Talk:Tony Benn/Archive 1

Privacy and the Queen
"He proposed issuing stamps without the Sovereign's head, but this met with private opposition from the Queen." The source link is rotted. But here's |the British Postal Museum saying, "At an audience in November The Queen informed the prime minister, Harold Wilson, that she did want her head to appear on all stamps, but would approve the use of a silhouette format. Fearing a political row, Benn accepted the situation but pressed ahead with the use of a cameo silhouette." Are the Queen's chats with the PM private, or are they State business? Anyway, how about dropping the word "private"? OK? Wegesrand (talk) 13:28, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Personalities versus Issues
Why is Benn's most famous 'catchphrase' not in the quotations section

Popular Culture
What about Michael Moore's Sicko, or Da Ali G Show?

Repetition about his father
The article repeats, within a few sentences, the bit about his father being elevated to the Lords, word by word; do you think that one of these utterances should be deleted? I find that particular piece a little disorientating.


 * Yes, its fixed now. Philip Cross (talk) 14:59, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Photo
What an awful photo. Also need education details.

How about this photo? No harsh flash lighting. Still not perfect I know but a bit better mabey. Benn was telling someone he was going to march but that he wasn't sure he'd make the whole thing as he's getting old.--JK the unwise 21:02, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
 * It's better than the one that's there right now & while not perfect should do at least until a better one appears. AllanHainey 08:07, 28 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Courtesy of Josh Benn we have a new photo. I think it looks great, if you agree post your thanks below and I'll pass them on. --Brianmc 21:55, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Brother: Michael Benn
this perhaps ought to mention that his brother was originally supposed to inherit the title, but ended up dying without children. Morwen - Talk 15:11, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Two factual questions
Hello, just two points I wanted to raise for someone with perhaps more expertise to have a go at answering. First, it doesn't sound quite right to my ears that the Queen 'vetoed' the measure to remove the Sovereign's head from postage - this would presumably mean a refusal of Royal Assent, which my rather strong impression is hasn't taken place since Queen Anne. Second, at bottom there's a note that the viscountcy Mr Benn would have inherited has no successor by virtue of its having been disclaimed; my impression on this point is that under the Peerage Act of 1963, such disclaiming is only valid for the life of the person who would have succeeded to the title. Stephen Benn would, presumably, acquire the title upon his father's death, unless he himself takes measures to disclaim it.

The story of the park bench is, incidentally, extraordinarily sweet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Patrickbelton (talk • contribs)


 * I suppose the intention of the "succession box" is to say that he was Viscount until 1963, and then nobody was; hence his successor was the vacancy caused by him disclaiming. It might be preferable to say "Viscount Stansgate (disclaimed)" in the middle box and "heir apparent - Stephen Benn" on the right, but there may be arcane rules governing these things...


 * I agree that "vetoed by the Queen" is slightly misleading shorthand; in fact it seems she didn't do anything at all, except dislike the proposal and talk at length to Harold Wilson about it. Her displeasure was sufficient to ensure that the Post Office wouldn't do it, whatever Benn told them to do. It's hard to express that without making the paragraph a bit lopsided, and I haven't time to put the work in.


 * Does that make sense? --rbrwr&plusmn; 20:47, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Popularity Extremely Questionable
i would dispute that Tony Benn is popular compared to others generally.

More likely he has a vociferous minority of ultra-left supporters like George Galloway.

I would suggest the popularity aspect of the artice be removed.


 * As clearly stated he was voted greatest political hero of all time on BBC politics, a mainstream politics show. I suggest that the proposals made by this contributor are more bias than those he / she wishes to correct**

On the centre to centre right wing spectrum he is a figure of riducule.

A neutral description would be fine


 * Benn's reputation is nothing like Galloway's, and wasn't even at the peak of Benn's unpopularity with the media in the early-to-mid 80s. A Tory backbencher has since commended Benn to fellow MPs as Britain's "greatest living Parliamentarian." He is now respected by many as a man who has strong values and ideas and articulately speaks his mind, even if often they disagree with his opinions. His show is successful and his books sell well. His reputation has changed a lot from when he was a controversial figure in the 80s; the word "rehabilitated" has been used sometimes. I agree that it would be better to describe this in more detail with sources, maybe quotes. Rd232 talk 21:42, 10 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I think something should be put in about Benn's opposition to the Falklands War. He is a bit quiet about it now, since few would argue that the war was needed to free the Islanders from a brutal Argentinian dictatorship, and had the happy side effect of a dictator in Argentina being replaced by a democracy.  But the war was one of the most important political events of Benn's career and his position on it should be set out JRJW


