User talk:Ashley kennedy3

Palestine remembered map university of Florida Smathers Library 1:100,000 Second edition of new series printed 1941 The Green Line Palestine Expedition Fund 1880s mapping Australian Digital library

Blocked
Thanks Huldra...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 20:01, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

PS...If you need book references or coords leave a note here or on your talk pages....because I have plenty of time for reading...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 20:10, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * ok, I will. But Ashley dear; when will you learn that to edit in the I/P area on WP means that you MUST be able to wade through utter garbage without getting upset...or, if that is not possible, then at least not let "some" people see that you care....´cause then they go for the jugular. That´s the rules of the game (and game it is). I certainly hope to see you around before a year is gone...I wish you would keep to the pre-1948 stuff for a while: it is painfully lacking, and, unlike the newer stuff, it actually  demands that you read books (-->iow: most POV-pushers won´t bother:) ). I´m reading  Thomas Philipp: "Acre, The rise and fall of a Palestinian city. 1730-1830" at the moment,  Extremely interesting! And I have just ordered Cohen, Amnon: "Population & Revenue in the Towns of Palestine in the Sixteenth Century" and Andrew Petersen "The Towns of Palestine Under Muslim Rule: Ad 600-1600". The history-section of the older major towns in Palestine/Israel are hopeless: we really should spend more time fixing that.... And I will, eventually,   Huldra (talk) 20:38, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I too have come across said book in my reading, Good for Napoleon, British gaining interest in Palestine....as you say interesting book...I keep forgetting that wiki consensus does not mean the consensus of what Historians have established as fact...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 07:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

FYI
I've significantly expanded an article you created, Eyal Eisenberg, and nominated it for a DYK. Canadian Monkey (talk) 22:07, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't understand how some pro-Israeli nana brain rubbed a red link to Eisenberg out saying that Eisenberg wasn't important enough for his own article. It was like wow somebody obviously knows very little about the I/P conflict.....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 04:10, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Problem about the general pro-Israeli racist tendencies in calling all non-Jews from Palestine Arabs...
As the Ottomans called the place Palestine (Arz-i Filistin) based on the revolt being carried out by the people of the area with a distinct regional quality, it does seem strange that Jac et al insist on the term Arab being applied.

Arz-i Filistin

Samih K. Farsoun, Christina E. Zacharia (1997) Palestine and the Palestinians Westview Press, ISBN 0813303400 p 55 (sub district) Jerusalem into an independent unit directly linked to Istanbul and referred to the historic territory (including the northern districts of Nablus, ‘Akka, and Galilee) as Arz-i Filistin reflected Palestine’s emergence as a single entity.

Various authors have described how Ottoman administrate boundaries, and European ambitions and inspirations in Palestine helped to shape the local inhabitants’ conception of the country. From 1874 onwards, the sanjaq of Jerusalem, including the districts of Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Hebron, Beersheeba, Gaza and Jaffa, was administered independently from any other Ottoman province, and as such was under the direct authority of Istanbul. In earlier times Jerusalem had briefly been the capital of a larger province with the name “Filistin,” which encompassed all of what is now Palestine, including Nablus, Haifa and the Galilee. James P. Jankowski, I. Gershoni (1997) Rethinking nationalism in the Arab Middle East Columbia University Press, ISBN 0231106955 p 174

On Najib ‘Azuri writing on the need to expand the sanjak of Jerusalem and raising it to a Vilayet; He had been sentenced to death for treason in absentia after his flight to France, where in 1905 he wrote the prophetic book reveil de la Nation Arabe, which predicted a momentous conflict between Zionism and Arab nationalism. His opposition to Zionism was undoubtedly one of the bases for his argument that Palestine should be a separate province, but it was clearly predicated on the assumption that there was such a thing as a “Land of Palestine”, an idea that must have been shared by readers of Sabah and Thamarat al-Funun.

James P. Jankowski, I. Gershoni (1997) Rethinking nationalism in the Arab Middle East Columbia University Press, ISBN 0231106955 p 174

Arz-i Filistin •	During the 19th century, the "Ottoman Government employed the term Arz-i Filistin (the 'Land of Palestine') in official correspondence, meaning for all intents and purposes the area to the west of the River Jordan which became 'Palestine' under the British in 1922". Neville J. Mandel (1976) The Arabs and Zionism Before World War I University of California Press, ISBN 0520024664 p xx •	Amongst the educated Arab public, Filastin was a common concept, referring either to the whole of Palestine or to the Jerusalem sanjaq alone, or just to the area around Ramle, referring to fatwas by two Hanafite Syrian jurists. Porath, Yehoshua, (1974) "The Emergence of the Palestinian-Arab National Movement 1918-1929", London, ISBN 0714629391 pp. 8-9
 * Quite right, obvious to the well-read, but technically you've just shot your erudition in the foot by needlessly throwing around adjectives, and singling out a person.I don't know why you feel it necessary to ruin your corrections like this, since no one will cite the sources and many will jump at this to take you to Arbitration.
 * What Jaakobou's personal views in real life may be, or yours or mine, are immaterial to what interests the encyclopedia, except when they intrude in a provocative way to disturb the equanimity of composition.
 * In this particular case, he, like many, is following a cliché in a vein of Zionist polemical literature which aimed to deny a regional or subregional identity to the inchoate Palestinians in order, precisely at the same time, to justify Zionist claims to a peculiar ethnic Jewish attachment to the land. One had to play down any evidence for a peculiar national identity in Palestinians, because its existence would only undermine the claim that this was an empty land, with scattered groups not particularly attached to anywhere, who could be shifted out, or shunted aside for a nation, the Jewish people in diaspora, who had prior claims to it. The emphasis on the residents as Arabs (which the majority of Palestinians were not) made their identity so generic, their real roots could be implied as lying elsewhere. So, you should have focused on the bias, not the person prey to its clichés. I suggest you strike 'racist'. And return to mulling the point arbitrators want clarified. You're becoming one of the reasons why I want out: one cannot find enough people willing to forego, as I forgo, their intense convictions (mine are very close to Arnold Toynbee's, who on this was more radical than either of us, but better informed than both) and their personal intuitions on the meta-picture, in order to fix this shambles.Nishidani (talk) 06:44, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Because it was Jaakobou who insisted on calling all non-Jews from Palestine Arabs and insisted on changing the title of an article to follow his views...But have now changed the title from particular to generic...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 07:05, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * As a general principle in life, it's useful to think of ourselves as a grab-bag of clichés, poured into our ears from cradletime onwards, apart from the sweet voices. Poets don't speak or think like us because their inner lives are spent capturing the sweet voices, even when they do so to address the rough, and even violent clichés. So, we hoi polloi, go round, learning, we think as often as not, that we are expressing 'our selves' when we are only sounding boards of the dissonant noises from the wide beyond of time, our childhood's and that of our ancestors and tradition. If chance encounters, usually people of weird nature or accrued and acquired discernment, but books also, come our way and begin to whisper in our ears an antiphony, then we begin to play off the intelligent voice they provide us with against the raspy vernacular of prejudice that is otherwise our deepest selfhood. The prophets and shamans do this, as do their modern avatars, the thinkers, psychoanalysts and critics. They know that they are not remonstrating with individuals, but with people under the collective spell of clichés which they confuse with their personal identity, when these assumptions, clichés and opinions are merely the jerry-rigged scaffolding of an impersonal, collective mode of thought(lessness)around what is an inner void lacking all individuality.
 * Return to what I said. If you meet prejudice, (in others as in yourself) think of its content as impersonal, as some semi-individuated echo of some wider resonance, and vent your criticism against the principle it embodies, not the person who embodies it. Jaakobou or anyone else is not the problem: the pseudo-ideas that invest us are the problem. To do this is not only a matter of hewing to the requisite courtesies, but of stepping outside an area of confusion. Most people who are right in one context, since they talk from the cutting edges of knowledge, look, as time moves, provincial and biased, because while they manage to rebut an age-old untruth, they themselves, as the ground of historical perceptions shifts, do so from a perspective that is itself in good part caught up in the trammels of unwitting belief. Nishidani (talk) 07:29, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I find it a bit of a nonsense to have to have a debate about a subject that a Lebanese writer, Najib ‘Azuri writing before 1905, didn't have to explain the concept to his readers in Sabah and Thamarat al-Funun. If the concept of Palestine as a distinct region was talked about prior to 1905 outside Palestine then that concept within Palestine was surely an entity way before that....That being the case why is this debate still ongoing over 100 years later on wiki?...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 07:56, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

The reaction of the Palestinian Arabs to modern political Zionism drew upon all these pre-existing elements: religious attachment to what both Muslim and Christians believed was a holy land, the conception of Palestine as an administrative entity, the fear of external encroachment, and local patriotism. Before going into details of this reaction, it is worth stressing that these elements of attachment to Palestine all antedate the encounter with Zionism. It is necessary to point this out because of the common assertion that Palestinian identity was no more than a reaction to Zionism...James P. Jankowski, I. Gershoni (1997) Rethinking nationalism in the Arab Middle East Columbia University Press, ISBN 0231106955 P 175


 * You know this area of the literature, not, apparently, the literature, on how a n(ational) identity is constructed. The discourse you are talking about is of an elite: nations are formed in the minds of elites, who engineer them, by indoctrination of a pot-pourri of regional, village, ethnic groups whose only attachment is to their livelihoods, their clans, their area. 'Against an enemy I am a Somali, against a Somali leader I defend my region, against my region's leader, I defend my clan leader, against my clan leader, I defend my family, against my family, I defend myself'.
 * But you still don't get the point. The people who oppose sensible edits represent a collectivist cliché, not their own personal view. A view is only personal if it shows traces of individual reflection, and most of these counter-edits are just the recycling of clichés in a tired, outworn literature. You are now focused on the literature, but you started this thread focusing on the person whose lack of knowledge disputed your edit. That is an error incompatible with wiki procedures. I know this place is often a lunatic asylum, but we need doctors to heal doctored documentation, not graduates who object to the patients, instead of seeing their views as a symptom of a general malaise, which should be the object of the physician's care.
 * You're an army man, with a military approach. Give me the coordinates, get me humint, I'm supplied with ammo (books). But the slightest glance at military history will tell you that a large number of battles and campaigns were futile in the first place. The whole tragic history of Palestine consists of leaders so blinded by an idea Zionism, they cannot see where their commitment, as the vision is executed and creates incrementally more problems that it solves, is leading them (an apocalypse or apartheid). Every sane person on earth knew that the Iraq invasion was sheer madness, driven by ignorant ideologues: the troops went in and shot anybody in their way. For them it was personal, but they were in the service of a mad idea they knew nothing about. If everyone had looked at the idea, instead of personalising this hysterically, there would never have been any war in the first place.Nishidani (talk) 08:32, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I note you've changed the header, and made a general point. The problem that drives both you and I up the wall is simply the use of outdated sources often of dubious provenance, in articles. Secondly, that there seems to be no guideline that, in obeisance to the encyclopedia's stated goal, privileges as a norm that where a conflict in sources exist, academic books are everywhere to be preferred to googled articles from POv sites, and where a conflict in sources exist, the modern cutting edge position should be accorded more weight than the older interpretations. If I am correct in this, then the non-provocative title would have read,'Problems in handling edits insisting that Palestinians are 'Arabs', where the best literature, as opposed to the older Zionist historiography, now accepts that Palestinians have acquired a distinct national identity.'


 * Historically the core population was not regarded as 'Arab'. 'Arab' in ethnographic literature from the 17th to early 20th century was a term used almost exclusively of the Bedouin component. etc.Nishidani (talk) 08:54, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Rather a long title that is in essence masking the racist nature of the older Zionist historiography in persistence of use of the term "Arab"...and basically terms Arab and Bedouin were indeed synonymous and have now been used as shorthand code for non-Bedouin to impart other meanings quite clearly intended in a racist manner...A method that has been used in many other racist endeavours...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 09:41, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Zionists only took over the ethnophobic clichés from European racists, most of them anti-Semitic. Though I admit racism is, effectively, part of the core problem (but not as you frame it), many Zionists were not racists, as you know. The problem was, they were so prepossessed of the violence they were fleeing, they didn't really think deeply (except for great Zionists like Judah Magnes and Nahum Goldmann etc.) of the problem their refuge into a new simulacrum of their ancient nation was set to create, i.e., that it was premised upon repossessing a land already deeply dwelt in by another people. The problem was not, as often in Europe, racial, it was, and will ever be, spatial and demographic. Even in the autobiographies of people like Moshe Dayan, who was an ultra-Zionist, a close impartial reading does not yield up the impression he was a racist. He was, despite his 'idea' (Zionism), deeply at home in the kind of land, culture and world of the people he was dispossessing, and this is not quite what you find in the classic racist, some of whom, here, at times go ballistic about 'Arabs'. This was true of many of the old Yishuv's rabbis as well.


 * Uri Avnery was a Zionist, as was Israel Shahak, or Zeev Sternhell even now. None of them had, or has, an ounce of racism in them. they way they thought or think is not represented by 95% of 'pro-Israeli' editors in the I/P area, but 'always distinguish'. A rabbi, with kippa, got into Gaza the other day, and danced with an imam, in the middle of a hustling crowd of Palestinians who crowded round to tell their stories, of whole families massacred. They'd been earlier to Sderot. Always look at the individual as complex, and fight the idea, not the person. I'm probably more of an extremist than you, since I am listed as a subversive, with a 5 year sentence hanging over my head for refusing, right at the beginning of my adult life, to even recognize a government's right to ask me to enlist in an army. My view on Zionism is that of Arnold Toynbee in the 12th vol. of his Study of History, which is unrelentingly negative. But that doesn't tempt me to edit in here against Zionists. It only pushes me to ignore them, and think of Palestinians, a people whom, as I said to Suicup, history (not only Zionism, since Arabs, European and Americans have major responsibilities for what happened) wiped its arse on. Nishidani (talk) 10:14, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree that many Zionists are not aware of the racism that is inherent in some of their arguments but it is there nonetheless...certainly the likes of Uri Avnery Ilan Pappe and Zeev Sternhell have turned away from using many of the set clichés usually found in Zionist arguments but unfortunately those racist clichés have become conspicuous all over wiki...The promulgation of those clichés and racial stereotypes should have been ditched long ago...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 10:33, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Many of the people in here have little knowledge of their country's history. They grew up, some as immigrants, in the 70s and 80s, and learnt to read everything in the light of bad reportage, total ignorance of the world beyond the Green line, and why Palestinian grievance against their country is as profoundly motivated as the old Zionists' grievance against the Christian world of Europe. They come, many with little knowledge of Jewish history or its extraordinary contribution to our common enlightenment, from Sephardi backgrounds still keen with resentment for Arab policy as it developed after 1948, or from Russia, where their links to Judaism were reduced to mere ethnic classification. The idea of being a 'Jew' they imbibed is highly politicized, Israelocentric, and influenced by the environment Likud introduced, a marginal extremism that, as in the US with the generation of morons who created the world's economic and geostrategic mess from the 80s onwards, managed to occupy the centre of discourse. It's like growing up in the US in a family where Limbaugh or Fox news is the major source for what a person comes to think is his personal opinion. It's extremely hard to talk to such people. They confuse their views with some national, patriotic vision of the real world, which happens to be, however an ideological straightjacket put on them as children. No sudden Arbcom dispensation is going to change this. The force of intelligent, stubborn editing to the best sources may, if it is shorn of temper, and polemics. It's a hard way to go, but that's the way it is, and if you want to do something about it, and eventually have your imput, as a serious editor with a secured reputation on restructuring, taken note of for revision, you'll just have to drop the inner irritation that shows in your outbursts. Most have learnt this, you just keep ignoring it (I understand why, but it's counter-productive).Nishidani (talk) 10:50, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

June 1. The undersigned ask for a review of AK's sanction

 * A rapid decision, on a small point on wiki law, was made, regarding a trivial and contested act, in which he was accused of drive-by editing. He has without calling for administrative review sat out twice the length of one sanction imposed, that by Sandstein. Those who think the quality of his work invaluable for the I/P project ask that the year-long sanction be reviewed and scaled back drastically as wholly disproportionate to the contested infraction. The undersigned confirm their faith in his bona fides, and their belief that the infraction was and remains questionable.


 * Nishidani (talk) 08:38, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Casual observer
By March 1949, a classified CIA report declared Palestine was a 'Long Range Disaster'. The Agency report read in part:"'The establishment of the State of Israel by force, with intimidation of the Arab governments by the US and USSR, with the cutting off of the British arms and ammunition (the Arabs only source of supply), with ample sources for Israel of munitions and finance, the Israeli battle victory is complete, but it has solved nothing.""If boundaries to an Israeli State, any boundaries, had been set and guaranteed by the Great Powers, peace might return to the area. On the contrary, we have actually a victorious state which is limited to no frontiers and which is determined that no narrow limits shall be set. The Near East is faced with the almost certain prospect of a profound and growing disturbance by Israel which may last for decades... ...Instead of restoring the boundaries of the province of Judea as they were in 70 A.D., the Israeli leaders now state freely though usually unofficially, their demand for an ever expanding empire. Their present possessions are regarded by them as only a beachead into the Arab and Muslim World – a large part of which they plan to exploit. They are not prepared to live off what the land will yield as the Arabs do... ...Alone among the Great Powers, Britain has been working on a plan to restore a balance between the forces in Palestine, but it already appears that this plan is doomed to fail. Zionist pressure in the USA, Anglophobia in Iraq and Egypt, and above all, Russia's determination to prolong chaos in the Near East and to complete the discrediting of British and American Diplomacy, combine to work against the policy of the British Government and its collaborators --King Abdulla of Trans-Jordan and the Prime Minister of Iraq, Nuri al Said.CIA Electronic Reading Room. Observations Concerning Palestine and the Arab Countries, created 3/8/1949, Document 911106-5 page 2,"

any help to you?

A J Balfour’s memorandum at the Paris peace conference 11 August 1919 "The contradiction between the letter of the covenant and the policy of the allies is even more flagrant in the case of the ‘Independent nation’ of Palestine than in the case of the ‘independent nation’ of Syria. For in Palestine we do not propose even to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country ... The four powers are committed to Zionism and Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long tradition, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder import than the desire and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land." Seamus Dunn, T. G. Fraser (1996) Europe and ethnicity: the First World War and contemporary ethnic conflict Routledge, ISBN 0415119960 Chapter 9 Middle east Partition and Reformation T G Fraser p 172

More full version of the Balfour memorandum in; Rashid Khalidi (2005) Resurrecting Empire: western footprints and America's perilous path in the Middle East Beacon Press, ISBN 0807002356 Chapter 4 The United States and Palestine p 198

DYK for Eyal Eisenberg

 * I didn't know, but now I do. CasualObserver&#39;48 (talk) 06:25, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Both Furfar and IDF T shirt are POV forks
Nableezy and Factsontheground Both Furfar and the IDF T-Shirt Affair are POV forks although I do not see YnHockey, Gilibrand or Wikifan12345 looking to delete Furfar.

They are both POV forks of:

Negative Images in the Palestinian Israeli conflict

The 2 political-nationalist communities have been in violent conflict for close to one century. The emotions and passions of the 2 groups run deep. Negative imagery has been used by both groups in attempts to dehumanise their rivals.

read up on:-

Daniel Bar-Tal, Yona Teichman (2005) Stereotypes and Prejudice in Conflict: Representations of Arabs in Israeli Jewish Society Cambridge University Press, ISBN 0521807972 p 121 Paul Martin Lester, Susan Dente Ross (2003) Images that injure: pictorial stereotypes in the media Greenwood Publishing Group, ISBN 027597846X p 60

Schools
Independent Textbooks teach Arab children to hate, say Israelis By Phil Reeves in Jerusalem Wednesday, 6 September 2000 "Yet for all their evasions and silences they do not teach hate." Robert I. Rotberg (2006) Israeli and Palestinian narratives of conflict: history's double helix Indiana University Press, ISBN 0253218578 p 16

Schools to teach history of Gaza settlements, from settlers' perspective By Or Kashti

Hate groups
California based Masada 2000 list of “JEWISH S.H.I.T. LIST (Self-Hating and/or Israel-Threatening)”

The use of crude Cartoons images in the Israeli Palestinian conflict
Guardian Cartoon symbols of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict Guardian Hate mail 19 January 2004

Farfur
Guardian Palestinian TV uses Mickey Mouse to promote resistance by Mark Oliver 9 may 2007

Dumb use of the word "Arab"
Going by the anti-Palestinian usage of Arab the California Gold Rush (1848–1855) should be renamed the 1848–1855 American gold rush

Conversely the 1834 Arab revolt in Palestine should be renamed as the Palestinian Arab revolt 1834; as Palestine was a sub-district of the vilayet of Syria in the same way that California is a sub-district of the USA. It is noted that it is more correct to call an American from California “a Californian” when an action or event only affects Californians and in the same way an event or action that only affects or is carried out in Palestine is a Palestinian event.

