User talk:ATC/January—August 2009/Archive 4

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WP:NICK
Hi ATC, welcome to the project. Since you said you're willing to offer help, i'd like your opinion on this article. Do you have any suggestions on how it can be improved? Cheers! John Sloan (view / chat) 03:16, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the advice ATC! And call me John ;-) - I'm going offline (and to bed, its 3.37am here) in a few minutes. So i'll put some of your suggestions into action tomorrow. Unless of course, you wish to do it yourself! I'd have no objections. Thanks again and good night! :-) John Sloan (view / chat) 03:39, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Without doubt. Its just best to leave the header out until a plot is actually written. Sorry, didn't mean to come across as reverting you :-) John Sloan (view / chat) 22:57, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

New empty articles
A friendly bit of advice - you might want to add a tag to articles you push out with no content other than infoboxes. I understand you're working on them, but people doing new pages patrol might tag them for deletion. Cheers! §FreeRangeFrog 05:11, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

The Naked Brothers Band episodes
I understand you were working on those episode articles but it's inappropriate to leave underconstruction tags for weeks at a time, especially since you clearly went to work on others things. Since the articles weren't anything more than just infobox placeholders, I have redirected them all back to List of The Naked Brothers Band episodes. If you have actual content to add there, (and it should more than in-universe details) just undo the redirect and add it. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 05:47, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Great Trip (TV episode)
A tag has been placed on Great Trip (TV episode), requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing no content to the reader. Please note that external links, "See also" section, book reference, category tag, template tag, interwiki link, rephrasing of the title, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article don't count as content. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you plan to expand the article, you can request that administrators wait a while for you to add contextual material. To do this, affix the template   to the page and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this.  Blanchardb - Me•MyEars•MyMouth - timed 02:29, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Been There, Rocked That (TV special)
A tag has been placed on Been There, Rocked That (TV special), requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing no content to the reader. Please note that external links, "See also" section, book reference, category tag, template tag, interwiki link, rephrasing of the title, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article don't count as content. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you plan to expand the article, you can request that administrators wait a while for you to add contextual material. To do this, affix the template   to the page and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this.  Blanchardb - Me•MyEars•MyMouth - timed 02:44, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Son-Rise: A Miracle of Love GA Review
I've done the review on the article Son-Rise: A Miracle of Love and I've had to fail it, it's just not up to "Good Article" standards, I've left comments on the talk page for you. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the GA criterias as well. MPJ-DK (talk) 05:47, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

The Tic Code GAR
Hi, I have placed the GAN on hold - there are some points that need to be addressed. Please see Talk:The Tic Code. Jezhotwells (talk) 19:24, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

March 2009
Welcome to Wikipedia. The recent edit you made to The Naked Brothers Band (TV series) has been reverted, as it appears to have removed content from the page without explanation. Use the sandbox for testing; if you believe the edit was constructive, please ensure that you provide an informative edit summary. You may also wish to read the introduction to editing. Thank you.  Math Cool  10  Sign here! 02:14, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't l logged in. I'm User:ATC. Please put it on my talk page. ATC. Talk 19:46, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Re:The Naked Brothers Band: The Movie
The WP:HATNOTE says "Not to be confused with Camp Rock, Camp Rock 2, or Jonas Brothers: The 3D Concert Experience." If a person typed in The Naked Brothers Band looking for this movie, why the heck would they be confused with a Jonas Bothers movie with a completely different name? I think those links are more appropriate for a see also section. Reywas92 Talk 01:06, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Naked Brothers Band Episodes / TV Specials
Hello. I have a few questions for you that hopefully you can answer for me.

