User talk:Agne27/Archive 10

Jeannie Cho Lee MW's page
Hi Agne, glad that Jeannie Cho Lee's page made one of the object of your project. I have recently tried repeatedly to upload a more update and more comprehensive and more structured biography of hers but I kept her getting reverted. The tone is actually just the same as the previous one and I have included much more updated external links for verification as well (they all link to reputable media and third party sources). May I know why I still get reverted all the time? Thanks! Cheers, winestudent725 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Winestudent725 (talk • contribs) 10:07, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

History of Bordeaux Wines
Heya Agne. I made a couple changes to the Roman Times section. I don't have the Johnson book in front of me, but the term "Dark Ages" has not really been used for a long time. Medievalists consider the term inaccurate because it implies nothing of value was going on between the fall of the Western Empire and the Carolingians and it implies a hard break between Roman Europe and Barbarian Europe when it was really more of a "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" sort of situation, initially at least. Even the wp page Dark Ages is just a discussion of the term. I tried to rewrite around it, but I'd appriciate it if you'd take a look to see if you think it still works. thanks. Josh (talk) 00:56, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I just went with the terminology as the WP:RS provided it. Your revision seems fine. AgneCheese/Wine 23:51, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

cheers
Thanks so much for beefing up my first wiki page! I was so psyched to visit it today and see it a formidable size. I admit that it looks very little like my first shot but only for the better :). —Preceding unsigned comment added by DalekAGB (talk • contribs) 05:51, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

hi
This might be use to you. I taking break from this stress. Ani medjool (talk) User_talk:Ashley_kennedy3 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ani medjool (talk • contribs) 00:35, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

List of Portuguese grape varieties
I want to be able to sort on individual grapes per region also, i.e. if I sort on region I get most Douro in one section, but only when there is not any other grape before it, not sure how to do that, there are to many of them to put in individual columns ..... thinking of a solution. But nice table/list! Think the name could be improved also, it is much more than just a list of portuguese grape varieties. --Stefan talk 00:26, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, but I didn't want to expand the list to where every international grape variety was included since undoubtedly producers have started planting more. I wanted to focus mainly on the Portuguese varieties with only a few of the obscure other grapes that have prominence little elsewhere but Portugal. AgneCheese/Wine 19:00, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Vin Santo
What a useful article it suddenly became and what a huge difference from a few days ago. Great job. Just a little MOS question about the DOCs lists, is there a reason you used this dash-  format instead of the old bullets? Cheers, M URGH   disc.  01:50, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, unfortunately the very bureaucratic rules WP:DYK specifies that the 5x expansion count exclude any bulleted text. It also doesn't take into consideration that the article was 100% rewritten and still holds the old, unsourced and encyclopedically questionable material against the article. Considering it was entirely rewritten, I figure it would be a shame for it not to be featured solely because of the difference between a bullet point and a dash. I thought if anyone had any serious MOS objections, we could always change it after it the DYK. AgneCheese/Wine

Wine cat CfD
I agree, I did not try to point any blame towards you, just explain that Resistance is futile, when a drama like that happens, you must go otherways to make the change, that is why I'm slowly trying to clean up the categories, what a mess!!! I was trying to stayaway from the more contraversial topics, but didn't quite make it. :-) --Stefan talk 00:56, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I understand but I am still skeptical about whether or not editors like Occuli will allow the wine project to continue cleaning up the mess. He seems to place more weight on his own opinion on categorization over his lack of knowledge on the subject. Despite having his errors in distinguishing what an article is about being repeatedly shown to him (and I see you are trying yourself. Good luck!), he still brazenly goes about categorizing wine articles as he wills. While I don't doubt his good faith or enthusiasm for an underappreciated area of wiki-gnometry, it is pretty clear that his edits involving wine categories only hurt the encyclopedia and he doesn't seem to want to accept advice or knowledge on how to improve his wine categorization. I just don't see a scenario where he accepts our good faith attempts at cleaning up the wine categories mess by removing inappropriate categorization. As his past wine cat edits show, he seems committed to re-adding these inappropriate cats and keeping them from being emptied and deleted. He simply believes he knows better and I doubt we will make any progress unless the CfD strongly supports a merger results. AgneCheese/Wine 04:45, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * We will have to see. --Stefan talk 12:29, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

