Template talk:Infobox settlement/Archive 33

Short description templates
Hello! I'm an admin from SqWiki and we have imported the same modules and templates that EnWiki has in regard to the settlement infobox. Can someone explain to me why are we getting so many auto-generated templates (link) from this template? I understand the general outline of the mechanism at work with the short description and Wikidata. I don't understand why are we getting templates and what should be the content of those templates generally speaking. - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:15, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * See WP:VAR. The magic word SHORTDESC does not exist on your wiki. There are probably a few ways to work around this difference. One probably stupid idea is to change Stampa:Short description so that it is blank on sq.wiki. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:20, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Jonesey95, oh... Any idea how the other wiki projects have handled this? I mean, we can ask for SHORTDESC to be activated as a magic word at us as well but... Are there any reasons why only EnWiki has that? Is it just that other wikis haven't yet asked for it? Or are there other reasons at play? — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:27, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Other wikiprojects use the short descriptions that are provided by Wikidata. We at en.WP decided we didn't like that method. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:30, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Jonesey95, ah... What change do we do so that we go the Wikidata way? — Klein Muçi (talk) 17:19, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * No changes. If you go to the search box on sq.WP and type "Ernest Koliqi" (do not press Enter), you will see suggested results. Below the article title for first result, you will see "shkrimtar shqiptar". That short description is automatically pulled from Wikidata (click "All entered languages" near the top of the page to see the descriptions in many languages). – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:40, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Jonesey95, I see. What about depopulating the wanted templates list? Is there any change you can suggest that gives a good solution to that? Apart from blanking that template (which looks like a crude hack - maybe it's not?) — Klein Muçi (talk) 19:41, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * If you wanted to customize your imported templates to remove calls to Stampa:Short description, I suppose you could replace the contents of Stampa:Short description with a tracking category that would tell you which pages are trying to create short descriptions. If you modify those templates, they would stop trying to use the template. The problem will happen again when you import new versions of the templates, of course. I have tried to think of a negative result from blanking the template, and I haven't thought of anything. It is probably the best option. I would leave some documentation in place; feel free to copy some version of this conversation over to the documentation page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:55, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Jonesey95, soo, like this? Just double-checking I've understood you correctly. (Assuming just deleting the template wouldn't work, no?) — Klein Muçi (talk) 20:14, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. Now if you edit sq:James Blunt and open "Stampa të përdorura në këtë faqe:", you will see that it is not trying to find "Stampa:SHORTDESC:Musical artist‏‎" anymore. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:21, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Jonesey95, thank you very much for the detailed help! Hopefully the wanted templates list will soon be depopulated now. — Klein Muçi (talk) 20:35, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Edit request 28 September 2023
Reposting this as I realized that I hadn't posted it as an edit request. I've noticed that several short descriptions for Brazilian municipalities use the following format "Municipality in REGION, Brazil". This can be seen in the following articles: São Gabriel da Cachoeira, Tabatinga, Petropolis, etc... While not incorrect, this would be like the Chicago article being "City in Midwest, United States" or the San Francisco article being "City in West Coast, United States". I think these short descriptions are autogenerated from pulling the subdivision_type1 field from the settlement infobox template. I propose instead that it should use the subdivision_type2 field, so that it uses the Brazilian state that the municipality is located in. BaduFerreira (talk) 15:26, 28 September 2023 (UTC)


