Talk:Videophone

Addition of images to the article
Pictures of videophones and less focus on fiction? Boyinabox

Be sure the images are not copyrighted.--Jondel 10:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Merge
Visiophone is another name for Videophone, rarely used in English (mostly it appears to be used in French; it appears to be the French equivalent). It should be merged into this page (not that there's a bunch to merge). jesup 02:53, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I would just replace Visiophone with a redirect to here, but though it best to let the active authors decide. Ramir 06:58, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree just redirect would be ok. Addhoc 11:29, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Video calling via cellphones
Added some info on cell phones with video calling. Frankly I'm surprised they were barely mentioned at all, considering how widespread their use is (30% of all mobile phones sold in europe are 3G and have video calling). Also added a picture I took of a video call in progress. Kalleboo 08:48, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Ekiga
I'm no expert, so I haven't added it myself, but why isn't ekiga listen here? --212.130.22.130 08:56, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

"Current Use" -- Any actual figures?
While it's true that almost all 3G phones feature a front facing camera for video telephony, it seems to me that hardly anyone is actually using the feature. Does anyone have usage figures on video calls as a fraction of total calls (in distinct calls, or as a per-minute breakdown)? --82.10.182.148 (talk) 19:49, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Videophone usage by the deaf
Videophones have been widely accepted by Deaf Americans (and probably by many Deaf individuals in many countries), and I believe the technology has allowed for the first equivalent to distant auditory communication for the Deaf. Earlier technologies depended on the written word, which is a form of English (or another written language), and was not equivalent to the visual language of the Deaf.

For that reason, I suggest that more emphasis be given to the VP and its use in the Deaf community, as it has had such a great impact there.

I use the term "Deaf" to describe the community of people who use visual language as the first language.

Pat Isaacs 2:37, 24 August, 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.53.203.160 (talk) 06:37, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Advertising
Wikipedia is no catalogue of services. It is acceptable to mention specific service providers if they are notable, but price lists and the like is a bit over the top, and might constitute advertising. In any case, such information is hardly notable in this context and therefore I have removed it. Falcon 05:22, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * good decision --212.130.22.130 08:56, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Agreed that explicit advertising is not acceptable. However on 2009-03-12 a user removed this text:
 * "In 2008 ACN introduced the IRIS 3000. It is the first inexpensive video phone for the masses ($99 for the unit, $29.99 per month for unlimited calls in the US and Canada). The phone is high resolution, real time and can be used to call any phone, whether it is video capable or not."

It would have been better to edit out any superlatives, i.e.: 'first inexpensive', and the pricing, since videophone models are not a commodity product. I propose that a new section be added to the page to be called 'Currently Available Models', to aggregate them in one location, thus leaving the rest of the article sections to concentrate on history, technology, etceteras..... If the new section becomes excessively long, it can be spit off onto a new 'See also' webpage. Wikipedians shouldn't restrict useful information solely because its connected to a commercial enterprise, otherwise you would have to remove thousands of other pages that describe specific TVs, cellphones, cameras models, etc... HarryZilber (talk) 19:32, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

New section needed: 'List of Videophone, Webcam, etc... Brands'

 * Note: the section was previously titled: 'List of currently available videophones' 

Previously discussed in 'Advertising' (above):
 * Wikipedia is no catalogue of services. It is acceptable to mention specific service providers if they are notable, but price lists and the like is a bit over the top, and might constitute advertising.  In any case, such information is hardly notable in this context and therefore I have removed it.  Falcon 05:22, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


 * good decision --212.130.22.130 08:56, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Agreed that explicit advertising is not acceptable. However on 2009-03-12 a user removed this text related to videophones offered by telephone services provider ACN:
 * "In 2008 ACN introduced the IRIS 3000. It is the first inexpensive video phone for the masses ($99 for the unit, $29.99 per month for unlimited calls in the US and Canada). The phone is high resolution, real time and can be used to call any phone, whether it is video capable or not."