I would like to revert
your edit from March 2007. I checked The oxford companion and it states very much as the revision that you redirected away. Do you mind if I revert? If so why? There is ageneral redirect mess there now, will fix a bit ... --Stefan talk 13:38, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * There is no need for a perma-stub. If you would like to create at least a start class article with referencing, feel free. At least then there would be something of benefit to the readers. A plain revert would offer the reader no more informational and context than the current redirect article. AgneCheese/Wine 21:17, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Spanish Starts
Hi, I see you've upgraded some Spanish stubs to starts. Well, I defer to your greater experience :) I just set all the Spanish DOs and VdlTs to 'Stub' by default, as I'm not too clear on the boundary between one and the other :) --BodegasAmbite (talk) 14:59, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem. The distinctions between stubs/starts and are not always the most clear and was altered a little with the introduction of the "C class" level. My personal rule of thumb is that a combination of having a least 1 reference, a sub-section (such as "Grape varieties") and an image bumps a stub just a little bit over the line into start class. While an article with no refs, no sub-sections and no images would clearly still be a stub. It's not always black and white and you're always free to to disagree and bump something back down if you like. AgneCheese/Wine 20:38, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi
Hi Agne, I want to thank you for created Quinta classification of Port vineyards in the Douro, it's bad-ass. Also I was planning (at some point) to buckle down and create and category for Port Shippers/Houses and all of the top houses. I also noticed you have some connection to Missouri, are you into Missouri wine at all? Thats another area that needs lots of expansion that I've been considering tackling. Anyways, I saw our common interest and if I can ever help you out on either of those topics let me know. Happy editing! Grey Wanderer (talk) 19:32, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Howdy :) Yes I am a Missouri girl, born and raise on Missouri wine. I normally go back at least once a year, which almost always includes an excursion into wine country. While I'm not the biggest Norton (grape) fan, I still like to keep tabs on the wine industry of my homestate. You are right in that subject does need some expansion but, admittedly, so does a lot of areas of wine and Missouri wine is lower on the totem poll of priorities. Thank you for the kind words. It would be great to get some articles on Port shippers. That is also an area that is sorely lacking in coverage. AgneCheese/Wine 19:39, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Dimiat
Hello, and thanks a lot for expanding Dimiat! I've approved the article at DYK, but I have a query about the transliteration of the name. The official Bulgarian romanization system transliterates the Cyrillic letter “я” as ya in this case. ia and ja are both widely used but unofficial variants. As both names seem to be pretty much equally popular in English (compare this to this), I'd suggest that we stick to the official transliteration. Or do specialized viticulture sources refer to the grape variety overwhelmingly as Dimiat? Best, Todor→Bozhinov 20:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * All my English language sources use Dimiat with only the Oxford Companion making a point of noting that it is sometimes spelled Dymiat. Admittedly, I've only ever seen one bottle of Dimiat wine that been exported into the US (the Slavyantsi Chardonnay-Dimiat-Muscat blend from Bulgaria) and it uses the spelling Dimiat on the label. As far as I can tell it appears to be the dominant English spelling in wine circles. But if you have any reliable sources talking about the transliteration, we should definitely include them in the article. AgneCheese/Wine 20:27, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I usually prefer to use either the official romanization system all the way, but in that case I don't mind retaining the name as Dimiat. That specialized sources refer to the grape variety as Dimiat seems more important. I'll add an "also transliterated as Dimyat or Dimjat" thing just after the name in Cyrillic :) Best, Todor→Bozhinov 09:48, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I am having a glass today for the occasion
