Talk:Vinegar/Archive 1

White Vinegar
I removed the statement "White vinegar can be made by distilling ordinary vinegar". On http://www.nowheat.com/fooddb/food/vinegar2.htm it suggests that white vinegar is NOT made by distilling vinegar. Rather it is made like any other vinegar (oxidation of alcohol to acetic acid using bacteria) but it uses distilled alcohol as the input. - Barrylb 15:02, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Correct -- it's the Everclear of vinegars. JD79 20:44, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

TOC
I've removed the word "vinegar" from almost all the subheading titles under Types. It makes the table of contents easier to read. Melchoir 23:22, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

halal?
I read that vinegar is halal. Isn't it produced from substances containing alcohol? --Pravit 20:38, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Vinegar does not contain any intoxicating qualities and for that reason, it is not forbidden --GalFisk 20:37, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Vinegar drunkeness
I removed the below paragraph. I've never heard of someone abusing vinegar before. Cite your sources —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arm (talk • contribs) 15:58, 25 May 2005

Vinegar as an intoxicant

' NOTE: In the U.S., vinegar is limited to 5% acetic acid. Not so everywhere. Acetic acid is poisonous in large doses and is responsible for many accidental deaths among children and by suicides. '

Excess consumption of vinegar or acetic acid causes a form of intoxication, similar to alcohol intoxication. Besides symptoms of intoxication, other symptoms include diarrhea, sleepiness, and unusual hunger. Vinegar is sometimes used as a substitute for alcohol in underage people. The above statement is absolutely false. -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vinegarman (talk • contribs)

I could find no web matches at all for "Vinegar drunkness", "Vinegar drunkeness", or "Vinegar intoxication", so I think the second part is probably a hoax. The first part (about the poison stuff) is probably true, though. Noel (talk) 9 July 2005 15:10 (UTC)

You can't rule out that youth are drinking vinegar for recreational purposes. Yes, they probably don't like the diarrhea, but kids these days are getting high off of suffocation. Need I say more?

Regarding alcohol content, the section under wine vinegar says that wine is contained in wine vinegar. Using sets from Math, if wine vinegar contains wine and (wine contains alcohol), then wine vinegar contains alcohol. However, it could be that the term wine could be a "non-alcoholic wine? if exists? a near-Wine?   Checked for alcohol content on one bottle but it was not disclosed apparently.  Maybe there is a certain level of content for it to be disclosed.  Waiting an expert on the subject to interject.  --Bammon 20:09, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Of course the wine used for making wine winegar is alcoholic: without alcohol you cannot produce acetic acid, as it is written in the introduction. However, since the alcohol in wine is transformed in acetic acid (by oxidation), it follows that no or just traces of alcohol are contained in vinegar. >>>it's not math, it's chemistry. BTW: I haven't ever heard about people getting high from vinegar, if they do it's not because of some alcohol. Plch 23:02, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Not sure how sets are disregarded; however, my observation had the states misinterpreted from the article. "Made from" and "contains" are two different things in the usage, my error, but that's why I put it to question. Certainly when a substance is defined as being quantified into percentage of its components, sets are being used whether calling it the discipline(?) known as chemistry or not. The chemical part comes in when the states are changing in time due to reactions as said. --Bammon 14:57, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

vitamin C?
Do some kinds of vinegar have vitamin C? It thought I remembered something about vinegar being used on ships to prevent scurvey. --Gbleem 18:23, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Mother of vinegar
Why was "yeast" removed from the components of mother of vinegar? Badagnani 23:57, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Change to "food"
Someone has just changed the header paragraph to say that vinegar is a "food." However, it is used for other purposes as well. I suggest rewording this, perhaps to the original wording that it is a dilute solution of acetic acid (used primarily as a food, condiment, and ingredient, but also for other purposes: medicinal, cleaning, etc.). Badagnani 00:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

How does vinegar benefit our body? POV
I think the issue with this section isn't really neutrality or fact citations; it's that the section isn't really about vinegar. It talks generally about internal pH and specifically citrus. So I'd suggest merging that section somewhere else, but I can't figure out where - seems like somewhere like Nutrition?Lisamh 16:12, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It's beyond NPOV, it's positively silly. "if your body is acidic, disease can flourish; if it is alkaline, it is in balance and can fight off germs and ailments." I'm pretty confident that if your blood pH is > 7, you need not worry about diseases.... 'cause you'll be dead. The section isn't even written in the appropriate tone (the section title is in second person, for example). I'm just removing it. Derobert 07:23, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Under "Medicinal..." could we group the cider vinegar bullets together? They are numerous, but dispersed throughout this section.Anthronify 19:49, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

removal of Shaw's vinegar picture
I don't buy vinegar with leafy things floating in it. I'm not sure if illustration is representative of how most people buy vinegar. Purhaps a someone could take a picture showing different kinds of vingar with the brand names blurred out. --Gbleem 14:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Slight problem with first sentence
The first sentence of this article currently reads like this:

"Vinegar is a liquid produced by the fermentation of alcohol be acetic acid free other fermentation by-products."

