Talk:Thames Television

There was a tv show of a kid and a glass piramid with powers, the kid goes to holland... Someone remembers the name of this show?

Could be Chocky. Transmitted around 1984-85 time. Ran to two series as I recall.

Thames Television
A very informative article. I never knew before about documentary Death On The Rock, Margaret Thatcher's government ordered that the new ITV franchises be determined by silent auction. The amount Thames offered for its franchise was significantly less than the money offered by other companies, leading many commentators to speculate that Thames had fallen victim to a government vendetta. All I knew as a kid was Thames (best ITV company) was replaced by Carlton (worst ITV company)

Shouldn't you add a link to TV Ark's Thames pages with the real clips of shows continuity etc. Alextimmins 20:22, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Response: There is no direct link between Death On The Rock and the subsequent Broadcasting Act which launched the tendering system. Whilst the Thatcher government was not pleased with the documentary the more likely chain of events is as follows:

In the late 1980's Mrs Thatcher attended an interview held at 10 Downing Street for Thames' This Week current affairs programme. She is amazed at the number of technicians who attend (around 40) to record a 30 minute interview. She remarks that similar interviews in the same location for US TV networks involve no more than 4 technicians.

Micheal Green, the founder and chairman of Carlton Communications who failed in their bid for Thames in 1985, complains that whilst his company makes many shows for ITV companies it cannot gain access to the network in its own right. The ITV network with its franchise system is a closed shop and leaves his company 'working in the backroom, unable to get into the shop window'.

In a meeting with ITV executives Margaret Thacher lambasts ITV (and the BBC) as the 'last bastion of restrictive practices'. She is right: ITV historically had been crippled by trade unions who had brought the network to a standstill on many occasions (most notably for eight weeks in 1979). Excessive overmanning was still a main factor in the television industry as was the effective closed shop, where private production companies found it very hard to enter the ITV schedules. On the rare occasions they did do they had to have the sponsorhsip of a ITV franchise holder (as opposed to the set-up on Channel Four for example which was much more liberal).

As a consequence of this the Broadcasting Act 1990 was established. The original draft intended to give contracts to the highest bidder alone but subsequent redrafts allowed for the 'quality threshold' which gave lower bidders the opportunity to succeed if their plans allowed for better quality.

Truth was that ITV had become cosy. Way back in the 1960's it was noted that holding an ITV franchise was a 'license to print money'. The creative talent of private production companies was being strangled by a system that effectlively only allowed network companies to make and broadcast programmes. This had to end.


 * All very interesting, but isn't this supposed to be the place for discussing the quality, or otherwise, of the article rather than posting Thatcherite lectures about overmanning? MFlet1 13:06, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Respond: Whilst the closed-shop of ITV had to end the outcome of the Broadcasting Act has led to a homogenous network, where the majority of 'regional' companies are owned centrally and the internal competition between such companies has ended. Although ITV has far more input from small production houses the centralisation of commissioning has led to a very bland output.

Further Response: The phrase 'licence to print money' was uttered by Lord Thomson, the owner of Scottish TV in the mid 1960's. By the early 1970's STV was close to bankruptcy, as was Tyne Tees and LWT, either due to an advertising recession or managerial problems (LWT). Running an ITV company was not always such a certain outcome although there were far riskier things to invest in!. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.252.226.217 (talk) 22:19, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

- The post-1990 destruction of regionalism and the consolidation of ITV into one mega group (pretty much) i'd hardly call a good thing.

- The late Richard Whiteley's autobiography recalls an interview that Mrs T recorded early one morning at Yorkshire TV in 1980. The unionised technicians loved being in early as they could claim huge overtime payments; however YTV management were conscious of accusations of overmanning. As a result only essential staff attended the recording (cameramen and floor manager) and the other staff were given a free breakfast in the YTV canteen whilst being paid overtime rates, just to keep them out of Maggie's eyesight! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.252.226.217 (talk) 22:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Thats horrible
How they shut down in 1992, they had such good and popular programs airing at that time so I don't really understand how it could have happened, the article didn't explain it clearly so could someone explain it? --Elven6 13:01, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd advise reading History of ITV and the section after it, History of ITV. Other good resources are Talk of Thames about what happened to Thames and why, The Authority about what happened to ITV and why, and Inside TV about why it was all a disaster in the end. ➨  ЯEDVERS  13:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

End of Thames
If LWT's page describes their last day why can't there be a description of Thames' - i agree it needs to be sourced. PMA 09:33, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Helvetica font?
Didn't the word THAMES in the ident and on the camera badging use the Helvetica typeface?

