User talk:Athaenara/Archive 0

This is an archive of discussions from 2006 through 2019. Please do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, do so on the current talk page.

← Archive 00  Archive 0   Archive 1 →

WikiWelcome
Welcome message removed for archive economy may still be seen here.

Holiday Greetings
Previous greetings removed for archive economy may still be seen here and here.

Dear Athaenara, I wanted to wish you a very Merry Christmas and all the best for the New Year! Yours, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 21:42, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Great disnub dirhombidodecahedron.png|40px]] Thank you, Rührfisch, many happy returns! — Athaenara  ✉  04:33, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Happy 2011

 * Ruhrfisch, long time no see! Best of 2011 to you!  – Athaenara  ✉  05:45, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

 * New Year's day old car rally - geograph.org.uk - 303559.jpg Many thanks for remembering me - may 2012 be a wonderful year for you! – Athaenara ✉  19:45, 8 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Always glad to hear from you too - all the best in 2012! Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 22:35, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Season's Greetings

 * Christmas Greetings.jpg 23:26, 25 December 2012 (UTC)]]

Happy New Year!
 Dear, HAPPY NEW YEAR Hoping 2015 will be a great year for you! Thank you for your contributions! From a fellow editor, --FWiW Bzuk (talk)

This message promotes WikiLove. Originally created by Nahnah4 (see "invisible note").

Happy New Year, Athaenara!


Happy New Year! Athaenara, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. Liz Read! Talk! 23:27, 31 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.


 * Thanks, Liz, happy MMXVI to you as well. – Athaenara  ✉  10:04, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Season's Greetings
Thanks, man, you're the best! – Athaenara ✉  20:04, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

 * The same to you and yours, and thank you! – Athaenara  ✉  06:29, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Created
→  (In re: a DYK nom @ 18:06, 8 August 2007 UTC & a  @ 05:07, 10 August 2007 UTC.  —A.)

→  (Its 15 minutes of fame began @ 07:48, 13 August 2007 (UTC) & ended 10 hours later. —A.) 

Hi. You are off to such a great start on the article Ernesto de Quesada that it may qualify to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page under the Did you know... section. The Main Page gets about 4,000,000 hits per day and appearing on the Main Page may help bring publicity and assistance to the article. However, there is a five day from article creation window for Did you know... nominations. Before five days pass from the date the article was created and if you haven't already done so, please consider nominating the article to appear on the Main Page by posting a nomination at Did you know suggestions. If you do nominate the article for DYK, please cross out the article name on the "Good" articles proposed by bot list. Also, don't forget to keep checking back at Did you know suggestions for comments regarding your nomination. Again, great job on the article. -- JayHenry 05:06, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Tagged
Thanks for the nomination of George J. Dufek article information for the main page DYK (did it get on there? I've been away for a couple of days...)  Also, nice additions to the article itself, specially the footnotes :)  I did redo one thing - I don't think Dufek's papers qualify as a reference for the article (unless you've looked at them -- I know I haven't), so the finding aid for them I think does belong under "External links..." --Bookgrrl holler/ lookee here  16:46, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! At Template talk:Did you know they're up to articles created the day before.  For the Syracuse papers, maybe "Further reading"?  — Athaenara  ✉  02:00, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

DYK missup

 * You're welcome, and thanks for the star! — Athaenara ✉  18:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Precious
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:59, 15 January 2019 (UTC)


 * My sole contribution to the Reich page was a single initial edit (diff). I am happy about the others, though, and Dorothy Canning Miller and Ben Finney too.  – Athaenara  ✉  09:02, 16 January 2019 (UTC) And Romany Marie!  – Athaenara  ✉  12:26, 16 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Thank you for modesty, and I said "beginning", no? Beginning an article is often something special. - So nice to actually meet someone who was found awesome already 10 years ago. - Happy 2019! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:29, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I enjoyed this trip down memory lane. – Athaenara  ✉  12:29, 16 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Precious anniversary

... or 11 years ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:39, 15 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Today's Wikipedian 10 years ago

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:07, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:55, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Precious anniversary

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:10, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Precious anniversary

Complaints
Hi, per WP:SIG, sigs with text larger than the default size are not reccomended [sic]. Please could you change your sig? 80.41.217.63 (contribs) 11:52, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * After fruitlessly testing this with successively smaller font sizes, I removed the sup/sup markup for my talk link. It was the talk link, superscripted as many  wikipedians also choose to place theirs (cf. Kf4bdy's on my Archive 1 subpage), which was making my signature appear to be significantly larger than default size.
 * I am treating your complaint as seriously as I would that of a registered user. I do recommend that you register.
 * I don't, of course, include the talk link in my sig for messages on my talk page (this one). Athænara  01:43, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I can't help but notice your signature—you've set it in a very large type size. I appreciate that many users like to spruce up their signatures to make them unique, but such modifications are usually limited to adding colour and symbols. Using such a large font is very distracting, as it makes your signature seem much more important than the surrounding text, and also breaks up line spacing. I hope you'll take this observation under advisement and consider changing your signature to something a little less outstanding. —Psychonaut 12:48, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Psychonaut: I relocated your post on my talk page to the pre-existing Signature section there. Thanks for your comment; remove this note from your talk page if you like.   Athænara   22:05, 24 November 2006 (UTC) [ This is a copy:  original posted to Psychonaut's talk page.]

→ (I eventually [+ half-]figured out how my sig looked to users with different skins and and different default font sizes and reduced the font size to 12/14 point.)

