Talk:Vedad Ibišević

Untitled
he is religion is ISLAM —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.78.231.227 (talk) 15:39, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Source?Spiderone (talk) 10:07, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * His religion is Islam
 * Source →interview with the New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/sports/soccer/29soccer.html?_r=1&em/
 * I added this information to the article before but it was removed several times
 * Zec (talk) 20:47, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing it was removed because it's irrelevant Spiderone (talk) 12:02, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Country of Birth
Ibišević was born in 1984 and at that time the country was SFR Yugoslavia. Hubschrauber729 (talk) 22:05, 5 December 2008 (UTC) Mi
 * I agree. What's the issue? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:07, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * SFRY (now, Bosnia and Herzegovina) agreed. Thank you.--Alem Hadzic (talk) 09:25, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * This discussion is for most part held at: Talk:Edin_Džeko —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stlunatic071 (talk • contribs) 21:18, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

bosnian?
Ibisevic and all other footballers are not only bosnians, more correctly they are bosnian-herzegovinan footballers and it's not bosnian best footballer of year it's bih (bosnian-herzegovinan), etc... so 1 sec in writing can correct a huge mistake and insult to other half of people in bih (herzegovinians);) please try to correct that mistake in all other articles cheers.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.94.134.221 (talk) 07:00, 15 April 2009


 * Ibisevic himself is from Vlasenica which is in Bosnia and hence he is a Bosnian football player.
 * So there is no way that it can insult Herzegovina or Herzegovinians.
 * However, within Bosnia and Herzegovina the term Bosnian-Herzegovinian is used but that just is not the case outside of BiH especially in the English speaking media.
 * Zec (talk) 01:38, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * You are right. BTW, before move to Swiss, he live in FBIH or RS? Matthew_hk   t  c  20:56, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * He lived in Tuzla, BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA (federation)--Stlunatic071 (talk) 06:37, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Let's imagine you have a time machine. You get in the time machine, and set it to take you back to 1984. When you arrive, you travel to the town of Vlasnica to witness the birth of little Vedad Ibisevic. You turn to a doctor standing next to you, and you say to him "Say, what country am I in?" The doctor looks at you a little strangely, but he replies "Yugoslavia". Because, in 1984, Vlasenica was a town in the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. Today, Vlasenica is in the independent nation of Bosnia and Herzegovina. But, in 1984, Bosnia and Herzegovina DID NOT EXIST as an independent nation. How is its possible that people don't understand this? --JonBroxton (talk) 07:13, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Vedad Ibisevic was born in Vlasenica, Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
 * Zec (talk) 20:47, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Indeed he was. Tell me, which one of the those was the INDEPENDENT NATION and which one of those was the SOCIALIST REPUBLIC *WITHIN* an independent nation? --JonBroxton (talk) 21:39, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * LOL!!! JonBroxton you've got to be kidding. First of all, I dobut you ever visited Yugoslavia, much less Bosnia and Herzegovina. I say that because your argument in which you tell us a "story" that's just a LITTLE convenient to your stand is absolutely false. Seriously, this is what we have to deal with?--Stlunatic071 (talk) 22:11, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Stlunatic071 - stop being silly. Dribblingscribe 22:13, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Excuse me!? Silly? Perhaps, you failed to read this, mind you, totally made up hypothetical "story" written by JonBroxton four comments up.--Stlunatic071 (talk) 22:40, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, then answer me a couple of questions. In 1984, was it the Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina or the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia that was part of the UN? In 1984, was it the Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina or the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia that was part of UEFA? In 1984, was it the Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina or the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia that was part of FIFA? In 1984, was it the Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina or the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia that competed at the Winter Olympic Games? If your answer to ANY of those questions is the Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, then I will concede that your argument is the correct one. --JonBroxton (talk) 22:16, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

The Beckham Example
The reason England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are listed as separate countries in the infobox is purely a footballing reason. Because FIFA consider them to be independent of each other, and because they have always had separate national teams, we show their countries of birth as the SPORTING country they represent (England, or whatever) not the geo-political nation they were actually born in (United Kingdom).