Thanks for your note on Talk:Martin Bucer. You may or may not remember me, but we crossed paths when I used to work on GAs and the criteria. You also helped out in reviewing the article that was my first FA. Since then I worked on five biographies of Reformation characters (Calvinist, Anglican, and Lutheran). Bucer's was the toughest one, but his was the most interesting! By the way, I am partial to Gevrey-Chambertin although I drink other Burgundies as well as Bordeaux regularly. --RelHistBuff (talk) 12:37, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I've seem some of your work. Very impressive. Admittedly I don't spend much time on Lutheran or Christian history anymore. Since my divorce, to a Lutheran minister no less, I've diverted my attentions to the wine world. But it is still enjoyable to see Reformation topics on the Main Page and it even more enjoyable when they are so well written! AgneCheese/Wine 01:30, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Collioure
I've seen your map File:Collioure AOC within Banyuls.jpg and it has surprised me. The wine region of AOC Collioure is not only the commune of Collioure, but it overlaps completely with AOC Banyuls region. The four communes (Collioure, Banyuls, Cerbère and Port-Vendres) can produce AOC Collioure wines (vins secs) or AOC Banyuls wines (vins doux naturelles), as well as AOC Banyuls Grand Cru. If you understand French you can check it at the web site of Vins du Rousillon or the INAO. --Vriullop (talk) 13:54, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, the English language sources seemed to indicate that it was just limited to the Collioure region. I'll look into it further. AgneCheese/Wine 15:17, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Aleatico
Hello! Your submission of Aleatico at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Materialscientist (talk) 09:13, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of List of celebrities who own wineries and vineyards
I have nominated List of celebrities who own wineries and vineyards, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/List of celebrities who own wineries and vineyards. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Viridae Talk 00:54, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I am by no means inclusionist, but this does have to be one of the silliest AfDs I've seen in a long time. (Probably since Champagne in popular culture was put for AfD). Hopefully this will be snowball keep soon just as the Champagne in popular culture article was. Clearly a notable, encyclopedic topic that is thoroughly researched to reliable sources. AgneCheese/Wine 01:24, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:Yellow Tail wine assortment.jpg
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Conflicted licensing on image File:Yellow Tail wine assortment.jpg
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A Flickr photographer demanding money
See commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Merlot grapes.jpg. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 09:26, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Oz and Hugh Drink to Christmas DYK
Nice expansion, and a marvellous hook ;^) M URGH   disc.  00:05, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. When I read your initial write up on it, I thought it was too good to pass up. Tis a shame we didn't get it up in time to be featured during the Christmas holiday. Sadly BBC America doesn't air a lot of these good wine shows so your article was the first I heard of it. AgneCheese/Wine 00:08, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It wasn't your "wine programme" at its most raffined. As I remember U.S. TV, I have difficulty imagining something like that shown (non-cable) 10-15 years ago, but now I am clueless. I've never seen Oz Clarke that liquored before. M URGH   disc.  00:38, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * LOL! I'm sure that was quite a sight! AgneCheese/Wine 00:41, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Plagiarism / duplication
Re your edit summary from the Revision history of Cava ("rv Again duplication plus this is PLAGARISM of the content I wrote on the sparkling wine article"): Using material from one Wikipedia article in another is not considered plagiarism and is OK as long as there is attribution of the source article in the edit summary. See WP:PLAGIARISM for more info.