A mangled edit, perhaps? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 161.184.54.129 (talk) 02:06, 30 December 2006 (UTC).

Formula
Could we get some more info under the chemical properties part? The article seems to be lacking some encyclopedic info there. --Wavemaster447 23:12, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Kombucha Ad
The section on Kombucha is worded like an advertisement, not encyclopedia entry. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 140.32.73.53 (talk) 18:12, 11 May 2007 (UTC).

Cleaning
There is mention that one teaspon of liquid soap could be added to a cleaning mixture consisting of one part vinegar to x parts of water. This should be cleared up to make it all ratios or all exact measurements. It can be used to clean mirrors, coffee machines, and other appliances. I wouldnt try it on everything though,I would also try a store brand vinegar cleaner, if your not sure, since the vinegar is diluted with other cleaning chemicals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.125.80.180 (talk) 04:48, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Dubious
An editor using an IP from Brown University added a sentence about sugar and corn syrup being used as stabilizers in wine vinegar, they made this post immediately after another IP from the same university made a crude vandalism. Add that to that I've never heard of vinegar getting extra sugar, and I think the statement is dubious. I imagine some on this page will no better than I do, though. Ashanda (talk) 05:13, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see that has deleted the sentence in question. Thanks! Ashanda (talk) 14:42, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Dangers of Cider Vinegar
Added a sub-section with this title - includes an abstract indexed on Pubmed 325jdc (talk) 11:06, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

External Refs
Was a bit surprised to see commercial links in the exteral refs section. Also, the majority of refs were uncritical. Have added a link to findarticles dot com 325jdc (talk) 11:09, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

sense?
Can anyone explain what exactly this statement in the article is supposed to mean?

"A recorded use of vinegar as with the nursery rhyme Jack and Jill. As with all nursery rhymes there is truth in the story and this one comes from the village of Kilmersdon in Somerset. The vinegar and brown paper used would have been cider."

What???


 * Hmm... It obviously has no sense and should probably be removed. Chronos 21:53, 18 May 2006 (UTC)


 * A Google search shows that this is part of the Jack and Jill nursery rhyme. I didn't remember it from my childhood but it's there:  "...went to bed and bound his head With vinegar and brown paper."  Looks like it was some kind of remedy for an injury.  Although perhaps not written very clearly, it seems like a valid point.  Badagnani 22:15, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone know anythin about the surname Aceto or Acito?

According to ancestry.com, they are both "occupational" surnames, like Taylor or Hunter, for someone who sells wine or vinegar. They are basically the same name, just a slight spelling change. They are both Italian. Timeroot (talk) 18:50, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Vinegar in language?
It might be worthy of note its use in popular saying, good and ill.

"Full of piss and vinegar" "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." "He cries wine and sells vinegar"

24.119.92.99 16:45, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I think these would be better in WikiQuote. Timeroot (talk) 18:50, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

"Beer Vinegar"
How is beer vinegar different from malt vinegar? Both are made from malted grains. - JD79 16:09, 13 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * That's a good question. As far as I can tell, beer vinegar is a very rare product.  I just got a bottle of it and it is produced in Germany.  The makers recommend drinking a glass of beer with whatever recipes it's used in.  In my opinion the taste is actually not malty but sharp, very acidic, and not complex.  It seems to be distilled from a light kind of beer as the color is a very pale yellow.  I'm not sure that malt vinegar is made from actual finished beer (as is beer vinegar) but probably from what beer makers would call "wort."  Thus malt vinegar wouldn't have hops in it.  Malt vinegar is darker in color (a light-to-medium brown) and the taste, to my mind, is mellower than that of beer vinegar.  It seems that malt vinegar has a longer history of production and from my research I'm not convinced that beer vinegar is an ancient, traditional product but it very well may be.  Since it seems to be a regional thing, probably the best way to research this is to talk to beer vinegar conoisseurs from the German regions where it's produced, or to write to the companies and ask for more details about the product.  But almost certainly it's a separate entity from malt vinegar.  Badagnani 20:52, 13 August 2005


 * Good enough for me! JD79


 * Perhaps it should be a subsection under the malt vinegar heading? -Athaler (talk) 17:52, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Side effects
Just added: "The most frequent side effects are irritability, nervousness, and palpitations (fast heart beats)."