Ibisevic's country - Bosnia - does not fall under the same category, because had the breakup of Yugoslavia not taken place, he would have played for the Yugoslavian national team. Beckham could never have played for a UK national team, because there isn't one. So, really, Beckham is a bad example.

A better comparison is Andrei Shevchenko. When he was born, Ukraine was not an independent nation, and was still part of the USSR. If the Soviet Union had not broken up, he would have played internationally for the Soviet Union. However, because the Soviet Union DID break up, and because Ukraine became an independent nation, Shevchenko plays for Ukraine. He was BORN in the Soviet Union; he PLAYS for Ukraine, which came into existance after he was born. You can do this with all current Russia/Ukraine/Belarus/Lithuania/Latvia players. The same for all current Czech Republic/Slovakia players, who were all born in what was then Czechoslovakia and would have all played for the Czechoslovakia national team had that country not split in two.

Is this making sense? --JonBroxton (talk) 22:06, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Hold on, let's back up a little. I quote: "The reason England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are listed as separate countries in the infobox is purely a footballing reason. Because FIFA consider them to be independent of each other, and because they have always had separate national teams, we show their countries of birth as the SPORTING country they represent (England, or whatever) not the geo-political nation they were actually born in (United Kingdom).". This is precisely why at this point not only shouldn't we be arguing about whether it should say Yugoslavia or Bosnia and Herzegovina, but we should be coming to an agreement whether it should say SR Bosnia and Herzegovina or Bosnia and Herzegovina. This is ludicrous. First, you try quoting the rules of Wikipedia and once I pointed out the rule which fully supports the argument of SR Bosnia and Herzegovina you go to this and now you can't even understand your own quote.--Stlunatic071 (talk) 22:15, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Here let me make it easy for you, check: Talk:David_Beckham/Archive_3.--Stlunatic071 (talk) 22:21, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * You're not getting the point. You asked me why Beckham's infobox says England. It's because, although England is not an independent nation, when he was born his FIFA-recognized country of birth was England - not UK, because UK doesn't have a national football team. This rule also applies to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. However, when Ibisevic was born, his FIFA-recognized country of birth was Yugoslavia - not Bosnia, because in 1984 Bosnia didn't have a national football team, and was not recognized as an independent nation by ANYONE. This rule also applies to Croatia, Slovenia, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Russia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Czech Republic, Slovakia... need I go on? --JonBroxton (talk) 22:22, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Was it too much to click on David Beckham's talk page and read or should I make it even easier for you by quoting it here and wasting space and time because you can't understand your own source.--Stlunatic071 (talk) 22:32, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I read the link. I posted my response afterwards. Stop being obtuse. --JonBroxton (talk) 22:35, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Let's try this another way. Currently, the United States of America is a federal republic made up of 50 states; exactly the same as the former Yugoslavia was made up of several different republic. If you are born in California today, you are both Californian and American, but the COUNTRY you are born in is the USA; the USA is a member of the UN, FIFA and the IOC, but Kansas and Iowa and Alabama are not, because they are not independent, just as in 1984 Yugoslavia was a member of the UN, FIFA and the IOC, but Slovenia and Croatia and Serbia were not. HOWEVER; if the United States were to fall apart tomorrow, and all 50 states suddenly became independent nations, then a baby born in Los Angeles next week would be Californian, not American, because America would no longer exist. Do you understand this? --JonBroxton (talk) 22:40, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well then stop being hypothetical and resorting to further complicate the issue. And what response is that? I don't see one here, so far you've done nothing but kept pushing the issue further and further away from the solution.--Stlunatic071 (talk) 22:43, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The response where I said "You're not getting the point. You asked me why Beckham's infobox says England. It's because, although England is not an independent nation, when he was born his FIFA-recognized country of birth was England - not UK, because UK doesn't have a national football team. This rule also applies to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. However, when Ibisevic was born, his FIFA-recognized country of birth was Yugoslavia - not Bosnia, because in 1984 Bosnia didn't have a national football team, and was not recognized as an independent nation by ANYONE. This rule also applies to Croatia, Slovenia, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Russia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Czech Republic, Slovakia... need I go on?" How am I complicating the issue? If anything, I'm providing more and more examples of situations which exactly mirror the one relating to Ibisevic's country of birth, all of which indicate that the country of birth should be SFR Yugoslavia. --JonBroxton (talk) 22:47, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Height
You don't give up on this, huh? Your source is over one year old, I'm guessing that Hertha's official website has more accurate data, so it's gonna stay Hertha's version of his height. HankMoodyTZ ([]) 01:52, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
 * @HankMoodyTZ Well, I do insist on correct information being imparted on Wikipedia so yu right in some respects, I don't give up. Wikipedia ain't about your guessing pal and I'll give you a top tip, don't exhibit your terrible debating skills like that again. The Stuttgart website, which was valid until he left two months ago, had him as 189 cm and the World Football governing body has him as 189 cm as you can see. People don't start losing height in their 30s I can tell you that now. He hasn't lost a cm in two months either. David King 947 (talk) 23:42, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Mamu li ti jebem sraljo jedan mali, još jednom edituj, doću ti tu u Englesku i noge ti polomit, govno malo ružno. HankMoodyTZ ([]) 22:37, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
 * hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Ja ću zaboraviti da si to rekao. Ovo je engleska Wikipedia, govori samo engleski molim. To je učtivo. David King 947 (talk) 16:49, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Could you stop wrongly editing page of Vedad Ibišević, please?! Stop being an idiot! HankMoodyTZ ([]) 18:43, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Before you started your mad frantic editing in August, this particular edit stood and no one had any problem with it. Only you do! David King 947 (talk) 19:25, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