 * I suspect that most people from either side of the spectrum would accept that Benn is a popular and charming politician (although to be fair, at a time when politicians are particularly unpopular and lacking in charm). One shouldn't confuse personal popularity with the popularity of a person's political viewpoints; certainly Benn's are generally not embraced amongst the population (excepting perhaps his stance on Europe, and maybe a watered-down version of his anti-war stance) and rarely have been. That does not change the fact that he is viewed as a politician of personal charm, intelligence and conviction by most of those who have any engagement with politics, whatever one (myself included) may think of his actual politics. I am surprised to hear it said that he is a figure of ridicule amongst centrist voters and commentators (I do not think this is the case), although I expect it may be so amongst more right-wing segments of society (although see the wikipedia article on arch right-winger Enoch Powell for an interesting viewpoint). I would also suggest that more than a 'few' may disagree with the Falklands War- the readyness to use force over negotiation, the general conduct (e.g. Belgrano etc), and perhaps some unease regarding the khaki election that followed, given the prevailing domstic situation previously. The way the above correspondent portrays the situation is as if the islanders would somehow be abandoned to Nazi-style occupation; in fact, none were killed or injured during the weeks of the occupation and as I recall the plan was for them to be repatriated to the UK (that is not to say that I am in any way implying that this would have been acceptable). Anyway, this is not the forum for a political debate. As regards Benn's rep, the above choice of words (rd232) is reasonable but the prose could do with a bit of brushing up in places, and as you say the best way to couch these (by their nature POV) phrases and statements, (unavoidable in an article of this type) is by way of quotes. Badgerpatrol 14:07, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I think it's clear that he is popular as politicians go. If the television channels regularly interview him, use him occasionally as presenter, depsite the fact that he holds no political office now, it is becaus ethey think people want to see him. Also the fact that he is an old hand in politics, but speaks directly to people whether or not he agrees or disagrees with them is much respected. In recent years you can see him on demonstrations - and not just on big ones, but on assmblies of a couple of hundred people protesting against the sacking of a union representative for example Johncmullen1960 06:17, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


 * As my mother said, Benn sounds extremely plausible - until you read what he actually said, whereupon you realise that he's a nut. He is neither popular nor plausible. Darkmind1970 09:29, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Tony Benn recently won the BBC poll on Britain's favourite politician. Nor is he necessarily a figure of ridicule on the right, eurosceptics like Peter Hitchens tend to admire him and he has a long-standing friendship with the former liberal leader David Steel. Philip Cross 10:59, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * David Steel is hardly a right-wing political figure- but I certainly agree with your substantive point. Badgerpatrol 11:07, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The passage above I was responding to says this: "On the centre to centre right wing spectrum he is a figure of riducule." Steel would not put himself 'on the left'. In any case, I probably should have referenced Cristina Odone whose positive personal view of Benn is more easily demonstrated. OK, she is a former deputy editor of the New Statesman, but she has not identified herself as being 'of the left' and would think of herself as being in the political centre, I think. Philip Cross 11:59, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * He's very popular, across the political spectrum, for the reasons outlined above. 'The Benn Tapes' were a huge sucess, as were his written political diaries.Felix-felix 14:42, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Third generation of family in Cabinet
The article states this is a unique distinction. What about the Hoggs/Viscount Hailsham? We have Douglas Hogg, 1st Viscount Hailsham, Quintin Hogg, Baron Hailsham of St Marylebone and Douglas Hogg, 3rd Viscount Hailsham who were all Cabinet members. Catchpole 21:28, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I think at least four consecutive generations of Cecils/Marquess of Salisbury were. The Stanleys/Earl of Derby are also a contender, though I think there's an uncle to nephew in there (along with a son predeceasing the father). Timrollpickering 02:19, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Having just checked, the 16th Derby was in the Cabinet as well, so there's four generations (14th Earl, 15th & 16th - brothers, 17th, 17th's eldest & younger sons). The Cecils are a little easier - the 2nd through 5th Marquess are all father-son and all in the Cabinet, though a few other sons pop in as well. The Cavendishes/Duke of Devonshire may have also qualified. Timrollpickering 02:27, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