It would have been better to edit out any superlatives, i.e.: 'first inexpensive', and the pricing, since videophone models are not commodity products in the sense that there are so few existing models. I propose that a new section be added to the page to be called 'Currently Available Models', to aggregate them in one location, thus leaving the rest of the article sections to concentrate on history, technology, etceteras.....  If the new section becomes excessively long, it can be spit off onto a new 'See also' webpage. Wikipedians shouldn't restrict useful information solely because its connected to a commercial enterprise, otherwise you would have to remove thousands of other pages that describe specific TVs, radios, cellphones, cameras models, etc... HarryZilber (talk) 19:32, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Hello, I think I'm the one who removed that passage which was clearly reading like an ad. But if it's possible to list the different models in a neutral way, I'm all for it.--McSly (talk) 23:10, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I do not believe listing commercial products on these pages is a good idea unless there is an extraordinary difference that is notable, in which case the product would probably have its own article. If one product is listed, then everyone would claim their product should also and WP becomes nothing more than a list of commercials.  If an article HAS to have a list of providers, then it's better to use one DMOZ link to that directory and let the editors there sort out what is notable and not. There is no way that ACN merits special recognition here.  Calltech (talk) 01:55, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

I've reviewed DMOZ and there are factors mitigating against it: 1) it appears to be Netscape owned (according to this Wikipedia article); that would appear questionable since it resides outside of Wikipedia purview; 2) its prob. not well known outside of core users, and would prob. engender less trust than Wikipedia even if it functions somewhat like Wikipedia.

Since videophones, and related technologies like webcams, are important devices in general and very important to specific groups such as the deaf and those requiring telerehabilitation, Wikipedia should provide useful, codified, information on manufacturers (i.e. 'brands'). To do that without cluttering the page, a new section with a 'Main Article' link can be created at the bottom of the Videophone page titled: "List of videophone, webcam, etc... brands". The 'See: Main Article' link would direct users to this new page where a simple listing of brand names can be provided, broken into groupings such as: 1) Stand-alone & Broadband Videophones, 2) Webcams, 3) Turnkey Teleconferencing Systems and 4) Videoconferenceing Software. The last item is needed because there are software apps that let people utilize their own higher quality video cameras with their PCs to videoconference; thus there's no discrete hardware per say. Examples of such List pages can be seen at List of digital camera brands and 'Category:Lists_of_brands'. --HarryZilber (talk) 17:30, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Gregorio Zara did not invent the first videophone
Contrary to a sentence in an early version of this article which read:
 * "In 1955, Gregorio Y. Zara, a Filipino engineer and a graduate from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, invented the first videophone, known as the "photo phone signal separator network."

...there's a large body of material showing that others developed and patented videophones prior to 1955. There are, however, numerous citations, online articles and other materials (including a photo of several people sitting by of a large TV videophone) supporting the PHOTO-PHONE SIGNAL SEPARATOR NETWORK. Zara is NOT on record related to a "PHOTO-PHONE SIGNAL SEPARATOR NETWORK" at the US Patent Office, so its likely that he filed his patent in Manila. This book:
 * INVENTIONS & Innovations
 * By Virgilio L. Malang
 * Published by Goodwill Trading Co., Inc.
 * ISBN 9718822011, 9789718822012

....is partially viewable online at Google Books, however the relevant page related to the 'Photo-Phone Signal Separator Network' is not. To add confusion to the issue, the forward in this book on Pg. 12 reads: "...the most well-known invention in electronics is credited to Filipino creativity and craftsmanship, but definitely there were previous achievements in this field. In 1962, the TV-TELEPHONE was designed by Gregorio Zara. For this invention, Zara won the first prize in a contest.... Then President Ramon Magsaysay was so impressed with this electronic novelty that enabled a caller to view onscreen the person on the other line and vice versa (sic)."

Until Zara's device can be reviewed and properly cited, the above sentence related to his 'Photo-Phone Signal Separator Network' has been pulled from the article. We need a copy of that page, or its equivalent, to understand what Zara developed and patented in 1955 (or 1962). Again, it was obviously not "the first videophone".     Comments? --HarryZilber (talk) 21:15, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

British General Post Office operated a public video telephone service??
In the Early history section of the article, someone previously made the statement:
 * "The British General Post Office also operated another public video telephone service prior to World War II."