→ ''But after I was unexpectedly stuck with different OS and browser versions, and a skin I had never seen before and had no idea how to find and change, I found I had yet more to learn about how awful an Edwardian Script ITC signature can look when it's not properly displayed. Athaenara ✉  03:33, 3 May 2007 (UTC)''

Gallery
→ Note: A Wikipedian Signature Art Gallery relocated 9 January 2007 UTC.  — Athaenara  ✉

First Barnstar
Absolutely beautiful! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.247.220.9 (talk • contribs) 23:39, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Athaenara

Gallery Guest Book
Thanks Athaenara, for signing my autograph book. I'd like to add my sig to yours, but I'm not sure where... | A ndonic O  Talk 23:32, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * You're welcome—I'll add yours to the Wikipedian Signature Art Gallery if it's ok with you. Athaenara  23:41, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think a Guest book qualifies to be on the list; as long as you can sign there, it's fine. If you don't want it to be there, it's fine, but I still think it should. And thanks for adding my sig to your collection too. :-) | A ndonic O  Talk 19:03, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Could you add my signature there? I don't know exactly where to put it though.  Thanks.  &mdash; ¡ Rand  fan  !  20:28, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * As curator, I added it to the Infinite Variety section ( an earlier form [ 23:31, 10 December 2006 (UTC) in the history ], not the one you used here ) nearly a week ago. Athaenara  23:47, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 *  A most extravagant version now in Extreme section.  Athaenara  07:44, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 *  Extreme section removed at 08:51, 22 February 2007 (UTC). — A. 
 *  Location as of September 2007: User:Athaenara/Gallery/Beyond. — A. 

Thanks for signing my signature book. Current signee #21!!! -- ¿ Why  1  9  9  1  ESP. 02:42, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
 * You're welcome (I updated your sig in the Infinite Variety section) .  Athaenara  23:31, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Category
You might want to put Category:Wikipedians who collect signatures of other Wikipedians on your user page. —sd3141 5   (sign here)  16:24, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I considered that, but I couldn't find the syntax which would show only the Gallery Guest Book section in that category. Athaenara  03:44, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

→ Update: Category deleted 18:00, 6 February 2007 (UTC).

Nice work
Greetings Athaenara, I see you maintaining WP:BLP/N and just wanted to say that it is good to see someone like yourself taking care of business there. Thanks for that. Also, I caught sight of your sig gallery and I must say that with the formatting and layout it is a pleasure to look at. Take it easy. 00:30, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey, thank you for the encouragement ( BLP/N )!  If you don't mind, I'll put your comments about the gallery in the Gallery Guest Book section there, unless you would like to add your comments yourself—let me know.   Athaenara  00:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Autograph books are a bit contentious right now... I suppose I wouldn't mind if you transfer my comments there though. Cheers. 00:39, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It is not an autograph book (cf. my comments on the gallery talk page about that very thing) but a curated collection. Thank you for your kind permission to add your comments to the guestbook.  Athaenara  00:52, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Inspired
Hi, I feel inspired by your signature and a number of those in your gallery to render my own in an artistic fashion. I know how to do the art but is there a way to make it appear like that everytime I use the four tides or do I need to copy and paste all the time? -   S e n t i n e l    13:51, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Signatures: you can change the signature field in Special:Preferences.  Athaenara 14:02, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I see you followed through—thanks for signing the guest book. Athaenara  07:00, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Apropos
Hi A, just wanted to say your curated signature collection inspired me to try being creative with my own. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 21:15, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Wonderful fish, love the bubbles! — Athaenara 09:35, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 11:06, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

RFA mop
Thanks for your kind words on my RfA - since my signature fish is a resident in your curated collection, I thought you might like to see what it is up to now - it is a bit silly, but thought you might like it. Take care. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:55, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Sweet! Thanks for the update :-) — Athaenara  ✉  02:58, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Nice
Where'd you get the envelope symbol in your sig? J.d ela noy gabsadds 01:08, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I don't remember now where I found it, but it was somewhere on Wikipedia in late 2006. — Athaenara  ✉  01:23, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I tracked it down—this 01:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC) edit of the Save the Sig section, which was the tiny beginning of what became A Wikipedian Signature Art Gallery, shows a signature which used the symbol and may have been the first use of it I had seen. — Athaenara  ✉  06:44, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

My sig
→ '' In re: Village pump (assistance)/Archive 11‎ & User talk:Daedalus969/Archive 7. ''

I think I managed to figure it out, at least for now, thanks!—  Dæ dαlusT@lk / Improve  Contribs  07:03, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Looking good! — Athaenara  ✉  15:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

kudos + a question
LOVE the sig gallery -- and my sig is in it, how cool is that :) Now, how do you get the "Athenaera is Online" to appear in the top of your page? --Bookgrrl holler/ lookee here  02:33, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm happy to hear you like my gallery, and please sign the guest book!


