Talk:Swimming in the Dark

Notability
I wonder if this doesn't run afoul of WP:ONEEVENT (as well as WP:WRITER). His only accomplishment so far is publishing a single novel. I'd think the novel may be notable, but he is not notable yet, as there sources about him are just WP:INTERVIEWS and mentions in passing, but the reviews of the novel are likely already sufficient for meeting WP:NBOOK. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 08:43, 13 October 2020 (UTC)


 * This is not logical. On 10/13, you conceded that the novel is possibly notable, but the author is not, so I offered to switch the article from one about the author to one about the book. Now you write that this article is a "shameless promotion" of the book, although the article is still about the author. Without disclosing who I am, I again say that I have no professional or personal relationship with the author, publisher, or anyone associated with the project. I read the book, liked it, thought it was doing something interesting in contemporary literature, and wrote the article on my own. Knowing that LGBT rights are a sensitive subject in Poland just now, I avoided any discussion of contemporary politics there. Your suggestion that the review in "The Evening Standard," a generally conservative newspaper, is biased in the book's favor because you think the reviewer may be gay is not a fair criticism. . . . You invited user:Nihil novi to comment, and s/he observed that many authors with one novel have wiki articles; e.g., Margaret Mitchell. I have no comment or strong opinion about the evolution of the DYK feature. This is my first submission there, and I did it at the suggestion of another editor. Nigetastic (talk) 18:50, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * shameless promotion is putting it in the DYK, i.e., at the Main Page of wikipedia, i.e., undeserved attention. Staszek Lem (talk) 20:28, 14 October 2020 (UTC)


 * If you're saying that you will stop objecting to the existence of the article if I stop suggesting it appear in DYK, I would accept that compromise. Can we agree to that please?
 * If the novel has in fact garnered a notable degree of readership, I wouldn't object to DYK and article.
 * If need be, the article could later be scrapped.
 * Nihil novi (talk) 20:45, 14 October 2020 (UTC)


 * It *is* very notable that a first-time novelist would get a US$100,00+ advance and this much publicity. Most first-time authors get none of either. I publish 4-5 a debut novels a year, and most sell 500-600 copies. "Swimming" had had tremendous success. So yeah, it's unusual in that way. I *agree* with Piotrus that the entries in DYK should have a human-interest intent and not a commercial one, however. That's why I wrote the hook to highlight the literary connection to James Baldwin and "Giovanni's Room." . . . I'm new enough to this that I don't know what the choices are. If I can simply ignore Piotrus's objections, I guess I can sleep on that for a night. My main interest in DYK was just to see how it works and how it fits into Wikipedia life and culture. If ignoring Piotrus's objections is going to make him an enemy, I don't really want to go down that path with anyone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nigetastic (talk • contribs) 06:12, October 15, 2020 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you refer to the comment by User:Staszek Lem? My main concern is how does the subject meet WP:CREATIVE. You are right his novel is reasonalby succesful, but we have to consdier WP:ONEEVENT. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 12:50, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Note: some additional discussion of the subject's notability has taken place on my talk page. I am getting a vague feeling that I am the only one who thinks the subject may not be notable: ping User:Nihil novi and User:Staszek Lem - could you clearly express your thoughts on whether this person passes WP:CREATIVE/WP:NBIO? If all of you think he is notable, I won't object to removing the notability template. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:47, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree that the author is not notable, but the book is. I think the page should be renamed Swimming in the Dark and reorganized to include a short author bio and the rest of the regular sections for a book: Synopsis, Development, Publication, Reception. More reviews should be added. Yoninah (talk) 20:05, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Name: Jędrowski vs Jedrowski
There was some discussion of this on my talk page. I will copy relevant excerpts here (removing small off-topic parts). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:46, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

I moved him per the spelling of his name on Polish sources like. I did not realize he was not born in Poland. But since his Polish book edition uses the diacritic, I think he is ok with it. But it is really strange he chose not to use it for the English publication. This is the first case like this I've seen. Ha. Ping User:Nihil novi for his two cents. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 01:08, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * This writer reminds me of Polish Romantic poet Adam Mickiewicz, who has been described as "a Belarusian poet who wrote about Lithuania in Polish."
 * Tomasz J ? drowski is a German-born novelist who writes about Poland in English.
 * His only novel, Swimming in the Dark, was published in 2020 in the original English; and simultaneously in Polish in Robert Sudół's translation.
 * Since English appears to be his principal literary language, I would be inclined to honor his own choice of surname spelling on the original, English versions of his writings: Tomasz Jedrowski.
 * Nihil novi (talk) 02:28, 14 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Hello there. Speaking as someone in publishing who works with translations--although I have no connection of any kind to this novel, author, or publisher--it's not strange or not strange on Jędrowski's part that "he chose not use it [Polish spelling] for the English translation." The publisher would have made the decision. Also, I think Jędrowski did the translation himself, otherwise the translator's name would have been in the frontmatter or on the book jacket of the Polish edition. This would not be unusual. Nabokov wrote Lolita in English and then translated the novel into Russian himself. Nigetastic (talk) 11:31, 14 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Under "Informacje dodatkowe" ("Additional information"), the following source lists Robert Sudół as the translator into Polish:
 * https://www.inbook.pl/plynac-w-ciemnosciach-tomasz-jedrowski-mobi (link courtesy of Xx236).
 * Tomasz Jedrowski might be viewed as Tomasz Jędrowski's English pseudonym, as "Joseph Conrad" was the English pseudonym of Józef Teodor Konrad Korzeniowski.
 * Nihil novi (talk) 20:04, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Possible sourcing
, here are the sources I found, mostly reviews. I would use them in the basic order as I think the stronger ones are on the top.  Glee anon 07:40, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

possible sources

 * 1st
 * 1st
 * 2nd


 * OMG. This saves me so much time. Thank you. Thank you.

Words
Throughout the whole of the novel the word 'gay' is never used once and certainly not in the context of relationships or sexuality. That is highly significant. Hence, to call is a 'gay' love story is disengenuous and out of keeping with the work as an account of life at the time it was written. 2A00:23C5:7F1F:9401:855C:2CBF:E691:C02C (talk) 11:57, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Gay
I read this novel carefully and it never used the word 'gay' in the context of LGBT or homosexuality. Claiming it is a gay novel is to be deprectated. 2A00:23C5:7F1F:9401:7086:20C9:971:D357 (talk) 13:53, 16 January 2024 (UTC)