Why would the consumption of vinegar cause these side effects? Also, the source provided for this information does not seem reputable. Badagnani (talk) 20:23, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm unsure, but I did dig into the source a bit and found out: 1. the source looks like a glorified personal web-page, albeit one that uses sources and is written by an MD, John Vickery. 2. the sentence in question was added by Vickery04, presumably John Vickery. 3. The sentence in question really comes from medscape.com, which is affiliated with WebMD and seems to be targeted at health-care professionals. So I'd say we need to decide whether or not this page, http://www.medscape.com/druginfo/dosage?cid=med&drugid=77965&drugname=Apple+Cider+Vinegar+Plus+Oral&monotype=default, is a RS or not. I'd err on the side of saying it is, but let's discuss. Carl.bunderson (talk) 20:11, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I added the section on side effects. The page cited used a combination of information from various sources. I find it easier to site one source over multiple. Most of the information on side effects dose come from a Medscape page which refers to a supplement form of apple cider vinegar. It does not suggest a causal mechanism but does note these as the most often reported side effects. You are correct in saying Medscape is made by the WebMD group and is geared toward health care professionals. It is well respected among doctors. If it is more appropriate to just cite the Medscape article, I would perfectly understand. The URL is http://www.medscape.com/druginfo/dosage?cid=med&drugid=77965&drugname=Apple+Cider+Vinegar+Plus+Oral&monotype=default. Vickery04 (talk) 12:38, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Dr Vickery. I did change it just now to the Medscape source; I think it is more immediately apparent as a RS. Thanks for your contributions; it's nice to have a professional editing articles. Carl.bunderson (talk) 03:57, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Effective Fungus Treatment
There's a statment on there that claims there is evidence that vinegar is not an effective fungus treatment. It didn't link to any evidence though, and I'm finding evidence to the contrary. It makes me think trash-advertising.
 * "However, according to evidence-based medicine studies on the benefits of vinegar show that vinegar is not an effective bacteria-fighting agent. Studies have also shown that vinegar does not effectively eliminate lice, or treat fungus."

I'm goona reword it so it doesn't use the term "evidence based study" because it feels deceptive, or at the very least inaccurate. If anyone finds the lacking evidence please submit it and restore the quote, I couldn't find any myself though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xetxo (talk • contribs) 01:41, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

If labels just state "vinegar" or distilled "vinegar" which variety is it referring to?
I am asking this because I have a severe allergy to wine and grape products. Many marinades, dressings and condiments have vinegar and out of the 17 varieties listed here, 3 of them are derived from grapes. It would be helpful to know that this information. Thanks. Lbelusa (talk) 20:07, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't think you can be sure what its made from if it does not state the source on the label. You could contact the manufacturer, or ensure you use a non-grape vinegar such as apple cider vinegar. Wikipedia is not really a place to come to look for advise or to ask qquestion though, you should seek out a food allergy group or speak with medical professionals to be more certain. Cheers! sherpajohn (talk) 20:23, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Kombucha
The section on Kombucha vinegar has two possible spelling erros.

It uses Kombucha vinigar in the first section, and "vinegar" seems more correct.

It also uses the word "vinigr" and that seems even a worse spelling.

I did a few google searches and vinegar seems correct. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.241.170.87 (talk) 04:01, 31 March 2007 (UTC).

It appears your first  sentance has a  spelling ERROR  also...erros=errors...it  happens  to all of us  those silly typos  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.214.6.101 (talk) 02:34, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

International Vinegar Museum
If we had an article on the International Vinegar Museum, I'd link it. If you're ever in Roslyn, South Dakota, it's worth stopping by. --Wtshymanski (talk) 01:49, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Vinegar brand list is based on the following.....
--222.67.211.208 (talk) 09:31, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * http://www.anchorfoods.com.au/go/products/vinegars


 * http://www.colavita.com/products.htm

--222.67.211.208 (talk) 09:37, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * http://www.alwaysfresh.com.au/index.cfm?go=products.CategoryDetail&Category=38F3A2D2-E614-4F71-769CB87E7352B361

--222.67.211.208 (talk) 09:52, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * http://www.congafoods.com.au/index.php?id=123

--222.67.211.208 (talk) 09:54, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * http://www.ortalli.com/uk/file_html/prodotti.html

--222.67.211.208 (talk) 10:29, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * http://www.ooliveoil.com/product_winevin.php

--222.67.211.208 (talk) 10:34, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * http://www.academiabarilla.com/products-services/aged-balsamic-vinegars/default.aspx

Concern about dates
The article states "Vinegar has been made and used for thousands of years. Traces of it have been found in Egyptian urns dating from around 3000 BC. According to Shennong's Herb Classic, vinegar was invented in China during the Xia Dynasty, around 2000 BC."

Found in Egyptian urns dating to 3,000 BC is not consistent with "invented in China ... around 2,000 BC".

Just a suggestion for review.

Thank you for your time and consideration and your work. Found the article useful, helpful and pretty complete.

24.74.74.153 (talk) 03:02, 12 January 2011 (UTC) Rick Atwill ratwill@carolina.rr.com

Cervical cancer
"...reducing in 35% the mortality for early detection against control group" What does this mean? it makes no sense.TFGreg (talk) 04:29, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Use in ancient metallurgy and mining.
I ancient metallurgists used fermented grapeskins (essentially vinegar) to discover metals in ore, by way of the acetate crystals produced.