Its been citation tagged for several months, and a check on Google and several television history books could find no mention of that videotelephony network. If it is not adequately cited in the near future then it will be removed from the article. Are any Brits able to assist here? --HarryZilber (talk) 18:47, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - As a follow-up to the above: two recent responses from the archives of British Telecom and the Royal Mail (see messages below) have failed to confirm the above noted sentence on public videophones in the UK prior to WWII; consequently the statement was removed from the article. It can be reinserted back into the article in the future if and when confirmation can be found in a reliable source. --HarryZilber (talk) 05:24, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Subject: RE: Did the B.P.O. operate videotelephone services prior to WWII? Unfortunately [we've] been unable to find any information with regards to the G.P.O.'s use of video telephony. That's not to say that [the British G.P.O.] didn't use it, just that I can't find any evidence that we did...... I understand that AT&T were considered leaders in this technology during the 1930's/40's and it may be worth seeing if they have any historical information regarding the history of videophones...... Many Thanks | Archivist | BT Heritage| BT Archives...... www.bt.com/archivesonline

Subject: FW: Did the B.P.O. operate videotelephone services prior to WWII? Hi there, [The Postal Museum thinks the subject matter] is probably [in the] BT Archives area given [British Telecom archives has] all GPO telecoms material – we have checked in Royal mail archive and don’t have any info..... Many thanks Head of Access & Development The British Postal Museum & Archive (BPMA) Freeling House, Phoenix Place, London, WC1X 0DL www.postalheritage.org.uk

--HarryZilber (talk) 05:24, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

- - - - - - - - - - - While researching TV history a few months ago, I came across a single sentence that alluded to a public videophone system in London, pre- during WW2. It discussed the several miles of 'dual coax cable' that were installed in London prior to during the war. It didn't directly mention videophone service, but as I understand the technology, you would use dual coax for videophone lines between videophone stations, with one 1MHz line used for receiving and the other line for transmitting -to me that appears as the most likely use for the coax that the book mentioned. Other than that single sentence the book offered no other information on pre- WWII videophone services in the UK.
 * To quote: "In the early 1940s, telecommunication services in the United Kingdom were predominantly for telephone speech and telegrams, with limited low-speed data and facsimile transmission. Telegrams were transmitted using teleprinters operating at 50 bits/s, corresponding to the speed of the average typist. Video transmission hardly existed except for a few miles on cable pairs in London. "  Source: "Advances in Imaging and Electron Physics, Volume 91", Peter W. Hawkes,	Academic Press, 1995, pg.191, ISBN 0120147335, 9780120147335.

Does this reference to coax cable in London jog anyones memory? HarryZilber (talk) 22:09, 1 November 2009 (UTC) HarryZilber (talk) 19:55, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Citations needed
Citations needed. This article needs citations. I understand that. But it's usually sufficient to just put the template at the top of the page  and leave it at that. --Arperry (talk) 18:35, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Photos of the AT&T Picturephone and the Visiophone needed
If anyone's able to provide licensed photos of those two early videophones please provide them. Licensed images of other early videophones or imagephones would also be appreciated. Please go ahead and drop them into this article if you have them, or add them to the Commons section on videophones if you prefer (advising with a small note here if you do so). If you need assistance with uploading, you can leave a message here or contact me on my webpage. Thanks if you can help.... HarryZilber (talk) 18:25, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Deleted materials
IP User:213.168.121.173 made several deletions to this article on 29 December, 2009. The removed materials are being parked here for reconsideration, sourcing or editorial improvement changes prior to reinsertion. Two other edits by this person have been reverted due to the relevance of the materials: 1) the Nortel photo near the top of the article, which was an example of a contemporary IP or ISDN type videophone, and 2) the section on Videophones in popular culture, which reflects cultural perceptions of videotelephony, and not trivia.

Comments? HarryZilber (talk) 19:00, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Modern trends in videophone calling
 * (reason for removal:  not wikinews)


 * In 2004 Telmex, the biggest telephone service provider in Mexico, introduced videophone service over regular phone lines (apparently H.324). The service, as of March 2006, had not enjoyed widespread adoption. Telecom Italia supplies LG-Nortel videophones, which also appear to be used by Telmex.