 * the issue is that the use of these fields is not the same country-to-country. For example in the United States, type1 is for state and type2 is for county. Not sure what the best fix here would be. Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 20:12, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm very new to Lua and can't figure out how to make local changes and test them in a non-disruptive way, but wouldn't picking subdivision_name #3 instead of subdivision_name #2 if subdivision_name #1 is Brazil work? Would that be too computationally strenuous for every instance of Module:Settlement short description to check if the country is Brazil and, if so, do different behavior? BaduFerreira (talk) 22:02, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * You use the sandbox copies of both Template:Infobox settlement/sandbox and Module:Settlement short description/sandbox to experiment. No it would not be too computationally strenuous to do that check, and it may be that other countries will benefit from your work too. I can envisage some kind of configuration table which tells the module how to format the short descriptions for various different countries. I've disabled this request because it is obviously a long way from fruition. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:42, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Mapframe?
Sorry for silly question; is it possible to get mapframes in the Infobox? I see in the archives that it was discussed in 2020, but a "mapframe" arg doesn't seem to work for me. toobigtokale (talk) 15:09, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 28 October 2023
Under "Parameter names and descriptions", the description for 'population_note' should not refer to Windsor, Ontario as an example, as that article infobox no longer (evidently) contains any entry for 'population_note'. A different example should be found for reference. Veggies (talk) 08:43, 28 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Full-protection-shackle-no-text.svg Not done: is usually not required for edits to the documentation or categories of templates using a documentation subpage. Use the 'edit' link at the top of the green "Template documentation" box to edit the documentation subpage. Let me know if you cannot edit the /doc page for some reason.  P.I. Ellsworth &thinsp;,  ed.  put'er there 15:12, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Old name as "other name"
From what I observed for the actual usage of the field, other name is meant for commonly used and presently used name for a city. Saint Petersburg doesn't have "Leningrad/Petrograd", Nakhon Ratchasima has "Korat".

Can we add an old/former/historical names field for this purpose? Like Parañaque is barely known as Old Palanyag these days but the archaic name was added in at some point.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 07:40, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
 * That depends on how common the old name is still being used. But in general, former and archaic names should not be used as "other name" (I have been removing those too when I see them). Regards, --  P 1 9 9  ✉ 13:24, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I realized I have editing perms for the documentation. I tweaked the usage guide for other_name as per this discussion. Is my version better and more clear? (from "For places with a former or more common name like Bombay or Saigon" to "For places with other commonly used names like Bombay or Saigon") Hariboneagle927 (talk) 10:52, 4 November 2023 (UTC)


 * I think it would be clearer, if the intention is not to use this for old names, to find examples that are not also old names. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:13, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Is there a way to change what order the information displays?
I Would like to have the factual information display above the images/maps, & have the nickname(s) be directly bellow the actual name. 😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 (talk) 02:32, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * No, there is no way to change the order. Nor should there be! Just imagine all the edit wars if every user changes the order to what they like, not to speak of the lack of uniformity... --  P 1 9 9  ✉ 13:52, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The problem is look at the way the infobox looks on this page: Middleton, Utah
 * Is there any custom infoboxes I could use?
 * 😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 (talk) 14:52, 14 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Template:Infobox settlement is the infobox that communities in USA use, please don't change to some other random infobox. •  Sbmeirow  •  Talk  • 16:30, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I wasn't going to use a random one, the problemis the fact that you have to scroll to the bottom of the infobox to see the usefull facts. 😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 (talk) 16:33, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The infobox in that article isn't that bad compared to the length in some other articles, such as Dallas. My point is meant that you really don't have a choice, because all community articles use the same template.  Anyway, I moved the photo in that article, so now your problem is solved.  •  Sbmeirow  •  Talk  • 20:44, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * thanks 😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 (talk) 20:48, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Edit request 14 November 2023
Description of suggested change: Please remove from the list in Check for unknown parameters (Short description was removed in 2019-08)  — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 10:41, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:24, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Added about 6k articles to the error tracking category — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 21:49, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Vote for consensus on "Order of maps"
Hi, the order of maps should be first pushpin_map and then image_map, because we should start from general to more specific. This rule is not applied for example in the article Bushehr. I.e. it currently shows first image_map and then shows pushpin maps. Please do something to reverse it. Thanks, Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 16:54, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. Primefac (talk) 20:53, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Please discuss to reach consensus about changing order. We should first show more general map and then show more specific one. I.e., pushpin should be on top of mapframe image. Pushpin shows more general aspect, i.e. map in a country or continent, and then we show inside content in mapframe image. So the order should be reversed. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 08:15, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Primefac Is my method of reaching consensus, ok? If it is, please vote for it yourself. Thanks, Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 08:17, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Primefac Making consensus on this change seems a very time-consuming process. But I really think that this change is reasonable, the order should be from more general to more specific. This order is obvious and is applied in many other phenomenons in science and in English language. So, I think that it is obvious, and no consensus is needed, because it is very time-consuming. Thanks, Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 17:04, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * See below. Primefac (talk) 19:17, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