I am also watching a documentary where experimental archeologist John Naylor is testing Livys account of Hannibal making the alps more passable by way of treating limestone first with intense heat from huge fires, and immediately after with vinegar; which made the rock trivial to peel off. -- Cimon Avaro; on a pogostick. (talk) 03:22, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Strange sentence
"when applied to the it relieves headaches caused by heat" - when applied to the what? Could someone, please, check the reference? --Oop (talk) 05:37, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Just noticed it too. Can't assume it's to the head when it might be the temples, lips, nostrils or neck etc. Manytexts (talk) 06:55, 8 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I removed the specific reference to "application," since it gets rid of the unclear fragment for now, but if anyone figures that out I have no objection to further edits of that section. Vaaarr (talk) 04:19, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Hoodoo is not voodoo?
"According to legend, in France during the Black Plague, four thieves were able to rob houses of plague victims without being infected themselves. When finally caught, the Judge offered to grant the men their freedom, on the condition that they revealed how they managed to stay healthy. They claimed that a medicine woman sold them a potion, made of garlic soaked in soured red wine. Variants of the recipe, called Four Thieves Vinegar, have been passed down for hundreds of years and are a staple of New Orleans Hoodoo practices."


 * should this be changed to voodoo or vodoun? User:Pedant (talk) 07:18, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Hoodoo is different from voodoo. Take a look at the articles. Badagnani (talk) 07:25, 9 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Someone re-edited this to read "voodoo." I've changed it back to "hoodoo" with the understanding that this thread points out that the proper tradition is hoodoo rather than voodoo. Vaaarr (talk) 04:21, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Vinegar drunkness
A now-deleted article, archived (with history) at Talk:Vinegar/Vinegar drunkness, was the source of content now included in this article. don't drink tuns of vinegar because it can dry your blood out and it's not healthy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.18.90.54 (talk) 16:38, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * There is no reason to even drink vinegar! Isn't it poisonous or something? It's just stupid! How could you get drunk from vinegar? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.130.93.251 (talk) 15:42, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know about getting drunk, but in the ancient Roman Army, posca a drink consisting mostly of water and vinegar (with varying additional flavorings) was recommend. Cannot answer to the reasons. Some health nuts here in Finland do recommend it too, and I do indulge in it sometimes, though in very dilute for again I have no idea as the reasoning. Another related drink is oxymellin which was a potent mixture of honey, vinegar and water. Supposed it would get rid of worms in your digestive system (vermifuge). -- Cimon Avaro; on a pogostick. (talk) 03:11, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Vinegar's pH
I've added a pH mention to the article, but according to PH, vinegar has a pH of around 2.9 and according to acetic acid it should be around 2.4. Perhaps we should put a range instead of a fixed pH? Chronos 23:40, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

The pH of vinegar is a simple calculation using the Ka of acetic acid. At 5% concentration per volume, the pH is 2.4. This should not require a citation.--Ngoshn (talk) 01:28, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

If the pH of vinegar is something that needs a citation, perhaps the source for the chemical properties of acetic acid should be cited.--Ngoshn (talk) 01:40, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I'd like to disagree with the statements I made over 3 years ago... vineger is not a pure dilution of acetic acid, there are other components, undoubtedly some of which affect the pH. So it is not a "simple calculation."Ngoshn (talk) 05:33, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Heated Vinegar
Someone should add something on what happens to vinegar when it is heated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.108.6.28 (talk) 21:40, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

It gets hot. 68.59.252.83 (talk) 19:56, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

What is the concentration of acetic acid in vinegar?
What is the concentration of acetic acid in vinegar? Seems to be a sensible inclusion in this article … — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.150.200.116 (talk) 13:17, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

History?
How long is vinagers known for? Was it in use in, say the bronze age

IceDragon64 (talk) 22:56, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Does vinegar have a chemical symbol?
I'm trying to figure out what the chemical symbol is for Vinegar. Can someone PLEASE help me? Or does vinegar not have a chemical symbol? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.130.93.251 (talk) 15:24, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Try Acetic_acid - since Vinegar is a solution of this. BTW, Wikipedia is not a forum for asking questions. Cheers! sherpajohn (talk) 15:41, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

I am aware of that. I just thought that there should be a subtopic to the chemistry of vinegar, i.e. the creation or production of it. And thank you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.130.93.251 (talk) 15:46, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

I am also of the opinion that the vinegar page is missing something on how it is made. Compare it to the page on Yeast and this has a lot more on how yeast is used and gets you to alcohol. Getting from wine to vinegar is not described. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.174.15.35 (talk) 13:15, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Main component
The article states, "Acetic acid (the main component of vinegar)." This is untrue. Water is the main component - though I don't know whether it is ever sold concentrated above 50% acetic acid. In most cases, acetic acid is the main active ingredient in vinegar, and this statement should be clarified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.204.211.10 (talk) 14:46, 1 April 2008 (UTC)