 * The status template is a wonderful little thing created by Misza13.  I first saw it just ten days ago on User talk:Ukexpat.  For the code, see User:Athaenara/StatusTemplate and User:Athaenara/Status.  "Status" is updated at will; "StatusTemplate" does the job.  — Athaenara  ✉  02:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, will check it out! --Bookgrrl holler/ lookee here 03:19, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You're welcome — P.S. If you don't sign the guest book, I'll move your rave over there ;) [did that, actually: replace or remove if you want!] — Athaenara  ✉  03:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Followup
 * I created and transcluded the User:Bookgrrl/StatusTemplate and User:Bookgrrl/Status pages for you.
 * "StatusTemplate" just sits there and minds its own business.
 * "Status" is the page you edit whenever you want to change the display to online, busy, or offline.
 * If you decide you do not want them, let me know. — Athaenara  ✉  16:40, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks -- appreciate the extra effort :) --Bookgrrl holler/ lookee here 02:10, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You're welcome — Athaenara ✉  02:17, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Signature
→  in re: my post on RegentsPark's talk page about inventive piping 
 *  (feed my swans) · (chase my ducks) · (moult with my mallards) · (roll amongst the roses) 
 *  (sink with the skaters) · (paddle with the ducks) · (count the magpies) · (one for sorrow) 
 *  (sniff out my socks) · (sink with my stocks) · (bail out your boat) · (Boating Lake) 

Thanks. Just as I was running out of ideas, you gave me a new one! (I'm sticking with my current one for the time being because it seems so appropriate.) --Regents Park (sink with my stocks) 20:52, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Signatures
→  in re: User:Robster1983/signature and Help desk/Archives/2011 March 9 

Hi Atheanara, I saw your gallery of signatures, and it inspired me to be creative myself. During the process, however, I wondered if my signature was blinking (as I was not familiar with that wikiword), so I went to the help desk. As can be seen here, it soon turned into something that made me feel completely bad about myself, not to mention utterly lost, for I really don't know how I can rectify things. Could you perhaps give me some pointers? Thanks a million in advance, Ρόμπ   ☞ Life's short, talk fast ☜  22:12, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I haven't often (if ever) advised anyone on their signatures but I looked at your code and the help desk discussion. My own suggestion is that you tone it down further and put your final text in your preferences.
 * For example: Ρόμπ  ☞ Life's short, talk fast ☜
 * The example eliminates colors, retains bold markup for the username and big markup for the hands, adds one space after the italic phrase so the end of that line won't overlap the second hand image, and is short enough to fit in your sig preference field. – Athaenara  ✉  00:10, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks so much for helping out, Athaenara! I will use your suggestion for now, until I get the hang of it (=wiki-signatures). Anyhow, statue of you is on its way! ;) :P Deep bow _O_ !!!  Ρόμπ  ☞ Life's short, talk fast ☜ 09:32, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

 Hello Athaenara, ☞ Life's short, talk fast ☜ has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing! 09:48, 10 March 2011 (UTC) Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message. For your suggestion and for helping out (but also, of course, because of your presence in the wiki-world) a BIG smile, for you sure created one on my face! :D Big hug! Ρόμπ ☞ Life's short, talk fast ☜ 09:48, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Smile

Signature Art
Hello, I have been looking at your great Signature Art Galleries and would like to borrow complex ideas from some of those creative people. But the "Signature" section at my Preferences page only allows 255 characters of HTML code; the signature you see below almost maxes me out at 232 characters. However, some of the most artistic signatures have much more than 255, and the famous SonicChao has more than 500. Do you know how those artists do this? I see nothing about exceeding the 255 at Signatures or in related guidelines. Thanks for your time. ––  DOOMSDAYER 520 (TALK&#124;CONTRIBS) 01:38, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * My galleries are just art installations. I've never been involved in signature policies or guidelines, past or present, and I don't have the technical expertise to find ways to shoehorn 500+ character signature markup into something less than 255.  I'm not saying nobody should try, I'm just saying I don't have that. – Athaenara  ✉  09:48, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

SF Meetup 3
-- phoebe/ (talk) 05:35, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

SF Meetup 11
This is posted to the groups by request. Please sign up on the Invite list for future announcements. Thanks. -- Shakata Ga Nai ^_^ 23:45, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

The Great American Wiknic
Hi there! In the past, you've expressed an interest in local meetups of Wikipedians. Well, here's your chance! On Saturday, June 25, we'll be joining Wikipedians in cities all over the country for the first annual Great American Wiknic -- the picnic that anyone can edit! We'll meet up at a park in SF -- hopefully in the sun -- all other details are still in deliberation!

If this sounds fun, please add your name to the list: Meetup/San Francisco/Wiknic and add that page to your watchlist. (And of course, feel free to edit that page with your ideas, questions, etc.) I look forward to wiknicking with you! -Pete (talk) 00:21, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, added self, either park. – Athaenara  ✉  00:27, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yay :) -Pete (talk)

San Francisco Women's History Month Edit-a-Thon
→  see also: Wikipedia Signpost/2012-03-12/Women and Wikipedia 

— Preceding unsigned comment added by SarahStierch (talk • contribs) 20:39, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

You're invited! - Wiki Loves Monuments - San Francisco Events
Hi! As part of Wiki Loves Monuments, we're organizing two photo events in the San Francisco Bay Area and one in Yosemite National Park. We hope you can come out and participate! Feel free to contact User:Almonroth with questions or concerns.

There are three events planned:


 * September 15, Saturday - A bike ride along San Francisco's waterfront
 * September 22-23rd, Saturday-Sunday - Wiki Takes Yosemite
 * September 29, Saturday - A sunset and harvest moon bridges, palace, boats and tower tour

We look forward to seeing you there!

You are receiving this message because you signed up on the SF Bay Area event listing, or have attended an event in the Bay Area. To remove yourself, please go here. EdwardsBot (talk) 00:40, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Edit-a-thon tomorrow (Saturday) in Oakland
Hi, I hope you will be joining us tomorrow afternoon at the Edit-a-thon at Tech Liminal, in Oakland. We'll be working on articles relating to women and democracy (and anything else that interests you). It's sponsored by the California League of Women Voters, Tech Liminal, and me.