1. Where can I find a source/proof that "No School Fool's Day" is actually an episode? 2. Is the episode title "No School Fool's Day" or "No School's Fool Day" or something different? The main page and list of episodes page have conflicting titles for it. 3. Is "No School Fool's Day" considered a TV Special or an episode? Again, the main page and list of episodes page have conflicting information. The main page calls it a TV Special, but it is listed as a general episode under the season 3 section of the list of episodes page as opposed to it being listed under the "TV Specials" category. If you think it is a TV Special, why? 4. Why are the two concert specials for season 2 considered episodes under the season 2 section and not TV Specials under the "TV Specials" section?

Thanks for your help. JLKTENNIS43 (talk) 03:19, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for answering my questions and for providing some clarification. I'm also wondering if it is confirmed that the show is actually ending after this season and if so, is there a source out there that you know of that I can look at? Also, I apologize for messing up the whole "and" and "&" thing. I didn't think it made a difference so I was just trying to be consistent. I'll try to be more careful in the future. Thanks again for your help. JLKTENNIS43 (talk) 06:54, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Naked Brothers Band
When I last looked at the article, I saw some serious problems in the well-written department, and if I remember correctly, I suggested a copyedit by the league of copyeditors. I'll follow up with a full review in the coming 24 hours. - Mgm|(talk) 08:26, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Copyedit Request
I appreciate the request, however I am currently swamped with non-wikipedia responsibilities and don't have time to tackle an article. Sorry for not being able to help. Hopefully I will be able to help you in the future. GL with the article. Washburn mav (talk) 01:35, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi ATC. :) The article does need a lot of help with copyediting, and I've begun working on it some. A few sentences are hard for me to fix, though, because I'm not aware of the topic and what certain phrases were supposed to mean, so I can't promise anything. However, I will give it a brief copyedit through, and perhaps drop a few notes on your talkpage if I can't clarify something. Best,  Jamie ☆ S93  13:04, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, okay. I figured I'd run into a few issues like that—the first wording + second interpretation = different meaning. I'm about to start a section at the article's talkpage asking for a few clarifications, so we can move the discussion there. Best,  Jamie ☆ S93  23:58, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Toni Seawright
Good job on the revisions of Toni Seawright. I've revised my !vote on the AfD. I could probably go ahead and close it early myself, but I'll let a neutral admin take a look at it, to be safe. I'm pretty sure it'll be closed with a keep, though. —C.Fred (talk) 17:09, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Naked Brothers copyedit
I've done it. Can you go through it and remove the repeat occurrences of the people's full names. Full names only need to be used once, and after that only the surname is used (normally), but since this is about some kids, and some people have the same surname, it should be ok to use the first naems for kids and surnames for adults. Also for future writing, contractions like "won't" are not allowed on Wikipedia -> "will not". Another technique that I use a lot is to try and avoid using the same noun in the sentence more than once because it is considered clumsy, eg "A + N did this and A said" --> "A + N did this and the former/latter said". A lot of the changes were because of that. A good guide is the prose manual on teh user page of. Are you looking at A FAC?  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) 05:29, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, date formats in the refs are inconsistent. In some cases they are missing  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) 05:30, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, we're not supposed to use Mrs/Mr titles etc in articles  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) 23:57, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Replied  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) 07:16, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

DIR/Floortime
I followed up at Talk:Autism therapies. Eubulides (talk) 06:15, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

The Naked Brothers Band: The Movie GA review
Hi, I have reviewed this article as the original reviewer seems to have lost interest. It is on hold for a few minor adjustments. Jezhotwells (talk) 20:24, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You might want to check with before the FAC about the sources. She is an expert in analysing the acceptability of sources  YellowMonkey   ( cricket calendar poll! ) 03:42, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I've replied as well  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) 00:57, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Well done  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) 04:02, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There is one sentence that seemed confusing so I couldn't copyedit it  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) 07:17, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar if you meant it for me? Jezhotwells (talk) 22:14, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Regarding citations in the lede
Hi, I saw your question over at Jezhotwell's talk page. In general, citations are not required in the lede. See WP:Lead. Normally they are not required in the plot summary either, since the source is the film itself. decltype (talk) 05:27, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, great! Glad to help. decltype (talk) 23:47, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

The Naked Brothers Band: The Movie
Hi. Responding to this thread on my talk page. First of all, great work on the article so far; it's come on leaps and bounds since I last looked at it. I'm especially pleased to see a good-sized section on the development and production, written from an out of universe perspective; many film articles seem content just to rehash plot and character details—yours doesn't.

