Talk:Xenoblade Chronicles 2

Trouble with categories
Hi, I just want to add Pyra to the category Fictional characters with multiple personalities, but whenever I try to it just links Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and doesn't actually say Pyra or take it to her section on the page. Please help, I have no idea how to use this wiki lol. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TruthfulEditors (talk • contribs) 00:08, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
 * If she doesn’t have her own article, she doesn’t really belong there anyways, so I wouldn’t worry about it. A word of advice, since I’ve seen you really going to town on plot/character stuff - you may want to read WP:VG/PLOT. Wikipedia’s guidelines say that you need to keep plot/character stuff brief and to the point. Wanted to make sure you knew before you spent the time quadrupling it’s current length or something. Sergecross73   msg me  01:38, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your reply, I actually looked into this and found out I should make a redirect page if they are to be included in that category (which I will do soon). And that's good you let me know about that, I'll try to keep it straight to the point, thank you! TruthfulEditors (talk) 01:16, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Art style
Editors keep making this edit. I'm indifferent to whether or not we use the exact term of "chibi" or not, but I'm against the removal of the entire sentence/source. Reliable sources have noted that the game moves away from the realistic proportions of the prior 2 games. I believe that's worth noting to some capacity, however we want to word it. Sergecross73  msg me  18:07, 21 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I agree there should be something noting the change in art style, but I don't think that source is the best for this when it incorrectly uses a term to describe the change. You mention other "reliable sources [that] have noted that the game moves away from the realistic proportions of the prior 2 games", so could one of those be used instead? --Bean the Dynamite Duck (talk) 18:15, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
 * In the Japanese art/otaku world, chibi just basically means oversized heads/smaller bodies/non-realistic proportions, like Chibi (term) says. It's not really a black and white, objectively right or wrong type concept where its necessarily one or the other, so I'm not sure I agree saying things like they're "incorrect" here, especially when they call it "chibi-like" in their exact wording in the article. Multiplayer.it also calls it "almost chibi" too, so maybe something more to that effect is better? Sergecross73   msg me  18:47, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
 * The thing is, it's still most often used and associated with a very specific type of art style in English-speaking parts of the world, as its article says. It's still most often used to refer to things short in stature, and most of the cast really doesn't look that short; in addition, I don't think the proportions are anymore unrealistic than many other games and anime, some that even have separate "chibi versions." I think Sidequesting.com's article on the game would be a better source, as it says how "its art direction implies more of an anime influence, resulting in characters and proportions that are stylized", and I think that's pretty simple without using any terms that could be a bit complex in meaning. --Bean the Dynamite Duck (talk) 19:05, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
 * But we're talking about a Japanese/anime related topic, so one would think that reader would then assume its Japanese-related definition. And we're not comparing it to the rest of the world of anime, both the NintendoLife source and content in the Wikipedia article explicitly say more chibi-like than prior Xenoblade titles, which had more realistic proportions. I'm unfamiliar with "Side-questing" as a website, so I have no idea what sort of authority they would be on such a thing, or if they'd be considered an WP:RS, but their quote provides less information to the reader. It's a worse comparison point, considering every Xeno title is "anime influenced" and something as vague as "stylized could mean anything from Jet Set Radio characters to Splatoon characters.  Sergecross73   msg me  19:30, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
 * And which Japanese-related definition are we assuming readers to know about? Wikipedia's article on it also says "it means someone, some animal or something that is smaller in stature compared to the majority" when discussing its use in anime and manga, which still doesn't fit, and neither does your claim of "oversized heads/smaller bodies/non-realistic proportions" when most of the characters have none of the first two and I'm not seeing many body proportions that are much more non-realistic than other anime/games nor even the previous Xeno games (outside of the eyes and maybe some other facial details, I guess?). Even the Japanese Wikipedia page treats "chibi" and super deformed as the same thing, if we're going to argue about Japan's use of the word. From what I've seen, SideQuesting is about as reliable as NintendoLife or Multiplayer.it. I also don't see it as providing any less information than the other sources, as "chibi" is also not a very good comparison point with how most examples of it, such as those linked to in its very article and its main article image, aren't very much like what's found in this game. "Anime" and "stylized" may be more vague and provide less information, but "chibi" could be seen as providing misinformation due to the writers of those articles possibly not being too familiar with what it actually means. Is Hardcore Gamer's description of the game's art style as and cuter" better? "Cuter" doesn't have specific connotations unlike "chibi", and I believe Hardcore Gamer is also recognized as a reliable source, having its own article. --Bean the