I disagree with this change. Such order is purely based on subjective preference. Who says that we "should" have the general map first? There is no benefit to changing this. We're not changing layouts every time someone doesn't like it... --  P 1 9 9  ✉ 20:50, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Motto parameter
Regarding the 'motto' parameter: if the character-string of a motto contains commas, it appears to be parsed as containing more than one motto, and the display of the motto in the Infobox reads Motto(s):

Is there a workaround? and/or could the spec for 'motto' be tweaked?

Protalina (talk) 15:34, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It looks like a comma is currently set so that Pluralize from text views it as "likely", hence the (s) as it's not definite. I don't really know if we can make a hard delineation between mottos with a comma and multiple mottoes in one parameter. Primefac (talk) 21:11, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The documentation for that template says to insert force singular into the parameter value in the affected article. It works. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:11, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Huh, missed that. Good catch. Primefac (talk) 15:23, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 20 December 2023
On Navajo Nation, the flag currently bears the alt/title text " " because the flag alt/title does not use the page name by default. It seems this also happens with the seal, coat of arms, etc.

Please replace all instances (7 of them) of to match the syntax used for this infobox's above:

I've tested this change at Template:Infobox settlement/sandbox. There's no applicable test case for this since all of the ones in /testcases all have set name or official_name parameters (to avoid "Template:Infobox settlement/testcases" from being used). But you could go to Navajo Nation, edit the article, replace the use of "Infobox settlement" with the sandbox, and it should work properly in the preview. Chlod (say hi!) 03:50, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ hi chlod SWinxy (talk) 01:38, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
 * thanks, @SWinxy! :D Chlod (say hi!) 01:49, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Why is Hellersdorf in the "bad settlement type" category?
Can anyone explain why Hellersdorf in ? – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:51, 14 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Looks like this gets rid of that error and creates another one? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:00, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Confusingly, City is a valid parameter in Infobox German place, which is a wrapper for this template, which calls Module:Settlement short description, which generates the error category. I haven't been able to figure out why the module thinks that the value it is fed is a bad settlement type, though. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:06, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