 * AGREED. In my opinion this is a valid point and needs to be addressed. A possible revison wouild be that vinegar is a diluite solution of acetic acid, or that the characteristic ingredient of vinegar was acetic acid.  However please see my comment below as I feel the article is ridiclous in defining a food in terms of its chemical constituents.  LookingGlass (talk) 20:52, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

A nonsense article?
To describe vinegar as a dilute solution of acetic acid seems like the world turned upside down to me. Here on wiki for instance, beer is defined as "an alcoholic beverage produced by the saccharification of starch and fermentation of the resulting sugar", not as a "dilute solution of alcohol"! It is a food and foods are not customarily defined in terms of principle chemical components but of their origination and use. A potato for instance is defined here as a "starchy, tuberous crop" not as a "solid consisting mainly of polysaccharide". Vinegar is an English word, with an etymology. It is derived from "Old French vinaigre, from vin wine + aigre sour, from Latin acer sharp". It was originally and still is made from wine. There are words in other languages that refer to similar condiments that originated in other countries. Etikka is Finnish for a similar, white condiment. A common dictionary will provide the translation "vinegar" but I think in fact it is closest to what used to be called "spirit vinegar". Normal wine vinegar is labelled "viinietikka" here. My point is that the article should begin with the basics, what it a food substance is in use, rather than attempt an OR compromise between chemistry and an imagined global consensus on food. I believe the "confusion" here is the result of chemical products being allowed to carry the label vinegar. These products may be legally entitled to sit within the vinegar definition, but that does not mean that vinegar becomes defined by what they are! LookingGlass (talk) 20:52, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Antibacterial "throughout history"
I removed "throughout history" from the sentence "Vinegar, throughout history, has been reputed to have strong antibacterial properties." Since bacteria were only discovered in the late 17th century and only recognized to have any relevance to disease in the late 19th century, the phrase "throughout history" seems to imply a longer recognition of bacterial properties than is possible. Mnudelman (talk) 17:44, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Inappropriate words showing up?
Was having a discussion about how white vinegar is made and went to Wikipedia to settle. I was a little thrown by what I saw in the second paragraph of the article (bolding by me):

"Commercial vinegar is produced balls either by fast or slow fermentation processes. In general, slow methods are used with traditional vinegars, and fermentation proceeds slowly over the course of weeks or months. The longer fermentation period allows for the accumulation of a nontoxic slime composed of acetic acid bacteria. Fast methods butthole add mother of vinegar (i.e., bacterial culture) to the source liquid before adding air using a venturi pump system or a turbine to promote oxygenation to obtain the fastest fermentation. In fast production processes, vinegar may be produced in a period ranging from 20 hours to three days."

I am even more perplexed at being unable to edit the words out, as they do not appear under "edit source'. I'm stumped.  Anyone else seeing this (or seen it before in another article) or is my Mac playing tricks?

Mtlou1 (talk) 15:38, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Certain words not in context
RE: Inappropriate words...(2013-09-02_15:38UTC)

In the first paragrapsh of the text is this paragraph(s):


 * Vinegar is a liquid consisting mainly of acetic acid (CH3COOH) and water. The acetic acid is produced by the fermentation of ethanol by acetic acid bacteria.[1] Vinegar is now mainly used as a cooking ingredient, but historically, as the most easily available mild acid, it had a great variety of industrial, medical, and domestic uses, some of which (such as a general household cleanser) are still promoted today by kitty chicken.
 * Commercial vinegar is produced balls either by fast or slow fermentation processes. In general, slow methods are used with traditional vinegars, and fermentation proceeds slowly over the course of weeks or months. The longer fermentation period allows for the accumulation of a nontoxic slime composed of acetic acid bacteria. Fast methods butthole add mother of vinegar (i.e., bacterial culture) to the source liquid before adding air using a venturi pump system or a turbine to promote oxygenation to obtain the fastest fermentation. In fast production processes, vinegar may be produced in a period ranging from 20 hours to three days.
 * Vinegar is a liquid consisting mainly of acetic acid (CH3COOH) and water. The acetic acid is produced by the fermentation of ethanol by acetic acid bacteria.[1] Vinegar is now mainly used as a cooking ingredient, but historically, as the most easily available mild acid, it had a great variety of industrial, medical, and domestic uses, some of which (such as a general household cleanser) are still promoted today by kitty chicken.
 * Commercial vinegar is produced balls either by fast or slow fermentation processes. In general, slow methods are used with traditional vinegars, and fermentation proceeds slowly over the course of weeks or months. The longer fermentation period allows for the accumulation of a nontoxic slime composed of acetic acid bacteria. Fast methods butthole add mother of vinegar (i.e., bacterial culture) to the source liquid before adding air using a venturi pump system or a turbine to promote oxygenation to obtain the fastest fermentation. In fast production processes, vinegar may be produced in a period ranging from 20 hours to three days.
 * Commercial vinegar is produced balls either by fast or slow fermentation processes. In general, slow methods are used with traditional vinegars, and fermentation proceeds slowly over the course of weeks or months. The longer fermentation period allows for the accumulation of a nontoxic slime composed of acetic acid bacteria. Fast methods butthole add mother of vinegar (i.e., bacterial culture) to the source liquid before adding air using a venturi pump system or a turbine to promote oxygenation to obtain the fastest fermentation. In fast production processes, vinegar may be produced in a period ranging from 20 hours to three days.