As it stands, I don't think the article is quite ready for FAC. If I were reviewing the article, I wouldn't insist upon a "Themes" or "Interpretations" section; for a film of this type, I don't see that it's within the article's scope, so that's OK. However, I would consider it not comprehensive if it lacked critical reception, release and audience reception details (should these be available). These are especially important for assessing the film's impact, which is a major facet of a standard film article's encyclopedic content. Reviews can perhaps be sourced from one (or more) of three time periods: when it first appeared at the film festival; when it was first broadcast; when it was released on DVD. There may also be some retrospective coverage, and perhaps a review from a publication that targets the same intended audience would be appropriate (teen magazines, etc).

By "release", I mean details of its first appearance at the Hamptons festival (which you already have) alongside television broadcast dates and DVD release dates. Audience reception would cover things such as television viewing figures, DVD sales and popularity (it spawned a TV series, so people must have liked it). Some of the more surprising claims may need supporting citations alongside those that point direct to interviews and webcasts from the Draper/Wolff family (e.g. that Alex learned to play the saxophone at the age of two). These are my initial thoughts, and while I'm sure I haven't covered everything, I don't think there's anything else major to add in terms of how the article is structured and what type of information it presents (though whether it comprehensively does so is something only an extended hunt for sources will reveal).

One small point to consider: be wary of expanding what is in the cited articles with your own personal knowledge. For example, the statement that "Nat wrote his first song, titled "Mama Don't Let Me Cry", at the age of five" is not fully supported by the cited article, which simply states that "Nat ... has been writing music since he was 5." Every line in the article needs to be verifiable; even if you know something to be true, including it without a cast-iron citation might be considered original research. Otherwise, nice work. I hope to see the article at FAC at some point in the future. All the best, Steve  T • C 13:24, 1 June 2009 (UTC)



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thanks Jezhotwells (talk) 02:21, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

TV show
Sure. Anything in particular?  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) 02:35, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I can lock things for you  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 03:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

FAC
If you take a look at the WP:FAC page, you will see your nomination at the top of the page (except for Matthew Boulton, which was just nominated after yours). The newest nominations go to the top of the page, and that's why I fixed your nomination. In addition, the next time you nominate a FAC, make sure to follow the instructions at the top of the page. I already added the template for you on the talk page so that visitors who go to the talk page will have a direct link to the FAC nomination. If you need further clarification, let me know, and best wishes on your nomination. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 21:38, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No worries, I was just a little confused as I thought you could still see your nomination. The page is definitely laid out differently than WP:GAN. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 00:42, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Copy edit request
Hi ATC, I'm pretty swamped at the moment, but I'll have a look to see what needs to be done and get back to you in a few days if that's okay. Thanks. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:53, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I've started a preliminary copy-edit. Have a look and let me know whether you object to any of the changes. Also, this may sound stupid, but it might be a good idea to insert a sentence in the lead, or in the "development" section about how old Nat and Alex are in the show's first episode. This is a long article, (but nicely done), so it'll take a little while to get through it all. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 00:25, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Encounterments isn't a real word, so it had to be changed. I'll have a look at the source, and reword if necessary. I have some suggestions for overall improvements that I'll post on the article talk page as soon as I've finished looking at the entire article and all the sources. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 15:46, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The three dictionaries I've checked don't have the word "encounterments." However, let me know if you can find it, then we'll keep it in. I won't be able to work on the article until later anyway. Thanks. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 17:19, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I've been through the entire article and posted a list of suggestions for changes on the discussion page. Some of them you'll have to make decisions about, so read the suggestions and then we'll keep the discussion on the article talk page. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 23:36, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi. I'm trying to tackle the cliches. I replaced "object of affection" with "love interest" typically used to describe characters in plays, TV shows, movies and books. But I wanted your opinion on the phrase. If you don't like it, I think leaving "object of affection" is fine. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 00:54, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