It would appear that the inappropriate use of the term Arab has become the trade mark of extremist POV propagandists.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 04:00, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

2 Places at once? I don't think so
Facebook link ISBN 0805071881

Tiamut's list of Birds of Palestine
3 Birds for Tiamut's list. [quote]JERUSALEM (Reuters) - It may not be kosher, but the Hoopoe was chosen Thursday as Israel's national bird. The Hoopoe, or "Duchifat" in Hebrew, is listed in the Old Testament as unclean and forbidden food for Jews. President Shimon Peres declared the pink, black and white-crested bird the winner of a competition timed to coincide with Israel's 60th anniversary. It beat out rivals such as the Yellow-vented Bulbul and the Palestine Sunbird. The Book of Leviticus groups the Hoopoe with birds such as the eagle, vulture and pelican that are "abhorrent, not to be eaten." Israel is a main crossroads for birds migrating between Europe and Africa. Some 155,000 Israelis cast ballots in the national bird vote. (Writing by Jeffrey Heller; Editing by Julian Rake and Ibon Villelabeitia)
 * Hoopoe (Upupa epops):

Israel names biblically banned Hoopoe national bird[/quote]

‘Unclean’ bird is nation’s favourite


 * Bulbul (Pycnonotus barbatus);

The bulbul, a festive songbird that is common in Wadi El Bazan, Wadi Al Qilt and Ein Qeenia,


 * Palestine sun bird (Nectarinia oseus and Cinnyris oseus family Nectariniidae):

a small black bird with glittering iridescent colors prevalent in desert areas,

Don’t Hijack the Birds of Palestine By Samah Jabr

[quote]The Birds in Palestine; The expected number of bird species in Palestine amount to more than 500. This is a very large and varied number compared with other countries, inspite of the limited total land area of Palestine.

Those are classified in 206 genera, belonging to 67 families and grouped in 21 orders.
 * Blue-Cheeked Bee-eater
 * White Breasted King Fisher
 * Greater Flamingo
 * House Bunting
 * Great Grey Shrike
 * Spanish Sparrow
 * Mourning Wheatear
 * Trumpeter Finch
 * Lesser Kestrel
 * Masked Shrike
 * Ortolan Bunting
 * Common Kestrel

Palestine wildlife society, Palestine wildlife society; Birds[/quote]

Jisr Jindas
Are you sure on the location of Jisr Jindas being on the Via Maris between Ramla and Lydda? Only I have two references to it being at the North entrance to Lydda at 31° 58’ 07.51’’ N 34° 54’ 00.78’’E.

The position matches the description and these photos.Creswell archives Ashmolean

Jisr Jindas Bayabars' Lion catching a mouse also seen on the lion gate Jerusalem Andrew Petersen (1996) Dictionary of Islamic architecture Publisher Routledge, ISBN 0415060842 p 231

Palestine Exploration Fund. Survey of Jisr Jindas was carried out in 1937 by P.L.O. Guy Director of the British School of Archaeology in Jerusalem. His field notes, photographs and plans are held in the PEF’s archives and await future reassessment.

Lt. Col. Philip Langstaffe Ord Guy, 1885-1952

[quote]From Ramlah the route continued to Ludd (Lydda) and over a bridge (near Jindas) to the northn of the city built in 1273, up to the khan of Jaljulyah, built around 1325. Moshe Sharon (1999) Corpus inscriptionum Arabicarum Palaestinae, (CIAP) Publisher BRILL, ISBN 9004110836, p 229[/quote]

Hope it helps best wishes Ashley. What next or shall I keep on looking for Jisr Jindas?... Coords I've given (31° 58’ 07.51’’ N 34° 54’ 00.78’’E) are good Wadi Salman and River Ayalon are the same feature.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 01:03, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Petersen, 2002, p. 183, gives as location: 1408.1529    31.58N/34.55E,
 * Cheers, Huldra (talk) 21:30, 21 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Petersen is not accurate at 31° 58’N 34° 55’E, 1 min covers quite a large area. The coords 31° 58’ 07.42’’ N 34° 54’ 01.76’’E are good.

full set North abutment:31° 58’ 07.28’’ N 34° 54’ 01.82’’E

Central span: 31° 58’ 07.42’’ N 34° 54’ 01.76’’E

South Abutment: 31° 58’ 06.90’’ N 34° 54’ 01.64’’E

all on the centre line of the road. It's very easy to identify. When the Petersen coords are plotted they don't plot onto the river or the road, the Petersen coords are crude approximations..
 * Heh; ok, I trust you,..btw, I really wish I had some pictures of the lions on Qasr al-Basha..but I guess the people of Gaza presently have other worries than their representation on wp....Cheers, Huldra (talk) 22:23, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I've seen some great pictures of it some time ago, 7 or 8 moths ago when Almerson was working on the Gaza strip. Maybe you should ask him/her for links...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 22:27, 21 October 2009 (UTC)


 * done..Huldra (talk) 22:42, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Picture of one Lion on page 19 now all you want is an open licence...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 22:53, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, yeah; looks very much what is pictured in Sharon (Sharon has more close-up)..I´ll see what Al-Almeerson can come up with...cheers, Huldra (talk)

I've plotted Petersens 1408.1529 which gives the position of the coords for the bridge I picked out (between the railway bridge and the new road bridge)...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 19:23, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

al-Majdal, Tiberias
Walid Khalidi (1992) All that remains: the Palestinian villages occupied and depopulated by Israel in 1948 Publisher Institute for Palestine Studies, ISBN 0887282245 p.530

[al-Majdal identified as ancient Magdala

Denys Pringle (1998) The Churches of the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem: L-Z (exluding Tyre) Publisher Cambridge University Press, ISBN 0521390370 p 153]

[An hour still to the north is located the village al-Majdal, identified with the home of Mary Magdalena... Before Tiberias was built, it was the chief city of the district

Samuel Macauley Jackson, Lefferts Augustine Loetscher (1977) The new Schaff-Herzog encyclopedia of religious knowledge v. 6 Publisher Baker Book House, ISBN 0801079470 p 421]


 * If you don't mind AshleyK, I'll start this one up right now. Thanks for gettin it started. When are you going to be able to edit directly again?  T i a m u t talk 17:30, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Huldra has plenty on her User:Huldra/Sources getting articles started page. I'm still in prison for another 8 months. I've got loads of your birds in Order, family species lists...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 17:38, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I saw the bird stuff too. I've just gotten a little fatigued of putting that list together for the time being. I'll try to get back to it soon. I think I'd like to have al-Majdal up as a stub for now to get people working on it. I find that when I put stuff in user space, it just languishes there. I start second guessing if its good to go or not. Best to open it up to others right away so all paties can pitch in. (Except for those of us who still have time in the penalty box. I'm sorry about that AshleyK. It's a terrible waste of your abilities to have you confined to this talk page.)
 * Anyway, thanks for keeping things coming and going. My deepest regards,  T i a m u t talk 17:43, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

It's no problem Tiamut, Huldra pops by and makes coords requests and I keep an eye on looking up missing bits, I've found nearly all of you 500 birds of Palestine.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 17:48, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Birds of Palestine
Palestine is host to a treasure trove of biodiversity as it lies at the crossroads of the European, Asian, and African continents, the Mediterranean and Red seas. The unique environment nurtures Palestinian biological diversity through the convergence of various geo-climatic conditions that include the Mediterranean Sea, the desert, the woodlands, and the Jordan Rift Valley. The Gaza Strip is home to 39 resident bird species and on the route of 195 migrant bird species belonging to 18 orders and 53 families. Palestine Authority is host to x number orders, x number families, x number species resident or migratory birds out of 843 species recorded in the Middle East.

It has been estimated that five hundred million birds migrate annually along the Gaza coastline or through the narrow corridor of the Jordan valley between the southern and northern hemispheres.

Areas covered:

Walls of Jerusalem http://www.wildlife-pal.org/walls_of_jerusalem.htm

Wadi al-Quilt (Jerusalem) http://www.wildlife-pal.org/wadi_al_quilt_region.htm

Jerusalem Wilderness region of Bethlehem/Hebron http://www.wildlife-pal.org/jerusalem_wilderness_region.htm

Mar Saba – Wadi Qadron (Bethlehem) http://www.wildlife-pal.org/mar_saba_-_wadi_qadron.htm

Wadi Al-Makhrour (Bethlehem) http://www.wildlife-pal.org/wadi_al-makhrour.htm

Al- Fashkaha region (Jericho) http://www.wildlife-pal.org/al-fashkaha_region.htm

Jericho http://www.wildlife-pal.org/jericho_region.htm

Al-Oja springs (Jericho) http://www.wildlife-pal.org/al-oja_springs_region.htm

Wadi Gaza (Gaza Strip) http://www.wildlife-pal.org/wadi_gaza_region.htm

Wadi Al Quff (Hebron) http://www.wildlife-pal.org/wadi_al-quff.htm

Um Al-Safa (Ramallah) http://www.wildlife-pal.org/um_al-safa.htm

Qenya Springs (Ramallah) http://www.wildlife-pal.org/qenya_springs.htm

Um Al-Rihan Forests (Jenin) http://www.wildlife-pal.org/un_al-rihan_forests.htm

Note: I have only extracted Bird names from the sources that have indicated the Birds can be found within the area that The President of the United States referred to as Palestine.

Obama's speech
In Obama's speech the terms; OPT, Judea and Samaria ripped up and substituted with PALESTINE for the whole with West bank and Gaza as regions of PALESTINE.


 * "'At the same time, Israelis must acknowledge that just as Israel's right to exist cannot be denied, neither can Palestine's. The United States does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements. This construction violates previous agreements and undermines efforts to achieve peace. It is time for these settlements to stop."


 * "Israel must also live up to its obligations to ensure that Palestinians can live, and work, and develop their society. And just as it devastates Palestinian families, the continuing humanitarian crisis in Gaza does not serve Israel's security; neither does the continuing lack of opportunity in the West Bank. Progress in the daily lives of the Palestinian people must be part of a road to peace, and Israel must take concrete steps to enable such progress.'"

Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 23:26, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

annually.

Birds of Palestine Order Passeriformes
Order: Passeriformes perching birds sometimes called songbirds

Family: Phylloscopidae


 * Chiffchaff (Phylloscopus collybita); common WV
 * Eastern Bonelli's Warbler (Phylloscopus orientalis)
 * Bonelli's Warbler (Phylloscopus bonellii); common migrant and uncommon SV
 * Dusky Warbler (Phylloscopus fuscatus)
 * Hume's Warbler (Phylloscopus humei)
 * Mountain Chiffchaff (Phylloscopus lorenzi)
 * Willow Warbler (Phylloscopus trochilus); common migrant
 * Wood Warbler (Phylloscopus sibilatrix); common migrant in the plains
 * Yellow-browed Warbler (Phylloscopus inornatus); one obtained by Tristram at Jericho in 1864

Family: Cisticolidae; Cisticolas and allies


 * Fan-tailed Warbler (Cisticola cisticola); locally common resident


 * Scrub warbler (Scotocerca inquieta); uncommon resident


 * Graceful Warbler/Graceful Prinia (Prinia gracilis); common resident

Family: Motacillidae; Pipits and wagtails


 * Richard's Pipit (Anthus richardi)
 * Tawny Pipit (Anthus campestris)
 * Tree Pipit (Anthus trivialis)
 * Meadow Pipit (Anthus pratensis)
 * Red-throated Pipit (Anthus cervinus)
 * Water Pipit (Anthus spinoletta)
 * Buff-bellied Pipit (Anthus rubescens)


 * Yellow Wagtail (Motacilla flava)
 * Citrine Wagtail (Motacilla citreola)
 * Grey Wagtail (Motacilla cinerea)
 * White Wagtail (Motacilla alba)

Family: Emberizidae; Buntings


 * Cinereous Bunting (Emberiza cineracea)
 * Cretzschmar's Bunting (Emberiza caesia)
 * Black-headed Bunting (Emberiza melanocephala)
 * House Bunting (Emberiza sahari)
 * Ortolan Bunting (Emberiza hortulana)
 * Pine Bunting (Emberiza leucocephalos)
 * Reed Bunting (Emberiza schoeniclus)
 * Rock Bunting (Emberiza cia)
 * Yellowhammer (Emberiza citrinella)


 * Corn Bunting (Miliaria calandra)

Family: Estrildidae


 * Indian Silverbill (Lonchura malabarica)

Family: Fringillidae Finches


 * Chaffinch (Fringilla coelebs)
 * Brambling (Fringilla montifringilla)


 * European Serin (Serinus serinus)
 * Syrian Serin (Serinus syriacus)


 * European Greenfinch (Carduelis chloris)
 * European Goldfinch (Carduelis carduelis)
 * European Siskin (Carduelis spinus)
 * Linnet (Carduelis cannabina)


 * Desert Finch (Rhodospiza obsoleta)


 * Hawfinch (Coccothraustes coccothraustes)


 * Sinai Rosefinch (Carpodacus synoicus)


 * Trumpeter Finch (Bucanetes githagineus)


 * Common Crossbill (Loxia curvirostra)

Family: Remizidae


 * European Penduline Tit (Remiz pendulinus)

Family: Prunellidae


 * Hedge Sparrow (Prunella modularis); fairly common WV

'''Family: Passeridae;


 * Dead Sea Sparrow (Passer moabiticus)
 * House Sparrow (Passer domesticus)
 * Spanish Sparrow (Passer hispaniolensis)


 * Pale Rock Sparrow (Petronia brachydactyla)

Family: Paridae


 * Great Tit (Parus major)

Family: Timaliidae


 * Arabian Babbler (Turdoides squamiceps)

Family: Oriolidae


 * Golden Oriole (Oriolus oriolus)

Family: Pycnonotidae


 * Common Bulbul (Pycnonotus barbatus) The bulbul, a festive songbird that is common in Wadi El Bazan, Wadi Al Qilt and Ein Qeenia.

Family: Nectariniidae


 * Palestine Sunbird (Cinnyris oseus)a small black bird with glittering iridescent colours prevalent in desert areas.

Beit ar-Rush al-Tahta
(بِيت ال روشْ التَ حتَا)PCBS p. 120

Deir al 'Asal at Tahta
(دير العسل التحته)PCBS p. 119

Muhammad Abu Maher Ghneim
Muhammad Ghneim/ Muhammad Abu Maher Ghneim

Note; Ghneim along with Faruq al-Qaddumi amongst the numerous Fatah activists and leaders who refused to "return" to the still-occupied West Bank and Gaza after Oslo, arguing that to do so would place Fatah too tightly under the thumb of Israel's occupation regime.

Nigel Craig Parsons (2005) The politics of the Palestinian Authority: from Oslo to al-Aqsa Publisher Routledge, ISBN 0415944406 p 136

The Coordinator of the Israeli Army Activities in the Palestinian occupied territories Shlomo Dor announced Israel's approval of the return of Al-Qaddumi and Abu Maher Ghneim and refused the return of Nayef Hawatmeh.

One or two other newspaper articles for ref to Muhammad Abu Maher Ghneim for Al Ameer son

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3754325,00.html Ramallah: Warm welcome for 'Abbas' heir' by Ali Waked Published YNet News 29 July 2009

According to media reports, one of Fatah's founders - Muhammad Ghneim - arrived Wednesday from Tunisia. The Syrian delegates are expected to arrive on Thursday. These delegates will be entering the West Bank through the Allenby Bridge crossing from Jordan.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1248277925059&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull Netanyahu: 'Crossings shut until Schalit freed' By HERB KEINON Published Jerusalem Post 29 July 2009

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1103776.html Israel allows Fatah hard-liner to enter West Bank following Abbas request Published Ha,artez 29 July 2009

http://www.spa.gov.sa/english/details.php?id=688667 Saudi Press Agency 29 July 2009

Ironically, Qaddumi was the chief beneficiary of Arafat's death: he succeeded Arafat as the party's general secretary. His decision to boycott Bethlehem means he will lose this role. Abbas has won a first-round, pre-conference victory by bringing another senior rejectionist, Muhammad Ghneim, on board, while sidelining Qaddumi and cutting his funding as a warning to all recalcitrant leaders abroad. Qaddumi may have been sidelined, but his case illustrates many of Fatah's problems.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/aug/04/fatah-conference-palestinian Reforming Fatah from the grassroots up

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8194552.stm Young leaders dominate Fatah vote Published BBC News 11 August 2009

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=309180&version=1&template_id=46&parent_id=26 Key Fatah panel gets new faces By Rachelle Kliger and Helda Eriqat/Bethlehem, West Bank Published Gulf Times 16 August 2009

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/132658 One Arafat Co-Terrorist Returns, Second Goes to Jail by Maayana Miskin Published Arutz Sheva 30 July 2009

Muhammad Ghneim (also known as Abu Maher Ghneim),

http://saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentID=2009081246509 Fatah ‘coup’ by young leaders Published Saudi Gazette

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSLC73906 FACTBOX-Final results of Fatah Central Committee vote Reuters 12 August 2009

Fateh is preparing for its Sixth Conference in Bethlehem scheduled to take place on August 4 amid internal controversies and international diplomatic efforts. While Israel has allowed a number of Fateh leaders outside to enter Palestine to attend the conference, including top Fateh man Abu Maher Ghneim,

http://www.miftah.org/Display.cfm?DocId=20198&CategoryId=10 Fateh Conference Surrounded by Controversy, International Diplomacy [July 25 – August 1] Published MIFTA 01 August 2009

In addition, Abu Mazen personally is still wavering over whether to run as a Fatah candidate in the next presidential elections. In all the press interviews he has held recently, he has refused to clarify his plans. However, sources within Fatah have indicated that the Palestinian president is studying the possibility of not nominating himself and that deliberations are currently in progress within the faction over an alternative candidate. One possibility, according to a recent leak from within Fatah, is Abu Maher Ghneim, head of the movement's organisational committee. Yet the prospect of Ghneim's candidacy is difficult to imagine, firstly because he is vehemently opposed to Oslo and secondly because he refuses to return to the West Bank as long as it is under Israeli occupation.

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2007/860/re5.htm 'No elections if Hamas will win' by Saleh Al-Naami Published Al-Ahram 30 August - 5 September 2007

Kaddoumi's camp, largely made of men born in pre-state Palestine but who spent most of their lives in Syria and elsewhere in the Arab world, also includes veteran Fatah leaders and Oslo opponents Muhammad Ghneim (Abu Mahir) and Sahkr Habash. It derives what strength it has from largely hollow PLO institutions abroad and its element of control over Palestinian legations around the world.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=500568&displayTypeCd=1&sideCd=1&contrassID=2 Background / Arafat's rival heirs - a field guide By Bradley Burston, Haaretz Correspondent Published Ha’aretz November 2004

Fatah central committee member Muhammad Ghneim stated: "The Palestinian people... have set the end of September as the last date to achieve a settlement realizing the[ir] hopes... [particularly] the right of return for the refugees. Resolution 242 alone is not the basis for a Palestinian-Israeli reconciliation... any disregard of the other resolutions such as 181 and 194 will leave the wound open and the conflict valid." Al-Ayyam, 20 July, 2000.

http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP13200#_edn3 Middle East Media research Institute. 06 October, 2000

...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 03:40, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Possibility of gaming post 30 august?
The use of internet networking tools is gaining in use world wide- don't miss this excellent opportunity to gain valuable information to enhance your networking skills online. The lecture/workshop is being organized by CoHaV, a coalition of hasbara volunteers.

Seminar on the Use of Social Media Networking Tools Seminar networking organised by hasbara? I guess we'll all be looking forwards to that one.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 02:14, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

refs for requested article 1657 Ottoman military campaign in Palestine
First of the four dramatic and rather violent moments was the 1657 Ottoman military campaign, which sought to restore central control in southern Syria. This campaign introduced a new and stable group of ruling families to Jabal Nablus, families that came to dominate the region’s political life well into the nineteenth century....

Beshara Doumani (1995) Rediscovering Palestine: merchants and peasants in Jabal Nablus, 1700-1900 Publisher University of California Press, ISBN 0520203704 pp 34-40

Sultan Mehmed IV Grand Vizier Köprülü Mehmed Pasha

Follow the money.

Trade routes:
 * India-Basra Damascus Aleppo-Istanbul. Indian cotton, Iranian silk and Syrian silk.
 * Yemen-Cairo-Gaza-Damascus-Aleppo –Istanbul. Yemen Coffee.

Traders:
 * by Levant Company (Armenian French conglomerate)trading centres; western Mediterranean and Levant.
 * by East India Company. Trading centres; India and Basra.
 * by Venetian Traders. (Venetian traders losing out to Dutch and English traders)
 * by French Caravani-transportation rather than traders.