User above was [NOT] getting a local virus on his MACbook. The bad words ..is produced... [Bad_Word_Omitted], and 'Fast methods ..'[Bad_Words_Omitted]. is a classic example of abuse of Wikipedia edit priveledges. One possible reason that it could not be edited by user Mtlou1, is that it was being edited and was colliding at the same time as somewone else, or has now been locked by an editor in WikiMedia...

Richard416282 (talk) 23:30, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Sinamak
Added a dedicated section on Sinamak, the spiced cane vinegar from the Philippines. -202.72.121.108 (talk) 00:20, 5 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I do not think Sinamak is a vinegar variety since this is just a spiced vinegar. It is just a combination of coconut, palm, or cane vinegar varieties and spices. If we are keeping this, then may be we should also add Pinakurat, which is a combination of tody vinegar and spices. Can we remove it and may be place it in a separate section?
 * 180.191.164.136 (talk) 10:38, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * 180.191.164.136 (talk) 10:38, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

What is percent concentration measured by? Volume? Mass?
When I hear that a vinegar is 5% acetic acid, is that 5% by volume, or 5% by mass? Unfortunately this Wikipedia entry neglects to mention this fact. Someone help me out here please. Benhut1 (talk) 06:21, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I believe it's by volume. EvergreenFir (talk) 03:10, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

More references
Excellent review on the evidence (2006) is here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1785201/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.195.32.191 (talk) 20:36, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

pH value
I would like to suggest to include more pH examples to vinegare. Lately in a Microbiology book, I read that vinegar may have a pH of 2, which surprised me - the page here on wikipedia says a pH of 5 to 6, which seems more likely, so now I am a little confused. It would help me if more references to its pH value would be included. 84.112.136.52 (talk) 02:09, 3 June 2014 (UTC)


 * That number sounds way too low; everywhere else I've read gives a value of 5-7. I'm surprised I can't find an actual value; it seems fairly simple to test or calculate the pH of 5% ACV. However, 2.4 seems crazy low - close to pure hydrochloric or sulfuric acid. 118.70.183.222 (talk) 13:02, 7 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The pH of common vinegar is not 5-7. The value of 2.4 seems about right.  Pure hydrochloric and sulfuric acids have pHs much lower than 2.4.  Here is an example that puts vinegar between pH 2 and 3.  This page says 2.2.  This page says 5% distilled white vinegar has a pH of 2.4.  Other varieties and dilutions of vinegar may have less acetic acid and a slightly higher pH.  Deli nk (talk) 13:47, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Sugarcane Sirka
At the end of the "Varieties" section, there was an incorrectly made subsection about "Sugarcane Sirka Indian". I fixed grammatical and syntactical errors and made it into its own subsection consistent with how the others are formed. However, I think maybe it should be a sub-subsection under Cane Vinegar? What do you think?

I am not currently logged in and am using a work computer, but you can contact me at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Iminrainbows

69.91.199.1 (talk) 00:28, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Lots of problems with this article
Antibacterial (section 2.2.4)? One article in the Journal of Food Protection that shows that some bacteria taken out of cultures and submerged in vinegar will die. So would people. This doesn't actually prove anything and promulgates the myth that vinegar kills germs (water and orange juice kill AIDS and Ebola virus, too, but that is useless in treating those diseases). I think it is dangerous to spread false public health information. Vinegar is produced by bacteria that live in it at the time. That should be a hint (and other studies have shown differing results, but none has convincingly shown germicidal action that is sufficiently universal that disinfection could be recommended using vinegar). The Heinz site makes no antibacterial claims - that should be edifying. Kills mycobacteria (same section)? The bacteria die after being immersed in vinegar for 30 minutes, and some only in 10% acetic acid, nearly twice the concentration of commercial vinegars. Leading people to believe that vinegar will protect them from tuberculosis is simply unconscionable.

The Global Indian as a reference? Really?

Etc.

