, but I'm planning to get to it last after sorting through the rest of the article, which also needs an overhaul. Popcornfud (talk) 23:51, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Much as I agree that it's in a transitional state for reading, so is the rest of the article. None of us have really figured out the highlights yet so we're gonna have to wait. The lede is usually the last thing I focus on after editing because it relies on the body, which is unfinished. Carlinal (talk) 01:56, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Yep, plus one to that. Popcornfud (talk) 15:20, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * As the person who expanded the lead from stupid shit to a broad, but perhaps "rudimentary reading level for snobs" overview the day after his death, my advice for the "skilled editors" taking this on is to approach it in summary style...early life, the 3 bands and production....treat each section as if were a lead. But ffs get on with it rather than bitching about it. There are vast sources. Ceoil (talk) 23:24, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * PS Max, I disagree with your premis that if the article body is weak then the lead should be corrispondingly short...if thats all people read, then should the lead not be the main focus. Ceoil (talk) 23:39, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Yeah so I finished revising the lede. Size seems good enough as is, considering such an accomplished punk rocker. Anything else? Carlinal (talk) 00:28, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Emphasis on albums at expense of EPs and singles
It is (or was in the pre-internet days) very common for indy bands to release several EP's and singles. Arguably singles and EPs rather than albums are the mainstay of the punk/hardcore/indy scene. For example while it is true in the literal sense that Big Black released only 2 albums, their EPs, singles and appearances on compilations make up a significant part of their work. When describing or summarizing an indy band's output, EPs, singles and possibly compiliation appearances should be included. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 04:11, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * That's fine for articles on the band's themselves, but per summary style let's establish the context first before we go down the listy route. IMO whats most lacking here is describing Shellac's sound and why it became so influential on post-hardcore. The big danger is that editors pad it out with add a bunch of quoted accolades; which is sooo typical of wiki.Ceoil (talk) 05:14, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The point is that mentioning only albums and omitting mention of their other recordings gives a distorted view of the extent of their output. Big Black's four EPs in particular are significant releases. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 05:27, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * SOFIXIT. But it would be better if you put Big Black in the context of Albini's career first. Drum machine, etc. It puzzels me why you needed to open a section on talk to complain. Ceoil (talk) 05:53, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Um, it's called discussing potential improvements to the article. I think that's what talk pages are for? I'm a bit reluctant to jump in when we've already got 3 or 4 editors currently making extensive changes to the article. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 06:39, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Your wasting my time. Ceoil (talk) 07:34, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * What's with the WP:BATTLEGROUND? It is totally normal practice to raise content issues on a talk page. Stop making it personal. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 11:24, 17 May 2024 (UTC)