During the war against the Venetians (Cretan War, Siege of Candia)

Cats
Category: Arab neighborhoods in Jerusalem needs a GeoGroupTemplate

History of United Nations peacekeeping missions
I noticed you have made a number of edits to this article and I have proposed deleting/moving/redoing it and drawn up a very rough draft of a replacement. If you're interested, please read my comments on the discussion page and respond if you have any thoughts. --Jieagles (talk) 23:28, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

As I am presently unable to respond on the discussion page I'll put some thoughts here.

1. Yes it should be History of United Nations Peacekeeping rather than a list.

2. founding in 1948 not 1956. 1956 was an extension of peacekeeping missions; for a more rapid response force (and armed) rather than the observer role of UNTSO. note Timeline of United Nations peacekeeping missions, it would look mighty peculiar to have UN peacekeeping prior to UN peacekeeping being founded.

3. Canadian Prime Minister Lester Pearson's policing proposal of 1956 (Nobel prize 1957) constituted an extension of peacekeeping principles (supervisory police), building on well-established foundations.

4. "failure to deliver food to starving people in Somalia" as delivering food aid is not a peacekeepers job I may be getting the erroneous impression that you are compiling a list of anti-UN rhetoric? Especially as you have omitted all the successful peace keeping missions.

5. I shall certainly be chipping in on UN peacekeepers in the future.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 00:45, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I have taken into account your comments 2 & 3, or attempted to. As for #4, that passage was copy/pasted from another article, however, the distribution of food aid was one of the major objectives and justifications for UNOSOM I & II and UNITAF, authorized to "to use all necessary means to establish a secure environment for humanitarian relief operations in Somalia as soon as possible."  A few links on food here and here.  That was mostly a criticism of UNOSOM I, as UNITAF and UNOSOM II were much more effective.
 * The section is not anti-UN rhetoric, it is where the criticisms of UN peacekeeping are noted. These criticisms exist and they have to be in the article.  the previous paragraph is very positive, "seven of eight countries at peace", "decline in global violence", etc.  However, it did seem to end the article on a low note and I have added some UN responses to these criticisms in the following paragraph. I have also expanded the history section so that nearly all missions get a mention. discussions of success/failure could be incorporated there, but I do want to avoid it becoming another list (UNTAG-Success; MONUC-Failure or something like that). I look forward to your contributions. --Jieagles (talk) 01:50, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

It is still not peacekeepers job to distribute food. They make an area secure but do not distribute. It is up to other aid agencies to carry out the distribution. Only anti-UN rhetoric would misguide or obfuscate in such a manner as to suggest that the UN peacekeepers should act outside their given mandate (normally set by the SC, so blame the SC for the wrong mandate).

I agree it should not be a list as a list is already in existence. There is a great need for the history of peacekeepers and their limitations imposed by the mandates. It's a very large subject. I only pushed the actual founding into the original and left the list due to the amount of time that would be needed to cover the subject...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 02:07, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Food Aid and International Hunger Crises: The United States in Somalia by Marion Nestle and Sharron Dalton and they called that a success, only because the US demanded that they led.

Thanks Nishidani..Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 01:16, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

refs
It is always better to understand the organisation before putting in criticism. Some helpful reading (the last, Keeping the peace, is probably the best work to start with):-

History of Organization

David S. Sorenson, Pia Christina Wood (2005) The politics of peacekeeping in the post-cold war era Publisher Routledge, ISBN 0714684880

Lise Morjé Howard (2008) UN peacekeeping in civil wars Publisher Cambridge University Press, ISBN 0521881382

Michael W. Doyle, Nicholas Sambanis (2006) Making war and building peace: United Nations peace operations Publisher Princeton University Press, ISBN 069112275X

Stephen John Stedman, Donald S. Rothchild, Elizabeth M. Cousens (2002) Ending civil wars: the implementation of peace agreements Publisher Lynne Rienner Publishers, ISBN 1588260836

Michael W. Doyle, Ian Johnstone, Robert C. Orr (1997) Keeping the Peace: Multidimensional UN Operations in Cambodia and El Salvador Publisher Cambridge University Press, ISBN 0521588375

Ayn Ghazal coords
Thanks Tiamut...You're a star...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 21:08, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * No problem Ashley. Its the least I can do when someone is working hard to provide much needed details to articles sorely in need of attention by people who have real knowledge and facts to apply. I don't quite understand why you are still being prevented from contributing directly yourself. Sometimes, the rules at Wikipedia are applied so randomly. They say blocks are preventitive, not punitive and yet here you are, continuing to contribute in good faith from the confines of your talk page, and instead of some admin taking the initiative to unblock you, certain editors are fishing around to see if they get others blocked for passing on the information you place on this page. Amazing. Anyway, as always, much appreciated Ashley.  T i a m u t talk 21:14, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Well as I haven't been topic banned No more mr nice guy must mean someone else. If you look further up you see the same discussion occurred earlier. Only it was myself who asked that very question and the reply was as other editors had requested the information it was fine. I refer to postings between Bachrach44 and myself at the bottom of adding coordinatesAshley kennedy3 (talk) 21:22, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Besides the pro-Israeli faction are perpetrating infractions of wiki rules re soliciting. ...could it be User:Tundrabuggy/ Dajudem sockpuppet clones? Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 21:38, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Besides as Ynhokey says it's informative not POV pushing. .Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 21:43, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

What's the chance of 69.86.147.2 and 74.64.96.178 being the same person gaming on the same article?...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 23:52, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Missing from Violence in the Israeli Palestinian conflict 2000
Makes a bit of a mockery of wiki saying that the was a Death Toll in 2000 of just 44 Violence in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict 2000. I don't know about you but there a quite a few more than 44 in the above list (partial list of 132). That makes Violence in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict 2000 both inaccurate and POV. Due to the fact that the complainers have absolutely no reason to be unaware, (as they did complain about me attempting to insert accurate and reliable information) they have no excuse that they did not know....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 10:19, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

maybe someone would like to explain why the article showing less than 25% of those killed is still not displaying a tag showing that the article to be inaccurate or POV?...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 10:37, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Jayjg actively removing Palestinian dead from the list and wikifan12345 is unable to fathom why an inaccurate and POV article has tagged.Jayjg removing referenced work and wikifan12345 removing tags. The above list makes Jayjg and wikifan12345 look exactly what they are...That is jayjg and wikifan12345 are extremist inserting POV....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 11:05, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Can everyone of these be reliably sourced to neutral sources? If so, I don't know how anybody can object.To be honest, I don't know whether we should actually have lists like this reeling off lists of every civilian that died in a conflict. I wonder whether they should be taken to AFD. Especially when they are mostly unreferenced anybody can insert their own POV into them.. Himalayan  13:18, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

B'Tselem is a reliable neutral source. Used by every Sovereign state in the world, even the US, B'Tselem is commonly used by sovereign states in preference to all other sources, especially as the Israeli government is not taken as a neutral source due to it only recording Israeli deaths (even the PA records both Israeli and palestinian deaths)...... The lists are also corroborated in the UN archives under "Chronological Review of Events Relating to the Question of Palestine" for each month taken from reliable newspaper sources, Jpost Ha'aretz, AFP, AP etc etc etc.... Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 14:34, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

B'Tselem figures used as a source by respected Authors:-

Avery Plaw (2008) Targeting Terrorists: A License to Kill? Ethics and global politics Publisher Ashgate Publishing, Ltd., ISBN 0754645266 p 64

Tomis Kapitan (1997) Philosophical perspectives on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict Publisher M.E. Sharpe, ISBN 1563248786 p 125

Actually the Israeli contention with B'Tselem is not with the accurate tally of Dead (even Efraim Karsh uses B'tselem figure) but with the designation of "Non-participation in Hostilities". The pro-Israelis consider the B'Tselem designation as "massaging", however the pro-Israeli also consider armed students on pre-military training as non-combatants. So there is something of a double standard in operation...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 16:19, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * could you provide the links to the sources for these so they can be added to the article? thanks.  untwirl (talk) 19:48, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I would but I think that it could be misconstrued as a wiki violation of actions to evade a block...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 23:24, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Request coordinates for villages
Hi Ashley. Can you list the coordinates next to these villages so I can add them. Forgvie me if I've listed ones we already have, if you could remove the ones we already have from the list and list the coordinates for those actually missing this would be a great help...

Himalayan  15:07, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

A nice long list. I am working through it will post the list when finished.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 11:59, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

PS you have been busy. Well done just watch out for Ammuqa/Ammuka. There are some that have a propensity to confuse issues where the name sounds the same but the geographical locations are not the same. Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 14:33, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi, sorry I didn't check back later, I did after a few days and you hadn't responded so I didn't look again. I'm adding the coordinates now, thanks. I'll let you know when I'm up to L so you can add the rest. Thanks. Himalayan   10:38, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for not checking in; I've been reading. I'll compile the next bit....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 12:38, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

and which district next?...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 15:42, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Ramla done

Himalayan  11:14, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh, you're a tinker. You slipped that list in when I was playing around on another section so that I nearly missed it...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 15:15, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

With reference to the Dayr Ayyub and the DMZ around the Latrun salient. The 1949 cease fire agreement did not make the Latrun salient depopulated merely a Demilitarised zone (civilian were allowed, by the 1949 agreement, into the DMZ). The Israeli forces used excessive force to eject the Palestinian population forcibly stopping Palestinians re-entering their own homes. The Israeli government then authorised Israeli creeping encroachment and laid claim to the DMZ. In 1950 the Israeli military patrol should not have been in the DMZ when they murdered the 2 children Ali Muhammad Ali Alyyan (12) and his sister Fakhriyeh Muhammad Ali Alyyan (10).

Added both coordinates and corrections. Himalayan   19:49, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Where to next?...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 21:34, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

District of Haifa?
Abu Shusha 32° 36' 50.95’’ N 35° 08' 16.45’’ E · Abu Zurayq 32° 38' 02.50’’ N 35° 07' 33.50’’ E ·'Amriyye 32° 45' 55.70’’ N 35° 06' 46.00’’ E·'Ara· Arab al-Fuqara 32° 27' 07.70’’ N 34° 54' 21.05’’ E·Arab al-Nufayat 32° 25' 28.95’’ N 34° 54' 53.50’’ E· Arab Zahrat al-Dumayri 32° 27' 30.90’’ N 34° 54' 23.80’’ E ·'Ar'ara·'Atlit needs redirect to Atlit (funny how a town founded in 1903 appears on maps printed in the 1880s, could be that the founding date is incorrect?) see also Ein Hod/Ayn Hawd·Ayn Ghazal·Ayn Hawd·Balad ash-Sheikh· Barrat Qisarya 32° 30' 33.65’’ N 34° 54' 59.65’’ E ·Basmat Tab'un·Beit Lehem 32° 44' 47.30’’ N 35° 11' 50.40’’ E· Burayka 32° 33' 29.05’’ N 34° 58' 39.40’’ E see also additional info on Burayka· al-Burj, Khirbat 32° 30' 34.35’’ N 34° 56' 26.20’’ E·al-Butaymat 32° 33' 10.75’’ N 35° 05' 40.00’’ E ·Buweishat 32° 32' 18.44’’ N 35° 06' 54.40’’ E·Daliyat al-Carmel· Daliyat al-Rawha also spelt Daliat-El-Ruha 32° 35' 28.15’’ N 35° 04' 41.00’’ E see Dalia, Israel·al-Damun, Khirbat 32° 43' 58.00’’ N 35° 01' 21.95’’ E·Dar al-Hannoun (Rujm al Ahmar? see also Dar al Hanun 32° 29' 31.70’’ N 35° 03' 57.75’’ E)·al-Dumayri 32° 27' 39.00’’ N 34° 55' 11.65’’ E marked as an area (ad Dumayri) rather than a village·Fureidis· al-Ghubayya al-Fawqa 32° 36' 05.40’’ N 35° 09' 04.75’’ E·al-Ghubayya al-Tahta 32° 36' 25.45’’ N 35° 08' 59.70’’ E ·Hajajra· Hawsha 32° 47' 33.25’’ N 35° 08' 36.50’’ E ·Hilf 32° 44' 47.35’’ N 35° 08' 52.35’’ E note Hilf needs a dis-ambiguous page·al-Humeira 32° 47' 34.35’’ N 35° 10' 17.05’’ E·I'billin·Ibtin·Ijzim·'Isfiya 32° 43' 06.25’’ N 35° 03' 55.15’’ E·Jaba' 32° 39' 04.75’’ N 34° 57' 43.35’’ E·al-Jalama·Jeida aka Ramat Yishai 32° 42' 11.55’’ N 35° 09' 55.65’’ E·Ka'abiyya·al-Kababir 32° 48' 20.55’’ N 34° 58' 13.00’’ E·Kabara 32° 32' 55.50’’ N 34° 55' 14.40’’ E·Kafr Lam·al-Kafrayn 32° 34' 24.70’’ N 35° 07' 08.50’’ E·al-Kasayir, Khirbat 32° 47' 36.00’’ N 35° 08' 18.80’’ E·Khubbaiza 32° 33' 21.90’’ N 35° 04' 02.05’’ E·

note Ijzim ;anti-Egyptian uprising in 1834 should be linked to 1834 Palestinian revolt article.

Khaled Fahmy (2002) All the pasha's men: Mehmed Ali, his army, and the making of modern Egypt Publisher American Univ in Cairo Press, ISBN 9774246969. This book should be included as a ref for 1834 Palestinian revolt.

Have you noticed that Google has now gone in for the Hebrewdisation of West bank maps? ...occurred at about 1700hrs GMT 24th October 2009Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 10:26, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Problem with Kh. Al Biya aka Al Byar and al Bir: from the mapping (1942) it appears in Haifa district not Jenin....? see Wadi Ara.... Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 10:41, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

note al-Naghnaghiyya reveal the hidden history of Jezreel; Marj Ibn Amer (Meadow of Amr's son) and British mandate as Plain of Esdraelon

note Bat Shlomo aka Bat Shelomo and Umm Jimal

where next?...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 15:19, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

any takers for Acre?

District of Tulkarm
Note al Jalama needs dis-ambiguous page to accomodate both al Jalama, Haifa and al Jalama, Tulkarm. ps why the hyphenated al-?..Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 14:52, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean move page title or redirect the red link? Himalayan   21:02, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

The more usual way of referring to the village is Khirbat Bayt Lid. If a reader is searching then it should be caught either way. same with the hyphenated al-s, the un-hyphenated needs a re-direct or vice versa both methods need to be included...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 21:53, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

You haven't directly answered what I was looking for. Should Bayt Lid, Khirbat by moved to Khirbat Bayt Lid, or should Khirbat Bayt Lid be redirected to Bayt Lid, Khirbat?  Himalayan   09:16, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

correctly speaking the article title should be Khirbat Bayt Lid, however so long as there is a redirect it is immaterial what the title of the article is...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 10:05, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

We need an article on the Marsh Bedouin of Palestine, it would make explanations of Ghabat Kafr Sur, Bayyarat Hannun, Arab al Nufay'at, Wadi Bourstany, Zor al Zerka, Arab as Sawalima etc more accurate...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 12:30, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Kafr Saba the Maqam of Shaykh Sam'an near Kfar Saba was demolished by unknown assailants in 2005. Pappé, Ilan, (reprint 2007) The ethnic cleansing of Palestine, Oneworld Publications Limited, ISBN 978-1-85168-467-0p 219

District of Jaffa
al-'Abbasiyya 32° 01' 50.35’’ N 34° 53' 25.05’’ E · Abu Kishk· Bayt Dajan· Biyar 'Adas· Fajja· al-Haram· Jalil aka collectively Ijlil al-Qibliyya (Jalil south) & Ijlil al-Shamaliyya (Jalil North), 32° 09' 36.00’’ N 34° 48' 42.35’’ E · al-Jammasin al-Gharbi aka Jammasin Morris reports 1 Dec 1947 Palestinian Arab traders driven out of Tel Aviv and Jewish markets p 67. 32° 05' 25.05’’ N 34° 47' 36.65’’ E · al-Jammasin al-Sharqi· Jarisha (Yarkon Park) 32° 05' 44.95’’ N 34° 52' 39.80’’ E · Kafr 'Ana· al-Khayriyya· al-Mas'udiyya 32° 05' 07.00’’ N 34° 46' 54.45’’ E · al-Mirr forested area on the eastern boundary of the Yarkon sports complex. 32° 06' 43.20’’ N 34° 54' 57.15’’ E · Rantiya· al-Safiriyya 31° 59' 36.20’’ N 34° 51' 03.35’’ E · Salama· Saqiya· al-Sawalima aka Arab as Sawalima 32° 06' 49.05’’ N 34° 50' 59.70’’ E · al-Shaykh Muwannis· Yazur

al Jammasin al Sharqi
Unable to supply coords for al Jammasin al Sharqi as it requires a whole lot of discussion on "what is a village"? Colonial western thoughts on what constituted a village (and semi-nomadic/semi-sedentary) were predisposed to deny that al Jammasin al Sharqi was a village. The result is that al Jammasin al Sharqi does not appear on any maps as a village (its permanent fields and orchards do). The "village" is described as mud huts and tents and the cadastral surveys show fields and orchards. The area that the semi-sedentary Bedouin remained in is delimited by the encroachment of "permanent settlement" (the permanent settlements were found to be not so permanent against Israeli bulldozers). The Marsh Bedouin in the main raised cattle (water buffaloes) and had permanent fields (mainly wheat crops) and orchards (mainly oranges and olives). The "village" would be moved within the area at no set time but move on the grounds of hygiene. So, what's a village? Note the permanent structures of this particular village were the fields and orchards (the fields and orchards had been worked for several generations). Note the residents of al Jammasin al Gharbi appear to have also shared in the farming of al Jammasin al Sharqi hence the two are collectively known as Jammasin with the Palestinian Arab village of Jarisha laying between the two Jammasins.

NB. A clay brick could also be said to be nothing but baked mud, meaning that most westerners live in glorified mud huts and wooden shacks.

note: Imposition of European concepts of land rights through the interpretation of Ottoman law by British colonial officials adversely affected the rights of Marsh Bedouin along the coastal plain.