The above are noble families - should the sentence be rewritten to the effect that Tony Benn is a third generation #commoner# politician (even if there is a title, in abeyance). A comment on Hilary Benn as a fourth generation politician might be appropriate. Jackiespeel 16:59, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The Hoggs aren't exactly nobles either and if Quintin Hogg had succeeded in his campaign for peerage renouncements about a decade earlier than Benn then he would never have sat in Cabinet with a hereditary peerage. Timrollpickering 14:08, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Radical?
The latest edit has removed the word radical from the opening paragraph. I am hardly NPOV on this - huge Benn fan, personally and politically - but I have no problem whatsoever with him being described as a radical and I doubt the man would either. he clearly stands for a radical change in society through the pursuit of radically different politics than that of the Labour leadership, for example. Perhaps we could hear some more from others on whether "radical" is appropriate here or not? Cois na Camac 19:45, 23 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with you entirely. 'Radical' is not, and should not be thought of as, a pejorative term. I think almost everyone agrees that Benn is a 'radical' in the sense that most people probably don't agree with him- that doesn't make him wrong, and it sets a dangerous precedent if the term 'radical' is automatically assumed to have overtly negative connotations (I am thinking particularly of the manner in which the noun 'liberal' appears to have been hijacked by the American right (and to a lesser extent by e.g. Blair and Blunkett in the UK)). A purely descriptive term and should be reinstated and retained. Cheers, Badgerpatrol 21:59, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Similarly someone wanted a citation on my sentence that Benn became more Left wing after he was a minister. I Think this is general knowledge - he says so himself and Left and right agree (happily or sadly). I think in general in an English language wikipedia there is bound to be some political vocabulary problems. In the US and in Britain "liberal" "radical" "socialist" have quite different meanings, and I have no idea what they mean in India, Australia etc Johncmullen1960 06:20, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Blue Blood
I have a distant memory of Benn showing a vial of his blood which he had taken just before the renunciation of his peerage, whilst it was still "blue". Although a petty sounding anecdote, i think it is a nice illustration of his views and personality and would be worth mentioning at the end of the Peerage Reform Paragraph. Anyone have any back up for this tale?

As an aside (and I wouldn't dream of suggesting it for the main article) you had to admire Benn in his Ali G interview. Nobody else was confident enough in their idiology to stand up the provocotive Mr. Cohen Epeeist smudge 12:02, 14 March 2006 (UTC)


 * This was around 1988-89 in a Channel 4 documentary related to his diaries. Unfortunately, imdb does not list it, so without more research, I cannot be more specific. Philip Cross 10:40, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I've just heard him present the same anecdote today. I think a personal claim by Tony makes it as legitimate as it can be without physical sighting of the vial in question. SteveLoughran (talk) 21:29, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

POV
The family section seems to be full of POV and fluff... TastyCakes 00:34, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

St Clair
According to this, didn't take the Chiltern Hundreds but the Manor of Northstead - which is correct? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stewards_of_the_Manor_of_Northstead

Tramp?
A cartoon by Carl Giles, published in the Sunday Express on April 14th, 1985, refers to "a tramp moved in at the bottom of the garden, like Tony Benn." Can something about this be added? -- Auric 23:29, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


 * How exactly? ie in what context? To compare Michael Foot to a tramp at the bottom of the garden might at least be comprehensible but Tony Benn? SqueakBox 23:46, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The full line is "No, we haven't got a tramp moved in at the bottom of the garden, like Tony Benn - that's Dad." and implies that an actual tramp had moved into Tony Benn's garden. -- Auric 23:52, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Aah, well put it in a trivia section if you like, if its sourced then nobody should object, SqueakBox 23:58, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer to know the context of the cartoon before it gets included, if at all possible. Saying that Tony Benn was once compared to a tramp in a political cartoon in the Sunday Express is a little meaningless unless we understand the background as to why the comparison was made. Usually these comparisons are a slight twist on a current story covered elsewhere in the media, do you have any idea what story it was relating to? Road Wizard 06:36, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying that "Tony Benn was once compared to a tramp in a political cartoon," I'm saying that it seems that Tony Benn once let a tramp live in his garden. -- Auric 13:59, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, my mistake. I misread your comment and misinterpreted the caption. However, if this is placed in a section for trivia, I would suggest a more careful wording for the statement. Perhaps,
 * A tramp lived in Tony Benn's garden for a time in the 1980s, which led to political cartoonist Carl Giles publishing a cartoon in the Sunday Express with the caption "No, we haven't got a tramp moved in at the bottom of the garden, like Tony Benn - that's Dad."
 * Would this wording be acceptable? Road Wizard 17:19, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Fine by me, and this has the ring of authenticity about it, Benn being your classic left wing do-gooder but sartorially elegant, SqueakBox 17:24, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It's a bit convoluted and the tramp story may be apocryphal, like the baa-baa white sheep stories featured in the press in the 1980s. Catchpole 17:42, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

multi-millionaire
Has anyone got a link that proves he is a multi-millionaire? I added this fact to the bio and it was deleted.