The Naked Brothers Band
Replied here. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 02:33, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Replied here. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 02:41, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry I didnt get back to you sooner (regarding the Spinal Tap/Brothers request) - Im not sure Im a good source to confer on this topic. I havent been very active on the site in sometime. I believed all of my photos were of fair use and well attributed. However over time theyve been edited and many of the credible attributions were disputed to the point I felt it wasnt worth fighting for them further. I also saw blatant conflicts emerge a couple years back when the creater of Wiki edited his own bio, deleting some past indiscretions. Growing contradictions left me a little cold to spending much time contributing. Might want to consult one of the major managers!

Nat & Alex images
Have a look at this image & site. Then have a look at the Hannah Montana wiki article that provides an explanation to use a photo. So, possibly if the photo is "promotional" it's usable. Also, you could contact Nickelodean and ask for a promotional image which would then belong to you, and you could use it. Hope that is helpful. I posted on the thread above about the cliches -- am almost done with the article.Truthkeeper88 (talk) 23:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * See my page here for answer to image question. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 01:07, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Naked Brothers question
I don't understand this sentence from the "Reception" section, first sentence, fourth paragraph: The premiere of the series acquired the channel as favorable for children aged 6-11. It either should be deleted or reworded. I can reword if you explain what the sentence should say. Also, I've asked another editor I know about images, so we may have somebody joining us on my user page. Might as well keep all the discussion there for now. Btw -- sorry I didn't put the rewritten 2nd paragraph from "Filming" in my sandbox; was working on two articles at once. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 00:28, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Editing titles
Just so you know, I'll start copyediting for titles according to WP:TITLE. The name of a TV show is in italics; the name of an individual episode in quotation marks, and so on. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanx! ATC . Talk 23:52, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Done (I think)
Basically I've finished copyediting. The article is looking better and seems to read better. At this point my largest concern are the redundancies, but I've decided to leave as is, and if any reviewers mention them I'd be happy to return and help eliminate repetition. Have a look at the article and let me know if you think anything else needs to be done. Once I've signed off I'll take down the copyedit banner. Btw -- the images really look nice! Truthkeeper88 (talk) 00:26, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, we should keep the discussion on one page, but need to know if by "Additional Cast" you mean the "Recurring Stars" section. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 01:10, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, my bad. I confused myself with the film section's title. ATC . Talk 01:16, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, good news... that last connection I was talking about, particularly, Toni Seawright, responded and will be sending me lots of photos to use for the film and series, in addition to her son Qaasim Middleton's article with all pictures! ATC . Talk 01:27, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * See, it was just a question of time. I think if you can cut the words in the caption for the hanging photo (even by using last names for all cast members except Nat & Alex) the photo will format well and you may be able to increase the pixel size.
 * As for the "Recurring Cast", it's a little rocky. I've just reworded the Kristina Reyes section (very long-winded). If I were to rewrite the entire section I'd probably eliminate the dashes if that's okay with you. I have worked on the wording in that section, so it's been cleaned up a bit. As for having the crew listed with their bios -- I like it. But, again I won't be evaluating the article. That said, it's important, I think, to see what a very experienced crew worked on the show, which most likely contributed to the success, so in that sense the crew is notable. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 01:38, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't mid if you move the em-dashes as long as the grammar is good. ATC . Talk 02:17, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Very sorry but have been caught up in an edit war (battle) and it's not fun!! Have to get some time away, but will focus entirely on your article when I return very soon. Cheers. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 22:23, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem, I would help you with it, but I'm going a way in a week and wont be back 'till August. Good luck with the edit battle. ATC . Talk 22:45, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll be back tomorrow. Just needed a little time. Before you go, post a list of changes you want, or let me know whether you think the article is fine for now. Also, let me know in advance so the banners can come down. I'll keep an eye on the article for vandalism. Hopefully will finish the Recurring Cast section tomorrow.Truthkeeper88 (talk) 03:00, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Per this comment, I've withdrawn the FAC. Leave the FAC template on the article's talk page until the bot has done its thing, and good luck next time! Steve T • C 14:17, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Future copyedits