Dynamite Duck (talk) 20:32, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Hardcore Gamer is classified as a RS too, per consensus at WP:VG/S (as is NintendoLife), but "cuter" is moving into even less descriptive territory. A number of other editors also maintain this article. Let's see if they have any input on the matter, as we appear to be in a stalemate. Sergecross73   msg me  20:45, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Chiming in, but I don't really have a problem with calling it "chibi". But if you want to avoid the term altogether, I'd just say the game has "different art direction that separates it from the previous two Xenoblade games" or something along those lines. ~ Dissident93  ( talk ) 06:43, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I think chibi implies that the character dimensions are more deformed than before and there's nothing to show that is the case here. The design of Rex seems to have thrown people off, but the E3 trailer showed us many more characters who aren't more chibified than those in the previous games. It's not really a matter of what source is even being used, but rather judgement of a game that was, and still is, in the process of being revealed.--Jram555 (talk) 13:31, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Right, but if "chibi" means "deformed", and they're saying "chibi-like compared to prior two Xenoblades", which equates to "somewhat deformed in comparison to the other characters", then is that so wrong? Sergecross73   msg me  14:33, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * It could be in this context if Rex is simply short and the characters are actually being modeled in the same dimensions as before. In this context it implies there's more deformity, when it doesn't look like there will be. It's a misrepresentation of the rest of the characters in the game.--Jram555 (talk) 08:28, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
 * That would go both ways though - is there any particular reason to think Rex is the only character with these proportions? I haven't seen anything to suggest that... Sergecross73   msg me  14:58, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
 * There was also a 40 minute demonstration of the game at E3 where they went through the first town of the game that provides more evidence of humanoids being the same as the previous games. I'm going to maintain that the first trailer simply threw people off, as there is more evidence pointing to the shaded art style shift not having an effect on character proportions. However I cannot deny that the game is still in the process of being revealed.--Jram555 (talk) 19:58, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
 * The average English speaking reader is unfamiliar with the term "chibi", and the Wikipedia article for the term is a poorly written stub, which gives two definitions for chibi, only one of which refers to art style, and which cannot reasonably be applied to this game's art style after careful consideration of promotional artwork and footage. This is an unimportant detail and the source using the term is of exceptionally low quality (A hastily written article from Nintendo Life totaling eight sentences, serving as a comment thread starter). The sentence should be removed, it's unnecessary, potentially confusing, and not particularly encyclopedic. The artists should be named and supplemental images can be provided to give the reader an idea of the art style. 68.197.59.144 (talk) 08:47, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * A little surprised/disappointed to see not much progress made on this three months after it was brought up. An interview translated by Nintendo Everything has Tetsuya Takahashi describe the art style as "a means to make the protagonists more expressive." If there must be a note made on the change in art style, I believe replacing the claim of the art being "chibi" with mention of this would be much more informative, coming from the game's executive director himself. --Bean the Dynamite Duck (talk) 07:19, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Cover art
I'm not sure why this edit was made as it's not cover art, it's just promotional art. Yes it shares similarities to the art used in the cover, but it's not the same artwork. If you have some reasoning, please share. --Hedja (talk) 18:51, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, while I can't find any WP:VG/S approved websites covering this (I think only small blogs/fansites are the only type to report on minutia like box art reveals), Nintendo has revealed the the boxart, and its the version with just 2 characters on it, not the version with 6 characters on it. This website points it out directly. Unless there's a new development, please stop changing this. Sergecross73   msg me  19:16, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Even if it was legit, shouldn't the WP:STOPCHANGINGIT guideline prevent us from changing it simply due to personal preference? The page either needs a short term protection or an IP block range on the user, who continues to change it back despite being told to stop. ~ Dissident93  ( talk ) 19:03, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, STOPCHANGINGIT would still apply, though with that, you're supposed to keep it at the original image used, and I'm not sure which one was there first. That said, the WP:BURDEN is still on the IPs to prove their image is boxart at all - I haven't seen anything to indicate it is, and if it isn't, then it fundamentally doesn't belong there at all. I've protected the page for a short period so that hopefully the IP address will be forced into discussing. I've tried to leave messages on their talk page, but they tend to switch IPs before reading it. (Or they just don't care.) Looks like they've at least found their way to the talk page (see section below) but even there, they're aren't actually discussing... Sergecross73   msg me  16:50, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 August 2017