If this is the first you are hearing of this event, my apologies for the last-minute notice! I announced it on the San Francisco email list and by a banner on your watchlist, but I neglected to look at the San Francisco invitation list until this evening. If you can't make it this time, I hope to see you at a similar event soon! -Pete (talk) 04:39, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Wiknic 2013
"Wiknic 2013 Sunday, June 23rd · 12:34pm · Lake Merritt, Oakland Theme: Hyperlocal list-making" This year's 2013 SF Wiknik will be held at Lake Merritt, next to Children's Fairyland in Oakland. This event will be co-attended by people from the hyperlocal Oakland Wiki. May crosspollination of ideas and merriment abound!

Location and Directions:
 * Location: The grassy area due south of Children's Fairyland (here) (Oakland Wiki)
 * Nearest BART: 19th Street
 * Nearest bus lines: NL/12/72
 * Street parking abounds

EdwardsBot (talk) 04:49, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

You're invited...
to two upcoming Bay Area events:
 * Maker Faire 2013, Sat/Sun May 18-19, San Mateo -- there will have a booth about Wikimedia, and we need volunteers to talk to the public and ideas for the booth -- see the wiki page to sign up!
 * Edit-a-Thon 5, Sat May 25, 10-2pm, WMF offices in San Francisco -- this will be a casual edit-a-thon open to both experienced and new editors alike! Please sign up if on the wiki page if you can make it so we know how much food to get.

I hope you can join us at one or both! -- phoebe / (talk to me) 18:51, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

You are invited to Stanford's WikIProject!
ralphamale (talk) 22:22, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

MSU Interview
Dear Athaenara,

My name is Jonathan Obar user:Jaobar, I'm a professor in the College of Communication Arts and Sciences at Michigan State University and a Teaching Fellow with the Wikimedia Foundation's Education Program. This semester I've been running a little experiment at MSU, a class where we teach students about becoming Wikipedia administrators. Not a lot is known about your community, and our students (who are fascinated by wiki-culture by the way!) want to learn how you do what you do, and why you do it. A while back I proposed this idea (the class) to the community HERE, where it was met mainly with positive feedback. Anyhow, I'd like my students to speak with a few administrators to get a sense of admin experiences, training, motivations, likes, dislikes, etc. We were wondering if you'd be interested in speaking with one of our students.

So a few things about the interviews:
 * Interviews will last between 15 and 30 minutes.
 * Interviews can be conducted over skype (preferred), IRC or email. (You choose the form of communication based upon your comfort level, time, etc.)
 * All interviews will be completely anonymous, meaning that you (real name and/or pseudonym) will never be identified in any of our materials, unless you give the interviewer permission to do so.
 * All interviews will be completely voluntary. You are under no obligation to say yes to an interview, and can say no and stop or leave the interview at any time.
 * The entire interview process is being overseen by MSU's institutional review board (ethics review). This means that all questions have been approved by the university and all students have been trained how to conduct interviews ethically and properly.

Bottom line is that we really need your help, and would really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. If interested, please send me an email at obar@msu.edu (to maintain anonymity) and I will add your name to my offline contact list. If you feel comfortable doing so, you can post your name HERE instead.

If you have questions or concerns at any time, feel free to email me at obar@msu.edu. I will be more than happy to speak with you.

Thanks in advance for your help. We have a lot to learn from you.

Sincerely,

Jonathan Obar --Jaobar (talk) 04:25, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Your input is requested
Greetings, Athaenara! If we have not met, I'm. I've come here to ask you to take part in the survey at User:AutomaticStrikeout/Are admins interested in a RfB?. I am trying to gauge the general level of interest that administrators have in running for cratship, as well as pinpoint the factors that affect that interest level. Your input will be appreciated. Happy editing, AutomaticStrikeout (T • C • Sign AAPT) 02:35, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Disc/display problems
Hope your hard disk recovers soon. Your absence is noted. There are in fact some new people helping out at the COI/N. Perhaps we could have an 'educational program', or something. However, the ones who arrive seem to know what to do immediately. EdJohnston 20:21, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It's very odd.  There are background colours on browser pages where formerly there were none, and of more than seventy font examples on the long WikiProject User Page Help/Do-It-Yourself/Formatting Text fewer than ten display properly.  (Maybe I was given a reconditioned rather than new HD and someone else's browser customisation is still in it?)   — Athænara    ✉  22:15, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Have you done the usual banal things like change browsers (IE<->Firefox, or Safari<->Firefox)? EdJohnston 23:54, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Safari only, on a basic MacBook (OS X 10.4.6), "Version 2.0.3 (417.9.2)" and I don't know what version I was using before.  — Athænara  ✉  00:00, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Firefox works well on a Mac. I have it installed in case of sites that don't work with Safari. Send WP email if you think I might know anything that would help. You don't have a fancy monobook.css, do you? EdJohnston 00:18, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * If I do, I didn't put it wherever it is.  — A.  ✉  01:51, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

You could have a permissions problem, have you run Disk Utility to "repair permissions"? You should also run Disk Utility's "Verify Disk" function. That will tell you if your disk catalog has a problem. You can't repair that from your startup disk, but you can test it. If you find a problem, let me know and I'll give you some ideas on how to fix it.

