Template:Did you know nominations/Yu Zigao


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:14, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Yu Zigao

 * ... that Yu Zigao commanded the Chinese expedition that forced the Dutch off the Pescadores?
 * ALT1:... that Yu Zigao&rsquo;s expedition against the Dutch on Penghu Island was responsible for their colonization of Taiwan?
 * ALT2:... that Yu Zigao commissioned several "red-barbarian cannon" as part of his expedition against the Dutch in 1624?
 * ALT3:... that Yu Zigao, dūdū of Fujian and Zhejiang, was forced to flee the pirate fleet of Zheng Zhilong in 1628?
 * ALT4:... that Yu Zigao, military commander of Fujian and Zhejiang, was on friendly terms with the pirate Li Dan but was defeated by Li's protégé Zheng Zhilong?
 * Reviewed: Will do Goofus and Gallant
 * Comment: @Reviewers: Don't worry. Everything's covered but you only need to verify the hook(s) you're most interested in.

Created by LlywelynII (talk). Self-nominated at 13:54, 25 December 2016 (UTC).

Also, kindly remember to sign your name to your posts. — Llywelyn II   05:42, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg New enough when nominated, long enough, QPQ done.
 * Thank you for the review. Since you split up the separate issues into bullet points, I'll just reply in the same format.
 * Running Away with the Circus is published by Lulu.com. Definitely not a reliable source.
 * It's published by Friendlysong Books (as shown in the article and verifiable at the linked work); it's sourcing minor information based on a personal visit to the site, which is fine if not scholarly; the cited information is unrelated to any of the hooks (and thus completely irrelevant to this review though a very legitimate concern prior to  status). Leaving the cite and the non-dubious information is better than removing either, but you're welcome to find a better source or note the objection on the article's talk page if you like. —  Llywelyn II   05:42, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
 * WP:SPS is part of policy. I can't even link to the page on lulu.com where the book is listed because the domain lulu.com is blacklisted. Now, if we can show that the author is an expert, then using a self-published book is okay, but I don't agree that leaving the cite to a self-published book in is better than removing it. I'm happy to get a third-opinion on this, however. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:43, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Earwig's tool shows no violations and random googling of three phrases turned up no evidence of plagiarism.
 * Can we standardize the way the subject is referred to in the article - we have Zigao, Yu, and Yu Zigao. Normally I'd have fixed this myself but I'm not sure which is the convention and/or complies with the MOS.
 * Of course not. Now that I've looked up your name, I'm pretty sure you already know this. When he's being distinguished from his father or other members of his family, you use his first name. Elsewhere in the article it's perfectly standard to alternate between using the last name by itself and the full name. See literally any biography article on this or any other encyclopedia. That said, I had forgotten to add the chinese name template, so thanks for that reminder. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LlywelynII (talk • contribs)
 * The relevant guideline is WP:SURNAME, and I was just trying to spare you someone coming along and complaining that it's wrong for our MOS. If you prefer to not comply with the MOS, I'm certainly not going to hold up the DYK nom on it. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:43, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
 * There's no reason to hang up the DYK nom, since it's not violating any guideline. Reread the one you linked and see the linked entries. — Llywelyn II   12:37, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I prefer the first hook, but it isn't clear in the article that Yu Zigao was actually in command of the forces that forced the Dutch off the islands. ALT2 is directly supported by a citation. Likewise ALT4. [—User:Ealdgyth.]
 * He was the military governor (i.e., supreme commander) for the region, he assembled the forces, and he was the one who personally forced the Dutch to remove themselves. There's a linked cite if any of that is unclear. If that doesn't meet your idea of "command", well, there are the other hooks.
 * Given the recent number of pulled hooks over similar wording issues, let's err on the safe side. Yes, normally I would assume that "commanded" fit in this situation, but you know what they say ... "assume makes an ass out of me". As for the forgetting to sign, I apologize. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:43, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, it's a silly hangup but you're welcome to have it. You can just use one of the other hooks. — Llywelyn II   12:34, 6 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Symbol redirect vote 4.svg New reviewer needed to decide which ALT hooks are usable, neutral, and interesting. (I've struck the original hook per the original reviewer's concerns.) Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:06, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
 * , ALT1 is verified well enough for my taste (after checking the book via the English Google), and it has the great benefit of having the Dutch in there--but ALT 4 is fine as well (I have to take that one on good faith, since I can't see that page of the book). You pick. Drmies (talk) 02:27, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Drmies, thanks for taking this on. There's no need for me to pick; that will be up to the promoter. However, unless you're willing to approve this review—a tick is needed—this nomination is still in limbo. Any chance of a formal approval? BlueMoonset (talk) 04:26, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Symbol voting keep.svg Oh those rules. Drmies (talk) 04:30, 18 March 2017 (UTC)