Re your worries of duplication: What drew me to this area to begin with is the duplication of material in Catalan wine: Cava and Sparkling wine: Cava. Maybe the truncation of these two sections and the restoration of the cava article (as is the case with Champagne (wine)) is the best solution. —  AjaxSmack   02:26, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Charles Heidsieck
The article Charles Heidsieck, to which you seem to be the main contributor, is undergoing a review as part of the good article sweeps project. The article does not seem to meet current requirements for a good article. It has been put on hold for a week; if these issues are addressed satisfactorily within that period the article will be kept as a GA, otherwise it will be delisted. Lampman (talk) 12:08, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Considering that the GA tag has little value outside Wikipedia, I have no problem with its removal. AgneCheese/Wine 17:39, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

a little DYKhelp
I wondered and hoped, maybe you could peek at this last one I wrote, Azienda Agricola Testamatta and see if there is an obvious DYK route to take? There is something of a "wine porn"-angle available, which popular appeal you recently demonstrated, but with language barriers the sourcing might be too weak. If you have a mo'. M URGH  disc.  01:58, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Heh, the "wine porn" angle is interesting. I don't think the referencing is weak at all, even with using google translate you can see enough in the text to determine that the US did have issues with the wine label's sexual imagery. DYK also has a special "AGF tick" for hooks that use predominately book/offline or foreign language sources. This should have no problem getting approved. I would suggest a hook somewhere along the line of "... that the Italian producer Azienda Agricola Testamatta once had a wine banned in the U.S. because of its label's suggestive imagery that included the Firenze slang term for fellatio?" AgneCheese/Wine 02:23, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool. That's juicy. I like it. M URGH   disc.  02:30, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Premox
Do you have a moment to look at Premature oxidation and maybe check if you are compelled to lay your hands on it? It feels like it could use your touch, and I'm a little disappointed with my sources that aren't taking me much further. M URGH  disc.  22:48, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure. I'm finishing up with all the DABing and redirects for Climate categorizations in viticulture but I'll take a look. Bout time we have a premox article. I've thought about writing it every time I have a white Burg, just never got around to it. Thanks for getting this going! AgneCheese/Wine 22:50, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, you're right about the difficulties in finding reliable sources that cover more ground. There is precious little covered in wine books and most of the online sources are highly colored with a lot of subjective, POV. So far I haven't found much more beyond what you have included in the article. As for potential DYK hooks, I think a straight forward definition is worthwhile. DYK "... that premature oxidation is a flaw that occurs when usually ageworthy wines, such as white Burgundy, are found to be prematurely oxidised and undrinkable for reasons not yet fully understood?" AgneCheese/Wine 23:50, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I was hoping you had access to more concrete print RS at your fingertips. That's a good straightforward hook, thanks. I'll snip that. M URGH   disc.  00:17, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Wine clubs
Kudos--great work! Drmies (talk) 03:40, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh there is still tons of work to do. I just used a heavy hand in getting rid of the crap. The hard part now is finding good refs to expand it. I've added it to my list of "To-dos" but I want to finish some current projects (like Barossa Valley (wine) ) before I really tackle this one. AgneCheese/Wine 03:42, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Costières de Nîmes AOC
Hi Agne, I'm just  curious to  know why  you substituted 'Rhône wine' for 'List of Vins de Primeur' in Costières de Nîmes AOC and why Costières de Nîmes AOC is featured on  the List of vins de primeur. AKAIK CdN does not produce any  primeurs. I'm also wondering why you  consider the inclusion  of the Wine and Wine by country  navbars to  be 'template overkill'. --Kudpung (talk) 18:56, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Lots of questions :) 1.) Rhone wine was already linked in the article therefore it doesn't need to be repeated in the See also section which is generally for related articles that are not elsewise linked in the article. 2.) The vin de primeurs list used Sotheby pg 56 as reference (as noted in the article) which included the Costières de Nîmes AOC as permitting for whites and rose only. 3.) Right now the use of navbars on wine articles is very schizophrenic and WP:WINE hasn't yet came up with a coherent policy on their usage. According to the only policy that really deals with the issue, nav bars shouldn't be plastered just willy nilly or used in replacement/redundancy with categories. There needs to be some cohesion and order to their use with the most obvious use being for the "big picture" articles rather than try to plaster them on every single wine article. Hope that helps. AgneCheese/Wine 22:56, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your rapid reply. Other than the source you cited, there are no further references anywhere to  CdN vins primeurs, neither on the INAO, nor in the marketiing  boards or syndicat  sites. Wine guides as we have proven before, can be notoriously innacurate. I will  contact  the chairman of CdN again  and get  a confirmation from  him that  we can  publish on the talk  page.

Thanks.--Kudpung (talk) 23:45, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Nice work on the Fonseca article
Looks great! Thanks, it was an interesting read for me, and a nice addition of substance to my first wikipedia article.

cheers

Rob —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robzr (talk • contribs) 22:52, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Alternative wine closures, Cork taint, Cork material
Hello, I noticed that you undid my edits on Alternative wine closures, Cork taint and Cork material last week with an "advertising" description. I am a student working on a project involving new media, and I've been studying alternative wine corks for the past few months. Based on what I've read in several industry magazines and other sources, Nomacorc is a major player in the industry and underrepresented on Wikipedia. Can you give me some suggestions on how to alter my edits so they are suitable for Wikipedia? I have seen other companies like Stelvin on several Wikipedia pages, so I don't see why the same can't be done for Nomacorc. Thanks, PseudoCinderella 12:07, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Articles like Alternative wine closures, Cork taint and Cork material are general purpose encyclopedia articles and should not include advertizing materials about individual companies. Readers coming to an encyclopedia to understand things like cork taint are not really interested in what company makes a certain product and knowing that information does nothing further their knowledge on the subject of cork taint or other type of wine closures. We have separate articles about notable businesses so if you feel that Nomacorc would pass our notability guideline for business, I suggest that you create an article at Nomacorc. Afterwards I would recommend posting on the talk page of articles like Talk:Alternative wine closures for suggestions of how to include WP:NPOV and non-advert sounding language that would be relevant to an encyclopedia article. It is easier to include topics on notable businesses when there is a neutral article already created that could be linked to. AgneCheese/Wine 21:10, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your response. I am still learning my way around Wikipedia, so I appreciate your feedback. I will take this into consideration for my future Wikipedia doings. PseudoCinderella 9:54, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Barnstar