 * If you can find a reliable citation, please add it in again. Bobo12345 01:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think you'll find a citation. I imagine that Benn's finances are kept strictly private. But he must be comfortably a millionaire, since both the Wedgwood and Benn families were very prosperous, as was his wife's family. His house in Holland Park must be worth a lot in its own right.Bill Tegner 09:50, 22 February 2007 (UTC)--Bill Tegner 09:50, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

North sea energy policy I always believed that one of Benn's greatest achievments was keeping a significant proportion of Britian's North Sea oil revenue out of the hands of the large Americain Multi-nationals. I once saw he speak about it and it was gripping. Could somebody who knows more about this than me add soemthing. I think its a really imporant part of British history

Thanks 80.202.244.252 23:44, 11 December 2006 (UTC)John

Christian Socialists category
I removed the 'Christian Socialists' category. I'm not sure it's correct to call Benn a christian, since I don't think there's evidence that he either believes in God, or an afterlife, or that he attends a Christian church. He's clearly very sympathetic to the *form* of religion, if not the content, and particularly the teachings of Jesus, and that's also influenced his socialism, but I'm not sure that qualifies him to be a 'christian socialist'. He seems to describe himself an agnostic, or 'lapsed agnostic' or even 'christian agnostic'. I reckon that's enough to disqualify him as a christian -not being one myself I might be wrong. Feel free to quibble if you disagree! --82.45.163.18 14:28, 18 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Tony Benn cites Keir Hardie's opposition to "churchianity" when asked about his relationship to christian denominations and describes himself as someone absorbed in the teachings of Jesus Christ in interviews. Philip Cross 12:59, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Tony Benn is in fact a practising Methodist. He mentions this numerous times in his Diaries. I'm not sure whether I'd go as far as calling him a Christian Socialist but he certainly believes in God and seems attend church services regularly. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HighburyVanguard (talk)


 * In an interview in the 1970's, Benn was asked if he believed in God - the reporter said he prevaricated a great deal but finally said "no". Non-belief doesn't seem to be a problem for the CofE, but does he mention changing his mind in the diaries? Apepper 15:19, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

War Service
Tony Benn served as a pilot in the RAF and then the RNVR during and after the war. I have a feeling that he was decorated (I read it in an Oxford newsletter). Whether he omits this in his publicity through modesty or because it doesn't fit his image, I'm not sure. I would have thought that to be decorated in a war against fascism was something to be proud of. The most I've heard him say is that he's "an old RAF pilot".Bill Tegner 09:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)--Bill Tegner 09:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * He viewed his war service as having been "undistinguished" in his Desert Island Discs appearance in 1989. Philip Cross 12:59, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Dubious grammar.
The following sentence should be changed, but for pure comedy value it might be better to leave it as it is. "In November 1960, Benn's father died and as a result he was prevented from sitting in the House of Commons." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Druidus (talk • contribs) 19:11, 16 April 2007 (UTC).

NPOV required I think
To me it reads almost as a eulogy.

Why no criticism section? Why nothing about Benn's speaking and approach to responding to journalists questions?

Popular across the political spectrum? Come off it.

Does anyone have any issues if I attempt a section? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.111.168.25 (talk) 10:50, 23 April 2007 (UTC).

It lost my signature - Matt.

Flanders and Swann
On the sleeve notes of the Flanders & Swann box set, it says that Benn produced their first show together at Oxford; before Flanders lost the use of his legs to polio. Shouldn't this be added to the trivia section?

