Template:Did you know nominations/Sinclair C5


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 20:06, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Sinclair C5

 * ... that Sinclair C5 electric vehicles (pictured), once reviled as a notorious failure, have been modified with jet engines and run at 150 mph (240 km/h)?
 * Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Robert Jefferson Bingham
 * Comment: I'll be nominating this as a featured article candidate in due course, so this'll be its first airing.

5x expanded by Prioryman (talk). Self nominated at 11:51, 19 September 2014 (UTC).


 * Symbol voting keep.svg New enough (promoted to Good Article status on 27 September 2014), long enough (47,905 characters). Most of hook verified against online sources - 150 mph claim AGF on offline hook. Good image, appropriately licensed. QPQ done. Good to go. Hawkeye7 (talk) 19:52, 15 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Symbol possible vote.svg This hook was modified in prep by The Rambling Man, who added the word "some" after "that", but this just highlighted a basic problem with the hook: the sourcing only gives a single instance of a C5 modified with a jet engine and it doesn't say how fast it ran; the 150 mph C5 was an all-electric vehicle, though the hook gives the impression that it was the jet version that went this fast. I've found an online reprint of the 150mph source, which also mentions that this was the world electric land speed record (at the time, and recently broken according to some online sources; this record may be in a particular category, like vehicles under 1100 pounds, if subsequent new records by BYU students are any indication); if that's verified and put in the article, it might make a good replacement hook. Here's a possible wording:
 * ALT1: ... that although the Sinclair C5 electric vehicle (pictured) was once reviled as a notorious failure, one was modified to run at 150 mph (240 km/h) and set a world land speed record for electrics? —BlueMoonset (talk) 15:40, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
 * That's much better than the original - thanks. I'm happy with it. Prioryman (talk) 18:58, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg ALT1 hook now verified against online source. Good to go. Hawkeye7 (talk) 20:03, 28 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Symbol possible vote.svg Y'know, that tick is just embarrassing, Hawkeye7. You can't have verified the ALT1 hook against the article because the speed record isn't mentioned anywhere in it, and hook facts must be mentioned in the article as well as sourced. I thought I was quite clear when I proposed ALT1 that the record wasn't there yet, and if the hook seemed like a good idea it would have to be added: if that's verified and put in the article. Perhaps Prioryman would update the article accordingly, so the hook can be properly approved. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:17, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol redirect vote 4.svg Hmmm. I read it in the source, which  says: They were the laughing-stock of the 1980s motor industry but did you know the Sinclair C5 broke a land speed record? ... Adam Harper, the driver who broke the world land speed record for an electric vehicle by whipping along at a staggering 150mph, was on hand to recount the tale of daring.'. Must have mis-remembered where it was. Added the factoid about  breaking the world land speed record for an electric vehicle to the article. Hawkeye7 (talk) 20:29, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol voting keep.svg - Let's hope my tick isn't considered as embarrassing as Hawkeyes. I put AGF on it, because the hook is the perfect example of paraphrasing of the source that mentions breaking the speed record. The article does not have paraphrasing. The hook does. I'll leave that up to the masses. PanydThe muffin is not subtle 12:30, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Reopened, as discussed at WT:DYK. No idea which record was broken, if any, but certainly not "the world land speed record for an electric vehicle", as claimed by the source. Fram (talk) 15:28, 18 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Let's change tactic. ALT2 : ... that Prince William and Prince Harry owned a Sinclair C5 (pictured) before they were old enough to drive? Confirmed here. (Also added to the article) Ritchie333 (talk)  (cont)  16:31, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Hang on a moment. According to Wired magazine the records it set were for the British electric land speed record (not the world) and the world land speed record for a three-wheeled electric vehicle. So we are still OK if we alter Bluemoonset's hook to refer to either "a British land speed record for electrics" or "a world land speed record for three-wheeled electrics". Prioryman (talk) 19:56, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, let's combine a source from 1996 that states he was planning to do X and Y, and a source from eight years later that (clearly incorrectly) claims he has done Z, and use those to claim on the main page that he has done X and Y. Never mind that we don't know what those two records were, whether they were broken in the intervening eight years or not, whether these C5 records were validated by anyone or just reported by the record breaker... WP:OR anyone?
 * Worse is of course that even these claims are totally incorrect (at least the world record part), as that one was set in 1974 already to 175mph). Fram (talk) 22:01, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
 * It's clear that there are many different categories of world record for different classes of electric vehicle. Hedlund's vehicle was clearly much bigger and very different from a C5. My proposed change of wording says that the C5 set "a world land speed record for three-wheeled electrics" (note the "a"), not the definitive "the" that you appear to be reading into it. I don't think it's our business to find out whether it was "validated by anyone". If you can do that, fine, but for our purposes we have reports (not solely the one in the article, either) stating that a 150 mph drive in a C5 set a new record. That's not remotely OR - it's reporting what's in the sources. Prioryman (talk) 22:57, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
 * "we have reports (not solely the one in the article, either) " Please provide these reliable sources that he actualy broke a record. I only found the Wales one, which stated that it set "the", not "a", world land speed record for electric vehicles. Your attempts to use this single source to create a hook that said it broke "a" world record, even though the one source we have which lists all official world records doesn't include Harper or the C5 at all, are getting pathetic. Fram (talk) 07:47, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Review of ALT2 (or alternative alts, or other sources to resolve above logjam) required. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  10:07, 20 November 2014 (UTC)


 * How about the following as an alternative? Prioryman (talk) 11:32, 20 November 2014 (UTC)


 * ALT3 ... that although the Sinclair C5 (pictured) was a commercial failure, it has since become a collectors' item, with examples selling for up to £5,000?
 * The article just says "a Special Edition C5 in its original box was reported to be worth more than £5,000 to collectors" - just being worth something does not directly imply it has been sold for that value. The source in question does say "a Special Edition C5 in itsbox fetches five grand these days." which is a slightly different emphasis, a "special edition" might imply lots of custom work has happened to greatly increase the stock value of the vehicle, making the hook misleading. Ritchie333 (talk)  (cont)  12:03, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The "special edition" was merely a C5 with all the optional accessories included. No custom work involved. I've added "with examples" to the hook to clarify that the £5K refers to specific examples rather than to C5s generally. Prioryman (talk) 12:26, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

EEng (talk) 19:35, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
 * ALT4 ... that The Sunday Times termed the Sinclair C5 electric vehicle (pictured) a "Formula One bath-chair"?


 * Symbol confirmed.svg To clear this, ALT4 is mentioned and sourced. Good to go on Hawkeye7's review. Fuebaey (talk) 13:55, 24 November 2014 (UTC)