Also, with Fonts, you can have all sorts of strange behavior if you have fonts with the same names in multiple font folders. You should only have one copy of each font to avoid confusion. (Instead of deleting the extras, you can move them to other non-font folders in case you need to go get them again later). There are font folders in the Library folders of the top level, in the System's folder, and in each User's Library. Here are some links to articles that discuss this:


 * article - apple docs info
 * garbled font fix corrupt font cache - creative techs
 * blog wave studio - mac homepage
 * garbled fonts troubleshooting guide - creative techs

In addition, the apple support site has more info on fonts corruption if you do a search within the OS X section of their knowledge base, and also in their discussions forums.

This is the glitch that happened to me with fonts and how it was able to be fixed: Fonts are kept in a cache that can become corrupted. If that happens, you might need to clear your "font cache." That's a maintenance operation that requires a third-party program. I use one called Yasu ("Yet Another System Utility"), available as shareware here: mac os x version tracker or here: yasu info

It's not a full application, just a graphical interface that runs unix scripts that are built-in to OS X but otherwise would require using commands in the terminal to run.

If you use it, you might want to read this too:


 * system cache clean effects - the x lab

By the way, is there a reason you're still using 10.4.6? OS X is up to 10.4.9 now. That could be part of your problem too. If you decide to upgrade, instead of using the software update application, it's safer to download the combo updater from the Apple OS X support site downloads page.

Good luck! --Parzival418 Hello 03:34, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow, that's a lot of information! I'll see what I can use.  The reason for that OS X version: my hard disk stopped working Friday night; what's there now was installed Monday night at the Apple Genius Bar.   — Athænara  ✉  03:40, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Even aside from my Edwardian Script ITC signature markup issues, it's extremely annoying that the left page margins of Wikipedia pages (and the background in standard things such as Tables of Contents) are pink while the main page space is ice blue. — Athaenara 03:39, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The fonts could be a Mac OS X issue, but the strange browser colors you describe don't sound like a Mac OS X issue. How does Safari look with other websites?  Does it look normal on Google, Yahoo, various blogs, etc?  How does it look on other MediaWiki sites  - ie, Wiktionary, or the main mediaWiki site (click the powered-by icon in the lower right corner of every page)?  If you zero in on which sites cause the issue,  you can discover if it's the MediaWiki software or something on your computer.  If it's MediaWiki, you could probably find the answer by posting your question here:  Village pump (technical)...  Good luck! --Parzival418 Hello 04:59, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Really good call, Parzival. I checked MediaWiki and found new pink and blue background shadings over there, too.  Non-Wiki webpages display normally, including pages which discuss and display the Edwardian Script ITC font.  — Athaenara 06:11, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Question: When you look at WikiProject User Page Help/Do-It-Yourself/Formatting Text, how many of the formatted examples display the examples in the fonts they're intended to illustrate? I see only about ten of the fonts displaying properly. I did look at the formatting behind the scenes which as far as I can tell is as it should be. (BTW, I posted on Village pump (technical) as you suggested.) —  Athaenara 07:20, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Those are wrong on my system too. I checked them on Safari, Firefox and Internet Explorer 5.2 (mac).  They look the same on all three browsers - around 12 to 15 look like they may be OK, but that's only around a third of them.  The rest are all split between two fonts - one san serif and one serif, but definately not the named fonts in the table.  Hopefully one of the tech wizards at the  Village Pump will know the proper magical incantation!  Parzival418 Hello 07:39, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * My pages aren't pink and blue though! Just basic Wikipedia white... Parzival418 Hello 07:41, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Could you post your corroboration of the font issue on the pump page? It's in the "Wiki skin change?" section.  — Athaenara 07:45, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure... note posted. Parzival418 Hello 08:26, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Next steps
OK, after the investigations at Village Pump/tech, plus the tests we've both done, here's what we know:


 * the fonts issue is not related to the color issues you are experiencing. We know this because my colors are normal, but I see similar font problems you do.  They might not be problems with all the same fonts, but so far it seems like a Mac-specific issue.  To figure this out further, we need to ask some more Windows Wiki users to view that page and learn if any of them have the same problem.  If not, then we know we need to address it as a Mac OS debugging issue.  Mac OS does have some font issues, as I noted above, however, so far I am not sure this is a Mac thing.  It seems like you're pretty active in parts of the Wiki community, could you ask some of your contacts to view the fonts page and find out if they are seeing them correctly, and also if they are using Mac or Windows?


 * the colors issue with your browser - that's just plain strange, since you said you have not changed anything about your monobook file. Did the colors change right after you did the disk reformatting at the Apple store?  You know, they call it the "genius bar," but they can't be geniuses if they restored your system to an outdated version of the Mac OS.  I recommend you  update your OS to the current version which is 10.4.9, and also get a copy of the shareware program Yasu - or one of the other scripts that does a similar function - so you can clear your font and system caches. I have no idea if that will help the colors problem, but it will certainly help the health of your system.


 * you could try downloading the free Firefox browser and see if that one looks better on your system: mozilla firefox


 * There are also issues about fonts that can mess up the system, even if they seem to display properly. I recommend that you go through the various font folders on your Mac and make sure you don't have duplicates of the same fonts in multiple folders. There are certain fonts that must be in the Fonts folder in System/Library/Fonts (those are listed in the Apple articles above).  Other fonts can be in your user folder, or in the hard drive top level Library/Fonts folder.  If you find duplicates and you want to be completely sure not to lose the fonts, instead of deleting them you can just move them to a folder on your desktop for temporary storage, call it something like "Fonts (disabled)".  That way you can restore them if you need to.  After you confirm you don't need them you can trash them.