 * image     = Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Boxart.jpg
 * caption   = North American cover art


 * ❌ - The reason why the article is locked is because you/anonymous IP addresses keep on changing the image without explanation. As far as I can tell, the current image on the page is the correct one. Can you provide proof that this other one is boxart? Sergecross73   msg me  14:04, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Big edit/sourcing
This edit contains some interesting content, but also, contains a number of unreliable/unusable sources (Nintendo Everythong, Operation Rainfall, some others). Currently on mobile, so I can really work through it now, but writing this as a reminder to work through later, or to look at it later if someone does a wholesale revert too. Sergecross73  msg me  17:36, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I did some copyediting as the user also introduced some redundant info. The Operation Rainfall source was posting a NeoGAF-translated message from Takahashi, which originally came from the game's official Japanese website. Not sure how we can handle this, as NeoGAF is unreliable, and us citing a full-on Japanese message without an English translation isn't helpful either, so I just removed the whole section until this can be figured out (and it doesn't need a section anyway). ~ Dissident93  ( talk ) 19:55, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * If we can verify the content directly from the JP website, that'd be fine. But unreliable sources that originates from a message board post doesn't work for a number of reasons, as you likely know. Sergecross73   msg me  17:25, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Here is the image (directly from the JP website) of Takahashi's message.--MomoQca (talk) 02:46, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Nintendo's JP website is usable in itself, but we need someone who knows Japanese that can verify what it says it true, or at least do a machine translation to verify the rough message at least. (Which personally, I am unable do with just an image of text, rather than actual text that can be copy/pasted.)
 * Alternatively, in like 24 hours from writing this, there will be a Xenoblade 2 Nintendo Direct presentation, so we can just wait until then too, where they may very well mention it there, in which there'd likely be no shortage of sources verifying it at that point. Sergecross73   msg me  15:10, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Checking the post date on NeoGAF, and it appears this message dates back to at least June, if not earlier, so it's sort of unlikely they would mention this now, although who knows. ~ Dissident93  ( talk ) 18:31, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Yup, and indeed, they didn't. It does seem like generally good information if we could source it right though - I'd never heard of Galaxy Express 999, but looking over its article, it seems interesting to have that as an influence. Sergecross73   msg me  15:27, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Source

 * Good one for future use - 3 page hands-on preview interspersed with interview quotes - http://www.gameinformer.com/games/xenoblade_chronicles_2/b/switch/archive/2017/11/07/xenoblade-chronicles-2-hands-on-feature.aspx?PostPageIndex=1 Sergecross73   msg me  02:43, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Side note, but I hate multi-page articles, it makes citing them messy. ~ Dissident93  ( talk ) 17:57, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Various sources for software sales
I have found a couples "sources" disclosing sales numbers for Spain and France. If none of the below sources are acceptable, please let me know. Better yet, if you happen to find a better/more reliable source providing these numbers, please add them to the article.