Colonialism, Colonization, and Land Law in Mandate Palestine: The Zor al-Zarqa and Barrat Qisarya Land Disputes in Historical Perspective

District of Jerusalem
Allar 31° 43' 26.10’’ N 35° 03' 45.00’’ E · Aqqur 31° 45' 29.60’’ N 35° 04' 56.20’’ E · Artuf· Bayt 'Itab· Bayt Mahsir 31° 47' 39.70’’ N 35° 02' 04.75’’ E · Bayt Naqquba· Bayt Thul 31° 49' 20.90’’ N 35° 04' 25.90’’ E · Bayt Umm al-Mays 31° 46' 51.30’’ N 35° 04' 54.90’’ E · al-Burayj 31° 44' 19.40’’ N 34° 55' 43.75’’ E · Dayr Aban 31° 44' 34.60’’ N 35° 00' 37.45’’ E · Dayr 'Amr 31° 46' 37.15’’ N 35° 05' 47.35’’ E · Dayr al-Hawa 31° 45' 04.45’’ N 35° 02' 13.60’’ E · Dayr Rafat see also Deir Rafat this is one of those add to the confusion type naming of places.· Dayr Rafat, according to the British mandate maps was the convent, Rafat, Jerusalem the village was about 1km East of the convent, along the ridge, at 31° 46' 25.90’’ N 34° 57' 34.90’’ E · What is also missing is Khirbet as Sureik; 31° 46' 39.20’’ N 34° 57' 09.20’’ E 400m away (ENE) from the convent· Dayr al-Shaykh  31° 44' 55.15’’ N 35° 04' 04.95’’ E· Deir Yassin· Ayn Karim·Ishwa· Islin· Ism Allah, Khirbat 31° 46' 59.05’’ N 34° 57' 20.55’’ E· Jarash· al-Jura 31° 45' 25.05’’ N 35° 08' 58.85’’ E· Kasla 31° 46' 51.65’’ N 35° 03' 03.70’’ E (Sheik Ahmad shrine  31° 46' 45.30’’ N 35° 02' 34.90’’ E)· al-Lawz, Khirbat 31° 46' 01.45’’ N 35° 06' 46.30’’ E· Lifta· al-Maliha· Nitaf aka Khirbet Natuf 31° 50' 13.25’’ N 35° 03' 58.65’’ E and shrine to Sheik Mas'ad· al-Qabu 31° 43' 39.90’’ N 35° 07' 12.40’’ E · Qalunya· al-Qastal· Ras Abu 'Ammar 31° 44' 17.00’’ N 35° 05' 32.75’’ E·Sar'a 31° 46' 28.90’’ N 34° 59' 08.15’’ E shrine Nabi Samil· Saris 31° 47' 52.60’’ N 35° 04' 27.55’’ E· Sataf31° 46' 10.90’’ N 35° 07' 34.80’’ E· Sheikh Badr· Suba· Sufla 31° 44' 04.40’’ N 35° 02' 28.90’’ E· al-Tannur, Khirbat 31° 42' 54.30’’ N 35° 03' 00.55’’ E · al-'Umur, Khirbat 31° 47' 33.30’’ N 35° 05' 55.30’’ E · al-Walaja

apologies
sorry if you had been waiting for these tiamut but I was resting my eyes after completing the other districts. My vision was beginning to go a bit fuzzy after spending a while pawing over maps with a magnifying glass....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 05:31, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * How could you apologize Ashley? Its a miracle that you continue to pump these out month after month. Only thanks are due. I'll continue adding more later today I hope. Cheers my friend.  T i a m u t talk 12:51, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Always my pleasure to help out...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 13:07, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Odd bits to Dist of Jerusalem
Rafat, the village, gave its name to the modern convent built at Deir Rafat: The Shrine of Our Lady “Queen of Palestine” aka “Reginae Palestinae" (still extant at Deir Rafat). Now Convent, Christian retreat and orphanage. Deir Rafat is home to the Mony (Moni) Winery

Maliha: In the thirteenth century the Christian Georgian Orthodox order, based in the Monastery of the Holy Cross, possessed lands in the area and the village was probably settled by workers attached to the monastery.ref-Avraham Negev, Shimon Gibson (2005) Archaeological encyclopedia of the Holy Land Publisher Continuum International Publishing Group, ISBN 0826485715 p 435

District of Tiberias
‘Awlam, aka 'Ulam 32° 40' 04.15’’ N 35° 29' 58.00’’ E shrine to Sheik Dahwa· al Dalhamiyya, aka ed Delhemiyeh and Khirbet Dalhamiya 32° 39' 11.00’’ N 35° 34' 17.35’’ E also just to confuse matter further Ashdot Ya'akov is annotated as "Dalhamiya (Ashdot Ya'akov)" any takers?· Ghuwayr Abu Shusha, aka Ghuweir Abu Shusha 32° 51' 11.60’’ N 35° 30' 32.65’’ E 2 shrines Sheik Muhammad (one west, one south)· Hadatha, 32° 41' 00.60’’ N 35° 29' 18.80’’ E  shrine Sheik Abu al Hija · al Hamma, 32° 41' 09.70’’ N 35° 39' 56.45’’ E on the Haifa spur line to Der'a lay within the DMZ· Hittin, · Kafr Sabt, · Lubiya aka Lubieh, South African Park was planted over the village remains. The Israeli town of Lavi was built further away (approx 1.5 km North East) on Lubya village lands.· The remains of Lubiya are south of the 77 while lavi is north of the 77, Givat Avni (1 Km east of the site of the remains of Lubiya) is closer to the remains of Lubiya than Lavi.· The South African Forest is another famous case of ripping out orchards replacing with pines and then calling it making Israel green.· Ma'dhar, 32° 41' 42.65’’ N 35° 28' 04.95’’ E · al-Majdal, Tiberias, · al Manara, Tiberias, 32° 45' 38.70’’ N 35° 32' 26.35’’ E  the 0.5 sq km of Olive plantation · south of the village structures was ploughed under and replaced by bare ground in the Israeli programme "making the deserts bloom"·I'm making it up about it being part of a programme called "making the deserts bloom", however the 0.5 km plantation was ploughed up and left bare, not even a tree· al Manshiyya, are you sure that there was an al-Manshiyya in the District of Tiberias? Manshiyya Acre, Manshiyya Safad, Manshiyya Tulkarm even a Manshiyya Beisan but Tiberias?· al Mansura, Tiberias, 32° 53' 36.00’’ N 35° 24' 59.95’’ E· Khirbat Nasser al Din aka Nasir ad-Din, Nasr ed Din, Nasir ed Din, (mostly with the prefix Khirbet) 32° 46' 43.15’’ N 35° 31' 29.65’’ E· Nimrin, · al Nuqayb, aka Nuqeib 32° 47' 57.05’’ N 35° 38' 26.60’’ E on the Eastern side of the Lake ·(clever place to put the village, I wasted 1/2 a day scouring the maps of the western side of the lake. Note to self look at article to see if there are any clues to where the place is)· Samakh, · al Samakiyya, aka Talhum 32° 52' 55.25’’ N 35° 34' 42.80’’ E, Tell Hum, Arab es Semakiyeh· al Samra, · al Shajara, · al Tabigha, · al ’Ubaydiyya, · Wadi al Hamam, · Khirbat al Wa’ra al-Sawda’, · Yaquq.

South African Forest (ruins of Lubiya)
The "Ruins of Lubiya" were euphemistically annotated as the "heaps" of Lubiya by Israeli cartographers in the 50s.

Lavi is a surname plucked from the Talmud (talmudic version of Levi) and plonked down on the new town of Lavi due to phonetic similarity and not through any biblical connection.

for further explanation of the ruins of Lubiya/Lubya and the South African Forest read;-

Uri Davis (2003) Apartheid Israel: possibilities for the struggle within Publisher Zed Books, ISBN 1842773399 pp 53-59

What the JNF South Africa doesn't bother to inform you about is the massive deforestation that was carried out to re-plant none productive Pine and Cypress trees.

Nur Masalha (2005) Catastrophe remembered: Palestine, Israel and the internal refugees : essays in memory of Edward W. Said (1935-2003) Publisher Zed Books, ISBN 1842776231 pp 192-193

The Khan while on what was village land is the other side of Giv'at Avni at coords 32° 46' 51.50’’ N 35° 26' 54.65’’ E

Nathan, Susan “The other side of Israel, my journey across the Jewish-Arab divide.” Harper perennial ISBN 0-00-719511-7 p 236

and why I'm using Lubiya. Lubiya is the transliteration used on the British mapping and I do not know what the better transliteration is. Books such as:-

Salomon E. Grootkerk (2000) Ancient sites in Galilee: a toponymic gazetteer Publisher BRILL, ISBN 9004115358 are a waste of book shelf space due to the fact that they use European transliteration and have absolutely no reference whatsoever to any Arabic when looking at the history of name changes.

odd bits to District of Tiberias
al Dalhamiyya; Fruma Zachs (2005) The making of Syrian identity: intellectuals and merchants in nineteenth century Beirut Publisher Brill, ISBN 9004141693, p 222 family of Wahyi al Din (1870s pan Arabist and council member of Beirut city council) moved to al Dalhamiyya.

It appears that Morris, yet again, only gives half the story of al Dalhamiyya. The inhabitants didn't evacuate on 15 April but remained, ran away from the advancing Haganah forces (but obviously not very far) as they returned and held on to their property until being forcibly evicted in November 1948.

Pappé, Ilan, (reprint 2007) The ethnic cleansing of Palestine, Oneworld Publications Limited, ISBN 978-1-85168-467-0 p 189 Dalhamiyya inhabitants evicted 5 November 1948 and land appropriated by the Kibbutz Ashdot Yaacov. quoting IDF archives; 51/1957, file 20/4. 11 November 1948

Manshiyya, Tiberias
Morris only mentions Manshiyya, Safad, Acre and Yaffa (Tulkarm). The maps of 42 only have Manshiyya Safad, Acre and Tulkarm. The 1946 maps also shows a Manshiyya in District of Beisan, the 1880s PEF don't have a Manshiyya in Tiberias area. Sami Hadawi, does not have anything on Manshiyya, Tiberias. The only mentions of manshiyya Tiberias is on the Palestine Remembered web site and the site gives 2 different positions, meaning that PR is not consistent within its site and if it is inconsistent then I tend to find it unreliable when not backed by other sources. So what do you want to do? My opinion is that Al-Manshiyya, Tiberias should be deleted until such time as a RS is found.

Bayyarat Hannun
32° 17' 33.00’’ N 34° 51' 41.55’’ E Morris village number 374 ordered out start of April 1948 Morris laughably refers to it as a "Migratory movement" (after an 1985 interview) it was a Bedouin village, with orchards and set fields for corn.

Daliyat al-Rawha
Daliyat al-Rawha also spelt Daliyat ar Ruha and Daliat-El-Ruha 32° 35' 28.15’’ N 35° 04' 41.00’’ E see Dalia, Israel see Morris (2006) p xvi village number 162 Military assault and whisper campaign on the village which according to WP:Dalia, Israel didn't exist?

Yosef Weitz (Director of the JNF lands department) on Palestinian Arab tenant Farmers:-

[quote]is not the time to be rid of them [he was referring specifically to tenant farmers in Yoqne'am and Daliyat ar Ruha]? Why continue to keep in our midst these thorns at a time when they pose a danger to us? Our people as considering [solutions]. Weitz Diary III p 223 entry for 11 January 1948. Morris (2006) pp 131 and 159[unquote]

He [Weitz] organised the eviction of tenant farmers at Daliyat al-Ruha.Weitz Diary III p 256-257 entry for 26 March 1948. Morris (2006) pp 132 and 159

[quote]In reality, HGS [Hagana General Staff] began thinking of destroying the villages around the kibbutz [Mishmar Ha'emek] shortly after Qawuqji launched his attack. On 5 April, HGS\Operations instructed the Golani Brigade: 'You must tell the following villages...that we cannot assure their safety and security, and that they must evacuate forthwith.' Among the four villages named were Abu Shusha, next to Mishmar Ha'emek, and Daliyat al Ruha and Rihaniya, 4-5 kilometres to the west-northwest. Morris (2006) pp 241 & 296[unquote]

On 22 April, then Hagana command, agreed to provide the manpower and equipment to set up five new settlements, all on Jewishn owned (or non-Arab) land - at Khirbet ad Duweir, Kafr Misr, Ma'lul, Ashrafiya and Daliyat ar Ruha. Weitz Diary III p 271-272 entry for 22 April 1948. Morris (2006) pp 372 & 405

By June 1948 the palestinian Arab village of Daliyat al-Rawha had been erased.[quote] Almost certainly on the basis of a progress report from Weiz, Ben Gurion, on 16 June, partially summarised the destruction of villages to date: Al Mughar, Fajja, Biyar Adas have been destroyed. [Destruction is proceeding in] Miska, Beit Dajan (east of Tel Aviv), in [the] Hula [Valley], [in] Hawassa near Hiafa, al Sumeiriya near Acre and Ja'tun [perhaps Khirbet Jattun] near Nahariya, Manshiya...near Acre, Daliyat ar Ruha has been destroyed and work is about to begin at [al] Buteimat and Sabbarin. DBG-YH II p 523-24 Entry for 16 June 1948. Morris (2006) pp 350 and 398[unquote]

According to the contemporaneous records the land was PICA owned with Palestinian Arab tenant farmers not quite what WP:Dalia, Israel states.

Dar al Hanun
Unrecognised village established in 1925.

Taayush; Voluntary Work Camp in the Unrecognized Village of Dar el-Hanun 16-18/8/2001

Taayush; July 14 courthouse in Haifa

Activists protest house demolitions in Arab village By Jackie Khouri, Haaretz Correspondent Published Ha'aretz 8 January 2005

200 protested demolition orders in Wadi Ara unrecognized village By Yoav Stern, Haaretz Correspondent Published Ha'aretz 5 May 2007

Dar al-Hanun has been there 80 years, but state still refuses to recognize it By Yoav Stern Published Ha'aretz 6 May 2007 on the 41 maps it possibly appears as Rujm al Ahmar.

Residents of unrecognized Wadi Ara village repave razed road By Yoav Stern, Haaretz Correspondent Published Ha'aretz 14 November 2007

Association of 40 21 December 2008

Association of 40 21 December 2008

and the usual one rule for Jewish Israelis and another rule for Palestinian Israelis

Haredi town planned where Arab construction banned By Zafrir Rinat Published Ha'aretz 8 September 2009

Arabs, kibbutzniks forge unlikely alliance against proposed haredi city east of Hadera By Matthew Wagner Published JPost 8 September 2009

User:Keverich1
Jiujitsuguy canvassing Keverich1 and then No More Mr Nice Guy grooming Jiujitsuguy (note; Jiujitsuguy after making 20 edits already knows who is pro-Israeli?)

User Keverich1 likes to demonise, Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne ‎ given that Hitler himself didn't invade Poland but the German Army did, Keverich1 removed nuance to insert demonisation.

I was so amused by this edit...it takes one, to know one? LOL! Cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:22, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

It is ammussing that the pro-Israeli faction spend more time on wiki-Lawyering and searching for alleged infractions than on editing....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 12:56, 12 October 2009 (UTC)


 * You know, I *almost* believed Millmoss....he protested soooo strongly that he wasn´t Nocal/LoverOfTheRussianQueen etc.  Then I noticed something strange...and fancy that; after that he became awfully quiet..Lol! Huldra (talk) 10:30, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Sheikh Bureik
Hi, hope you are surviving...here is a little task for you, see WikiProject Palestine/Sheikh Bureik? Do you have any idea as to the co-ords?...if you go to the Beit She'arim National Park-article...click on the "Israel in Photos" external link at the bottom; you will see the shrine...Cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:17, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes I do know the coords. 32° 40’ 17.75’’ N 34° 56’ 21.50’’ E... next to the motor way (2) just South-East of Neve Yam...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 12:43, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Someone tell Himalaya that the coords are done...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 11:30, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Huldra, Zero has given you access to a good series of British Mandate maps; unfortunately of the series of 12 maps covering British mandated Palestine only 8 are available in the Florida library. Guess what; Sheikh Bureik is on Map sheet 3 Zikhron Ya'aqov Map ref 145E 231N marked as Kh Sh Bureik from the University of Florida Smathers Library...Sheikh Bureik is/was north of al Tantura, south of Atlit, west of Ein Carmel South West of al Mazar on the coastal plain bordered by the coast highway 2.... Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 17:28, 14 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Are you sure about this?? --there were *two* Sheikh Bureik; read the discussion here: User_talk:Al_Ameer_son, ...I hope you have not given me the co-ords to the wrong one?? I´m collecting sources for a total of 4 new achitect. articles, see:
 * WikiProject Palestine/Jisr Jindas
 * WikiProject Palestine/Mamluk Bridge, Yibna
 * WikiProject Palestine/Mausoleum of Abu Huraira
 * WikiProject Palestine/Sheikh Bureik
 * If you know of any more sources: do tell! take care, Huldra (talk) 22:28, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

The Google map position is the position I have given co-ordinates for. Or rather I've given the position slightly further west as per the old maps in the national Forest planted over the village alongside the coastal route 2....I'll look for the 2nd Sheik Bureik and try to establish which one is which .....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 23:14, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

The Northern Sheik Bureik or Shyah Abaryek is by Tivon and the Beit Shearim Jewish necropolis and has nothing to do with the Sheik Bureik Islamic shrine at Sheik Bureik, Haifa. I've given you the co-ords for the Islamic shrine Sheik Bureik, Haifa...(both are in National Forests)...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 23:36, 15 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok; you have given me the *wrong* coords then :(  ..if you look at the this file: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sheikh_Abreik_Grave_in_Kiryat_Tiv'on,_Israel.jpg..it is clearly by Beit Shearim (which is NOT only a wholly Jewish necropolis; that was sort of the point...) Also, if you look at the "external links" under Beit She'arim National Park: "Israel in photos"..you will see the shrine...Huldra (talk) 00:43, 16 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Read this note from Zero: Huldra (talk) 00:46, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Got ya. Ash sh Bureik Beit Shearim national forest map ref to the F J Salmon mapping 162500E 234000N. coords are 32° 42’ 16.20’’ N 35° 07’ 45.70’’ E. However the Salmon mapping indicates the shrine at Kh Ash Sheik Bureik at co-ords 32° 42’ 07.65’’ N 35° 07’ 44.75’’ E (a short distance along the ridge from Ash Sheik Bureik, the funny little semi circles indicate tombs, shrines and ruins on the F J Salmon mapping unfortunately most of the military versions omitted parts of the Legend so as not to confuse the soldiers)...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 01:15, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok; thanks, I´ve taken the second set then; I assume that was for the shrine (the village was apparently to the north of the shrine), Huldra (talk) 01:24, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

As zero correctly pointed out the shrine was close by spot height 137 metres....his overlay agreed with the Salmon mapping, so I would take that as confirmation for the coords at Kh ash Sheik Bureik (the second set, 32° 42’ 07.65’’ N 35° 07’ 44.75’’ E)....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 01:35, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

What strikes me as unusual is that at a time when the use of Hellenic/Greek was very much frowned upon by Judaism that the necropolis is full of Greek inscriptions...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 01:44, 16 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok, thanks; have added the co-ords...as for the rest: see the discussion Zero &I have had on each orhers talk-pages...And *do* read the Sharon-pages (through google), which are linked now in the article...Huldra (talk) 01:49, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

The Sharon link was good but the PEF's SWP was absolutely fascinating...note the survey of Sheik Breik area was started by the PEF on 26th November 1872 and sergeant Black was assaulted (ref p 24 of SWP)....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 03:16, 16 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmm, *please* give direct link, this time to SWP, 1881, I, p.24..I think he was assaulted by the villagers of el Harithiyeh.....(wherever that was..) ..And yeah, I *know*...there is *tons* of info to be added.... and I got the SWP-link from Sharon (it was not online when the book was published!) Huldra (talk) 04:51, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

(Beit Shearim) 1936- 1940 excavation of Beit Shearim necropolis and town conducted by B Mazar.

Avraham Negev, Shimon Gibson (2005) Archaeological encyclopedia of the Holy Land Publisher Continuum International Publishing Group, ISBN 0826485715, p 48

I was just following the dates of the original surface survey and the early digs around Sheik Bureik, a wee bit different to the info available in the current article...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 11:39, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

[quote]It was on the questions of Jewish Life in the Galilee in the “post-destruction” period that Bet She’arim excavations focused (1936-1940). Bet She’arim ”is known in Jewish literary sources as a city of the late Second temple Period and continued to exist during the centuries immediately following the Temples destruction” (Mazar 1973:1). Bet She’arim and “its neighbourhood” were initially possessions of the Hasmoneans (4). While its fate in the immediate aftermath of the “Jewish war” (i.e., late first century C.E.) is obscure (in literary sources), it appears that in the last quarter of the second century, Bet She’arim was a Jewish agricultural settlement and the home of one of the important Tannaim [authorities/teachers quoted in the Mishna]” (ibid.) Moreover, “the change which came about in the Jewish settlements of the Galilee after the Bar Kochba Revolt (132-35 C.E.) marked a turning point in the history of Beth She’arim” (ibid.) It was in the aftermath of that defeat that “many Jews including leaders and sages, who had been forced to leave their homes in Judah, came to Galilee, settling Bet She’arim and its environs. The Antonine-Severine period (138-235 C.E.) was one of growth and posterity for Jewish settlements in the lower Galilee. Bet She’arim...grew to become one of the most important centers of Judaism in the days of Rabbi Judah ha-Nassi” (ibid)

...Bet She’arim may well have ceased to exist as a Jewish city at the end of the fourth century...

Nadia Abu El-Haj (2001) Facts on the ground: archaeological practice and territorial self-fashioning in Israeli society Publisher University of Chicago Press, ISBN 0226001954 p 81[unquote]

Sheik Bureik near Atlit
Not known to many, but forever remembered by its former residents - the story of the Armenian village Sheikh Brak is one of Israeli ambivalence toward the Armenian Holocaust.

The unseen village By Sara Leibovich-Dar Published Ha'aretz 26 May 2003


 * Ah, this was a very interesting article. The mausoleum mentioned in the article is described in Petersen, 2002, "A Gazetteer of Buildings in Muslim Palestine", pp 215, 216, also Figure 71, under the heading of "Malaha". Petersen gives the location as 32.40N/34.56E. According to figure 71, the tomb has *one* dome (unlike the other Sheikh Bureik, which has two). Also according to Petersen, it was mentioned in 1596-dafar (HG, p. 158) with 8 households. Also according to Petersen, it is mentioned in SWP, p.289 and p.314, p.315. According to Petersen, p 215: "The site does not appear to have been inhabited in the Mandate period, apart from temporary occupation around the shrine of Shaykh Burayk".  Maybe an article in the future, *if* we could get a picture...Cheers, Huldra (talk) 00:39, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome Huldra...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 02:02, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Ein Hod/Ayn Hawd
On a side note; cartographic evidence, note that the orchards surrounding Ein Huad on the new series maps were uprooted by the JNF and replanted with cypresses as a national park during the "greening of Israel". How uprooting productive orchards that had been cultivated for generations and replanting with cypresses can be called making Israel green I'll never understand....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 20:04, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Susan Nathan in an interview with Abu Hayja describes the uprooting of Orchards on the Carmel Mountains around Ayn Hawd and subsequent re-forestation with pines and cypresses. Remarking that the 'buy a tree for Israel' was used as a weapon in the war against the Palestinian Israeli population of Ayn Hawd. Where the borders of the national Forest were set close to the Palestinian Israeli village of Ayn Hawd, with no allowance made for 'natural growth', while the national forest borders where set well outside the Jewish Israeli villages of Ein Hod and Nir Ezion to allow for plenty of 'natural growth'.