Apepper 15:21, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Not really significanrt enough for inclusion, I would have thought. Philip Cross 18:26, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Brother a Twin?
I'm pretty sure that I have seen Benn state that his brother (who was killed in the war) was his twin. Anyone confirm that? Gavin Bl 155.136.80.160 10:26, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


 * No, this is not true. Philip Cross 21:55, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

URGENT! interview
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Story_preparation/Interview_with_U.K._statesman_Tony_Benn

Tony has sent me his phone number in order to do an interview for Wikinews, anyone who has this page on their watchlist should add questions to the above ASAP. Wikinews can be used as a source for Wikipedia, so if there are details you'd like to get in the article ask. --Brianmc 08:50, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Interview is done, follow the above WN link to an ogg of it - about 35-40 minutes long. Help with transcribing it would be appreciated. --Brianmc 08:38, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Nepotist/Hypocrite
Should really be a frank discussion about his ridiculous assertion that his grand-daughter (who has yet to sit her 'A' levels) was selected as a Labour Party Candidate at the next election entirely on her own 'merit'- has he really wasted his entire lifespan destroying one unjust hierarchy and replacing it with another... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.225.127.87 (talk) 00:43, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Falklands
Why is this being deleted? The information is sourced from a reputable polling organisation that adheres to the rules of the British Polling Council. I see the sentence immediately proceeding it ("...apparently unaware of Benn's RAF service and the loss of his brother Michael in World War II") is editorialising but is left alone. This article is supposed to be a biography, not a hagiography.--Johnbull 20:06, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree that no Wikipedia article should be a hagiography, and indeed this article could benefit from a criticism section as there are few third party comments about Tony Benn included, but the poll details you cited added nothing. I have removed the preamble you quite rightly see as pushing a point of view. Philip Cross 20:32, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Why does the poll add nothing? Out of all the politicians questioned, people's opinion of Benn went down further than anyone else mentioned&mdash;that is notable. The popularity of Benn with Labour activists stays but his unpopularity with the wider population, for some unexplained reason, is "irrelevant" and "adds nothing".--Johnbull 20:44, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The statement by Margaret Thatcher is apparently included because it offers some counterpoint to Tony Benn's position on the Falklands War. The insertion of the phrase "apparently unaware of Benn's RAF service and the loss of his brother Michael in World War II" gives some rationale for Thatcher's statement. Without it, how do we make sense of her comment, in light of what this encyclopedia entry tells us about Benn's wartime service and his family's sacrifice? 98.212.130.236 (talk) 02:19, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Standing for Kensington
Ought it not be mentioned that Mr Benn seeks to stand as Labour candidate for Kensington against (presumed) Sir Malcolm Rifkind? HasanDiwan 18:43, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Not the first to renounce his peerage
My recollection from reading his memoirs was that he was in fact beaten in the "race" to renounce his peerage. It is true that he did renounce his peerage on the first day it was possible to do so. He described that on his way to the House of Lords where he needed to file the necessary paperwork, someone else, (I think another peer with a left of centre views) was on his way out having already done so. I think he may even been as low as the third person to renounce his peerage? It seemed it was something that the authorities had pre-planned, since the Policeman greeted him with a"Good Morning My Lord", (or whatever the correct form is for a Viscount) on the way in to the Houses of Parliament, but he said "Goodbye Mr Benn" when he left the building- this suggest a smoothly oiled machine was in operation! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.254.186.173 (talk) 00:43, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

War service
According to the New College (Oxford) Register, Mr Benn served in the RAF from 1943-45 and the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve from 1945-46. I have also read, but cannot produce an exact reference, that he won the DFC and DSO. I am not sure why he does not publicise this. Does he feel that it damage his left wing credentials? Millbanks (talk) 22:30, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I suspect you are recalling a reference to his dad William Wedgwood Benn who won DSO and DFC in WWI. Domminico (talk) 13:55, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Europe
Like many Labour politicians Mr Benn became "anti-Europe" in the 1970s, though according to Tam Dalyell he was in favour before his shift to the left. Thirty years ago, to be pro-Europe was considered right wing. Now it is the right wing that are against the EU. But as far as I know, Tony Benn would still categorise himself as a Euro-sceptic, though speaking recently on a Sinn Féin platform against the Lisbon Treaty, he said that he had "no wish to return to the old Europe" (source, Irish Times). Quite what he meant by that, I'm not sure. Perhaps he was trying to identify with the Sinn Féin policy of being cautiously pro-EU. Millbanks (talk) 22:41, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think he's become pro-EU, I haven't seen any evidence of that. What I think he meant by "old Europe" was the national rivalry between European states which caused wars. If I remember correctly, he once favoured a 'Commonwealth of Europe', an association of independent, sovereign states that would freely co-operate together, rather than the EC which diluted sovereignty and prevented socialist economic policies.--Johnbull (talk) 19:01, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

"All the Common Market countries except the UK have been occupied by Germany" Oops! Tony slips up again. Ireland hadn't been occupied by Germany. Though it had been occupied by the British, as indeed had Germany and France. The British have always been partial to diluting other countries' sovereignty.