 * Thank you! :) AgneCheese/Wine 00:53, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:Beer Rebate.jpg
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File:Cingular rebate card.jpg listed for deletion
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Possibly unfree File:Reserva Spanish wine label.jpg
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Chapoutier - DYK?
Hi Agne,

Was wondering if you'd be willing to have a look at the Chapoutier article that Tomas wrote and maybe fashion a DYK hook for it please to get some attention from the main page as I know you are very good at coming up with hooks. I let him know I was asking you. Camw (talk) 00:08, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure. I'll see if I can get to it later today. AgneCheese/Wine 14:09, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Camw (talk) 21:22, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

File:Braile label.jpg
I've re-labeled this image as missing a non-free rationale, and once again removed it from Template talk:Did you know. The file is labeled as a non-free product cover. You may feel this is inappropriate, but myself and another editor feel it is. If you wish to debate this, you may start a discussion at the image's talk page, and alert WP:NFCR. Please do not just re-license the image as this would be inappropriate. While the licensing remains as it is, it can not appear on Template talk:Did you know, and it will need to have a rationale to remain here on Wikipedia. Do not remove the no rationale warning tag without supplying a rationale. Please see WP:FURG for guidance. Thank you, --Hammersoft (talk) 16:38, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * It is an incorrect application of NFCR as the image focuses on the braile writing and to the best of my knowledge, braile is not copyrightable. It is a shame that a faulty application of NFCR is going to derail a DYK nom. AgneCheese/Wine 05:12, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The label is copyrightable. That's the point. Not the braille. --Hammersoft (talk) 15:58, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Conflicted licensing on image File:Australian Chardonnay Semillon blend in a can.jpg
The above noted image or media file appears to have conflicted licensing. As an image cannot be both 'free' and 'unfree', a check of the exact status of this media/image concerned is advised.Sfan00 IMG (talk) 19:30, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Crete
Hello my favourite wiki wino!! I've just been browsing and cleaning up some articles on Crete and have come across some articles like Vathypetro. I think you'd be interested in researching and writing about some of the sites and regions. They reportedly have some of the oldest wine presses in the world, Minoan. Minoan civilizations fascinate me, I don't know about you. I thought you might be interested in how this ancient production hs evolved on Crete.. Dr. Blofeld       White cat 00:43, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, that is interesting. I'll need to do some real digging for reliable sources. I wonder if I can scrap together enough sources to do a Minoans and wine article ala Ancient Greece and wine and Phoenicians and wine. Yikes the Cretan wine article is tiny. That could use some love and attention too. Thanks for the tip! AgneCheese/Wine 19:21, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Thackrey kink
Hi Agne. If you have a moment I was hoping you could provide a second opinion. I had just finished a first draft of Sean Thackrey and had barely placed it on DYK, before suddenly appeared in and made some quite bold edits, in some cases contradicting the sources, some places leaving wrong attribution spot cites. What stops me from normal revert actions is that there appears to be some insight behind the edits, even if WP:A, WP:V, WP:RS and WP:OR is broadhand *dismissed*. I left 75.61.128.252 a note trying to explain my dilemma, but I just wanted to ask you. Do you think I should leave it to rest for a while or will the current state be a problem when DYKfolk come to check it out? Cheers, M URGH   disc.  23:44, 24 March 2010 (UTC) User:75.61.128.252 has since introduced himself as Sean Thackrey and he has corrected what are mistakes in the source articles. Do you have experience from something similar? M URGH  disc.  01:11, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, well if he is telling the truth then he needs to be aware of WP:COI while we, of course, need to be mindful of WP:BLP. Looking at the edits, it doesn't appear that he "corrected" anything that was defamatory or unduly negative so I think we're fine in the WP:BLP arena. Rather, it just looks like he added some superfluous details and some POV puffery. I'm going to do some bold edits myself and cut some of the puffery out. Unfortunately, it may take some of your material out as well but we need to minimize the temptation for Thackery to use the article as a promotional vehicle. AgneCheese/Wine 02:04, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