Susan Nathan (2005) The Other side of Israel Published Harper Perennial ISBN 0-00-719511-7 pp 129-130.

Funny how Ein Hod doesn't also direct to the Palestinian Israeli village of Ein Hawd (ecept in a very prefunctionary manner) not even in the see also section.

Initially the Israeli approved name given to the village by locals was Kefar Abû al-Hayjā. In 1978 the villagers were able to reclaim the name Ein Houd. Susan Slyomovics (1998) The Object of Memory: Arab and Jew Narrate the Palestinian Village University of Pennsylvania Press, ISBN 0812215257 pp 120-121

The hebrewdisation has caused a fundamental name change; while Hebrew Ein and Arabic Ayn both mean a spring, while the phonetically similar Hod and Hawd have different meanings, Ein Hod: spring of glory, Ayn Hawd: spring of the trough.

The Ayn Hawd redirect should be turned into a dis-ambiguous page directing to Ein Hod and Ayn Hawd (the hebrewdised Ein should be dropped and replaced with the Arabic transliteration Ayn)

F J Salmon Mapping

 * on another side note we could do with an article on the Fredrick John Salmon maps (he was the director of Survey and the land office when the maps, that zero linked to, were produced). Although F J Salmon was more cadastraly (land use and ownership) inclined he produced those lovely topographical maps (although the series in Florida University is the later military version).

Note: the early part map of 'Ain Haud and Atlit area without the (military) grid overlay. More use of colour, more annotations of features, no contour lines and greater cadastral detailing. The Sheik Abreik tomb is annotated rather than the later dot and half crescent moon symbol.

Article request
Palestine Investment Fund (PIF)

The fund (with $872m of assets) has re-emerged from Fatah control to what looks like a good investment vehicle to develop Palestine. So far the auspices look good, if it can get passed the Israeli building restrictions on Palestinians building for Palestinian "natural" growth within the West Bank. The PIF was initially established in 1995 and then later re-established in Palestine by decree of the President of the Palestinian National Authority (Arafat) on 1st October, 2000. It is a separate legal entity that aims to acquire/invest, and to sell/dispose off Portfolio Investments, Liquid Investments, and Temporary Investments that promote economic growth and infrastructure development in Palestine."

US Department of State Remarks by US Secretary of State Warren Christopher During the Announcement of Qatari-Palestinian Investment Fund 29 October 1995 at Marriott Hotel Amman, Jordan

Palestinian Investment Fund, No Longer Secret, Will Close By WILLIAM A. ORME Jr. Published New York Times 7 July 2000 (Dooh Mr Orme as it wasn't a secret 5 years previously it could hardly be called a secret in 2000, or maybe secret to Mr Orme means un-aware of what's public knowledge)

An independent Palestinian Company, with all its assets and capital belonging to the Palestinian people. PIF aims to develop a sustainable, strong Palestinian National Economy, through different strategic investments in association with the private sector, Palestine Investment Fund (PIF)

Disagreements within the management board over the mechanism for managing the PIF's investments in Arab countries led to businessman Samir Said Khouri and businessman Engineer Jawdat al-Khudari submitting resignations in March 2005.

At the time when investment in Palestine was being encouraged not merely to increase the size of the economy, but also to increase private sector employment, generate income, and improve living standards US lawyers froze the US funds of the PIF. Palestinian Authority's US assets are frozen By Farah Stockman, Globe Staff Published Boston Globe 30 August 2005

Overseas Private Investment Corporation, OPIC, in partnership with the World Bank's International Finance Corporation, the United Kingdom's Department for International Development, the Palestine Investment Fund, and the Bank of Palestine, created a $500 million mortgage lending facility (AMAL, Affordable Mortgage and Loan company) in the West Bank.UNISPAL press release Remarks by US Treasury Deputy Secretary Robert M. Kimmitt at the Palestine Investment Conference 21 may 2008 US Gov press release 29 April 2008 Overseas Private Investment Corporation press release 14 April 2008

Mohammad Mustafa, the chairman (assuming the leadership of PIF in 2006) and CEO of the PIF, doubled as Abbas's chief economic adviser. Debate over control of Palestinian investment fund Published Reuters 28 April 2009

Palestine Investment Fund was a Fatah/PLO controlled portfolio; the administration and control was transferred to the Palestinian authority and administered by a reform-minded finance minister, Salam Fayyad.

Palestinians unveil their most ambitious housing project yet By Reuters published Ha’aretz 12 October 2009

Wataniya International Wataniya Palestine Telecom (WPT) is owned and controlled by the PIF in partnership with National Mobile Telecommunications Company (NMTC) (NMTC is owned by; 51% owned by Qatar Telecom QSC, Qtel, and 43% owned by PIF). WPT was established in December 2006 as a partnership between NMTC and the PIF. Wireless Federation Qtel Mobile press release note Wataniya Mobile has threatened to withdraw from Palestine if the 4.8MHz frequencies are not provided.

[quote]Wataniya hoped to launch last April, but unwittingly became a political pawn in clashes between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Tensions piqued last week when the [Israeli] government, which controls the airwaves in the Palestinian territories, threatened to withhold Wataniya's spectrum indefinitely unless the PA dropped its demand for Israel Defense Forces officers to be tried at the International Criminal Court. This followed the publication of the controversial Goldstone report, which accuses both Israel and Hamas militants of war crimes during the December-January hostilities in Gaza.

Palestinian mobile firm in political firestorm delays launch - again By Ashley Bates Published Ha'aretz 17 October 2009 [unquote]

gosh how did I know there was going to be trouble over Wataniya? Another example of Israeli destruction of palestinian infrastructure and economy. The 800lbs gorilla in the room beating its chest - again.

As if this was not enough, the Israeli media reported that Jerusalem had delivered an “ultimatum” to the Palestinian Authority: if the request for a debate were not withdrawn, Israel would not authorize the frequency allocation for a second Palestinian cellular telephone company, “al-Wataniya”, whose partners, it was gleefully reported, include Abbas’ sons. Such a frequency allocation is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Even in such a matter, the Palestinians are totally dependent on the Israeli occupation authorities.

[http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2009/10/18/the-slippery-slope/ The Slippery Slope By Uri Avnery Published in PalestineChronicle.com. October 2009]

Palestinian cell phone company launches West Bank network By Reuters Published Ha'aretz 1 November 2009

Jordanian support for the PIF. Jordan supports Palestine’s investment conference Jordanian Gov Press release 13 Feb 2006.

The PIF is one of the latest wave of smaller sovereign wealth funds that appear to be allocating to hedge funds. HFM

Palestinians plan to boost housing by investing in City hedge funds by Phillip Inman Published Guardian 25 October 2009

Blair Hails Economic Steps in West Bank

Note the New York Times now refers to the West Bank as Palestine. (see google earth New York times layer. only recently as there are only 2 articles on the layer from 10 November 2009)

Be aware of pro-Israeli propagandists using the PIF assets as a means of casting aspersions of financial irregularities at Arafat.
 * On a somewhat related subject, you might want to take a look at this, concerning "positive economic inducement strategies (PEIS) as part of U.S. involvement in Israeli-Palestinian negotiations in the 1990s." Regards, CasualObserver&#39;48 (talk) 01:04, 15 October 2009 (UTC)


 * On that note you may want to take into account that US economic inducement strategies have had a negative effect on the economies it induces, due to the strings attached. The US economic strategies have destroyed the mangrove swamps that protected the South East Asian coastline as well as the rice paddies in the coastal hinterlands. Joseph Stiglitz gives a far more comprehensive account of US economic inducement strategies. MERIA is for jingoistic tub-thumpers with an attention span too short to read a book....Besides which; the 800 lbs gorilla in the room is the fragility of the economy of Palestine due to the ability of the Israeli occupation forces to arbitrarily close the West Bank. The Israeli government may have removed 25 road blocks but that still leaves 600 road blocks to go. The main one being the Alenby Bridge and access to the Jordanian market....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 09:02, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * LOL, I am glad it was so helpful. CasualObserver&#39;48 (talk) 15:10, 15 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The MERIA article left an awful lot unsaid, implied that the US and the West was the only donor to Palestine. Whereas the main donor is Europe followed by Arab league with the US filling a minor slot. The US is a major donor in the region only by dint of the cash to Israel (and increasingly to Egypt). The MERIA article gathered the aid to Palestine and Israel into one lump, as though the proportion to Israel was equal to the US aid to Palestine, which it definitely is not. As the first sentence of the MERIA article says US aid is to advance US interests in the region and not to advance Palestinian interests...Anything that MERIA prints needs to be taken with a large pinch of salt...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 20:11, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Re: Your first sentence: the article stayed on its topic, apparently you know more for a larger one. Second sentence: Obviously you do; why is the US contrib. so small, the article discusses several reasons within a context, but there are others.  Third: Including the commitments made at Camp David, which you note.  Fourth: Again, you know more; do you have a ref for that number or percent-split?  That is a valid criticism, if it is not noted.  Fifth: While I could not find that sentence, I’ll take your word for it and reply in the following para.  Lastly, rest assured that my editorial diet is not salt-free.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/palestinian-authority-faces-cash-crunch-as-arab-states-cut-aid-1.309025 Arab League aid at 22%


 * As with any country, US foreign aid is to advance US interests in the region. The problem is in defining what those national interests really are, balancing competing ones, and balancing what/who defines them; it exists as an imperfect balance between true national interests, a generally uninformed electorate and an inordinate domestic political influence, as the article notes, and all at tax-payer expense.  US policy should never be to advance either Palestinian or Israeli interests, mutual ones, yes.  Currently defined issues include Palestinian rights and Israeli security; the road ahead is clear, yet the commitment to get there seems insufficient, given the militant maximalists on both sides and one's influence here.  It will take tightening the purse-strings or a couple more elections in various places.  Concerning the recent US election, I will note with some metaphorical glee, that our foreign policy head seems to have been pulled from some alternate-world asshole, and has started breathing again.  Regards, CasualObserver&#39;48 (talk) 08:52, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

As the majority of the aid to Palestinians is EU and Arab League, US aid is not likely to advance US interests very much. And as Israel ignores US requirements, even though Israel is the major recipient of US aid; it looks like the US taxpayer is getting a bad deal...As to should advance mutual interests, the US economists appear to have been of the opinion that 'he who pays the piper calls the tune' and no acknowledgement to the mutual side...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 14:17, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

additional info on Burayka
32° 33' 29.05’’ N 34° 58' 39.40’’ E

Burayka also variously spelt Bureika (for alternative spelling see note 613 on page 297 to page 243 in Morris' book, Morris uses Bureika in the main text and Burayka in the notes) destroyed by the British Army in 1938 still derelict in May 1940. Ref Dov Gavish (2005) A survey of Palestine under the British Mandate, 1920-1948 Volume 3 of Routledge Curzon studies in Middle Eastern history Publisher Routledge, ISBN 0714656518 p 186 (hence the school closing during the British mandate period?)

(quote)(27). Khubbeiza (Haifa area. Arab sources refer to a massacre. Israeli sources make no mention of a massacre, but acknowledge that Kubbeiza was one of the four villages attacked by the IZL. In the same operation which attacked Khubbeiza, Sabbarin, Umm Shouf and Bureika massacres did occur in two of these four.

Abu Sitta, The Palestinian Holocaust (Al nakba) 1948, The register of Depopulated Localities in Palestine, Preliminary draft. 1997, 10, is the Arab source. Morris, see note 5, map, identifies 12-14 May as date of IZL occupation. On 243-244, Morris reports: “IZL forces...on 12 May attacked and cleared the last Arab villages in the Hills of Menashe...The dissidents attacked Sabbarin, al Sindiyana, Bureika, Khubbeiza and Umm al Shauf.” The Hagana often tried to distance itself from the IZL and Lehi by describing them as “dissidents,” though the British High Commissioner for Palestine, Sir Alan Cunningham, discounts this claim. [note it has been reported many times how Irgun or the Stern gang would initiate violence and when a Palestinian reaction occurred the Hagana would retaliate as though IZL and hagana were acting in coordinated co-operation]

Editors Eyal Benvenisti, Chaim Gans, Sārī Ḥanafī (2007) Israel and the Palestinian refugees, Publisher Springer, ISBN 3540681604 Saleh Abdel Jawad, Zionist Massacres: The Creation of the Palestinian refugee problem p 109.(unquote)

Benny Morris p. xvi village number 161 cause of depopulation; fall of nearby town (C) (however in main text of Morris' book he reports attacks by IZL clearing the villagers)

p. 130 The inhabitants of Bureika, south east of Zikhron Ya’akov, were apparently ordered at the beginning of March by the AHC to evacuate so that the the village might serve as a base for attack by irregulars on the Hiafa-tel Aviv road. But most or all of the villagers appeared to have stayed put.

And from page 97 opposed the garrisoning of ALA forces.

An epilogue to the battle was provided by the IZL, whose units from Zikhron Ya’akov, Hadera, Binyamin and Netanya on the 12 may attacked and cleared the last Arab villages in the Hills of Menashe, overlooking Mishmar Ha’emek from the West. The Dissidents attacked Sabbarin, al Sindiyana, Bureika, Khubbeiza and Umm al Shauf. Many villagers had fled during the previous weeks. Sabbbarin had been ordered by Umm al Fahm’s leaders to stay put. But most of the remaining villagers fled as the Jewish forces approached and laid down mortar fire. pp 243-244


 * 1) Morris, Benny, (second edition 2004 third printing 2006) The Birth Of The Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited, Cambridge University Press, ISBN 0-521-00967-7

either Morris didn't read what he wrote or Morris is utterly disingenuous.

Rashad Shawa Cultural Center
The Rashad Shawa Cultural Center, located in Rimal is a two-storey building with a triangular footprint designed by Sa'ad Mohaffel competed in 1988 and named after its founder, Palestinian Nationalist and former mayor Rashad al-Shawa. The cultural center performs five main functions; a meeting place for large gatherings during annual festivals, a place to stage exhibitions, a conference centre, a playhouse and as a library. PCHR press release11 December 1997 [http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/07/26/iqbal-tamimi-duraid-laham-drinks-the-toast-of-his-homeland-in-gaza-but-how-drunk-palestinians-should-become/ Iqbal Tamimi – Duraid Laham drinks the toast of his homeland in Gaza, but how drunk Palestinians should become? By Iqbal Tamimi 26 July 2009] Archnet Digital Library

The large stained-glass windows incorporated in the culture centre were executed by the Gazan artist Leila (Rashad) Shawa, daughter of Rashad Shawa.

Gaza’s culture of resistance was evidenced with the first screening of Gaza’s home grown film industry offering of “Imad Aqil” in August 2009

First of its kind film festival in Gaza By Nelly Al-Masri/Common Grounds News Service

The centre has run a satirical play called al-Watan (The Nation).Hamas and Fatah in the dock for 'audacious' new drama in Gaza City By Agence France Presse (AFP) Published Daily Star (Lebanon) 18 August 2007, which puts the kibosh on those that believe that Hamas run the place with an iron fist.

al-Ramadien
Hebron Govenorate, more correctly should be Ar Ramadin 31° 22' 33.30’’ N 34° 54' 20.55’’ E (present coords are for the original village depopulated in 1948).

Children and minors in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.
[quote]Although his eight siblings are trying to engage him in play, Youssef is hanging onto his mother. This two-year-old was born and has, so far, lived in a prison cell with mother Fatma "Al-Zaq", a Palestinian woman who was detained in Hasharon Prison in central Israel until released on Friday as part of the "videotape deal" between Hamas and Israel.

Youssef, the first Palestinian child to be born and raised behind Israeli prison bars, is still uncomfortable in his new environment.

Seal no deal by Saleh El-Naami Published Al Ahram Weekly issue 967 8-14 October 2009 [unquote]

Naom Tibon
Outgoing Division Commander Tibon said that “from the moment I received the position in July of 2007 I was aware of my full responsibility, as Commander of Judea and Samaria, for the security of the State of Israel. Together with my comrades in the security forces, we brought terror to its lowest level in the past decade, with thousands of brave and dangerous actions carried out by thousands of soldiers and commanders. I am a great believer in the idea that terror is eliminated not just through force but also through creating hope and normalcy in the Palestinians' lives for a better future of dialogue.”

[http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/133745 Brig.-Gen. Nitzan Alon Named Judea and Samaria Commander by Gil Ronen Published Arutz Sheva 7 October 2009]

How over 600 road blocks can be considered as normal, I cannot comprehend. How the events in Hebron can be considered as normal, I cannot comprehend. How an ongoing military occupation can be considered as normal is something that I personally have a problem comprehending. Obviously Tibon has a somewhat skewed notion of what is normal.

Bayt Jibrin and James Leslie Starkey
(Bayt Jibrin) British archaeologist James Leslie Starkey is best known for his work at Lachish (Tel ed-Duweir), where he excavated under the auspices of the Palestine Exploration Fund Wellcome-Marston Archaeological Research Expedition to the Near East; supported and financed by largely funded by Sir Henry Wellcome, founder of the Wellcome Trust, and initially by H. Dunscombe Colt and carried out from 1932 to 1938 (1938 season was carried out by Tufnell).[4] Starkey's murder occurred on his way to the inauguration of the Palestine Archaeological Museum (Rockefeller museum, the opening of which was postponed to the 13 January due to his death.).[1] Starkey was a student of Flinders Petrie [3] and an associate of Olga Tufnell. One of the important discoveries at Lachish made by Starkey and Tufnell were the Lachish ostraca (18 in 1935 and 3 more in 1938). Lachish Letters, letters sent by an officer, Hoshaiah, to the governor of Lachish describing the impending fall of the kingdom of Judah to the Babylonian forces of Nebuchadnezzar.

Two Palestinian Arab members of the band who had murdered Starkey were hanged in Jerusalem on 23 January, 1938.

[1] Avraham Negev, Shimon Gibson (2005) Archaeological encyclopedia of the Holy Land Publisher Continuum International Publishing Group, ISBN 0826485715, p 48 ...

Margaret S. Drower (1995) Flinders Petrie: a life in archaeology Publisher University of Wisconsin Press, ISBN 0299146243 p 415

[2] Palestine Exploration Fund, Profiles; James Leslie Starkey

[3] Eric M. Meyers, American Schools of Oriental Research (1996) The Oxford encyclopedia of archaeology in the Near East, Volume 5 Publisher Oxford University Press, ISBN 0195065123 p 77

[4] Alfred Rupert Hall and B. A. Bembridge (1986) Physic and philanthropy: a history of the Wellcome Trust, 1936-1986 Publisher CUP Archive, ISBN 0521326397 p 14 Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 03:26, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Atlit
Missing from Atlit

Canaanite name was Qarta or Certha.

Later it was a Phoenician port constructed late-ninth or early-eighth century BCE (Radiocarbon analysis carried out by E. Boaretto on three samples of Lebanese cedar wedges that had been used to level the stone courses, ashlars,  and straighten the stones)

The Phoenician Harbour of Atlit Despite the size and the sandy shores of the southern bay, the builders selected the northern bay to serve as the city's main harbour. This side is well protected from the dominant west and southwest winds by the promontory on its southwest and the two islets on its west that belong to the coastal sandstone ridge. The natural location of the bay exposed it only to the northern and eastern winds. (We may assume that the southern bay was used as an anchorage for small seacraft when the weather permitted it.) The gap between the promontory and the estuary of Nahal Oren, which runs into the northern bay of Atlit, provides a maximum wave force of only a few hundred meters, hence there are no risks of storm waves from that side. This is the reason for the choice of this position as the main entrance to the harbour. The harbour was divided into two symmetrical sectors, each consisting of a mole (protruding jetty) running perpendicular to a quay (Raban 1997a: 16), which together created a closed rectangular area of low water energy. An opening between the ends of the two moles served as the harbour entrance. The northern mole protected the harbour basin from the northern swell. Anchored to one of the sandstone islets, it was accessible only by sea. At a depth of one and a half to six meters below sea level, it would have allowed anchorage of bigger seacraft. The eastern side of the harbour is better sheltered. The southeastern quay abuts the coast at the foot of the ancient tell, slightly east of the crusader moat. This area may have served as the town's mercantile port. Johns exposed an older structure beneath crusader layers on the shoreline, north of the tell. The structure consisted of a stone-paved surface and two flanking towers. He named it the "Northern Gate" (Johns 1934:fig.4)-

Hellenic Adarus Jerusalemite Michael Avi-Yonah, Ephraim Stern (1978) Encyclopedia of archaeological excavations in the Holy Land Publisher Prentice-Hall, ISBN 0132751151 p 130 Walid Khalidi (1992) All that remains: the Palestinian villages occupied and depopulated by Israel in 1948 Publisher Institute for Palestine Studies, ISBN 0887282245, p 147

Bucolonpolis (strabo XVI 2, 27)C. N. Johns, Denys Pringle (1997) Pilgrims' castle ('Atlit), David's Tower (Jerusalem), and Qal'atar-Rabad ('Ajlun): three Middle Eastern castles from the time of the crusades Publisher Variorum, ISBN 0860786277 p 51

First Crusades Castle (knights Templar) called Dustrey (corruption of District or Destroit) at Khirbet Qarta inland built in 1118 (Demolished during the siege of 1220). New Castle built on the promontory called variously Chateau Pelerin and Castrum Peregrinorum (castle of the pilgrims) in 1218-1220 AD. Claude R. Conder (1878) Tent Work in Palestine: A Record of Discovery and Adventure; Reprinted (2002) Publisher Adamant Media Corporation, ISBN 1402189877 p 199

The Atlit fortress was used by the Templars to dominate a large area of Galilee until Baybars repaired the Fortress of Qaqun as his "subjects in that place needed a place of protection." The Templars dominance declined until the Templars finally quit and left for Rhodes in 1291. Kristian Molin (2001) Unknown crusader castles Publisher Continuum International Publishing Group, ISBN 1852852615 p 70. Atlit Fortress was repaired and held by the Mamlukes after the crusaders left for Rhodes.