 * Here's are a couple more articles worth checking out - regarding problems with fonts in OS X:
 * bad fonts - apple page
 * how to - creative pro
 * May 2005 article - Mac World


 * Do you have an external disk drive for backing up your system?  That may be an overly obvious question, but I've seen a lot of disks lose all their data.  Since you already know you have some kind of system or disk issue, that makes backups even more important.  I highly recommend you get one or two external disk drives and duplicate your whole system, especially your personal and work data that can't be replaced if it's lost.  I receommend the program "Retrospect" retro for macintosh - it's cross-platform and widely used.  It costs $150 or so, so if that's too much, you can find alternatives for less.  Whatever application you use, it should be able to make a bootable clone of your system drive so you can startup from the external disk if you need to do maintenance on your main drive.  I also recommend you get a copy of Techtool Pro, to fix your directory in case of damage.

OK, you probably agree, that's enough for now...  Whatever is going on with your browser might be related to system issues or might not be. The most recent Mac OS X is the most stable - definitely recommended. Clearing caches with Yasu also recommended. Aside from all that, you know your internal drive has had troubles before, so preventative maintenance and backups are really important. --Parzival418 Hello 03:20, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm so fed up with this thing I might donate it to a nonprofit organisation and go get a VAIO. My last one served me well for six years before it died (of old age, I guess) and I really, really, really, really wish I had not chosen a MacBook after that (June 2006).  — Athaenara 05:01, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know what else you experienced with your Macbook - maybe you got a lemon. But just to give you an alternate perspective, I've used Macs since 1994 in my business, several at time, never had to get one serviced,... and I've never been to the genius bar!   Other than the fonts conflicts I described above, I've never had to dig into the depths of the system, and I've never seen anything like a "Windows registry". I've never used an anti-virus program and none of Macs have ever had a virus or spyware program.   I have needed to use utilities to fix disk drive catalogs now and then, but that's pretty much the same on Windows (ie, Symantec/Norton, etc).  I'm not a Mac evangelist by any means, and there's lots about Apple that I don't like (including the stock options back-dating scandal and the way they'd rather be a phone company than support their professional computer customers).  But I really don't think what you've experienced lately is par for the course with Macs.  Once this issue is resolved and you get comfortable with the Macbook, you might change your mind.


 * One thing about Windows that I'll never understand: To turn off a Windows computer, you have to use the "Start" button!  --Parzival418 Hello 05:17, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Until late last week, I was comfortable with the MacBook—I had adjusted to it within the first week last June—but on top of the browser hassles since the HD failed and they gave me a new one, telling me to install from the 2 discs which came with it originally, it's now started to turn itself off without warning. Truly, only a backbone of steel and a stiff upper lip are keeping me out of whining territory.


 * The thought of throwing the thing through the front door of the Apple store had momentary, albeit insane, appeal, and after reading Apple forums through figuratively less rose-coloured glasses I'm thinking I did not get a lemon but something nearer the norm. It's an experience I definitely do not want to repeat.  — Athaenara 08:59, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Well I certainly can understand how upsetting that's been. If after your disk was replaced it's now turning itself off, it really is possible you got a lemon.  The combination of bad disk with what now seems to be a power supply or logicboard issue, if I were experiencing that with Apple I would contact their customer relations department and demand a replacement unit - the whole computer, not just a repair.  They would try to avoid that aof course, but if you escalate the issue, they might eventually agree.  They might have a policy on this.


 * Their "Genius Bar"  service was clearly substandard to install an out of date operating system. They should have updated that to the most recent version before you left the store.   Apple's tech support and customer care has been less than stellar lately.  I used to have very positive  experiences with Apple tech support and customer service, but lately they are clearly less invested in those areas unfortuately, but it is possible to find a person within the organization to advocate for you and you might be able to get a replacement.  The turn-off issue could be very disruptiv; I would not let that go for long, and I would not accept a "fix" that is not explained to my satisfaction.  It simply should not behappening.


 * On the other hand the negative comments on the Apple support forum are not representative.  I've noticed that forums make it seem pretty bad, and a lot of those people are pretty angry.  But the vast majority of users have no trouble at all, or Apple would not be growing their market share as they are. With Apple is that the computer and software are made by the same company so there is a place to complain, and people do.  But where do you complain about a Windows problem when sometimes it's hard to tell if it's Microsoft or the hardware manufacturer?  Well, to wrap this up, as I said I'm not evangelizing for Apple.  I've lost a lot of respect for them since they moved their main focus to the the iPod and iPhone, though I still like their computers and their OS better than Windows machines for various reasons... and I do think you may have gotten a lemon that may need to be replaced, or at least its power supply and/or logic board.  --Parzival418 Hello 18:06, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Parzival, you have been extremely generous with your time and expertise, and I deeply appreciate it. For me, applying the information you've provided is kind of like trying to get from kindergarten to sixth grade in one week. I will archive these computer sections soon, not because I'm going to ignore the information but because for now I've switched to the Simple skin and will just try to cope quietly, knowing I can retrieve the information any time I'm ready for more homework. — Athaenara 12:09, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I was glad to help. I thought the font issue seemed familiar, but now I wonder about that being a Mac issue  When you get back to thinking about it, I recommend surveying Windows users and finding out what they see on that page.  There might be issues in your fonts folders, but mine have been optimized, yet that font chart displays wrong on my computer too (though your prior signature with the fancy font still displays fine on my Mac in your older posts). So while you may need to optimize your fonts in your system, I think that is a separate issue from the Wiki font display situation.  And the skin situation, that's just plain strange - I don't have a clue on that.  That should be cross-platform and cross-browser across all systems, even Unix/Linux, not just Mac and Windows.  Probably it's a MediaWiki bug, maybe it would be a good idea to mention it to the programmers over there:  mediawiki project help.  Even if you don't think about the rest of it, considering doing the free update to OS X 10.4.9, that's the most recent Mac OS and the most stable.