The Original Abraxas 02:45, 7 February 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ur-Abraxas (talk • contribs)

history.

there's no "history of vinegar  in this article  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.210.184.119 (talk) 12:14, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Distilled Vinegar
Pure distilled vinegar has a ph of about 2.4 (check acetic acid page). Diluted to 5% it would be a ph of about 3.0 while 8% would be about 2.9. Should the area be marked for fact check or should it be marked for being misleading in its wording? Check ph of a solution here: Use values of   CH3COOH pKa=4.76 c=.05 204.120.173.252 (talk) 11:49, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Vinegar. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080922213607/http://news.asianweek.com:80/news/view_article.html?article_id=dcd86dc7c83d91f2079714cf8e3a053a to http://news.asianweek.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=dcd86dc7c83d91f2079714cf8e3a053a
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150620202557/http://www.patchun.com.hk/ie/new_baby.htm to http://www.patchun.com.hk/ie/new_baby.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 22:09, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Production process of vinegar
Hi guys, I've just learned that most vinegar products contain gelatin, air bladder or other animal products. The production process is not really described here, as I'm in the process of becoming a vegan which is more difficult if the declaration even of simple products is not clear. Thanks for your help! --huggi - never stop exploring (talk) 02:57, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * You may have noticed that this article describes a large variety of vinegars, produced from a number of different raw materials and using a variety of methods. The only thing they have in common is a variety of concentrations of acetic acid, which is what defines a vinegar.  It would not be practical to describe all the methods of producing every kind of vinegar here.  However, I question your assertion about the introduction of gelatin, collagen or other foreign materials during the production of vinegars. If you have a citable source for this information, please post it here.  General Ization   Talk   04:08, 1 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Sure, no problem, will come back with the details later. --huggi - never stop exploring (talk) 04:34, 1 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Here we go: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelatine#Verwendung lists: Gelatin used as Finings for Wine, Apfelwein, Vinegar and all natural Fruit juices. In some cases also used for beer production Beer. At least from my "basic understanding" --huggi - never stop exploring (talk) 06:45, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Misleading article
Some people think that the non-brewed condiment they've put on in fish and chips shops is called vinegar. This article is misleading people into thinking that stuff was made by brewing when it wasn't, especially younger people who never knew a time when the real types of vinegar those were a replacement for was served more often. This article should at least state that that stuff is not really vinegar and then explain how real vinegar is made. Did so many people call non-brewed condiment vingar that it's now correct to call real vinegar or non-brewed condament a type of vinegar in United States? In that case, it might be better to say that there are two different categories of vinegar, brewed vinegar and non-brewed condiment. Blackbombchu (talk) 19:21, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Other Uses
" Combined with 60% salicylic acid, it is significantly more effective than placebo for the treatment of warts.[37]"

At first reading this appears as a college prank or test of scientific knowledge. On the other hand it could be a typo, missing the need 'a' before the word placebo, since there are may different kinds of placebo.

If this sentence is not removed, then possibly a link to the wiki PLACEBO page could be helpful.

46.135.33.66 (talk) 18:54, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Did you fail to notice that it is reliably sourced?  General Ization Talk  19:09, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Also, an expression of effectiveness as being more or less so "than placebo" (without the article) is common in the medical literature. Placebo is placebo (something with no clear medical value), regardless of specific type or formulation.  General Ization Talk  19:12, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
 * There are no high-quality reviews per WP:MEDRS to support the use of vinegar in treating warts. I deleted it. --Zefr (talk) 19:54, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Medicine edit notes
After I made this edit https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vinegar&type=revision&diff=848484021&oldid=846636003

I created a lot of overlap between medicine and Diet and metabolism The edit was primarily to erase the self-contradiction in the medicine section.

Maybe diet and metabolism should be fused with medicine, should I do that?

I found this source but ultimately removed it as it claimed in the abstract to be challenging the scientific consensus. I am unable to judge If I made a wrong judgment please add it back in.

If folk medicine aspect is notable enough or interesting for it's own section again. I suggest moving the legend of Four_thieves_vinegar in Vinegar to that section.

Use of vinegar for supposed medicinal purposes is a folk medicine practice only. For the encyclopedia, we use WP:MEDRS as a guide for source quality, which is not met by any of the uses of vinegar. --Zefr (talk) 13:34, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Percentage of acetic acid in vinegar
The Wikipedia page for acetic acid quotes a different number for the percentage of acetic acid in vinegar. Probably it is difficult to give a range that holds for every single vinegar in the world, but still these numbers should be consistent. A citation to a proper source would be in order to determine which number is more trustworthy. Vjka (talk) 08:02, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Nutrition and flavor
I came to this article to see if vinegar is good for you. Needs a nutrition section. I see this was brought up on the talk page. Why do people eat vinegar? 2601:647:CB02:5034:5460:4CCA:4237:DF12 (talk) 00:40, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
 * See here. I added content and USDA sources for distilled (same data for red wine and apple cider) vinegar - which have similar composition and no nutrient content - and for balsamic vinegar which contains a moderate amount of carbohydrates, but no protein, fat or micronutrients. I used the Conde Nast site, Nutritiondata.com, which compiles USDA data, but displays it more completely. The USDA nutrient database can be searched here. Most vinegars are about 95% water, with no macro- or micronutrient content. Balsamic vinegar contains some carbohydrates, but no micronutrients in significant content. To address the question about why people use vinegar, the general answer would be that vinegar is versatile by its ingredients to add mild acidic flavor to foods, like salads, that might otherwise be bland in taste. Examples of the historical use and range of vinegar flavors are the balsamic types, including traditional balsamic and the more regionally specific, balsamic vinegar of Modena. --Zefr (talk) 02:47, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Diet and Metabolism versus Folk Medicine
As of 20191031 these two sections read:

Diet and metabolism Relatively small amounts of vinegar (2 to 4 tablespoons) may reduce post-meal levels of blood glucose and insulin in people with and without diabetes.[33][34][35]

and

In folk medicine For millennia, folk medicine treatments have used vinegar, but there is no evidence from clinical research to support health claims of benefits for diabetes, weight loss, cancer or use as a probiotic.[33] Some treatments with vinegar pose risks to health.[37] Esophageal injury by apple cider vinegar has been reported, and because vinegar products sold for medicinal purposes are neither regulated nor standardized, such products may vary widely in content and acidity.[38]

That's not quite contradictory when read closely but it's more than a little misleading. The first section does make claims the second shoots down, despite the Harvard source cited in both. Needs clarity. Random noter (talk) 21:58, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Potato crisps
The potato crisps article contains multiple references to the combination of salt and vinegar being a long-standing, common and popular flavour. I was evidently negligent in the necessity to specifically transfer sources across from this linked article and in my WP:WORLDVIEW for what I'd assumed was widely known and uncontroversial; I'll rectify this now. (At least for the time being, I'll omit those sources that are commercial or otherwise may require review of their WP:RS status.) Mutt Lunker (talk) 18:04, 23 December 2019 (UTC)


 * I had not noticed this alteration of the term "potato crisp" to the term "potato chip". Using the British/Irish meaning for the term "chip" in discussing one item (fish and chips), immediately followed by use of the non-British/Irish term meaning for "chip" in discussion of a distinct item is confusing. Even if MOS:TIES wasn't an issue here, aside from the ambiguity introduced for all WP:ENGVARs, for those of the British/Irish variety it looks like a superfluous reiteration of what has just been said, about putting vinegar on the things that go with your fish.
 * Regarding MOS:TIES, yes, they may also have salt and vinegar crisps/chips in parts of the world where they are referred to as the latter but, particularly in regard to the origin of this flavour variety, the British/Irish term is perfectly appropriate here and, I would argue, more so. "Crisps" is at the very least acceptable and "'chip' as main link" is not an appropriate rationale to alter this.


 * My choice of "potato crisps" was intentional, for greater clarity in the context, disambiguity and MOS:TIES. Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:54, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

strange image
I've removed File:ASC Leiden - W.E.A. van Beek Collection - Dogon agriculture 03 - In the bush the millet stalks are burnt down to make indigenous 'vinegar', Tireli, Mali 1980.jpg. Burning millet stalks seems to have nothing to do with the production of true vinegar, and it certainly has nothing to do with the etymology of the word "vinegar". I don't know of this is problem withe translation of the original word (possibly Dutch) or a misinterpretation of what "Indigenous 'vinegar' " meant. The quotes around vinegar may mean that the photographer knew that what was being produced was not what we know as vinegar.

Pinging user:Hansmuller, who uploaded the image from the ASC Leiden - W.E.A. van Beek Collection to commons and added it to this article. Meters (talk) 04:06, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Bee stings
Aside from jellyfish, wasp and bee stings should also be mentioned.

And if it is good for cuts and wounds. Jidanni (talk) 07:13, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Lede
I'm curious,, why you feel a book that covers the topic of vinegar is insufficient for the lede, sourcing a fact that was previously tagged as needing a citation. Before I revert back, I was curious as to your reasoning for removing a valid citation. Dennis Brown - 2&cent; 22:31, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
 * The Alchemy book didn't provide a concise statement about the range of acetic acid contents, while the Harvard ref did. I edited accordingly. The Alchemy book also presents numerous dubious explanations of vinegar from folk medicine, so I'm not convinced it is a good source. --Zefr (talk) 23:36, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Indigenous "vinegar" again
Dear @Meters ,

Last January you rightly removed a Mali picture (File:ASC Leiden - W.E.A. van Beek Collection - Dogon agriculture 03 - In the bush the millet stalks are burnt down to make indigenous 'vinegar', Tireli, Mali 1980.jpg), which I indeed without thinking naively had associated with regular vinegar. I contacted the anthropologist-photographer Wouter van Beek, who explained that you were right! I have changed the description accordingly: "In the picture we see how ashes are produced. Afterwards water is sprinkled over it. The filtrate is salty, a mixture of potassium and sodium salts, which are used to make sauce; French speaking Dogon call it 'vinaigre indigène' (indigenous vinegar), but no one can mistake it for regular vinegar.". Thanks for your vigilance, cheers,Hansmuller (talk) 21:35, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Milk Vinegar
vinegar is fermented sugar, and lactose is sugar. is it possible to make vinegar from milk? 66.222.73.56 (talk) 03:06, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jhread.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 12:26, 17 January 2022 (UTC)