Atlit was one of the harbours where pilgrims landed in the 13th century and was mistakenly referred to as the site of ancient Tyre. Claude R. Conder (1878) p 200

1296 a Tatar tribe, the 'Uwayrat were settle in the area

During the Ottoman era, Atlit provided a source of good building materials and the governors of Haifa, Acre and Beirut used the hewn stone of Atlit in building their respective cities. Carl Ritter Translated by William Leonard Gage (1866) The comparative geography of Palestine and the Sinaitic Peninsula, Volume 4 Publisher D. Appleton and co. [printed at Edinburgh], p 285

In spring of 1799 the port served as one of the French navy ports during Napoleon's failed expedition to conquer Acre.

Survey of Western Palestine described a hamlet of adobe bricks with about 200 Arab inhabitants.

In 1903 Baron Edmond de Rothschild sought a firman on a tract of land in the area of Atlit, to drain the swamps within a fixed period, from the Ottoman Governor of the Beirut District, the firman was never confirmed, as required by Ottoman Imperial edict, from Istanbul and was therefore never officially granted.

In July 1920 Rothschild approached the British Administration to procure a concession similar to the Firman he had sought from the Ottoman Governor of Beirut. The Land Commission recommended granting the PICA’s request in the form of a long-term lease, including the provision for establishing a Jewish settlement. On 8 November, 1921, Abramson and PICA representatives finalized the agreement. It granted the PICA a one-hundred-year renewable lease to approximately 40-50,000 dunams, along with rights to "improve and develop" the marshland and sand dunes included therein. ref: Lease Agreement of 8 November 1921, Israel State Archive (2) L/24/34 [G-92-1509(1207)] (1921); Gregory Blue, Martin P. Bunton and Ralph C. Croizier (2002) Colonialism and the modern world: selected studies Publisher M.E. Sharpe, ISBN 0765607727 p 155 note 35, at 149 n.15. As the area was not yet surveyed, it was impossible to know the exact area of land included in the agreement.

The lawyer Wadi Bourstany was then retained by the 850 indigenous inhabitants (Palestinian Bedouin of Zor al Zerka and Barrat Caesarea) to retain their land use rights, that had existed under the Ottomans and were documented in the Ottoman records. p 149

A Jewish settlement was established, the first Jewish inhabitants consisted of five families from Zichron Ya'acov. Atlit was not a prosperous Jewish settlement initially. It took another three years for six more families to join the initial five, by 1922 the Jewish settlement still only had 12 houses. A salt factory was established by a new immigrant from Russia in 1922.

In July 1924 the engineering works to drain the marshes and stabilise the sand dunes was initiated. Shortly afterwards the Bedouin of Zor al Zerka accepted compensation in relationship to the easement on land rights.

In 1928 court proceedings were initiated by the indigenous inhabitants (Palestinian Bedouin of Barrat Caesarea) to assert their rights of land use after protracted negotiations failed to produce a settlement.

The Pre-Pottery Neolithic Site of Atlit-Yam, Israeli Antiquities Authority [http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/989977.html Tsunami or melting glaciers: What caused ancient Atlit to sink? By Ofri Ilani Published Ha’aretz 4 June 2008]

7 October 1948 The Haifa District HQ issued orders to the 123 Battalion to halt all demolition activities at Atlit. Morris (2006) p 354.

Missing from Atlit detainee camp
Out of the approx 50 year history of Atlit detainee camp 40 years of that history are apparently missing.

In 1935 there were 250 members of the Nazi Party in Palestine, and in January 1938 the number had grown to 330 (17 percent of German nationals in Palestine). But the outbreak of World War II was the beginning of the end of Templer settlement in Palestine. The British government declared them enemy nationals, and they were placed under arrest in the colonies of Waldheim and Sharona, or were sent to the detention camp in Atlit. In the summer of 1941, 665 detainees were expelled to Australia, with 1,052 remaining in the detention camps in Palestine.

The nine lives of the Lorenz Cafe By Adi Schwartz Published Ha'aretz 20 January 2008

"Black Sabbath"  On June 29, 1946, 2,718 persons, 59 of whom were women, were placed in administrative detention in a nation wide British operation aimed at uncovering secret ammunition supplies. The detainees were taken to Atlit and then transferred, due to lack of space, to a makeshift detention camp in Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip. Among the prisoners were many leaders of the Jewish population in Palestine, including Rabbi Y.L. Fishman, Acting Chairman of the Board of the Jewish Agency, David Remez, Chairman of the National Committee, and Bernard Joseph and Yitzhak Greenbaum, members of the Board of the Jewish Agency

In 1948 Atlit detainee camp operated as a POW camp and civil internment camp. Some of the interned Palestinians were held for as long a seven years. The normal offer was release and be driven over the Jordanian border or remain incarcerated. (see Ayn Hawd, Abu Hayja remained incarcerated until released with right of residency in Israel where he became a DP within Israel but was able to rejoin his family and started building Ein Hawd)

Morris, Benny, (second edition 2004 third printing 2006) The Birth Of The Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited, Cambridge University Press, ISBN 0-521-00967-7 p 467

To Mr. Dov Ben Alter Ha'adom, Abu Yusuf hello, I have received your letter today through a man from 'Ein Ghaza¯l regarding the engineer Etkes. Salomon, the lawyer from Haifa, also applied in this matter. Also, Mr. Hayyat of Haifa came and met the elders of Jaba' and promised to release five of the people the Jews captured in 'Atlit. Perhaps by tomorrow the exchange will be over and engineer Etkes will be released. He is in my home, healthy and well and honored as usual with the Arabs.

IDFA 4663/ 1949 file 46. The letter is dated 6 of July. The army document that quotes it is dated 10th of July.

Atlit camp was closed for a short period only to reopen as a POW camp for the 1967 war. Atlit camp, approx 5500 officers and soldiers Egyptian and Arab POWs interned after the 1967 war ... ref: False Israeli "Massacre" Story Resurrected Published CAMERA 4 March, 2007

Red Cross annual Review August 1967

Release of civilian prisoners at Atlith camp. -The ICRC delegation in Israel recently intervened on behalf of 40 Egyptian civilian prisoners interned at Atlith, released and repatriated on October 24 to El Arish and Gaza.

Red Cross annual Review December 1967

Simultaneously, the Israeli Government repatriated to Jordan the last prisoners of war still held at Atlith.[18-23 January 1968]

Relief Parcels to POW's. -For the fast of Ramadan, the delegation of the ICRC in Tel Aviv handed a parcel containing food, cigarettes, soap and one blanket to each of the 4,500 prisoners in Atlith camp, who were released shortly after.

Red Cross annual Review 1968

On 7 August 1968, the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs announced that all prisoners of war captured in June 1967 had been released and repatriated.

On 14 June 1967, ICRC delegates carried out their first visit to Atlith camp, which contained 6,120 men, including 5,611 prisoners of war. Two Egyptian prisoners of war were killed during incidents at Atlith Camp. (1 shot during riot 6 Nov 1967)

Red Cross annual Review 1970

214 Syrian POWs held at Atlit with shared facilities with Egyptian POWs.

Israel. Miśrad ha-biṭaḥon (1977) Facts & documents on the treatment of prisoners of war: Yom Kippur war, Syrian front Publisher	Ministry of Defence, Israel, pp 258 to 266

In October 1983 The ICRC was barred from visiting 700 to 800 prisoners who had been transferred from Ansar prison Lebanon to Atlit prison in September of that year. The ICRC protested to the Minister of Defense against this violation of the IV Geneva Convention. The detainees had been visited 3 times during September and October, prior to the ICRC being barred from pursuing its protection activities. ref: International committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) and David C. Wills (2003) The first war on terrorism: counter-terrorism policy during the Reagan administration Publisher Rowman & Littlefield, ISBN 0742531295 p 90.

Internment camp during the Israeli war on Lebanon PRISON: Atlit Townsfolk Are Bitter - Atlit Prison--an Israel Fixture - Townsfolk Bitter About Plan to Free 31 Muslims By Dan Fisher Published LA Times 24 June, 1985

see also Ayalon prison in Ramleh and Ketziot detention center, Negev.

Israel and the anti-Semitic canard
Finance Minister: UN backing of Goldstone report is `anti-Semitic` By Haaretz Service Published Ha’aretz 18 October 2009

Lest we forget Judge Goldstone is also a Jew, therefore not supporting the Goldstone report could also, using the same logic as the Israeli Finance Minister, be called anti-Semitic. Actually more so, seeings as Goldstone is 100% Jewish while Israel is less than 75% Jewish.

Military History
Haim Levenberg (1993) Military preparations of the Arab community in Palestine, 1945-1948 Publisher Routledge, ISBN 0714634395 p 127 al-Najjada

Land Use
Martin P. Bunton (2007) Colonial land policies in Palestine, 1917-1936 Publisher Oxford University Press, ISBN 0199211086

Michael R. Fischbach (2003) Records of dispossession: Palestinian refugee property and the Arab-Israeli conflict Publisher Columbia University Press, ISBN 0231129785

Culture
Margarita Skinner (2007) Palestinian embroidery motifs: a treasury of stitches 1850-1950 Publisher Melisende, ISBN 1901764478

An absolute MUST READ
Constantin-François Volney (1788) Travels through Syria and Egypt, in the years 1783, 1784, and 1785: Containing the present natural and political state of those countries, their productions, arts, manufactures, and commerce; with observations on the manners,customs, and government of the Turks and Arabs. Publisher printed for G.G.J. and J. Robinson.

Volney describes the area called by the inhabitants Falastin. (p 327)

Chapter on Palestine, ch 31. P 328 to 357


 * Heh, I came across him, ages ago, writing about Daher el-Omar (Volney wrote the first (European) biography on him.) My favorite quote: "one may pass one´s whole lifetime in learning a great deal, and knowing nothing" p.447 Cheers! Huldra (talk) 00:42, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes Volney did a fair piece on Acre, politics background etc. he remarks quite a bit about French factories all over the Levant but not much about the Levant company who were more active...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 02:09, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ah yes, but I think many Western writer *used* the Middle East to say something about their own world ...like Miller used the Salem Witch Hunt to say something about his McCartny USA. Anyway; according to Said ("Orientalism") ..Volney was a "textbook" for conquering the MiddleEast...a textbook that apparently Napoleon studied extensively! ...think about that, and the N´s slaughter at Jaffa---, when you read it. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 10:49, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

I did note the date of publication and the date of the Napoleonic invasion also that Volney was part of Napoleons government...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 18:52, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

District/Sub-District
Michael R. Fischbach (2003) Records of dispossession: Palestinian refugee property and the Arab-Israeli conflict Publisher Columbia University Press, ISBN 0231129785 p 5 using Nijim, Basheer K (1984) Toward the de-Arabization of Palestine/Israel 1945-1977 Publisher Kendall/Hunt Pub. Co. for the Jerusalem Fund for Education and Community Development ISBN 0-8403-3299-8

Note: on the re-organisation of Northern Palestine during the British mandate period.

'On the 14th July [1937] for the purposes of administrative convenience the Northern District, which comprised the Phoenicia, Galilee and Samaria divisions, was reorganized as two Districts: the Haifa sub-districts (urban and rural) and the Samaria division remained under the District Commissioner, Haifa, and a new Galilee District comprising the Galilee Division and the Acre sub-district was created with Headquarters at Nazareth. The two Districts are called "Haifa and Samaria" and "Galilee and Acre" respectively.'

Report by His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League Of Nations on the Administration of Palestine and Trans-Jordan for the Year 1937.

Beit HaShita
In July 1948 the area of Beit haShita was extended with the acquisition of 5,400 dunums from the Palestinian Arab villages of Yubla and al-Murassas.

Michael R. Fischbach (2003) Records of dispossession: Palestinian refugee property and the Arab-Israeli conflict Publisher Columbia University Press, ISBN 0231129785 p 13

Hagana/Irgun/Stern Gang cooperation coordination
October/November 1945

[quote]Just before my departure, one of the commanders of the Haganah (the Jewish self-defense organization) asked me to tell our friends in London of a tentative agreement with the dissidents in the Yishuv which would place them under central discipline and thus prevent complete chaos and terrorist dominance in its more devastating forms. The man asserted that he had succeeded in getting the extremists to accept public authority and that they would henceforth obey his orders. But he admitted that the agreement would be observed only if it led to a physical clash with the Mandatory Power. According to him, it was "an agreement to take action, and not an agreement to prevent it."

Horowitz, David (1953) State in the making. (Bi-shelihut medinah noledet) translated from the Hebrew by Julian Meltzer Publisher ALFRED A. KNOPF p 4[unquote]

[quote]The first reports came through of attacks in all parts of the country, against the railroad system and at the Lydda rail-junction, in Haifa Harbor, and elsewhere. It was a very wide front and the British deduced, from the reports and spot information, that Haganah had participated in the large-scale operation and co-operated with the dissident groups.

Dr. Weizmann and Moshe Shertok were summoned to an interview with Ernest Bevin, the Foreign Secretary. They found him in wrathful and indignant mood. He upbraided them harshly and revealed that information in his possession showed this to have been a joint operation between Haganah and terrorist groups. In his view, the action taken was a declaration of war against Britain and he would employ the utmost measures to counter it.

Horowitz, David (1953) State in the making. (Bi-shelihut medinah noledet) translated from the Hebrew by Julian Meltzer Publisher ALFRED A. KNOPF p 16[unquote]

note: The Ernest Bevin evidence was bound into a "white paper" and duly presented to the UN.

HRW in Israel
Rights Watchdog, Lost in the Mideast By ROBERT L. BERNSTEIN Published new York Times 19 October 2009

note: The disturbing part of Bernstein’s article is that he does not refute any of the claims made by HRW but merely that he disagrees with the presence of HRW in a “democratic country” and quite candidly remarks that the foundations of HRW was as an anti-Soviet and anti-PRC (China) political movement. Bernstein's assessment of the "Israeli free press" in the article is an assessment of the world press and omits that the world press is denied access to incidents such as the Israeli war against Gazans where the press was denied access to the Gaza strip from November 2008.

Comment / Human Rights Watch applies same standards to Israel, Hamas By Kenneth Roth, Haaretz Correspondent Published Ha'aretz 27 October 2009

Nakba Denial and Competing Historiographies.
The official Israeli narrative mirrors the widely accepted North American founding myth of manifest destiny where settlers bring civilisation and economic advancement to a backward sparsely populated savage land.

The Nakba – Something that Did Not Occur (although it had to occur) Written by Eitan Bronstien Published Badil This article first appeared in Haq al-Awda (May 2004). Translation from Hebrew by Ingrid Jaradat Gassner.

Labor Min. to Lieberman: Nakba bill sullies Israel's image By Haaretz Service Published 19 July 2009

Denial and the future of peace By Ghada Karmi Published Al Ahram weekly 6-12 April 2000

[http://www.economist.com/books/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14492406 Distilled history review of Israel and Palestine: Reappraisals, Revisions, Refutations. By Avi Shlaim Published Economist 24 September 2009]

Israel and Palestine: Reappraisals, Revisions, Refutations by Avi Shlaim Review by Ian Black Published Guardian 24 October 2009

Why Palestinians are the modern Sioux by Ian Gilmour review of Baruch Kimmerling and Joel S. Migdal's The Palestinian People Published Guardian 8 June 2003

Everything else can be denied. It can always be said that photographs of civilians killed were fabricated. The Palestinians' accounts can be dismissed as lies, intrigues of Hamas, embellishment or, at best, facts taken out of context since Gazans are, after all, afraid of what Hamas would do to them if they told the truth.

Amira Hass / The one thing worse than denying the Gaza report By Amira Hass, Haaretz Correspondent Published Ha'aretz 17 September 2009

Invented History
[quote]Thus, for example, the Jews who acquired the home of the respected al Madi family in the village of Ijzim say that the house was a splendid Crusader castle; its present inhabitants are unable to believe that such a splendid structure was built by Arabs.

Benvenisti, Meron (2002) Sacred Landscape; the Buried History of the Holy Land Since 1948 University of California Press ISBN 0-520-23422-7 p 169[unquote]

The Sabra tradition in Israeli society plays an important part in the lies and half truths Israel uses to excuse its behaviour.

a nation that “gets by,” that worships those who are best at “getting by”: Those who successfully cut as many corners as possible; those who know how to extract the most from the system; and mainly, those who don’t get caught. And if they are caught—get away with it.... A nation of people who want to do as they please. Who have found themselves a new philosophy that permits no one to judge them.

The Sabra's Lawless Legacy By Assaf Sagiv

Israel and Democracy
Survey: Israel yet to grasp concept of democracy By Mazal Mualem Published Ha'aretz 16 may 2003

Needs a title
The old Zionist rhetoric surfaces continually how Jewish enterprises made an economic miracle in Palestine. This is a look at the veracity of the Zionist rhetoric of being a immigration magnate to Palestinian Arabs and how Jewish economic stimulus, Jewish Doctors and Jewish engineering benefited the Palestinian Arabs?

Of all the studies carried out not one (Baruch Kimmerling, Gershon Shafir, Charles Kamen and Anita Shapira) has verified the British colonial and Jewish Zionist rhetoric that Jewish settlement aided palestinian Arab development. All the studies have shown that the reverse was the fact and that Jewish settlement stifled Palestinian Arab economic development and institution building. The much quote phase about Jewish settlement aiding development was in fact a British colonial dream of "bringing western civilisation to the natives" and then reiterated in Zionist discourse as though fact.

"Jewish settlement, and in particular the Zionist policy of exclusiveness, hindered Arab economic development." ref; Charles Samuel Kamen (1991) Little Common Ground: Arab Agriculture and Jewish Settlement in Palestine, University of Pittsburgh Press, ISBN 0822936682 p 271

I had already met Robert Nathan and Oscar Gass, two foremost Washington economists, prior to their appearance before the committee, and had discussed with them the questions likely to be raised. Bob Nathan's exposition of Palestine economy led to some keen interrogation on Jewish labor, the clause in the Jewish National Fund charter prohibiting employment of Arab labor on its land, the agrarian problems and Jewish relations with the Arabs. The British chairman, Sir John E. Singleton, was the most persistent. Richard Grossman caused great surprise by asking: "Would the revolution you are carrying out in the social-economic sphere be possible under a foreign regime?"

Horowitz, David (1953) State in the making. (Bi-shelihut medinah noledet) translated from the Hebrew by Julian Meltzer Publisher ALFRED A. KNOPF p 37.

note agrarian problem, ie the kibbutz were loss making and these loss making enterprises only employed Jewish labour. The Kibbutz losses were so large that the mandate of Palestine tax receipts dropped.

[quote]The first Aliya wave of immigration to the land of Israel was in crisis, having lost faith in the enterprise. Farmers of the relatively sound, orchard based Jewish colonies on the coastal plain upped and left the country by the dozens. Many in Palestine's new jewish Yishuv lent an avid ear to the Uganda plan (the idea of establishing a Jewish colony in East Africa under British protection), for who knew better than they how arduous it was to settle the land of Israel. Shapira, Anita. Yigal Allon; Native Son; A Biography Translated by Evelyn Abel, University of Pennsylvania Press ISBN 978-0-8122-4028-3 p 4[unquote]

How many self-supporting kibbutz were there?