"Show both" instead of "Show all"
When there's two maps that can be flipped between, instead of an option that says "Show all" it should say "Show both". Akeosnhaoe (talk) 10:02, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Some articles contain more than two pushpin maps in the infobox (though I don't think I've seen more than three). Deor (talk) 12:03, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I understand, and for those cases (3 or more) it should be "Show all". Akeosnhaoe (talk) 03:14, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
 * It's irrelevant - this is not the place to discuss the matter, as this infobox has no control over Location map. If you want the map to change as proposed, it should be discussed at Module talk:Location map. Primefac (talk) 13:53, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Embedding Infobox UNESCO World Heritage Site
When I set the value of child parameter of the sub-template to Yes, why doesn't it appear as intended, especially within Infobox settlement? The border still exists. Natsuikomin (talk) 11:42, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Can you give an example? E.g. at Marrakesh this seems to work as intended. Fram (talk) 12:09, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
 * In George Town, Penang infobox. Can you believe what I've been going thru? The order of paramater matters. The sub-infobox should be right below the website parameter (so the website would be the last parameter in the infobox if the sub-parameter were removed). And the infobox I edited has its website parameter in the middle of the other parameters. Moreover, the value of child parameter inside the sub-infobox should be 'yes' (not capitalised) instead of 'Yes' (capitalised). This is the first I met a case like this. I used to think that Wikipedia server machine will not take the order into account and just rearranges the parameters order for us when we want to render the page on our browser. Hereby, I have found the solution after it took me about 1 hour. Thanks. Natsuikomin (talk) 12:54, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Okay, I lately noticed a new thing about the order. The order is the case if I don't use the module parameter. I originally just put the Infobox UNESCO World Heritage Site at the bottom of the parent infobox because I took the infobox on Hebron as an example. Hmm.. Natsuikomin (talk) 13:26, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The documentation for this template explains: "module: To embed infoboxes at the bottom of the infobox". You figured it out on your own. The order of parameters does not matter if they are used correctly. I have fixed Hebron. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:51, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I know. At first I used the module parameter, but the sub-infobox had a border around and the width didn't occupy 100% as it looks now on George Town, Penang and Hebron. It likely happened because I set the value of child parameter of the sub-infobox to 'Yes' (capitalised) instead of 'yes' (not capitalised). That's why I use Hebron infobox as an example and, as you can see from my previous comments, the second problem came. Natsuikomin (talk) 22:41, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Move some items from left side to right side
I think some items, like elevation_max_point and elevation_min_point, should be moved from the left to the right side. When there is too much text on any row on the left side (like these two parameters), the left column automatically becomes wider and the right column becomes narrower, which isn't great, because the right column generally has more text overall.

An example is Montgomery (village), New York, where you can see the wider left column and narrower right column. I prefer names, areas, and population density on a single line when possible.

I will also note that the "desktop" and mobile views look different. There is much more whitespace on the "desktop" version, and on the page I mentioned, the ratio between left and right column widths is better on the mobile version. Kk.urban (talk) 20:28, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
 * That page looks normal to me in both the desktop and mobile versions. I use the default Vector 2022 skin for desktop. That said, I also think those two parameters should be moved to the right side; they are values, not labels. I have modified the sandbox, and you can see a test case in my sandbox. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:32, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
 * @Jonesey95 It looks different from "normal" because on most settlement articles, the right column is wider than the left. Your sandbox looks good. Kk.urban (talk) 22:20, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Default image alt text duplicates caption
This code for this infobox when embedding an image contains. When the  parameter is empty or missing, this results in the image's ALT text getting set to the text of the caption. (example) This is an improper ALT text: (MOS:ALT) This behavior is also unhelpful for sighted readers in that it repeats the caption right below the image. Opencooper (talk) 16:19, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * When I expand the infobox at Algiers using Special:ExpandTemplates, I do not see any alt attributes in the code for any of the images, but there is a lot of code. Can you please create a minimal example showing the problem? – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:42, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I should have been more clear. The alt attribute I am referring to is in the final generated HTML on the article's page. If you right click the image and use your browser's inspect element feature, you'll see . Opencooper (talk) 00:00, 5 March 2024 (UTC)


 * What would be your proposed resolution? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:07, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Many other Infobox templates set the image title to the alt text, if there is any. So one solution would be to stop using the caption: . Opencooper (talk) 05:34, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Feel free to make that change in the sandbox to see if it makes a difference. When I expand the infobox at Algiers, the File call in wikitext looks like . I don't see an alt tag in there, which makes me think that changing this infobox will not change the rendered HTML. Something in the MediaWiki code may be generating the alt text in the rendered HTML. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:30, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I was operating under the assumption that these templates did not use the image linking syntax, but this proves otherwise. Therefore, your comment over at Infobox writer seems to apply: . So technically this is expected behavior of the image linking syntax. (though confusingly, is not seen on all Infobox templates) But this behavior is against the MoS and results in unhelpful duplication. However, I'm not sure where to get this changed and would probably need an RfC. Opencooper (talk) 16:49, 15 March 2024 (UTC)