Talk:Straight edge

Older references to validate.
The article dates it back to the 80's - is there any actual reference material for this? Everything seems to be written in the 2010's claiming it existed in the 80's. The only 80's mention is actually a 2010's article saying a 80's song sung about vegetarianism.

Crass, Conflict, etc.
Veganism in punk music goes back to Crass in the late 1970s. According to members of the Swedish punk band, there is a huge difference between American and European straight edge. It was hyper political in Europe, veganism, feminism, etc. In the USA it was completely apolitical. Dennis Lyxzén of Refused said that in the USA it was a "life style patch" that you would put on when you were to be seen in public.

There is always problems when you deal with radically different cultures like America and European. As a European I read things through secular eyes. I have no concept of religion. In the USA, everything is about religion. Maybe this should be divided into American and European straight edge, because much of the stuff mentioned makes no sense to a European. I guess it's the same the other way around. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.253.73.146 (talk) 15:34, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Crass were vegetarian. I don't know when or if they or individuals became vegan. Certain some, e.g. Steve Ignorant, weren't. Yeah, I know the comment's 4 years old but otherwise, it raises fair points I refer to below. --Danny Mamby (talk) 08:29, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Origins of term
I read an interview with the “Godfather of Vegan Straight Edge”, Patrick “Rat” Poole and it says,

"When was the first time someone used the term Vegan Straight Edge? What’s the world’s first vegan straight edge band and what’s the story of the bands you’ve been involved in prior to the birth of Vegan Reich / Statement?

Ha, well, if you read about Hardline on wikipedia, it states that I came up with the term Vegan Straight Edge. I’ve recently spoken to Sean Muttaqi (Vegan Reich) about this, and he confirms that it was me!"

There's a reference on the Hardline page, but not here. Poole's mention but not relating to this.

As an aside, I find both topics, especially the Hardline one, a little problematic in the way they/it portray the ideas as a "gang code" or rigidly adhered to identity required to be a member of something (that basically didn't exist beyond an op-ed in a 'zine), as if it was Mean Girls. It get worse when claims like "influenced by Islam" are included. I'm guessing they were written by people who weren't alive at the time? --Danny Mamby (talk) 08:17, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Political ideology
Per recommendation from Damien Linnane, raising the issue of what seems like unnecessary muddling in the second paragraph. The sentence "some left-leaning activists" is vague and selectively biased. There is nothing to suggest some right-leaning activists don't view straight edge with hostility. In fact, straight edge as a reaction to the status quo puts it in contrast with the right-wing's adherence to the status quo. The inclusion of the sentence also gives the false impression that straight edge isn't generally left-leaning. Haenfler calls straight edgers "(usually) progressive." To avoid causing misperception, I believe the sentence should be removed or replaced with a more precise statement on the political identity of straight edgers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:600:9180:6AD0:91D5:49C7:DA8:CED0 (talk) 07:15, 16 January 2023 (UTC)