April 2010 GAN backlog elimination drive
–MuZemike delivered by MuZebot 17:14, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Corsica
Hello Agne, over the last couple of days I've been slowly plowing through the bunch French AOC/subregion wine articles added by a couple of users from mid-March by translating (or in some cases "translating") various articles from frwiki. They take some considerable copyediting and sometimes de-POV:ing. In the process I encountered the article Vin de Corse, which seems to be a translation of fr:Vignoble de Corse, which in turn is properly interwiki-linked to Corsica wine. Since you're largely responsible for the latter article, could you perhaps take a look at "Vin de Corse" and see if it contains anything worth merging into Corsica wine? After that I assume it's best just to redirect it. I must say that I really can't understand why someone translates an article under a distinctly non-English name when there already was an article. If there hadn't been an interwiki link from the French article I could perhaps have understood how it could happen by mistake, but now...?! Tomas e (talk) 21:19, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, well the most interesting items that could possibly go into the Corsica wine article (like some of the history details) are unfortunately unsourced and, thus, wouldn't be appropriate to merge. The few items that have a reliable source citation are hectares/production details which the article could use but I've never been a big fan of adding since these numbers often change every couple years of so. I, honestly, think we could just do a straight redirect. I'm not sure if anything is really worth salvaging. AgneCheese/Wine 18:12, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, no objections from me if you just go ahead and redirect... :-) Tomas e (talk) 18:47, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Dom Pérignon (wine)
Not sure if you are still around as I note you haven't edited in a while. If you are still editing then I need some help over at the above article. After you redirected it, another editor came along with a substantial rewrite, which looks to be based mostly on the fr.wikipedia article - the problem is that it is largely unreferenced and full of unsourced trivia and opinion. Copyediting isn't really my area at all and each time I look at it I'm not at all sure where to start - I would appreciate it if you had the time to have a look and see what can be salvaged, if anything, as the current article isn't even close to the standards we have. Camw (talk) 08:29, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Agne seems indeed to have gone "AWOL" - I hope she's spending time drinking good wines instead of just writing about them. :-) I took a quick look at the article and reintroduced some old material and took out some of the most irrelevant parts. Unfortunately, quite a lot of articles on (French) wine on frwiki contains material which do not fully conform to typical enwiki standards when it comes to NPOV, tone and reliable references - such as flowery wine descriptions, unsubstantiated historial myths, (local patriotic) marketingspeak, vintage guide material, and various anecdotes and trivia. Tomas e (talk) 19:35, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm still floating around here but outside life has sharply limited my online time. I'll probably continue to be limited until the end of the month. As for the article, Tomas' edits have helped and it seems like it could stand on its own. We just need to keep an eye on the incessant trivia cruft that keeps wanting to pop in. AgneCheese/Wine 16:50, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Retired
The combative tones I was referring  to  were yours. Not to worry - whilst I  thought  my  extensive work on  Rhône wines over the years had been a positive contribution  to  the encyclopedia, in  spite of the encouragement  form such  editors as Tomas e, you  have convinced me otherwise. To avoid further confrontation, I  have retired from your wine project. --Kudpung (talk) 08:04, 3 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Well since there obviously wasn't any combative tones implied, perhaps a break would be worthwhile for you. I know, personally, that when I get hyper sensitive and start reading things into people's words that are not there some time away does me well. It always helps to put things back into perspective. Remember, we're all volunteers here and anything worth doing on the internet requires a thick skin since it is so easy to misread people's intentions and tone. If contributing to the project is not worth your time, then I wish you the very best. AgneCheese/Wine 03:55, 4 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I have had a very  thick  skin here for a very  long  time so  there is no  need to  patronise me me as if I  were a newbie. Perhaps you  could remind  yourself of the advice you  give to  others and moderate the tone of your own comments in  order to  avoid such  misinterpretation. Your extremely extensive and laudable contributions to  wine articles and the wine project might  not  have made you an expert in  all  aspects of building  this encyclopedia. Losing and or discouraging  contributors is something  we are all expected to  avoid. But  don't  worry, there are several  other areas where I  am  very  active and where my  contribs are appreciated.--Kudpung (talk) 00:21, 5 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I can't help if people read non-existent tone into my words. I never called you any names, disparaged your edits or whatever. I merely disagreed with your interpretation and application of guidelines. Nothing more, nothing less. Disagreeing with you is not combative and if you honestly believe that it is, perhaps your skin isn't as thick as you may believe. You shouldn't expect every editor to agree with everything you say or do.
 * Now beyond that, regarding your retirement and leaving the Wine Project. Perhaps you should take some time to cool off and reflect. One of the things you should reflect on is why are you letting any anonymous contributor on the internet dictate your editing experience here on Wikipedia? Why should you seek my praise and adulation or condoning of your edits? The very fact that you have taken the time and effort to repeatedly come to my talk page to note your leaving, hints that perhaps you are letting the external influences of what you perceive other editors to think of you hold too much sway. Again, we're all volunteers. Nothing that happens here really matters in the outside world. So don't take things here so seriously. If you feel like editing wine articles, go for it. If you don't, that's fine too. Don't let whatever tone you read into my words dictate where or what you edit. There really is nothing further we need to discuss. As I said above, whatever you decide, I wish you the very best. AgneCheese/Wine 00:40, 5 June 2010 (UTC)