Yes. Helvetica was a font invented in the late 1950's but came into popular use a decade later. Designers Minale Tattersfield (who also created the Central 'UFO') adopted the font because of its clear crisp design. Initial idents (from Kingsway-based shows) used the font in white on a black background. When Thames adopted the skyline ident, the white on black design was kept for camera plates and signage at Kingsway, although for signage it was dropped in the move to Euston Road to a lower case version in blue (seen most clearly in the film version of Man About The House). The corporate logo as used on stationery, promotional leaflets, etc, retained the Helvetica font in capital form but in a re-modelled London skyline.

Restructuring of the Page
Hi, Having a look at this page, I feel it needs a little bit of restructuring to get it in order and clear to the reader. Thames was a great company, and frankly we want the page to be nice and clear so that those who had the misfortune to never know Thames can easily learn about them. Personally I would reccomend putting everything into one Histtory section at the top of the page, with sub headinged events such as the bombing, and have sections on Thames studio complex and to expand (if nescessairy) the Presentation section. I am more than willing to do this, however i have already met defensive editors and want everone to understand why i think it should be done.

Opinions are appreciated. Rafmarham (talk) 18:40, 22 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, no one has responded to your suggestion in nearly three years. I agree with you entirely, and am now working on just such a restructuring. In the absence of a proper discussion, I am taking other editors' indifference as consent. Philip Cross (talk) 19:03, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Split
I was wondering whether the article could be split, 'Thames Television' (here) would be about the franchise that operated up until December 1992. With 'Thames (production company)' covering from when the end of the franchise to its merger in to TalkbackThames, as well as its demerger? --  [[ axg  ◉  talk   ]] 15:13, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Disagree. There's almost no content about Thames post-split, and there's a separate Talkback Thames article.  The article's not long enough to demand splitting on length grounds (per WP:Splitting), and it makes sense to cover all versions of Thames together. --Colapeninsula (talk) 17:27, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Last day tv guide
Some one has added this table, Im not sure it should be on the main table.
 * {| class="wikitable"