[quote]Mainly, he [Rothschild] motivated by the colonies stagnation: after eighteen years of hard work and huge investment-estimated at £1.6 million-they were still not self sufficient.Shapira, Anita. Yigal Allon; Native Son; A Biography Translated by Evelyn Abel, University of Pennsylvania Press ISBN 978-0-8122-4028-3 p 7.[unquote]

Selfsupporting Zionist settlements.In the Memorandum submitted by the Jewish Agency, at page 24, the following is written : " Those settlements which have received their full equipment from the KerenHayesod are now selfsupporting. The other settlements that have not yet received their full settlement loan are most of them by now very near to the stage of being ' selfsupporting.' In this connection we mean by the term ' selfsupporting ' that the ordinary farm expenditure and living expenditure, including renovation, but not including depreciation, nor repayment of settlement loan, nor rent (which is not yet payable), are covered by the ordinary farm income. In this sense the following settlements in the valley of Esdraelon are already selfsupporting, viz., Nahalal, Ginegar, Balfouria, Kfar Yeheskiel."

Hope Simpson report on Immigration, Land Settlement and Development October, 1930.

From a Memorandum submitted by the Jewish Agency, who are trying to paint the kibbutz in the best light possible, KerenHayesod had managed a grand total of four "self-supporting" kibbutz by 1930, so long as you didn’t ask for the rent or repayment on loans, which is rather stretching the definition of self-supporting.

So what did the British authorities say about the four self-supporting colonies?

The Consolidation Budget.By the courtesy of Dr. Kuppin, statements were submitted bringing up to date the information contained in Table I printed on page 72 of the Experts' Report, This table gives, among other information, the amount of the " Consolidation Budget," that is, the amount still necessary to complete the settlement of each colony. From the statements it appears that for Nahalal (which is described in the Memorandum as " selfsupporting ") a sum of £10,000 is still required, for Ginegar the sum is £23,000, for Balfouria, £3,500.

Kfar Yeheskiel : Cost o/ Settlement. Only in the case of Kfar Yeheskiel can the colony be said to be selfsupporting, and in the modified sense of that word used in the Memorandum. This colony contained 59 families, in 1930. In the statement on p. 72 of the Experts' Report the cost of the land for this colony and its amelioration was shown at $342,090, say £70,389. In the statement now submitted the cost of the equipment is shown as £63,935 in addition. The total expenditure of settling 59 families is, therefore, £134,329, an average of £2,277 per family.

KerenHayesod : Budget.In view of the continuing necessity for expenditure on existing colonies it is remarkable to find that in the year 1928-1929 the budget of the KerenHayesod for agricultural colonisation fell from £167,090 of the previous year, to £93,123, while at the same time the expenditure on urban colonisation rose from £4,747 to £91,949.

Further, there is at present a plan in preparation with the object of placing one thousand families of labourers on the land. The following is an extract from the Report of the Palestine Jewish Agency, published in the " Palestine Weekly " of July 4th, 1930 :

" . . . . It is also a matter of common knowledge that at the last meeting of the Administrative Committee of the Jewish Agency, which took place in London, it was resolved to settle one thousand families of workers, by means of extra budgetary funds, in the vicinity of the big plantation colonies. The plan is still in the preparatory stage . . . ."

Hope Simpson report on Immigration, Land Settlement and Development October, 1930.

And that is about four "self-supporting" colonies after 40 to 50 years of colonisation by Jewish immigrants.

The British authorities estimate of "self-supporting" kibbutz is one and only in a limited sense of the word used in the Jewish agency's Memorandum. Could it be said the kibbutz were successful as an Arab magnate when the kibbutz hadn't even got to the "self-supporting level?

Petah Tikva, the largest of these colonies, resembled a small town in Lithuania. Zikhon Yaakov and various colonies in Galilee were similar in style. Rishon le-Zion had a somewhat peculiar character, a mixture of Jewish hamlet and quasi-French manners, due to the influence of the officials of Baron Rothschild who lived there. Most of these colonies remained dependent on the baron’s assistance over a period of more than fifteen years, down to the turn of the century.

[...]

After the Baron Rothschild became involved in the enterprise and decided to support the colonies, which were threatened with extinction due to lack of capital[/b], he decided to implement monoculture cultivation in Palestine, that is, a farm economy based on a single crop meant for marketing. The first crop that the colonies in Judea and Samaria (areas situated in the southern and northern coastal plain) specialised in was viticulture. Only at a later stage did they begin to develop the citrus branch, a field in which the Jaffa Arabs had already succeeded, having made a brand name of their oranges. Shapira, Anita (1999) Land and Power; The Zionist Resort to Force, 1881-1948. Stanford University press, ISBN 0-8047-3776-2 pp 56-57

What is also noticeable in Shapira's work is her Zionism. Here you have her saying that the Baron implements monoculture as though this was the first time monoculture was being developed to grow cash crops and yet in the next sentence you notice that Jaffa Arabs had already introduce monoculture into the region with orange groves that had already become a brand name. It is amazing how these supposedly "backward" "feudal" "impoverished" Palestinian Arabs developed the main export product of the region without any aid from the failing Jewish entrepreneurs. You'd have thought a successful industry would have been a better immigration magnate than failing Jewish kibbutz who employed Jewish only labour.

Were the kibbutz paying their way at all?

[quote]Results of Jewish Settlement.

The results of Jewish colonisation of the Vale of Esdraelon are varied. In some villages there are clear signs of success; in others, the opposite is the case. The village of Afuleh, which the American Zionist Commonwealth boomed as the Chicago of Palestine, is a sea of thistles through which one travels for long distances. A plague of field mice, which has done extensive damage to both Jewish and Arab cultivation in the Vale during the present year was officially stated to be due to the fact that 30,000 dunams of the land held by the Jews are derelict and covered with weeds. It is also a fact that in a number of villages the tithes paid by the Jews are considerably below those paid by the Arabs who formerly cultivated those villages.

[...]

Zionist settlements.The settlements of the Zionist organisation have not been in existence for as long a time as those of the P.I.C.A., and they work on different principles. The outstanding principle is " selflabour '', which implies that no settler shall have more land than the area he is able to cultivate by the unaided labour of himself and his family. In the case of the cooperative group, the area is determined by the amount which the group is able to cultivate without assistance. Notwithstanding the fact that the settlers receive a certain agricultural training as chalutzim " (i.e., pioneers) before arrival in Palestine, they are not by early training agriculturists. They are drawn from all walks of life. There is no lack of ardour or enthusiasm, and there can be no doubt that in time the settlements will be able to support the cultivators, especially in those districts where plantation is possible. [b]Meanwhile, there are few if any, of the settlements which are truly selfsupporting, and there appear to be none in which any payment has been made in respect of the outlay by the Jewish National Fund or the KerenHayesod.[/b] Hope Simpson report on Immigration, Land Settlement and Development October, 1930.

Kibbutz failing and empty kibbutz causing hardship to their neighbours.

Were the kibbutz, that were filled with people who were "not by early training agriculturists", a success? One also wonders how the watchmakers and silversmiths who had only just been taught which end of a spade goes into the ground are going to bring the most modern and up to date farming practises into Palestine.

We can always "ask the expert"

Immigration initially entails the obsolescence of skills acquired in the country of origin. The process of economic absorption involves learning the host country’s language, other specific skills of living, and on-the-job acquisition of skills. Mass immigration was associated with decline not only in level of education but also in the level of country specific skills.

Yoram Ben-Porath (1986) The Israeli economy: maturing through crises Publisher Harvard University Press, ISBN 0674468783 p 32

Experts' opinion as to completion of establishment. On page 40 of their Report the Experts wrote as follows :

" . . . . that no expenditure for planting new colonies should be made unless the development of existing colonies has been completed, or the money required for their full development has been provided. The amount required for this will absorb the probable normal income of the Colonisation Department for several years to come. Delay in providing settlers with needed equipment and improvements is now causing serious losses and disappointments. It is lowering the efficiency of the settlers, [b]it is the cause of large deficits, even in the older colonies,[/b] and is placing on the Zionist Organisation, rather than on the settlers, the responsibility for making the colonies self-sustaining . . . . "Hope Simpson report on Immigration, Land Settlement and Development October, 1930.

And this is in 1930 when the JFN Zionist Kibbutz were still not financially viable, the returns to the government in taxes were still less than that paid by the supposedly "backward" Palestinian farmers who had previously worked the same land.

Funny, how reading the actual documents that Joan Peters and Deshowitz refer to, you form a completely different picture to theirs. The Hope Simpson report agrees more with Shapira and Gershon's findings. Shapira and Gershon are both Zionists to the core by the way and not even called "self hating Jews".

Would someone please try to explain how poor Jewish failing farms, who couldn't pay their own way and employed Jewish only labour, could possibly be a magnet for Palestinian Arabs? Because, to me, portraying 59 families of Kfar Yeheskiel, who were only just self supporting in a modified sense, as being an "Arab" magnate is preposterous.

HEALTH.

At the time of the Occupation Palestine was a country saturated with malaria. Since that time much good work has been done, not only by agencies of the country, but also with the help of outside scientific enquirers. The Rockefeller Foundation, the League of Nations, the Jewish Joint Distribution Committee have all rendered invaluable assistance in investigation, in research and in advice. Very much has been done in the drainage of swamps and marshes, in great part by Jewish agency and in great part by the Government. The Supreme Moslem Council has also taken a share, and its work in the drainage of the extensive and very malarial swamp at Wadi Rubin, under the advice of representatives of the Rockefeller Foundation, has been a complete success. A similar work of even greater magnitude which is now nearing completion is the drainage of the Kabbara Swamp by the P.I.C.A. The Zionist Agency was responsible, among other works, for the drainage of considerable areas in the Vale of Esdraelon. The Government Department of Health revolutionised certain areas of the Jordan Valley at comparatively small cost, by draining of marshes.

[...]

It is the good fortune of the Government that Jewish organisations provide such an effective service for their own people. It would be impracticable for the Government to supply anything on a similar scale with the funds at its disposal. In its report* for the year 1928 on the administration of Palestine, submitted to the Council of the League, His Majesty's Government wrote the following : " It has been the policy of Government to rely as far as possible on private and Municipal Hospitals and Dispensaries to furnish general medical relief to the population, and to devote Government funds to such services as isolation hospitals for serious infectious diseases, special clinics for trachoma and epidemic ophthalmia, the treatment of the endemic syphilis which exists in many of the villages and of malaria in rural areas. For certain sections of the population, however, such as the Beduin tribes, which would otherwise lack medical attention altogether, Government establish special clinics, and circumstances arise from time to time in which assistance to voluntary organisation for general assistance is necessary."

Hope Simpson report on Immigration, Land Settlement and Development October, 1930.

Could the British government setting up isolation hospitals for serious infectious diseases have more to do with population increase than any failing Jewish kibbutz? Zionist rhetoric fails at even a cursory inspection. As Yoshua Porath remarked the rhetoric of the early Zionists is extremist and that no reputable academic would touch it with a barge pole. The Jewish settlements were impoverished subsistence farms and required large injections of cash.

Benefits to the indigenous Palestinian Arab population?

[quote]The plain fact is that the interests of the 850 bona fide citizens permanently settled are not at all taken into account in this concession, the benefits of which are exclusively limited to the JCA. Gregory Blue, Martin P. Bunton and Ralph C. Croizier (2002) Colonialism and the modern world: selected studies Publisher M.E. Sharpe, ISBN 0765607727 p 149[unquote]

For  T i a m u t  on Demographics of Palestine the regurgitation of J Peters and Dershowitz copies of early Zionist rhetoric is probably why you found the article as highly POV. The truth of the Kibbutz economy is that achieved profitability only after the 1980s when many were "privatised", the degree of self support(let alone profitability) was only achieved by adopting Palestinian Arab methods of citiculture.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 00:44, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

A strange reference:

According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".ref. Gilbert, 2005, p. 16.

erh. Gilbert wrote Churchill and America in 2005. So why that ref? Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 22:49, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Nothing on page 16 of Gilbert (2005) says anything of Palestinian demographics. Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 22:57, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

2 Tier Israeli Justice
It has been noted that a dual legal system is in operation in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. The Special Committee to Investigate Israeli Practices affecting the Human Rights of the Population of the Occupied Territories report states that there is a "marked double standard of justice' in the occupied territories, "one aimed at the civilian Arab population characterized by its harshness and arbitrariness, and another aimed at the Israeli settlers characterized by connivance and permissiveness'. Recourse to judicial remedies by the civilian population, the report states, "has not provided any firm or long lasting safeguard of the interests of the civilian population. The judicial authorities appear to be completely subjected to the discretion vested in the military occupation authorities.' Israel has set up a parallel set of legal regimes where Palestinians are controlled under IDF military directives and pre-1967 Jordanian law, while the settlers are covered by the "Emergency Regulations (Offenses in the Occupied Territories - Jurisdiction and Legal Assistance), 5727-1967". Palestinians are tried in military courts where guarantees of civil rights are absent in the military justice system. Settlers in the Occupied Territories live in areas that are subject to military rule and although the settlements have not been formally annexed, Israel has applied a substantial part of Israeli law to the settlers. As a result, Israeli civilians living in the Occupied Territories are not subject to military or local law but are prosecuted in Israeli civilian courts and are guaranteed civil rights under Israeli civil law. By being subject to the Israeli judicial system, settlers enjoy liberties and legal guarantees that are denied Palestinian defendants in the Occupied Territories charged with similar offenses. The authority to arrest an individual, the maximum detention before being brought before a judge, the right to meet with an attorney, the protections available to defendants at the trial, the maximum punishment allowed by law, and the release of prisoners before completion of sentence - all of these differ greatly in the dual Legal systems. Settlers enjoy rights that Palestinians are denied.

The Special Committee pointed out that the Karp Report, dealing with the acts of violence of Israeli settlers and their impunity, was illustrative of the problem. Mrs. Yehudit Karp, Deputy-Attorney General of Israel, resigned from her post as Chairman of a committee of the Israeli Ministry of Justice established to investigate "anti-Arab vigilantism' by the Jewish settlers in the West Bank. The reason for her resignation was reported to be the absence of any action on the recommendations made by her committee.

Palestinians Behind Bars with No Recourse to Justice By Christoph Schult Published der Spiegel 23 October 2009

Employment Law
Ma'aleh Adumim is considered by the Israeli government to be an Israeli city except when Palestinian labour is employed by the city.

Segregation
By relegating power to local councils racist segregation legislation is avoided, while maintaining racial segregation in Israeli communities.

ref
Raphael Cohen confessed that he held one of the protestors in place, dragged him violently, slapped him, and pulled him by his underwear. The evacuation of the outpost, which was near the settlement of Hashmonaim, took place two years ago.

VIDEO / Border Policeman admits beating rightist at West Bank outpost By Chaim Levinson, Haaretz Correspondent Published Ha’aretz 19 October 2009

in stark contrast to:-

PCHR Hebron and Bethlehem field worker beaten and detained by Israeli forces Press release Published PCHR 26 October 2009

Video / State won't prosecute officers filmed beating Palestinians By Liel Kyzer, Haaretz Correspondent Published Ha'aretz 21 October 2009

Who cares they’re only Palestinians by Greg Barns 14 July 2008

Yesh Din Report Law Enforcement upon Israeli Civilians in the OPT: Yesh Din Monitoring

Yesh Din Report Too Little too Late

[quote]In addition to its decision on outposts, the cabinet ordered a ministerial committee headed by Defense Minister Ehud Barak to submit recommendations within two weeks on how to tighten law enforcement, including by taking action against civil servants who facilitate illegal outpost construction.

Most of the meeting, however, was devoted to ministerial tirades against violent settlers and attempts by security and law enforcement agencies to pass blame.

Public Security Minister Avi Dichter said that about one-tenth of Israel's total police force is already in the West Bank, and that it is impossible to transfer additional forces there, other than temporarily for specific missions. He also said that lenient sentencing by the courts deters the police from pursuing indictments "even when they have a suspect in hand."

Settlers preparing for war, says Shin Bet chief By Aluf Benn, Haaretz Correspondent Published Ha'aretz 3 November 2008

Language used in IP conflict
tautology:-

Investigating the IDF would be the real war crime By Shahar Ilan Published Ha'aretz 27 October 2009

This particular Israeli Government document is laughably insane:-

2. Implementation of the Agreements during the Period 1995-2008 – Review As stated, the JWC is charged with implementation of the Water Agreement. This committee has been working for the past 13 years almost without interruption, even during difficult periods of security problems. The committee meets on a regular basis and approves the construction and development of water supply and sewage installations throughout the West Bank. A scrutiny of the minutes of the committee's meetings shows that the committee approved nearly all the projects that were submitted for its approval, even beyond the obligatory ones included in the Water Agreement. The few projects that were not approved were those that were not in accordance with the Water Agreement, relating mostly to the drilling of new Palestinian wells in the northern and western basins of the Mountain Aquifer. Some of the projects, including the drilling of water wells, have not yet been executed by the Palestinians because of their orders of priority regarding the utilization of funds from donor countries.

The Issue of Water between israel and Palestinians Published State of Israel, Water Authority, March 2009

notice, one the use of "West Bank" and not "Judea and Samaria", two the rubber stamping of Jewish Israeli settlement water projects along side the denial of Palestinian water projects. A wonderful use of propaganda techniques used by the Israeli Government, the Israeli squatters in the West Bank have become, for water use issues, Palestinians.

[quote]Residents of the settlement of Shvut Rachel clashed with Palestinians picking olives in the northern West Bank on Tuesday, after the settlers held a march to protest the "security threat" posed by the harvest.

The settlers, who were joined by residents of nearby illegal outposts, said the Palestinian harvesters were a threat because could gather intelligence and launch attacks from the olive groves.

"If they harvest near us, then we'll be near them," one of the settlers said as they headed out for the march.

VIDEO / Settlers clash with Palestinian 'security threat' olive growers By Avi Issacharoff and Anshel Pfeffer, Haaretz Correspondents Published Ha’aretz 27 October 2009[unquote]

In any democratic country this would be described as an attack by ultra Nationalist and religious fanatics on crop pickers, in the Israeli press its a clash between Settlers and Palestinian.

Which came first the chicken or the egg
In the first incident of the new year. Under the cover of darkness on the early morning of Tuesday 15 January 2008 in a cross border raid an elite unit of the Israeli IDFs Golani Brigade entered the neighborhoods of Saajiye and Zeitoun in Gaza City, and was opposed by Hamas fighters. In the ensuing firefight 19 Palestinians were killed.

At first light, Palestinian gunmen were seen in the area and they were attacked by the IDF unit, resulting in a gun battle that lasted most of the day.

At approximately 8:30 A.M., the air force targeted a vehicle moving in the area of the fighting with five gunmen. At about 9 A.M., the air force attacked another group of Palestinians preparing to fire mortars at the IDF troops in the area.

At 9:45, a Palestinian sniper shot and killed a volunteer from Ecuador who was working in a potato field near Kibbutz Ein Hashlosha.

Hamas: End Gaza raids or Shalit will become another Ron Arad By Amos Harel, Yuval Azoulay, Avi Issacharoff and Jack Khoury, Haaretz Correspondents Published Ha'aretz 17 January 2008

and what did the IDF military spokesperson say:-

"The same sources said that, at this stage, the Israel Defense Forces and the Shin Bet do not consider the senior figures in Hamas as targets, and stressed that the Hamas militants killed Tuesday lost their lives in fighting with IDF forces or because they had been targeted while they tried to launch rocket and mortar attacks against Israeli towns." [even after the report clearly states that the mortars were being set up to lay down fire on an invading Golani unit]

I suppose the universal right of self defence (which Palestinians also have) never ever crossed the IDF spokes-person's tiny mind or that the rockets and snipping incident only occurred after the IDFs raid?

Incorrect usage of the term Palestinian.
Immanuel Kant’s use of the term Palestinian when referring to Ashkenazic Jews in Europe was to distinguish none assimilationists from assimilationists and had nothing what so ever to do with living in Palestine and had everything to do with the wider debate within Ashkenazic society on whether to assimilate or retain the “old eastern ways”.

Water
Israeli gov re-release of march reply to World bank report

[quote]The news editor knows, for example, that there are around 300,000 settlers and not 450,000 (if only there were) - guzzling rogues that they are of the Palestinians' water (some may say the blood). The motive for the Israeli media's extensive coverage of lies that besmirch their country is not very different from the motive of the foreign organizations themselves: undermining Israel's moral standing in its own eyes and those of the world.

Comment / Claims Israel deprives Palestinians of water are groundless By Israel Harel published ha'aretz 29 October 2009 [unquote]

Issy is absolutely correct there are not 450,000 settlers in the West bank, there are 470,000 squatters.

Links that should be included within Water supply and sanitation in the Palestinian territories:- Nader Al-Khateeb and Friends of the Earth Middle East

Maps and Israel?
Now what is the normal Israeli complaint about Palestinian maps?

JPost's Map of what it calls Israel.

I wonder where the green line is? I wonder if Jpost knows where the international boundary between Syria and Israel is?