 * -Spain: 15,094 copies as of Week 49 - from Hobby Consolas
 * -France: 30k regular edition + 12k special edition - I'm unsure if it's sold-through copies or not. I don't know French, so if someone could interpret the piece for me, I would greatly appreciate it! :)

--MomoQca (talk) 16:11, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Plot
I'm currently taking a break from actively maintaining this article, because I'm currently playing the game and don't want to stumble upon spoilers, but FYI, within the last 24 hours, the game's plot has ballooned out to a ridiculous degree, (18,000 bytes, effectively making it 1/3 of the entire article) way outside of the guidelines like WP:PLOTSUM and WP:INU. It's way too long. I can take care of it someday, but that could be weeks out, so if anyone wants to do it in the meantime, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, I'll take care of it eventually. Sergecross73  msg me  15:05, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm unfamiliar with the plot, so I can't really be of help outside of general grammar/brevity type edits. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 19:59, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * From reading the first paragraph or two, the content doesn't appear to be erroneous, just written with excessive detail, so at least "brevity edits" that don't change the meaning of the content already there would still be a likely improvement at least. Sergecross73   msg me  20:17, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Right, it's just that I wouldn't be able to tell what is necessary or not without knowing the in-game context. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 05:53, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * In the past, when I've been in your situation, I at least trimmed out some of the stuff that was obviously excessive. For example, changing something like:
 * Rex and Pyra started their trek through the field. They stopped just outside of the town. Pyra was nervous, but Rex reassured her. He gave a smile. They proceeded cautiously.
 * to:
 * Rex and Pyra cautiously traveled to the next town.
 * But by all means, you can just leave it if you don't want to deal with it. I'll take care of it someday. Or maybe someone else will come along too. I was just seeing if anyone wanted to deal with it in the interim - this game is massively long, so it's not like I'm wrapping it up next week and fixing it next week or anything. I just hate having an article I created and maintained look like garbage for months... Sergecross73   msg me  13:47, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Agreed, I had this problem with Persona 5 when I finally got around to playing it last month. The article had many misleading, outdated, and missing info that I quickly fixed. I'm unlikely to ever play the game (the constant repeating chatter, over the top tropes, and excessively long combat don't do it for me), but I'll take a quick skim through the plot section and leave anything I'm unsure about up to you or somebody else. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 21:58, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've done the approach I described above for games like Sonic and Zelda, where I hadn't played the games to know the story, but didn't really care about spoiling the story, so I just read what editors wrote, and I was generally able to trim it down substantially, and usually the hardcore fans came around and made minor adjustments to any errors I created. In my experience, they're not so much erroneous as much as they're way overly detailed and written in the wrong tone/type of wording. But the general scope of the plot is usually okay once you remove the obvious "And then the smiled, and he gave a wink, and then she smiled again" pointless details, or the OR sounding "and some fans believe that in the end the character did this or that, but is not confirmed" type stuff too. Sergecross73   msg me  22:08, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Torna ~ The Golden Country
Good evening, everyone!

"Xenoblade Chronicles 2: Torna ~ The Golden Country" appears to be a substantial expansion pass and will feature a standalone story, different gameplay elements, and new music. While the expansion pass can be bought digitally alongside the main game, it can also be bought separately in a physical format. Would this expansion pass be substantial enough to be considered for a separate article? I'd like to hear the thoughts of the Wikipedia community before taking action.--MomoQca (talk) 01:44, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've read some similar sentiments from websites - it seems to be a pretty substantial separate release. I'm not opposed to creating a separate article conceptually - there is precedent for it in situations like Witcher 3 has The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt – Blood and Wine - but I'd wait until there was something substantial to write about it first, or otherwise you'll likely just see it be redirected into this article. Sergecross73   msg me  14:10, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I might revisit this topic in a few months when it comes out. --MomoQca (talk) 03:04, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