 * You are actually  the last  person whom  I  would ask  for advice, praise, adulation or condoning of my edits ! Whatever gave you that  idea? - I've been watching your style of communication  for quite a while. See  my  previous post, please read it  properly this time,  and do try  to  drop  the patronising as previously  requested. You  may  have become one of the leading lights of Wiipedia Wine of late, but  that does not grant  you  leave to behave like a school  marm.  Perhaps you  are the one that  needs to take time off to cool  off rather than  driving  editors away with  your remarks. Good luck with  recruiting  some replacements.--Kudpung (talk) 14:36, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * *Sigh* Again, the fact that you feel compelled to repeatedly come back to my talk page to engage me as well as the fact that you are willing to leave the wine project over me merely disagreeing with you speaks volumes. You are the first editor in 5 years who has came to my talk page to make a "show" out of me supposedly driving them away with my remarks (which again included no disparaging remarks about your edits or person, no name calling, only disagreement-and mild disagreement at that) There is obviously something you want me to say or some response you desire to provoke but, whatever it is, let it go. Whatever it is, in the big scheme of things matters little and (as I said before) should not influence what kind of pages you do or do not edit. Thanks for your good wishes on recruiting but that is not a concern I have since we don't actively recruit people for the project and there is no need to "replace" anyone. It is a volunteer project and people come and go as they wish and they edit what they wish. That is just the way that Wikipedia rolls. There is nothing to stress out about and, again, there is no reason to let my words hold much influence on where or what you edit here. AgneCheese/Wine 15:51, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Frankly, I just  can't  see the point  in  being  barsch  with  people on  a project  such  as the Wikipedia. The way the Wikipedia rolls is that  no  editor, not  even a self-appointed wine specialist,  should adopt patronising  tones, treat everyone else as a raw beginner, and end up  driving  people away. There is nothing  I want  to  provoke, other than  that  you  might  adopt a more friendly  and encouraging  tone in  your future communications with  other editors, and help make the Wikipedia a happier and more worthwhile place for us to  devote our voluntary, anonymous energies into.--Kudpung (talk) 08:34, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Again, I can not help what non-existent tones people read into my comments. Though I have to say that reading your comments on this talk page and my supposedly "combative" comment on Talk:Côte-Rôtie_AOC that starts this all, provides very interesting contrast.
 * Under the simple edit summary of "not overlinking" I stated that "I fail to see how tannin, vintage, oak (wine) and winemaking qualify as "irrelevant" to the article. Do you think most English reading really know all the information and details that are in the oak (wine) article?" in response to you posting guidelines from WP:OVERLINK. And that was it-no name calling, no disparaging comment about your edits or person, but rather a simple disagreement about how you are interpreting a particular guideline. And it was mild disagreement at that (Note the difference between saying I fail to see... versus Well you are flat out wrong). I stated that I didn't your view and asked you to clarify it further and explain how these pages applied so that maybe we could see what you see.
 * But apparently within those simple words of that very mild disagreement, you read a combative tone and that my mere disagreement with you was worth you self-banishing yourself from editing wine articles. Apparently those "combative" words which included no name calling or disparaging comments was worth you coming to my talk page to make a show out of your leaving and call me names ("behave like a school marm") and make disparaging comments about my person and edits ("driving editors away with your remarks, a self-appointed wine specialist, treat everyone else as a raw beginner, patronizing tones etc")