 * Scratch the surface and you'll find that the British (and this seems to include Tony Benn) have never come to terms with the fact that Ireland is a foreign country. Poshseagull (talk) 10:22, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Benn's "shift" in views are easily explained by a dislike of other European states organising themselves without respecting Britain's desire to control the balance of power. This is followed by gradually coming to terms with the fact that the world has changed and the realisation that Britain can't just send in the navy if it doesn't like the way things are going. Hence the hand-wringing and the pontification about the "bureaucratic and centralised" Common Market/EEC/EU. Was he ever as exercised over Britain's alliance with the Portugal of the dictator Salazar I wonder? What a clown (Benn, that is.)! 193.120.116.180 (talk) 18:34, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Benn2007.jpg
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Vegan not vegetarian?
An article in the Independent from 2005 quotes Tony Benn saying he is vegan (see: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/columnists/pandora/a-smoking-gun-labour-mp-found-on-tobacco-firm-hit-list-503324.html ). How should this - or, indeed, should it - be incorporated into the article given that he is almost universally referred to as a vegetarian? --Richardob (talk) 00:51, 10 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Have a Google and see if you can find any other references. I had a quick look, but it seemed most were referring to that same article. Perhaps Benn himself made a slip-up, seeing as it was an off-the-cuff remark. Or perhaps he was misquoted.


 * You could simply include that quote on his Wikiquote page and let people decide for themselves. Anyway, as far as your heading for this discussion is concerned, being vegan surely doesn't make him "not vegetarian". So the article as it stands isn't incorrect.  J Rawle  (Talk) 20:39, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Education info
Why not stick his educational background on the info box? --Andy Fugard (talk) 13:53, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Note on the "asking permission" being an excercise in futility quotation
He is known for saying (in connection with his placing of a plaque in memory of Emily Davison in the House of Commons) "Never ask the authorities for permission - it takes up so much of your time!"


 * While this may be accurate; the sentiment is hardly original to Tony Benn, but at least a variant attribution of it is predated by the observarion connected with Admiral Grace Hopper to the effect that: "It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission". -- Cimon Avaro; on a pogostick. (talk) 13:38, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Claim
Tony Benn claimed that Ress-Mogg was in the British Army in the 2nd. World War. See the Talk page for Rees-Mogg. It is not clear if Rees-Mogg was ever in the Army. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.138.253.153 (talk) 14:26, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Wikinews interview
Tony Benn has agreed to do another interview with Wikinews, please see Tony Benn discusses politics with Wikinews. Discussion and suggestions on questions most welcome. Please note there is a link in the article's related news section to a late 2007 interview with Mr Benn. The audio on this is completely unedited and far more detailed than the article text. Not everything was transcribed from the phone interview. --Brian McNeil /talk 09:40, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Promoted to GA
I'm pleased to say that this morning I promoted this article to good article status. Well done to all those who contributed! AGK  11:24, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Ed Miliband
Just to clear up Benn's "support" for Ed Miliband. This all stems from an interview with Stephen Nolan on BBC Radio 5 Live where he said he would back John McDonnell for the leadership. Then, when pressed to give his opinion on the Miliband brothers, he said he preferred Ed, who had worked for him as a young man. This "endorsement" was then picked up by the New Statesman who ran a blog (now taken down) saying he was backing Ed Miliband. The rumour then wormed its way around the blogosphere, but in fact holds little truth. Terryitaloan (talk) 14:54, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
 * See this for link to quote - "If there was a choice between the two...." Terryitaloan (talk) 02:56, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Tony Benn RNVR
My late Father who was both MN and RNVR reckoned that he served both under the command of Tony Benn during the Battle of the Atlantic and while as Postmaster General and always spoke in complimentary terms about both these periods of serving under Mr Benn.