GA push
Hi all, I recently finished this game, really enjoyed it. I see it's not been through a GAN, would anyone mind if I fixed up the article and nominate it when it's ready? It's got a good base, just needs some additional work. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:27, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I say go for it. I created it and maintain it with Dissident, but no one has done any serious work on the article for a while now, so there’s shouldn’t be anyone standing in your way. I’ll be around for help some too (though I played/beat it back at launch so some memories are hazy.) Sergecross73   msg me  21:36, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Also another note - the character section was just very recently created by a brand new user and will probably require some trimming. None of it’s wrong, but it’s probably not high-level enough. Sergecross73   msg me  21:40, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * It was the first thing I saw that I thought needed a bit of a cull. Thanks. I'll post here when/if I'm happy for a nom. :). Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:43, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, just wanted to make sure you knew it wasn't something I wrote or was trying to keep in the article or anything. Anyways, sounds good. Sergecross73   msg me  00:45, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I've done some general cleanup of this one. The Reception section needs rewriting to not just be a series of quotes, and the gameplay section needs an expansion similar to that in Xenoblade Chronicles. Anything else that's blatently obvious that I'm missing? Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:14, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I skimmed it over and it’s looking pretty good. No glaring issues, for sure - if the reviewer has issues I would think it would be deep dive type stuff. Sergecross73   msg me  21:06, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Dissociative Identity Disorder
It has already been acknowledged in this edit that the game contains examples of (or at least a close analogy to) Dissociative Identity Disorder, featuring it as a major narrative element. My edit sought to reflect the experiences of the characters as separate people, as the game depicts (for example, in the ending where they become fully separate people), in order to be more respectful of the condition and those like myself who live with it and conditions like it. The narrative goes to great lengths to illustrate their differences and their simultaneous coexistence (seeing both together in the sequence where Rex unlocks their combined power in the form of Pneuma; Mythra hearing Pyra talk to her while in the Indoline Praetorium); contrary to the article's previous (and after the reversion, current) insistence that one is simply an alter ego of the other.

I didn't feel it necessary to extend the plot into a full analysis of these moments as there seems to have already been a problem with the ballooning plot summary, but I did feel it important to not mislead a reader who had not played the game about the nature of the characters Pyra and Mythra and the real-world experiences they serve as an allegory for. In doing so I believe I also corrected some factual errors (such as the article claiming both Mythra and Pneuma to be Pyra's true form).

I was instructed to contest/discuss the edit here, and so that's my intent. I believe it was a necessary edit as it corrected factual errors about the game (where the article made inaccurate claims about the true nature of Pyra and Mythra) and potentially harmful misrepresentation of the real world condition they represent. PseudonymousNX (talk) 03:46, 16 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Hi there. As a new editor, you'll want to familiar yourself with WP:PLOTSUM. It outlines how plot summaries are supposed to be written. Your changes don't gel with that in a few ways.
 * Plot summaries are just supposed to be an overview of main plot points.
 * Theyre supposed to be concise and be around 700 words.
 * They really shouldn't feature analysis.
 * Anything beyond basic occurrences and events need a reliable source to verify information. "Pyra walked into the house" does not need a source, but "Pyra walked into the house in the same way that Fei walked into Citan's in Xenogears would need a source, because it takes outside knowledge beyond just watching it to understand.
 * In short, I don't wish to discourage you from editing Wikipedia...but they were right to be removed. It is possible to add content about themes and messages intended by the creators, but that would belong in the Development section, and again, you would need reliable sources that verify it. It's can't just be your own personal observations.  Sergecross73   msg me   Sergecross73   msg me  04:09, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
 * In short, I don't wish to discourage you from editing Wikipedia...but they were right to be removed. It is possible to add content about themes and messages intended by the creators, but that would belong in the Development section, and again, you would need reliable sources that verify it. It's can't just be your own personal observations.  Sergecross73   msg me   Sergecross73   msg me  04:09, 16 February 2024 (UTC)