Now if my mild disagreement on the Côte-Rôtie page was laced with "combative tones", I hate to think what you would describe of my tone if I've said some of the things you have said on my talk page! AgneCheese/Wine 19:14, 12 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Anyone with a native level  of English  will  recognise the patronising  tone you  use in  all your compmunications with  me. To use condescending  and/or patronising  terms is rude, whether there is name-calling  or not. I  have made no  personal  attacks at  your person, but in  the interests of creating  a more friendly  environment here, I  have made some metaphorical comparisons regarding  the manner in which  your  online use of English  comes across. It  may  be a kind  of culture shock  on  my  part, because as a professional  linguist  I am  well  aware that  in  different parts of the native English  speaking  world, people may  have different  ways of expressing  themselves. To my  British  ears (or eyes) however, you  comments came across (and not  for the first  time) as unnecessarily  harsh, and your being  a very  busy  Wiki  editor is no  excuse for telling  people to be more thick skinned to accomodate your paucity of word, or not  taking  the time to  use a few more words to  be more friendly  and encouraging.  I  will  accept that  some forms of expression tolerated in  some regions, may easily  be misread in  others,  so I don't  want  to  prolong  this discussion, and I don't  want to stress  your Wiki experience.   I  can't  see any personal attacks in  simply  pointing  out the facts as I  see them. I don't  retire from what  I  thought  were important  contributions to Rhône on  a whim. There a re a couple of other areas of expertise where I contribute to  this encyclopedia without  other editors treating me patronisingly  like a newbie (and that's what  this is all  about) . So here is what  I  said again (most  other readers see it as a peace offering), - we both, I'm sure, are not  common  squabblers or page vandals and we have better things to  do than argue.' 'Frankly, I  just  can't  see the point  in  being  barsch  with  people on  a project  such  as the Wikipedia. The way the Wikipedia rolls is that  no  editor, not  even a self-appointed wine specialist,  should adopt patronising  tones, treat everyone else as a raw beginner, and end up  driving  people away. There is nothing  I want  to  provoke, other than  that  you  might  adopt a more friendly  and encouraging  tone in  your future communications with  other editors, and help make the Wikipedia a happier and more worthwhile place for us to  devote our voluntary, anonymous energies into.'' --Kudpung (talk) 05:15, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting that several 'native level' English speakers (albeit US not British) that I've showed this drama too are at a lost for words trying to comprehend what type of non-existent tone you must be reading into text-based words. Interesting that you accused another native English speaker, Stefan, of edit warring when he was doing none of the type. I should have taken that as a clue that you tend to read more into text then what is plainly there. It is further interesting that in 5+ years of Wiki involvement with a variety of editors, including British, that you are the first to come to my talk page to make a show out of me driving you away with my "combative" and "patronizing" tone. As I said before, if I repeated even a fraction of the comments that you have made here, then maybe I could see your point in calling me combative. But I have yet to stoop down to your level and I have no plans to do so in the future. Once again, I wish you the best in whatever Wiki endeavors you do-whether that includes editing wine related articles or not. AgneCheese/Wine 16:03, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:California Gamay.jpg
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Fair use rationale for File:Chandon California Brut sparkling wine.JPG
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DYK for André Jullien
 — Rlevse • Talk  • 18:03, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Glera (grape)
Hello! Your submission of Glera (grape) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Thelmadatter (talk) 16:28, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Côte de Nuits
 — Rlevse • Talk  • 18:03, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

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DYK for Glera (grape)
 — Rlevse • Talk  • 00:02, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:Brotherhood up close.JPG
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Possibly unfree File:Chandon California Brut sparkling wine.JPG
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Cardinals-Cubs Rivalry
Hi there. Read how you have been active in that article. I don't know much about the rivalry, but it would be cool to break it up into different eras. The Yankees-Red Sox rivalry is organized well I feel...with the point by point breakdown within eras. For example, a point that could be added was how in 1964 Lou Brock went from the Cubs to the Cards. 161.185.151.150 (talk) 19:34, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

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Fair use rationale for File:Cool papa bell statue.JPG
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Fair use rationale for File:Cooper plaque.JPG
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DYK issue
There's an issue with your "Hunter Valley wine" submission at DYK. Gatoclass (talk) 13:28, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I didn't submit it for DYK cause I probably wasn't going to have time to get it up to snuff. I'll see if I can take a look. AgneCheese/Wine 23:37, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * My fault, I thought it was good enough to get some attention, but I made things worse, sorry. Camw (talk) 14:38, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:Granite Curling Wall of Champions.JPG
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