Does anybody else have any information about the RNVR period of Mr Benns career?AT Kunene (talk) 13:55, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Tony Benn did not serve in the Battle of the Atlantic in WWII. He was at Oxford University during part of the War, and after he graduated he served in the RAF. By the time he completed his training in Rhodesia- (remember this was well after the more desperate situation in the Battle of Britain- so people weren't just put into a spitfire with 5 hours flying experience), he got posted to the Mediterranean, (but not in operational theatre), and the war in Europe ended.

Known as
Was he ever known as "Wedgwood Benn"? I ask because – if memory serves – in an episode of The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin Reggie comments on his son's t-shirt which says WEDGWOOD BENN FOR POPE. —Tamfang (talk) 22:43, 24 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes - there was a joke on his 'shrinking name' - Anthony Wedgwood Benn, Wedgie Benn, Tony Benn (& possibly other variants). 94.195.193.37 (talk) 09:44, 4 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, he was. I think there ought to be a mention of this in the article and when and why he decided on this change. I think it must have been about 1980, as I was born in the 60s and I vaguely remember his being called this from my childhood. If the change happened around 1980 that means he was called "Wedgie" or more fully "Wedgwood Benn" for much of his life. John2o2o2o (talk) 01:05, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


 * On which note - the 'styles' section is not something I've seen for other politicians and is rather silly - it just appears to be a way to needle at a man who made a point of styling himself, rather plainly, and, in my view, sensibly, as Tony Benn. Listing them is pedantic and ideological and just as much a POV as other pro-Benn statements which editors have (rightly) taken exception to. I'm deleting. 2.30.79.17 (talk) 22:35, 5 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Well, that's your personal opinion. Please don't remove whole sections from an article without first achieving consensus to do so. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:46, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Worst ever
I thought I'd seen it all, but the massive and thoroughly useless HISTORY OF EVERY PERSON EVER IN THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT footer attached to this piece is clearly the worst ever. I'd normally BE BOLD and snuff it, but something this over-the-top is pretty clearly someone's idea of an essential benefit to the article. Mind blowingly terrible, particularly on the page of a British leftist. Carrite (talk) 20:41, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Overly gushing
May I just add that this article massively ignores the critcism that Benn faced in his years in office.

Reading this you get the impression that he was some kind of widely revered hero. On the contrary, he made vast numbers of mistakes, and was seen by much of the press as a dangerous socialist.

Can someone who has the ability please add these criticisms in. In particular his part in bailing out numerous unprofitable companies that later went bust deserve mention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.140.11.157 (talk) 14:29, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Succeeded by
'Disclaimed' - is the renunciation accepted for future generations - and, if so, could it theoretically be revived (as the College of Heralds occasionally accepts the reviving of dormant peerages)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.195.193.37 (talk) 09:42, 4 July 2011 (UTC)


 * It's only for life. When he dies his son will be Lord Stansgate, unless and until he disclaims in turn. —Tamfang (talk) 04:03, 27 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes this is correct as indeed we have seen at Mr Benn's decease when his son inherited the title and became the 3rd Viscount Stansgate. Indeed at the time of when he was trying to get rid of the title I think one of the arguments was that since it was possible for Commoner to be made a Life Peer, it should be possible to make a Peer a "Life Commoner". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.254.186.173 (talk) 00:54, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Plaques
I have removed the inscription on Tony Benn's 1995 House of Commons plague from this article. Not only is this given undue weight, a detail of Benn's activities which is only mentioned in passing by other people, but no reliable source exists online to confirm that it has been accurately rendered. Philip Cross (talk) 18:56, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Misleading statement
The statement "Benn has topped several polls as the most popular politician in Britain", in its prominent position, and with no countering view, gives a false impression. In fact, in the cited "fun poll" of "top living British political heroes", which nowhere mentions the word "popular", he only narrowly beat Margaret Thatcher. The fact that Thatcher is one of the most hated politicians in British history (though not by me personally) shows just how much credence should be given to that "most popular" interpretation. 86.128.4.151 (talk) 13:26, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Wedgwood family link?
Do we have information about any potential family link to Josiah Wedgwood, the pottery founder? It seems most of the Wedgwood entries are connected to him. Benn's paternal grandfather, Sir John Benn, 1st Baronet, possibly married a Wedgwood, but I haven't located any reliable source. Thoughts? jxm (talk) 01:45, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * See the Sparticus article about his father and this July 2011 Guardian article on the Benn dynasty. Yes, the Spatacus article says Benn's paternal grandmother was a "distant" relative of Josiah Wedgwood. This undefined and vague detail scarcely seems worth adding to the article which is already bogged down with a list of Benn's relations. Philip Cross (talk) 07:10, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that. I agree with your comment and so, as you may have noticed, I've added it to the father's entry instead - see William Wedgwood Benn. jxm (talk) 01:42, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