I'll talk in English, no problem mate. All your sources are over a year old, the most recent lists him as 188, on his club's official website. So I'll trust the information from people who measured him two months ago.

I've fully protected the page. Please settle your differences (see WP:DRR for options) or blocks will occur if edit warring starts up again. --Neil N  talk to me 02:57, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

I stand by to what I said, Hertha measured him most recently, and they say he is 188 tall, soccerway, that's also a reliable source on wikipedia lists him as 188. Only does David think it's unreliable and removes it. So there are more than one reliable sources, including his present club's webpage, that list him as 188, I think that's enoguh.


 * You must be unaware of the fact that your height changes throughout the day. If you don't believe me, measure yourself in the morning, afternoon and evening and you'll find that you lose height throughout the day. 3 cm is the average for everyone. I'll give you another fact; in one's old age, one loses height permanently. Putting these facts together, one can conclude that this player has not lost height and that there is a minimum 1 centimetre margin of error; ie EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE DEBATING OVER. Stuttgart, his club of two months ago, had him as 189 cm and FIFA, the WORLD governing body who ABSOLUTELY require accurate data to be submitted to them by the respective clubs, as you can see, had him as 189 cm. The margin of error has obviously come into play when Hertha medics measured him. He hasn't lost a centimetre in two months!!!


 * hahahahhahahahahhaha, mislite da moje ime je David King. U svakom slučaju, šta sraljo znači? David King 947 (talk) 19:50, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

So, it os becoming obvious that we won't agree on this matter, and that someone else should be involved or decide, I'm not sure how this works. If any of admins could interfere and settle this debate, it would be much appreciated, since I still think that Vedad is in fact 188, as the sources I've cited say. Things that David say are such a nonsense, for exaple the assumption that his height variation came into play when he was measured by Hertha's medical team. I could say that his height also varied when he was measured for FIFA, and then what? We are back to square one. It's better if the third party comes and settles this, someone not biased, and that we both accept the decision and stop changing it.

So, no one willing to resolve this? By the way David, your FIFA link does not work.

The FIFA link does work actually, but just leave it. You're right, the evidence suggests so. I apologize for my intransigence and the protracted edit war it caused. David King 947 (talk) 21:01, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

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