!Time !Programmes !colspan=2|Thames Television it was officially schedule for closing midnight on Friday, 1 January 1993 at 00:00 GMT. !colspan=2|Carlton Television it was officially schedule for opening midnight on Friday, 1 January 1993 at 00:00 GMT.
 * 06:00-09:21
 * TV-am: "Good Morning Britain with Mike Morris & Lorraine Kelly"
 * 09:25-09:50
 * Animation: "The New Adventures of He-Man"
 * 09:49
 * Clock
 * 09:50-09:55
 * Thames News
 * 09:55-10:15
 * Cartoon: "Doraemon" (with English dubbed)
 * 10:15-12:29
 * Movie: "The Sons of Katie Elder"
 * 12:49
 * Clock
 * 12:30-12:50
 * ITN News
 * 12:50-13:00
 * Thames News
 * 13:00-13:30
 * Australian Drama: "Home & Away"
 * 13:30-15:00
 * Movie: "Cheetah"
 * 15:00-15:05
 * Headline News: "ITN News"
 * 15:05-15:10
 * Headline News: "Thames News"
 * 15:10-15:35
 * Drama: "Take The High Road"
 * 15:35-15:44
 * Cartoon: "Tom & Jerry" (including: Hollywood Bowl, Mouse in Manhattan & The Bodyguard)
 * 15:45-17:39
 * Drama: "B&B"
 * 17:39
 * Clock
 * 17:40-17:55
 * Early Evening News
 * 17:55-18:00
 * Thames News
 * 18:00-18:30
 * Australian Drama: "Home & Away"
 * 18:30-19:00
 * Drama: "Emmerdale"
 * 19:00-20:00
 * Drama Documentary: "Murder at the Farm: Who Killed Carl Bridgewater?"
 * 20:00-20:30
 * Drama: "The Bill"
 * 20:30-22:29
 * Drama: "John le Carré A Murder of Quality"
 * 22:29
 * Clock
 * 22:30-20:45
 * ITN News
 * 20:45-23:52
 * Compilation: "The End of the Year: The Best From Thames"
 * 23:52-23:53
 * Closing Ceremony of Thames Television: "CEO Richard Dunn"
 * 23:53-23:55
 * Final Broadcasts on Thames Television
 * 23:55-23:59
 * ITN News: "Special New Year 1993 with Dermot Murnaghan"
 * 23:59
 * Clock & Countdown New Year 1993: "Goodbye 1992" (Live at Big Ben)
 * 00:00
 * Greetings New Year 1993: "Welcome 1993" (Live at Big Ben)
 * 19:00-20:00
 * Drama Documentary: "Murder at the Farm: Who Killed Carl Bridgewater?"
 * 20:00-20:30
 * Drama: "The Bill"
 * 20:30-22:29
 * Drama: "John le Carré A Murder of Quality"
 * 22:29
 * Clock
 * 22:30-20:45
 * ITN News
 * 20:45-23:52
 * Compilation: "The End of the Year: The Best From Thames"
 * 23:52-23:53
 * Closing Ceremony of Thames Television: "CEO Richard Dunn"
 * 23:53-23:55
 * Final Broadcasts on Thames Television
 * 23:55-23:59
 * ITN News: "Special New Year 1993 with Dermot Murnaghan"
 * 23:59
 * Clock & Countdown New Year 1993: "Goodbye 1992" (Live at Big Ben)
 * 00:00
 * Greetings New Year 1993: "Welcome 1993" (Live at Big Ben)
 * Final Broadcasts on Thames Television
 * 23:55-23:59
 * ITN News: "Special New Year 1993 with Dermot Murnaghan"
 * 23:59
 * Clock & Countdown New Year 1993: "Goodbye 1992" (Live at Big Ben)
 * 00:00
 * Greetings New Year 1993: "Welcome 1993" (Live at Big Ben)
 * 00:00
 * Greetings New Year 1993: "Welcome 1993" (Live at Big Ben)
 * Greetings New Year 1993: "Welcome 1993" (Live at Big Ben)
 * 00:00-01:30
 * Special Launching of Carlton Television: "A Carlton New Year with Chris Tarrant" (Live at Trafalgar Square)
 * 01:30-03:15
 * Movie: "Best Defense"
 * 03:15-04:55
 * Movie: "Mike Hammer: Murder Takes All"
 * 04:55-05:54
 * Music Event: "Back Track 1992"
 * 05:54
 * Clock
 * 05:55-06:00
 * ITV Morning News
 * }
 * 05:54
 * Clock
 * 05:55-06:00
 * ITV Morning News
 * }
 * }


 * I would Oppose this edit. What does this lengthy inclusion possibly add to the article? For the most part it is a rather nondescript schedule of predominantly networked ITV content. The only things of notes are the special 'farewell' programming that was aired, which is already mentioned. -- Fursday 14:32, 1 September 2013 (UTC)


 * it definitely shouldn't be in the article, because it's obviously not correct. Thames never screened Tom & Jerry or Doraemon, for example, and there was no "Carlton New Year" programme with Chris Tarrant either. Also WP:NOTVGUIDE. Bonusballs (talk) 08:18, 26 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I removed an extended resume of Thames last day on air earlier today. I agree with the editors above. Philip Cross (talk) 12:15, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
 * One particular unregistered editor has been persistently adding the "End of broadcasting" section back into the article, and reverting any attempts to correct his atrocious grammar, periodically for the last several years. I reluctantly agree that this section should simply be cut rather than kept and rewritten (as I've done in the past); while it's of some interest to those studying the 1992 franchise round, at the end of the day it's far too detailed for Wikipedia and the subject is covered more thoroughly by the articles on Transdiffusion and elsewhere. CNash (talk) 23:38, 13 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Its back again I don't know WHY there keep on putting on the incorrect information, But for Ref here are the correct listing just in case anyone spots it again. --Crazyseiko (talk) 17:27, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

09:25 HE Man. 09:50 Thames news 09:55 Cartoon time 10:00 Movie: "The Sons of Katie Elder" 12:30 ITN News 12:50 Thames News 13:00 Home and away 13:30 Movie: "Cheetah" 15:00 ITN and Thames news 15:10 Take The High Road 15:40 Cartoon time 15:45 B&B 17:40 ITN News 18:00 Home and Away 18:30 Emmerdale 19:00 Murder at the Farm: Who Killed Carl Bridgewater?" (Last and Final Episode) 20:00 The Bill 20:30 John le Carré A Murder of Quality 22:30 ITN News 22:45  End of the year show 23:55 News 00:00 Carlton New year 01:30 Best Defense 03:15 Mike Hammer: Murder Takes All 04:55 Music Event: "Back Track 1992"

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