 * Meanwhile, your plan to give this stuff a rest and get on with Wikipedia instead of computer wrestling sounds like a good idea. Good luck with everything.  --Parzival418 Hello 18:05, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * ...quick closing note - I'll continue watching your page in case you want to comment further, but I am unwatching the Village Pump tech page. Too much action over there, it's distracting.  So if you post anything over there that you want me to see, please let me know with a message. --Parzival418 Hello 18:14, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Update
Briefly: My second visit to the Genius Bar at the Apple Store had better results.

Blackouts (sudden random "CrashBook" shutdowns which apparently have something to do with a defective temperature sensor) had become much more frequent. After searching online for fixes, I followed a suggestion to check Software Updates, chose one which seemed to apply and followed instructions.

After that, my MacBook started up in Sleep Mode and would do nothing else. Fifty minutes on the Apple Care phone line with a kind person in Texas solved nothing, so back to the store I went, where another kind person diagnosed and fixed it, also updating the OS to the version which last week's receipt had specified but which hadn't in fact been installed.

I may be repeating myself, but what the heck: Thank you, Ed and Parzival, for your interest, your commiseration and your advice. Most fonts still don't display properly (did you get that sorted out on yours, Parzival?) but I can at least use my computer and I'm no longer pricing VAIOs and dreaming of full refunds from Apple. — Athaenara 04:49, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Fonts
Glad to hear your refund dreams have ceased! I'm still not seeing all the fonts properly, but I don't think it's a mac bug, because it only happens on MediaWiki pages and only with certain fonts, but it does happen with several browsers. I think to figure this out one would need to canvass PC users too, with multiple Windows versions and browsers. I bet some of them would find they have the problem too. Strangely, web pages in general with varieties of fonts all display just fine on my Mac.

I miss your fun script signature though. That font (Edwardian Script ITC) is working fine on my mac and still shows correctly in your signatures on oledr comments, and on your page headings. Does it not show up on your mac correctly? Best of luck with your Macbook! --Parzival418 Hello 07:45, 11 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I miss the Edwardian Script ITC too, and not just in the signature markup I used to use. Though there are no such display problems on any of the other off-wiki websites I've checked, I cannot see it anywhere on Wikipedia.  Mysterioso.  — Athaenara  ✉  14:52, 17 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I can still see Edwardian Script ITC on your page header and in your older signatures when you were still using it. I've done a bit more checking and determined that when I view the list of fonts page, all of the fonts that are installed in my system are showing up correctly, and only the ones I don't have installed are not displaying properly.  There's one exception - MS Gothic, which I have installed but is displaying oddly.  That one it turns out is a Windows TrueType font (extension .ttf) - those are supposed to work OK on macs, but apparently there is a problem there.


 * But you say you can see Edwardian Script ITC on non-wiki pages, is that correct? I've viewed the HTML source of some wiki-rendered pages and they seem just like regular HTML (to my limited knowledge).  That you can see it properly on other sites means you must have it installed in some form.  Can you post a link here to a non-wiki website that displays that font correctly on your browser?  Also, are you still using the older version of OS X or did you do the update to 10.4.9?


 * If you use Spotlight to search your drive - how many copies of Edwardian Script ITC show up in the search? Are they all identically named or do some of them have the .ttf extension and some do not?  If you have more than one copy of the font, what folders are the various copies in?  --Parzival418 Hello 04:15, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Answer to the versions question:
 * 1) As of June 3 2006:  Unknown, whatever versions were installed.  No issues with fonts or colours.
 * 2) As of April 30 2007: OS X 10.4.6 and Safari 2.0.3 (417.9.2).  Severe wiki font and colour issues.
 * 3) As of May 7 2007: OS X 10.4.9 and Safari 2.0.4 (419.3).  Wiki font issues remain.

Off-wiki, this example, Font Style Details for ITC Edwardian Script Regular on the MyFonts website, is typical. All is as it should be: I can see every character, no exceptions. I haven't checked thousands of websites, but the results were the same on every site I did check.

On wiki, of the more than seventy fonts on the list of fonts, I can see the same twelve now which I could see when I posted on Village Pump (technical) on May 3 (Arial Black, Arial Narrow, Arial Rounded MT Bold, Brush Script MT, Comic Sans MS, Courier New, Georgia, Gill Sans MT, Impact, Times New Roman, Trebuchet MS, Webdings).

Spotlight: "No results found" for Edwardian anything. — Athaenara 12:00, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * OK... I think I figured out what's going on. It appears that you can't see those fonts on wiki pages because they are not installed in your system.  The reason you can see them on the MyFonts site and other font seller sites is that on those pages, you are seeing graphic images of the font, not text being rendered by your browser.  You can tell they are graphics by trying to select the text as if you were going to copy it to the clipboard.  If it's text, you can select any series of letters in your browser but if it's a graphic, you'll only be able to select the whole image, for example on the webpage you linked above, each line of fonts is one graphic image.