Hello, you made some edits on maps of Israel including on the page about Mamre. I noticed from here that the site where Abraham came to set up his tents to camp would be on the Western side of Death Sea. There are many evidences that Sodom was on this place in Sound of Arad including a Ziggurat near Mount S'dom. However Bible Atlas is placing Sodom, Gomorrah and most important Zoar that we can use as reference on the Easter place. On this place there are at least seven green plains along small affluence suitable for pasture. This should be taken in consideration or the director of Biblos most be contacted to fix his map. Best Regards. --FlorinCB (talk) 17:19, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

What's the difference between J Street and AIPAC?
An Israeli friend, with whom I had both debated and worked during the 90s, commented on this Arab presence. She remarked that it was ironic that J Street was being attacked by hardliners because a few Arab Americans had contributed to the group, and some Arabs attended their function, at the very moment when these same hardliners are saying that the Arab world must reach out and declare their interest in peace. They say, she went on, "we have no partners" but here are the partners, and yet they criticize us. I think, she concluded, they don't want partners.

Huffington post

pause for thought...Hmm.

IDF logic
Being born Bedouin means that your security clearance is not high enough to be a real Israeli but being born in a foreign country can make a real Israeli.

Ethiopians replace Bedouin as IDF trackers at Dimona nuclear site By Anshel Pfeffer, Haaretz Correspondent Published Ha'aretz 1 November 2009

Truth Lies and ADL Director Abraham H Foxman
Abraham H.Foxman, ADL’s national director, declared; In a letter to Ann M. Veneman, Executive Director of UNICEF, the ADL questioned the decision and its timing, noting that "the fund has a history of accepting aid from other questionable partners, including the International Islamic Relief Organization, which was designated as a terrorist organization by the US because of its links to Al Qaeda."

UNICEF called to reconsider decision to reject donations from Jewish philanthropist Published European Jewish Press (EJP)

Not quite the truth Mr Foxman. How can we tell? Easy go to the US Treasury Department web site.

United States Department of the Treasury International Islamic Relief Organization-related Designations:

The U.S. Department of the Treasury today designated the Philippine and Indonesian branch offices of the Saudi-based International Islamic Relief Organization (IIRO) for facilitating fundraising for al Qaida and affiliated terrorist groups. Treasury additionally designated Abd Al Hamid Sulaiman Al-Mujil, the Executive Director of the Eastern Province Branch of IIRO in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

US Department of the Treasury press release; Treasury Designates Director, Branches of Charity Bankrolling Al Qaida Network.

And it also helps if you read books.

Jeanne K. Giraldo, Harold A. Trinkunas (2007) Terrorism financing and state responses: a comparative perspective Publisher Stanford University Press, ISBN 0804755663 pp 119-120

Sorry but 2 people and two branches does not make the other 18 US designated terrorist organisations.

[quote]The IIRO was established in 1978 and, according to its website, the organization has branch offices in over 20 countries in Africa, Europe, Asia, and the Middle East.[unquote]

Does this mean that ADL should be downgraded to none RS?

Economic pressure within the DMZ to pressure and evict Palestinians
Morris (2004) p 513. for water in Jordan basin (the bit that J removed to be reinserted) Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 13:44, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Donalsville louisiana
secular use of religious establishments.

William Frankel (1988) Survey of Jewish affairs Publisher Fairleigh Dickinson Univ Press, ISBN 0838633439 p 157

Al-'Abbasiyya Pappé, Ilan, (reprint 2007) The ethnic cleansing of Palestine, Oneworld Publications Limited, ISBN 978-1-85168-467-0 p 219

Sagunto Morvedre towns main mosque converted into the church of Sant Maria, ref Mark D. Meyerson (2004) Jews in an Iberian frontier kingdom: society, economy, and politics in Morvedre, 1248-1391 Publisher BRILL, ISBN 9004137394 p 30

Trash article Palestinian views of the peace process in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict
How can you tell it's trash...because the second sentence Likud says..Since when was Likud an authentic spokesperson for palestinian views? had it been in a separate section of world views of Palestinians views.

Syrian wine for those who think it's all about Israel.
Wines of Syria

Many do not associate wine with Syria because it's mostly desert and it's a Muslim country. However, 10% of the population is Christian (Greek Orthodox, Armenian, Catholic, Maronite) and therefore does not see alcohol as prohibited. Syrian wine is produced in Aleppo, Cortas, St. Simeon, Cuvee Speciale, NV, and Homs. It was an important Roman and Byzantine province and, later, was crisscrossed by caravans on the Silk Route from China. The Syria vines used for Madeira, Orange Muscat.

James Halliday (2006) Wine Atlas of Australia Publisher University of California Press, ISBN 0520250311, p 302 John Adlum (1823) A memoir on the cultivation of the vine in America, and the best mode of making wine Publisher Printed by Davis and Force, 1823 p 141

Syria has a long and illustrious past in viticulture and associated wine making.

Andrew Dalby (2000) Empire of pleasures: luxury and indulgence in the Roman world Publisher Routledge, ISBN 0415186242 p 168-169

Merton Sandler and Roger Pinder (2003) Wine: a scientific exploration Publisher CRC Press, ISBN 0415247349 p 58

Henri Pirenne (2001) Mohammed and Charlemagne Publisher Courier Dover Publications, ISBN 0486420116 p 88

Patrick E. McGovern (2003) Ancient wine: the search for the origins of viniculture Publisher Princeton University Press, ISBN 0691070806 p 183

Charles Philip Issawi (1988) The Fertile Crescent, 1800-1914: a documentary economic history Publisher Oxford University Press US, p 65-66

volume of production Red wine 594000 gallons White wine 105600 " Sweet wine 145200 " Arrack 6864 (they ain't gonna like this ref) ref:Arthur Ruppin, Nellie Straus (1918) Syria: an economic survey Publisher The Provisional Zionist committee, p 63,end ref

At the turn of the 20th century the area of Homs contained many vineyards. ref Henry Frederick Lutz (1922) Viticulture and brewing in the ancient orient Publisher J.C. Hinrich, p 32

Modern wineries in Syria

Cortas Winery

Domaine de Bargylus, Lattakia wiki article Château Bargylus, unfortunately nobody has put it in Cat:Syrian wines

The viticulture regions of Syria are Aleppo and Homs.

Caroline Camarra (1990) The world of wine Publisher Mallard Press, ISBN 0792452313 p 249

What does Cyprus say about Syrian wine? Window on Cyprus says:-

[quote]There is much evidence to suggest that the country which had the greatest wine industry for the longest period was Syria, from around 3,000 BC or before, until about 1000 AD, when Islam held sway and banned the production of alcohol.[quote]

According to 2008 statistics, 63% of grape production is consumed as fresh fruit, 8% is used for raisins, 12% for molasses, and 17% for drinks.

Syria Third Among Arab Countries in Grape Production, 28th on International Level

SWEDEN on wine made in occupied Syria Sweden labels Golan wines: 'Made in occupied Syrian land' By Amiram Barkat Published Ha'aretz 8 June 2006

The economist on Golan heights:- PERCHED between Israel, their occupier for more than four decades, and Syria, perhaps soon to govern them again full article accessible at LFP

User:Tsvi Misinai
Has an interesting hypothesis. A wee bit extreme and hardly likely to bring peace but:-

A tragic misunderstanding Published Times on Line 13 January 2009

The lost Palestinian Jews By DAVID SHAMAH Published JPost 20 August 2009

[http://fr.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1249418656792&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter Edomites, Moabites, Jews, Palestinians - the 'salad' of the Jewish people? By DAVID SHAMAH Published JPost 20 August 2009]

Fort Hood shootings
New York Times interactive. present coords for the article are for the building with the circular roof. A more accurate position is 31° 08' 33.20" N 97° 47' 46.90" W

Tomb of Lazarus
Tomb of Lazarus. 31° 46' 17.95" N 35° 15' 22.65" E..The present coords are for the town of al-Eizariya...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 12:53, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Umm Khalid, Tulkarem
Hi Ash; hope you are doing ok? Anyway, a question: back in ancient times you added this to Umm Khalid. Now, I have an earlier version (the 2004-book) of Morris than you do, but mine say "Not know" under date & depop.cause. Sooo...did Morris "update" his book...or... ;) Cheers, Huldra (talk) 22:46, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

I've found that Morris is economical with the truth. What he writes at the front is not what he writes in between the pages....On page 129 Morris states (quote) Umm Khalid east of Netanya was evacuated out of fear on 20 March(unquote) [see note 517], note 517; 'Hiram to HIS-AD, 21 May 1948, HA\105\92 bet....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 21:50, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * note, the coast strip was mainly inhabited by coastal "Marsh Bedouin", who in general had a reasonable relationship with Jewish settlers and interacted with the PICA programme rather than with the KIbbutz movement. The Marsh Bedouin mostly had rights of use to the land originating from the Ottoman period. When the land use was transferred (generally not sold on the coast, Natanya was a long lease, by Firman) the Bedouin were compensated, although in many cases they had to fight for compensation...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 22:06, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * ps. I'd love to see an article on Marsh Bedouin of Palestine. Their life style was in transition from nomadic to sedentary. The "Tent villages" and temporary structures were were moving over to permanent structures. The area from Gaza to Haifa. There was also the Huela Lake Marsh Bedouin, there's quite a bit written about the Heula lake Marsh Bedouin unfortunately the coastal Marsh Bedouin only appear as a postscript to court records...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 22:16, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

One World Publications
John Calder Reinstate NoCal100's removal of a usable link. Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 09:26, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Happy New Year to one and all
Happy New Year to one and all.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 12:42, 1 January 2010 (UTC)


 * And all the best for a serene and productive NY to you yourself, Ashley. Best Nishidani (talk) 11:31, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Nice to hear from you Nishidani. May you also have a good year.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 12:42, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
 * When does your suspension expire?Nishidani (talk) 14:30, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

April.1st of.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 14:34, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Well good luck, though the date makes one laugh. You obviously have the patience to look to the long term, since you'll have served a one year sentence by that date. Edit coolly, watch the style of exemplary editors, like Nableezy. Le style, c'est l'homlette, ou l'Hamlet etc. Cheers and best wishes.Nishidani (talk) 17:31, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

I've always had patience Nishi. I also found the date apposite. Best wishes to you too Nishi Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 18:55, 1 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Happy New Year Ashley (and Nishidani). I will be looking forward to April Fool's Day.  T i a m u t talk 18:58, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Happy New Year you three :-) Ceedjee (talk) 19:04, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
 * To you too, Ceedjee.  T i a m u t talk 19:09, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi Ceedjee, popped out from French wiki I see. Have a great New Year. Hi Tiamut best wishes, send my regards to Huldra please.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 19:50, 1 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks Ashley. You can always email Huldra, her account is enabled. I haven't been in touch with her recently. As I understand it, she broke her arm and is not typing these days much. In fact, I should send her some new year greetings and check in to see how she is doing. Best to you too.  T i a m u t talk 19:54, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to hear that about Huldra.. As you say Emails good...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 20:37, 1 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Since all the best editors seem to be hanging around here, may I too wish you all a very good and wiki-productive Happy New Year. Roll on April 1st! --NSH001 (talk) 20:50, 1 January 2010 (UTC)


 * So sweet NSH001. Happy New Year to you too.  T i a m u t talk 21:06, 1 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Add my best wishes to that NSH001..Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 22:31, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

A Name to watch out for in 2010 Richard Maize
Richard Maize is an absolutely fascinating character.

From fraudster:-

http://losangeles.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel07/la052507usa.htm Department of Justice LA

to hasbarachik with allegedly international standing and allegedly powerful enough to stall a UN report:-

[quote]Israel Human Rights

The most recent endeavor Richard Maize has participated in is in reaction to a UN commissioned report that has been proven to be very biased against Israel. Although normally highly involved with international human rights issues, this report was so blatantly biased and slanderous that he decided to take part. He contributed money to create powerful websites to combat the lies of the UN report. Those websites were so persuasive that they were thought to have played a part in the UN Human Rights Commission delaying a discussion on the report.[/quote]

http://richardmaizefoundation.wordpress.com/2009/10/10/mortgage-broker-richard-maize-defends-israel-and-supports-young-athletes-at-the-same-time/

Real Estate Expert Richard Maize Mentors for the Jewish Federation of Greater Los Angeles' Real Estate and Construction Division's Young Leadership Development Institute. http://www.allbusiness.com/society-social/philanthropy-foundations/11808597-1.html

so much for natural expansion
Construction Permits Requested of and Granted by the Jerusalem Municipality...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 10:28, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

UN; Demolition of houses and displacement continue in East Jerusalem

New Articles 2010
The Project section New Articles need up dating and archiving with a New Articles 2010 starting. It's not been updated since sept 2009.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 03:53, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Ayman Taha
Ayman Taha was also co-founder of Hamas.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2479&dat=20030304&id=31k1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=ZCUMAAAAIBAJ&pg=2870,17531086

A sacred billboard
A site so sacred it is being proposed to turn it into a billboard.

Israel approves plan to let sponsors beam messages onto Western Wall By Avi Nalaf, Haaretz Correspondent
 * You realize it's a joke? Or are you that gullible? LOL. Breein1007 (talk) 17:10, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

You do also realise that I posted it on the 1st April....You've just been conned..April fool you...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 18:10, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Convenient. Breein1007 (talk) 20:27, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

You did not post it on April 1st. You posted it in early March. Conned indeed. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 11:41, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Well I was blocked from editing until 1st April, that makes you either unable to read or are completely unaware of where it was posted.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 21:41, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Time
The wonderful thing is that time passes. The clock cannot be stopped. A week to go.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 18:55, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

-Now, promise me you will be a good boy, yes? Note that:
 * A) civility & rule-issues are taken much, much stricter now than it was just a year or two ago. Be warned.
 * B) there are some serious good "new" players out there, you know, "new" editors, with zero block record, who somehow learn to file a correct 3RR violations report within their 50 first edits.  Yeah, WP:AGF, and all that. Sure. (Amoroso, e.g..haven´t seen him in while, he disappeared after an admin said his next block should be idef...:D ) These "new" players pretty much know *exactly* how far they can go.
 * C) Work needed: I would absolutely *love* a commonscat for each of the 1948-villages...we could start with cut-out from the old maps....Hint, hint, hint! A bit boring, and routine, but much, much needed....
 * ok, 1 day, 14 hours in advance: welcome back! Cheers, Huldra (talk) 22:43, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

At touch more than 14 hours to go. set to expire at 13.38 1st April.

I'm always civil. Merely forthright in my views.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 22:35, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Oh and I did mention the "Possibility of gaming post 30 august?" see section 18 above; due to hasbara symposiums being held in Jerusalem. All Israeli government subsidised.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 22:58, 31 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, being "forthright" will probably get you blocked again in no time around here now. Same with edit-warring; even Tiamut got blocked recently. Anyway, none of the above links in section 18 works...but this is a newer one: http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx/?id=167613 Cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:32, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Mate, don't waste your time on attitude, being forthright. Be laidbackleft, so you spend less time being in porridge, or square-bashing, chum. Schemers have their profiles, figure out where the trip-wires can be laid, and if you like sprinting through a trap-ridden hazard course, they'll take you out in the first ten metres. Irony, self-irony. The play's the thing, it's not a real life scenario in here. Best Nishidani (talk) 07:14, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I'll only be adding verifiable facts,no more no less.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 07:45, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

20 mins to go.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 13:20, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * A ticking bomb, the sapper turned jihadi! Watch out for them danged 'booby'-traps! Finest wishes for a good contributive year, mate.Nishidani (talk) 13:41, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

We sappers are also taught how to defuse the booby traps. And Thanks for the noteAshley kennedy3 (talk) 13:44, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Welcome back Ashley kennedy3. I hope it was worth the wait. :)  T i a m u t talk 16:14, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you Tiamut. Only as I can edit I think I'll also post this on your page. Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 16:15, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Zeita, Tulkarm
Ash; back in ancient times you wrote that Zeita, Tulkarm is "South-east of Tulkarm." It is still in the article...and we have trouble with it. Please see the discussion here: Talk:Raml_Zayta (There are so many "Zaytas"...they get mixed up...) Cheers, Huldra (talk) 04:25, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Sounds a lot
quote: The Free Gaza group is just such a Leftist-Islamist alliance. Well, Gaza is already free. Israel withdrew from the narrow strip five years ago. And there is also no need for any humanitarian aid. Well over a million tons of humanitarian supplies entered Gaza from Israel over the last 18 months, equaling nearly a ton of aid for every man, woman and child in Gaza. unquote

http://gayandright.blogspot.com/2010/06/why-do-so-called-progressives-team-up.html

Only one problem with that, it turns out that is 1.8 kilos a day per man, woman and child in the Gaza Strip. And further when taking into account that the humanitarian aid allowed in by Israeli authorities included non food items you can understand why malnutrition (a nice way to say starvation) has increased to 10% of the population in the Gaza Strip.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 14:35, 15 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Gaza has one of the highest rates of obesity in the world. Damn those evil zionists and their insatiable hunger for Pali fois gras.

Obesity is a sign of poor using high carbohydrate foods to stock up energy. Obesity is the early stages of malnourishment..Check the US, obesity and low wages go hand in glove. Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 08:24, 24 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Get your UK troops and settlers out of Ireland before you worry about Palestine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.213.239.191 (talk) 12:55, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Get your troops and settlers out of Palestine before you worry the rest of the world to death by boredom about Iran as an existential threat.Nishidani (talk) 13:58, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

You are now a Reviewer
Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, is currently undergoing a two-month trial scheduled to end 15 August 2010.

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under pending changes. Pending changes is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial. The list of articles with pending changes awaiting review is located at Special:OldReviewedPages.

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.

If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Courcelles (talk) 04:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

UNESCO list of sites in danger
UNESCO list of sites in danger

Among the notable sites maintained on the list is Jerusalem, which was included in 1982 because of excavations threatening some of its 220 historic monuments.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100730/sc_afp/cultureenvironmentunescoheritagebrazilus_20100730214732

Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 02:25, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Gaza Prison
http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/2010/08/the-gaza-prison/68686.aspx

If you are still out there
Your genius for coordinates would be required at Al-Hamma, Tiberias, as per the request on Nableezy's page. Regards Nishidani (talk) 09:34, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:31, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Copying between articles
Back in 2008 you copied some text from one article to another. Because you added the text to the first article there was no need to attribute the copy for copyright requirements. However see Copying within Wikipedia, you left behind a long citation needed to support a short citation. Not including attribution in the edit history of the article from which the copy was made, makes tracking the copy difficult and hence it is difficult to find the full citation and verify that it is the correct one. So in future if you copy text from one article to another please include the attribution as described in the guideline even if it is not needed for copyright reasons.


 * Caesarea Philipp Revision as of 17:50, 31 October 2008
 * Benjamin of Tudela Revision as of 18:05, 31 October 2008

-- PBS (talk) 12:00, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Asian 10,000 Challenge invite
Hi. The WikiProject Asia/The 10,000 Challenge has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland The 10,000 Challenge and WikiProject Africa/The 10,000 Challenge. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more countries than they might otherwise work on. There's also the possibility of establishing smaller country or regional challenges for places like South East Asia, Japan/China or India etc, much like The 1000 Challenge (Nordic). For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of countries regularly contributing. At some stage we hope to run some contests to benefit Asian content, a destubathon perhaps, aimed at reducing the stub count would be a good place to start, based on the current WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon which has produced near 200 articles in just three days. If you would like to see this happening for Asia, and see potential in this attracting more interest and editors for the country/countries you work on please sign up and being contributing to the challenge! This is a way we can target every country of Asia, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant! Thank you. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 01:14, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Women in Red World Contest
Hi. We're into the last five days of the Women in Red World Contest. There's a new bonus prize of $200 worth of books of your choice to win for creating the most new women biographies between 0:00 on the 26th and 23:59 on 30th November. If you've been contributing to the contest, thank you for your support, we've produced over 2000 articles. If you haven't contributed yet, we would appreciate you taking the time to add entries to our articles achievements list by the end of the month. Thank you, and if participating, good luck with the finale!

Wikipedia Wars and the Israel-Palestine conflict...please fill out my survey?
Hello :) I am writing my MA dissertation on Wikipedia Wars and the Israel-Palestine conflict, and I noticed that you have contributed to those pages. I will be looking at the process of collaborative knowledge production on the Israel-Palestine conflict, and the effect it has on bias in the articles. This will involve understanding the profiles and motivations of editors, contention/controversy and dispute resolution in the talk pages, and bias in the final article. For more information, you can check out my meta-wiki research page, where I will be posting my findings when I am done. I would greatly appreciate if you could take 5 minutes to fill out this quick survey before 8 AUGUST 2021! Thanks so much, Sarabnas (talk) 19:11, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Category:Tubas has been nominated for deletion
Category:Tubas has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Why? I Ask (talk) 00:57, 22 July 2022 (UTC)