 * Also as of late 2008, special high value vertically integrated market segments were undergoing changes as data speeds and hardware technology improved to catch up to the requirements and demands of videocalling. Health care, education, construction, government, and other enterprise level applications continued to drive the growth of video conferencing.


 * Video cellphone technology and usage
 * (reason for removal: unsourced)


 * The most frequent usage of cell phone videocalling over HSDPA 3.5G networks in Europe as of 2008 appears to be aimed at locale transmission, i.e. live video of where one is as opposed to self-image. The preferred method of cell phone videocalling is to use the smaller camera on the front of the phone rather than the larger megapixel camera on the back. In this way the sender can maintain an overview of the live video transmission on the screen as it is being sent.


 * Video compression
 * (reason for removal: no source for there exept of Skype which is not the same as Videophone/compression)


 * The most commonly used video codecs are H.263 and H.264. Skype uses the proprietary protocol VP7. VZOchat uses proprietary Visicron codec.
 * The most commonly used video codecs are H.263 and H.264. Skype uses the proprietary protocol VP7. VZOchat uses proprietary Visicron codec.

More info on the Bondwell videophone needed


This new image of the Bondwell iiPhone was moved from the article to this Talk page today. A quick Google search showed almost no information on it, and inserting its image without even a year of creation does a disservice to the article. A check of its source at the EPFL school museum in Switzerland didn't turn up any info that I could locate. If anyone can provide further info on it here, we can decide how to structure it into the article. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 20:07, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles had video phones
In popular culture media. Did you know that video phones were in the 1987 TV show and 2003 TV show of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? Also in the 1991 CGI TV show Reboot, video phones were often used in Mainframe city. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CrosswalkX (talk • contribs) 23:48, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Revert improper cut-and-paste move to Videotelephony
An editor previously made an improper cut and paste move of this article to the related article on videotelephony, which only partially concerns this topic. This was wrong on several accounts, for one: since cut and paste moves break the chain of attribution, such moves are copyright violations and thus prohibited by Wikipedia's MOS. If an editor feels that two articles should be combined, that person should start a discussion on both article talk pages as per Merging, in order to gain consensus for the merger. However I feel the two articles should remain separate since Videophone has a rich and lengthy history largely distinct from modern videoconferencing. Videotelephony covers the wide gamut of technologies from webcams to high definition telepresence. Combining all these technologies together would be like merging the article on the Ford Model T with the article on Automobile; by cramming everything into one page you loose the distinctions between the two topics and do a disservice to both of them. HarryZilber (talk) 17:14, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Deaf people at World's Fair?
I was looking through the article that is used as a citation for "at the 1964 New York World's Fair –two deaf users were able to communicate freely with each other between the fair and another city" (44). I can't find any mention of deaf people in the article, but the videophone booths are indeed mentioned. Are there mentions of deaf people there elsewhere? 134.231.64.141 (talk) 14:26, 7 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I recall seeing the original text in another source, but the source doesn't seem to be listed in the article now. When I Googled the key words "deaf Picturephone at New York World's Fair", the following sources came up:


 * Deaf Life - Volume 11, Issues 1-6 - Page 302 http://books.google.ca/books?id=wu0mAQAAMAAJ 1998 - Snippet view - More editions O "At the 1964 World's Fair in New York, he was asked to participate in a demonstration of the picturephone as one of four deaf people. He was nervous about the attention, but when he saw how he was able to communicate in sign with friends ..."
 * Bell Telephone Magazine - Volumes 48-50 - Page 13 http://books.google.ca/books?id=6EyGAAAAIAAJ 1969 - Snippet view - More editions O "is not like distributing a new item to a few hundred supermarkets to test its sales appeal. ... of steps dating back to the initial public demonstration of Picturephone service at the New York World's Fair in 1964. ... a group of deaf people in New York were able to "talk" with deaf individuals in both Washington and Chicago.
 * There are probably more available. HarryZilber (talk) 05:07, 8 May 2013 (UTC)