 * If you find any webpages that use those fonts in text and not graphics and they display OK on your system, then that would disprove my theory. But unless you can find pages like that, I'm pretty sure this is the answer.


 * I think what happened is that on your system prior to June 3 2006, you had fonts installed that are not on your current system. When you lost that system and replaced it with the April 30 2007 system, you got problems due to a bad installation, and you only got the standard OS X fonts.  Then you updated to you current system and fixed your color issues, but the fonts you used have are still missing - they are just not part of the standarad OS X package of fonts.


 * If you have a backup of your old disk, you can probably recover the fonts and re-install them, though if they are corrupted that could mess up your new system. Or you can buy new fonts from a variety of suppliers to replace the ones you lost.


 * I don't know which are the good suppliers of fonts - there are many, so look for ones that have good reviews from other users, or ones that are recommended by software vendors, like Adobe or others. There are various font format standards, make sure to get ones that work on Macs. I know Macs like .dfont, OpenType, and Postscript - there may be others.  OS X can use Windows .ttf fonts, but I would use those only if the other types are not available.


 * Here is the list of fonts installed by Mac OS X. Sometimes applications install fonts too, such as Microsoft Office.  It's important to make sure you don't have duplicate copies of fonts inmultiple locations, that can confuse the system.  If you have duplicates, you may need to use some of the clean-up methods in the links I provided when we first start looking at this problem.  But I bet you won't have that issue since your system is pretty much a new installation now.


 * Fonts can be installed in any of these locations:


 * /Library/Fonts
 * /System/Library/Fonts
 * (any user folder)/Library/Fonts
 * /System Folder/Fonts
 * -- the last one is only for "Classic" if you don't use Classic, don't use that folder, and remove any duplicate fonts from there. If you do need to use Classic, you'll need to learn about how it handles fonts.  It's different because it's left over from the obsolete OS 9. I don't have that info but it's findable on Apple's support discussions pages.


 * Unless you have a reason to restrict fonts to one user, the best method is to put all of them in the main fonts folder at the top level: /Library/Fonts ... the only exception to that are the main OS X system fonts that need to be in /System/Library/Fonts as noted in the article linked above.


 * It sounds complicated but it's really not. Just buy the fonts you want and put them in the top level /Library/Fonts folder, and look through your various font folders to make sure there are no duplicates.


 * To manage fonts - see examples, turn them on or off for various uses - use the OS X Fontbook application and view its help menu to learn how to use it.


 * If you find any examples of webpages that show those missing fonts as text and not images, let me know, then we might be in a mysterious parallel universe! --Parzival418 Hello 21:05, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Quick note: How odd that the list of fonts installed by Mac OS X doesn't have Edwardian on it, yet it was installed on whichever OS X version I was using from June 2006 to April 2007.


 * After studying several of the websites which offer "free" fonts and following links to "free" download pages, and finding they're generally "free" for $24 or so, I have at least temporarily (sour grapes) lost interest. I like the Chopin font better, but who has that, eh?  Thank you again for being so helpful with all of this!  — Athaenara ✉ 14:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * At least now you know what the issue is. Why was that font on your system until April?  Good question.   Do you use Microsoft Office?  I think that's where I got Edwardian ITC - it was installed with MS Office 2004 or maybe with MS Office v.X previously.  If you install it from there, make sure to remove duplicates it may install  (which was the original source of my font problems and the reason I learned so much about fonts.)  Oh and that reminds me, there's also a separate font cache for MS Office that sometimes needs to be deleted, info is here: .  If you use MS Office, that page may be valuable at some point.  Happy editing! --Parzival418 Hello 18:22, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * No, I've never used Microsoft Office on any computer. — Athaenara ✉ 19:37, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

1.18 upgrade problems
On WP:VPT you said you were seeing several different problems with Wikipedia since the upgrade. Are you still seeing the same problems? If so, please let me know. — ☠MarkAHershberger☣ (talk) 04:44, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I am, thank you for asking! Tabs are gone, sidebar is gone, dropdown namespace menu for contribs is gone, monobook skin is gone, it's like not being logged in at all!  Will it ever end?  – Athaenara  ✉  07:54, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * See 31422, but I'm not yet able to reproduce this. Could you post a screenshot of what you're seeing?  Also, try disabling any gadgets and custom CSS/JS. — ☠MarkAHershberger☣ (talk) 12:52, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I forgot to mention that the edit box, which had been sizeable when things were working properly, is now only half page-width and squashed over on the left side of the page. I had exactly two "gadgets" checked (an [edit] link for lead section of page and "+" instead of "new section" tab) and no custom js.  I unchecked the two gadgets and purged, no change.  I deleted User:Athaenara/monobook.css, purged, emptied cache, went offline, and restarted my computer, no change.  I don't know how long it would take me to figure out how to post a screenshot, but I'll pass.


 * Since this "upgrade" which has broken so much there have been dozens of complaints at the Village Pump (and no doubt hundreds more elsewhere). My vote is for the restoration of the previous conditions.  – Athaenara  ✉  22:20, 6 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Another defect turned up: the "you have new messages" notice no longer appears when there is one. – Athaenara  ✉  04:00, 7 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Good news! The drop down contribs namespace selector menu is back!  But that's all that's back: still no tabs, still no sidebar with the globe logo and handy positioning of useful links like what links here, etc.  – Athaenara  ✉  05:10, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

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