Talk:Stevie Wonder

Retinopathy of prematurity
The issue at hand is not the retinal detachment, it is typically scarring and oxidative damage caused by the excess generation of free oxygen radicals. Yes, retina detachment can occur but it is a possible outcome, not the primary one. The text should simply say- he was blind due to ROP. The added detail of "retinal detachment" adds unnecessary confusion. If necessary it could say, because of excess oxygen provided at birth, but the retinal detachment is unnecessary and potentially misleading.

This can be cross-referenced against the page it is linked to.

Citizenship
Wonder's Ghanaian citizenship does not belong in the lede. If this were the case, why is Tom Hanks not referred to as an "American-Greek" actor? Thanks. dekema (Formerly Buffaboy) (talk) 14:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)  dekema  (Formerly Buffaboy) (talk) 14:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)


 * It looks like a very similar case. Do we have any statement by Wonder saying that his Ghanaian citizenship is of less importance to him than his American one? I'm assuming only he could really make that judgement. Perhaps he hasn't had time to make any statement on it yet. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:06, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
 * His citizenship should not reflect what he is. He is not Ghanaian. This is a misrepresentation for those who are of actual Ghanaian heritage. 58.69.9.90 (talk) 02:54, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Citizenship =/= ethnicity. ―Justin ( koa v f ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:50, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * This is just "something else doesn't exist, therefore, this shouldn't exist" which is a very weak argument at best. Do you have any guidance from the MOS? To my knowledge, this is only discussed at MOS:DUALNATIONALITIES. ―Justin ( koa v f ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:50, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't think we need to reference the MoS. This is common sense... has he stated that his Ghanaian citizenship is equal to his American one? dekema  (Formerly Buffaboy) (talk) 04:38, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Has he stated it? what? Who states that? Please undo your edit, as it is sourced. ―Justin ( koa v f ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:42, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The MOS advice is about punctuation, not whether or not dual nationality should always appear in the lead section? But one could argue that it's a simple fact that should be summarised in the lead. Unless Wonder himself makes a statement, it seems fair to assume that he sees them as equally important. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:04, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Then let's go ahead and add it to every celebrity who has a second citizenship. I think this is a bit petty to be honest. Natalie Portman was born in Israel. Do we call her "American-Israeli?" dekema  (Formerly Buffaboy) (talk) 13:52, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * This is the Talk page for Stevie Wonder, so it might be best to just limit our discussion to him? If you have a proposal for defining more clearly how dual-citizenship should be shown in the lead section of all BIO articles, you might be better raising this at a more central location such as MOS:LEAD? Meanwhile it's probably best if you leave the article alone, while consensus is established, rather than edit warring your preferred version. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:16, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Additionally, this applies to categories that were removed/could be added. ―Justin ( koa v f ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:37, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The two top article contributors are Proscribe and SilkTork, so I would invite them to comment. Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:50, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * There should still be consistency among articles, which is why I'm linking to these individuals. We can't just ascribe these things based on a singular event. Again, with many celebrities you will hardly see them referred to as dual citizens in the lede unless they have significant ties to that country, i.e. how Michael J. Fox was born and raised in Canada. Even Tina Turner, who moved to Switzerland decades ago is not referred to as American-Swiss. In that article, no nationality is mentioned in the lede. Maybe that's what should happen here. dekema  (Formerly Buffaboy) (talk) 20:47, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Did you see my comment? You might be better raising this at a more central location such as MOS:LEAD? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:31, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * In the absence of any clear guideline, one might very easily argue that all individuals need to be assessed on their own merits. So what one editor might see as "necessary consistency", another editor might see as an "unnecessary straightjacket". Martinevans123 (talk) 09:57, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Responding to the ping. I don't think I can be of much help here. I'd actually prefer us not to give people's nationality or citizenship in the lead, as these things are trivial yet contentious, and I wonder why we do it. I'd prefer if we are to mention nations (which are arbitrary and can change - the world maps I studied as a child are very different to today's world maps), that we say something more factual and uncontroversial, such as "Stevie Wonder was born and brought up in America" ...."in 2024 he was granted citizenship of Ghana". We don't actually need to say he is American or Ghanaian. I know that Wonder wanted to give up music and move to Ghana and help folks there way back in the Seventies. There was much coverage of that in the music papers at the time. He was talked out of it, and told he could help more African people with his music. The Ghana citizenship is clearly something that is important to him, and a mention of this in the article is appropriate. Should that mention be in the lead? I'd say no. Considering all that he has done and all that he is, the Ghana citizenship is fairly minor and personal. Rather less so than information about his wives and children. Syreeta is a more significant piece of information than the gift of Ghana citizenship from a country which hands out such citizenships for political reasons of their own, but Syreeta is not in the lead. I feel that having the Ghana citizenship in the info box and details later in the article is sufficient. MOS:CITIZEN gives some loose advice, which leans on mentioning dual nationality in the lead only if it is reasonably significant (such as that a person was known as living and working as a national in two countries). A promotional gift is really not a significant reason in my view. SilkTork (talk) 13:33, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * That's all very reasonable, thanks. I'd have to agree that being the recipient of a gift of citizenship is likely to be very less significant than having had to actively win a second citizenship. Leaving it out of the lead section altogether might be a good way of avoiding a tetchy dispute prolonged cordial debate. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:48, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Another possibility might be a footnote next to "American". Martinevans123 (talk) 07:48, 23 May 2024 (UTC)