"... famous for his pipe, diaries and love of tea.."
(yes, ok, that was the Daily Mail).... But still suggest adding something like: "In 1992 Benn was named Pipe Smoker of the Year by the British Pipesmokers' Council." but unsure where. Note also, however "Nigel Farage said: 'Tony was also one of the few people I have ever known who totally ignored the ban on smoking in public places. He used to tell me that given that he was in his eighties he didn’t think anyone would make a fuss." Whilst, for real officionados:. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:11, 14 March 2014 (UTC)


 * .. or even (interviewed just last year, by the Express & Star: "He has smoked a pipe for 71 of the past 72 years since the age of 16, and started while he was in the Royal Air Force during the Second World War." Martinevans123 (talk) 22:42, 17 March 2014 (UTC)


 * ..."Like JRR Tolkien, whom he resembled, he loved to smoke a pipe; a particularly English vice." - Louise Mensch, quoted in The Telegraph. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:45, 18 March 2014 (UTC)


 * ..."I’ve always smoked a pipe – I was Pipe Smoker  of the Year in 1992 –  and I suppose it’s an enduring image of me as it was always in my mouth during all my anti-war campaigning. I do care for smoking though, and still enjoy my pipe. I’m trying to cut down, but not very successfully. Tea and tobacco are my two comforts in life."  Martinevans123 (talk) 22:42, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

MP for 50 years? Longest serving labour MP?
The article says he was an MP for 51 years, but according to the MP section he was an MP for the periods:

1950-1960 - 10 years 1963-1983 - 20 years 1984-2001 - 17 years

which is a total of 47 years.

John Parker was a labour MP for 48 years.

Apepper (talk) 12:23, 15 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Indeed. Benn was an an MP over a period of over 50 years (1950-2001), but with two breaks during that time (1960-63, 1983-84).  So, the wording needs to be changed to something like:  "...a Member of Parliament (MP) between 1950 and 2001 (with two short breaks)..."  Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:47, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Benn topped several polls as the most popular politician in the UK?
The reference for this statement is a BBC "fun poll" where people called in with their favourite politician from a list which Benn headed. That's not a particularly scientific poll; is there a better reference for the statement?

Apepper (talk) 18:07, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * That is what professional pollsters call a "voodoo poll", it's completely unscientific. This Ipsos Mori poll from June 1982 found that 56% of people said their opinion of Benn had gone down during the Falklands War (which Benn opposed). Perhaps this accounts for the loss of his seat in 1983.--Britannicus (talk) 19:03, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

So are there any polls which put Benn as the most popular politician in the UK? If it's just a made up claim, it should be removed. Apepper (talk) 19:46, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

I've bitten the bullet and removed the claim. Apepper (talk) 22:35, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Last resting place - question
The statement His body was expected to be buried alongside his wife at the family home near Steeple, Essex. needs checking. News reports state he was privately cremated after the funeral service in Westminster. Should this not read His ashes were expected.. etc?Cloptonson (talk) 21:38, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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I Hear, I See.
I seem to remember him presenting a TV programme called "I Hear,I See" where people described to an artist what someone looked like from their voice then compared the speaker to the picture the artist produced.31.120.220.110 (talk) 16:14, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's mentioned very briefly on page 61 of The Benn Diaries: 1940-1990, here. Seems to have been in October 1958. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:29, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

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Views on religion
There's quite a long paragraph in the "Early years" section about his views on religion and how his political thinking was influenced by Christianity. I'm wondering whether this has been given undue weight - although it may have some relevance it's hardly the first thing that springs to mind when thinking of Benn. Can we move it to a separate section further down the article? MFlet1 (talk) 12:58, 15 May 2017 (UTC)


 * People without an interest in Benn's background can skip the passage. Sticking close to a chronology in articles works best, and avoids the risk of editors duplicating content. Philip Cross (talk) 13:35, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Connection to Seretse Khama, 1st President of Botswana
If you've seen the movie "United Kingdom" you will know that MP Benn plays role in the story. It would be nice if someone with knowledge of this connection would include something about it in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.79.74.120 (talk) 21:08, 10 September 2017 (UTC)