Hi. I haven't forgotten about you and The Naked Brothers, but due to my admonishment am deep in research for a little while. Please post on my talk page (so I can preserve it) your recommendations for improvements to the article, and I'll work on it while you're on holiday. I've enjoyed working with you. Enjoy yourself while you're gone! Truthkeeper88 (talk) 16:22, 3 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Yikes! You're back! I haven't really worked on the article and have been really really busy on other articles.
 * Seriously, though, welcome back! I think the only section left to copy edit is the "Additional Cast" section, although it's already had one run through. Actually I've been thinking about this article, and I thought when you're ready, go ahead and submit for GA status, and then work from the reviewer's recommendations. I'll carve time out this weekend to finish the "Additional Cast" section. Take care. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 01:45, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, looking at the wrong article. Meant the "Recurring Stars" section. Just had a quick read through, and it doesn't seem too bad. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 01:53, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * No problem, thanx for all of your hard work so far. ATC . Talk 14:01, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd like to work on the wiki links in The Naked Brothers Band (TV series) as per this about overlinking, if that's okay with you. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 16:38, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I've decided to do another complete run through of the prose, if you don't mind. Also, I slightly reformatted the tables to eliminate some white space. Please revert if you hate them. Still have half the article to go, but I must say, it's a nice article. You've done a great job! Truthkeeper88 (talk) 04:04, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi ATC! Essentially I'm done with The Naked Brothers Band (TV series) for the time being. That said, there may still be a few rough spots, and if you need help when you submit it for review I'd be more than happy to continue copyediting if you'd like. As I've mentioned before, it's a nice article about a current topic and I think you've done a good job. If you need me, give a shout! Truthkeeper88 (talk) 02:22, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Recovered Journeys Through the Autism Spectrum... page
Hi I noticed you've made some changes to the page I started for the film RECOVERED Journeys Through the Autism Spectrum and Back. I have a jpg of the movie poster that I would like to upload, but since I am a new contributor to wikipedia, it seems I do not have permissions. Do you have a way to upload jpgs? If so could I send it to you to add to the page? Thanks! --Arttwin (talk) 06:11, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the help! Image is up.--Arttwin (talk) 19:36, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Adam Lambert straw poll on including/removing "Order #" and "Results" columns from the performances section
Hi, this may seem rather trivial but I'm trying to gauge community consensus on including or removing "Order #" and "Results" columns from the performances section on the Adam Lambert article which you have been in some way recently involved. The poll is here. Your time is appreciated. -- Banj e b oi   21:38, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I will. Thanx for inviting me! ATC. Talk 03:06, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

FAC
Hiya. User:Dabomb87 and I have refactored the FAC page a bit. All the de-fragmented discussion threads were getting difficult to follow. I've also left a couple more replies. Best, Matthewedwards : Chat  02:57, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Twaked  YellowMonkey  ( cricket photo poll! ) paid editing=POV 02:52, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Bobby Newman
Alas, my Wiki time will be limited in the near future. Perhaps in a couple of weeks.... Eubulides (talk) 02:20, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (File:Jonathan Pillot in The Naked Brothers Band- The Movie.jpg)
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Orphaned non-free image (File:NatWolff-NBB Movie Crazy Car.jpg)
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If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of "file" pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. FileBot (talk) 07:09, 22 August 2009 (UTC) 