User talk:BFDhD

Please see Archive 1 for earlier posts.

Escalator talk page
I think i may readd the sections back to the talk page as this helps to keep track of the history. Or maybe do you want to note, if they have been, that they are on the moving walkway page or something? Simply south 12:00, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree that the history of the escalator talk page should be maintained. It works for me if you want to restore the discussion threads. (I don't really remember what was there entirely, but much of the topics I removed were moving-walkway-centric, and I think they can go on the moving walkway page.) (Shamefully, I didn't move them there, when I really should have!)  Maybe we can have a link to the moving walkway talk page. . . ?  BFDhD 20:40, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Like Blood to the Veins . . . availability
Do you know where I can get a copy of Like Blood to the Veins: Escalators, their History, and the Making of the Modern World? TheSquirrel 18:00, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Very witty
Nice summary - it made me smile! Giano 13:07, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Salem and Mahoning County
That's it? This: http://archive.wkbn.com/firstnews/history/2004-02-24/1100pm/xindex.htm is your reference?

OK, before I go offending people (including you), let me explain. I, too, am a Salem native, and--I must admit--the idea of my city being in two counties seems preposterous. However, I have very close relationships with the (present and former) county commissioners in Columbiana County, and can tell you unequivocally that Salem is NOT part of Mahoning County. I'm very sorry to prolong this discussion, and I hope you are not offended.

I know that this is mind-boggling and can confuse people (the page's history is testament to that), but it seems as if the difficulty almost stems from semantics. The Mahoning County GIS map--though glossy and helpful at first glance--does not clearly prove either of our points, as their legend denotes "city" and "village" boundaries in almost identical colors. That link has been removed from the citation, and I regret that I mistakenly cited it in the first place. However, Salem's own City Hall apparently deals with this question so frequently that they took it upon themselves to directly address it in their "F.A.Q.s (frequently asked questions)" page, which I have included as the appropriate citation. Wal-Mart seems to be a bit of a red herring, which is unfortunate.

I hope that the City of Salem's official stand on the situation will be the final word in our edits to this article, and when they change their official facts, then--of course--we should amend the entry accordingly. I hope that you will agree.

One other thing: I think that it was a bit uncalled for that you chastised my edits publicly--and somewhat sarcastically--in your edit summary. That could and should have been directed to me personally in a discussion (not as a sort of cruel fait accompli) on my talk page. Please contact me on my talk page with any further communication.

Thanks!--BFDhD (talk) 19:55, 23 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi there, fellow Salemite!


 * No offense taken at all, but more importantly I'm sorry if you are offended. Your source for removing Mahoning County seemed a bit arbitrary, and in fact did not (as you note) demonstrate that Salem is not in Mahoning County.  Rather than chastise you, I was intending to draw your attention to an easily overlooked speck on the map in extreme southwestern Green Township.  I myself had to zoom in several levels to really see it.  There, I noticed that the Mahoning County GIS map does show that Salem has annexed a small plot of land (probably only amounting to a few acres) in Green Twp, Mahoning County.  My edit summary was intended to communicate this in as few words as possible; I apologize that in the process I apparently sacrificed an amicable tone.


 * And yes, it was a shock to me as well when I first learned of it on that very article two years ago. Of course we Salemites learned in school all about how Perry Township was carved out of the South Range, and how the now-extant City of Salem was formed from Perry Twp.; and having learned this history, we can point with pride at our odd little notch of Columbiana County.  (No sarcasm intended.)  However, this quick history lesson-- and its summary reflected in the FAQ you cited-- doesn't address how Salem has in this decade annexed additional land outside Perry Twp; and, indeed, outside Columbiana County.  By analogy, we can say that Youngstown is in Mahoning County and be factually correct, but this doesn't address the parts of Liberty Township in Trumbull County that Youngstown annexed a few years ago.  I'll agree that a better source needs to be included if we are to state that Salem is in parts of Mahoning County, but I don't think we should rely solely on the City Hall FAQ as it's not meant to be that technical a source.  Oh, and go Quakers! ;-) -- JeffBillman (talk) 21:17, 23 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I have made considerable changes to the section dealing with annexations; feel free to review. Also, I undid an edit in which you claimed that the 2000 US Census found 26,973 people in the city of Salem.  That may be the population of the urban area, but it's inaccurate for the city. -- JeffBillman (talk) 19:36, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

NRHP
I'm confused about where you're going. Where's your source for the merry-go-round being listed on the NRHP in Mahoning County? It's not in the last database dump, updated in April 2008 — try putting the name in at this website. I can't find it in any recent listings, either, so it's not been listed since then. However, the Burt Building was listed on 2 July last year: see here for its entry in recent listings pages. Nyttend (talk) 04:57, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Just realised that you gave me the reference number for the merry-go-round — if you put the number in the appropriate blank at that first website I gave you, it will yield a message of "This property may not actually be listed on the National Register - listing code is RN". What was your source for the reference number?  If you got it from http://www.nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com/oh/Mahoning/state.html, please be aware that the site is nearly a year out of date: like Wikipedia, it depends on a database dump from April of last year (we can't depend on a later one, as there hasn't been any yet), but unlike Wikipedia it doesn't pay any attention to recent listings pages.  Nyttend (talk) 05:04, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

(unindent) Hi, BFDhD, I've seen yours and Nyttend's recent edits at National Register of Historic Places listings in Mahoning County, Ohio. It's great you are contributing. It seems you must have local knowledge to add some info, which is great, and also some great attention to detail. I just tried revising the list-article to recapture any info that you added which appears to me should be in the article (in some cases with "citation needed" about sources being needed eventually, though I assume you are correct about the facts). And I also revised the list-article to support some info that Nyttend was restoring, such as the Burt Building listing (for which I added a specific reference footnote). It appears that some difference in view between you and Nyttend may derive from your relying upon www.nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com, which I call "NRHP.COM", and which you may or may not know is a private website that repackages public domain data from the National Register. Its most recent update was apparently based on the 4/2008 database that the National Register made publicly available. Nyttend and I rely first upon a different interface, supported by User:Elkman, which also reports the National Register's database, but a more recent version, using the most recently available download from the National Register (from March 2009). Also we use the update info that the National Park Service posts every week, while NRHP.COM does not. I'll comment a bit more at Talk:National Register of Historic Places listings in Mahoning County, Ohio. Could you please check there, and discuss? You're doing great work, glad to have you on board. Cheers, doncram (talk) 06:49, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Please don't take my words as hostile; I definitely appreciate it when people work with the lists for the areas around them! If you have a decent camera, could you try to get pictures of the sites?  A photograph is sufficient to show that a site has been destroyed.  If you look for the Homer Laughlin House on the Columbiana County list, you'll see my picture of the site where the house was, and I think we can all agree that it's sufficient to show the house's destruction :-)  Nyttend (talk) 12:13, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

I did a little more checking on this. It appears that the "Idora Park Merry-Go-Round" was listed on the National Register in 1975, but was later removed from the National Register. I don't know when it was removed, since the National Register doesn't have that information, but it was probably removed when the carousel was dismantled. On the other hand, Idora Park itself was listed on the National Register in 1993 and is still listed. I added the NRHP infobox to Idora Park, Youngstown to reflect this. It sounds like there's a long, complicated history behind this park, so I can understand the confusion. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 19:23, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Judge William Shaw Anderson House
Good job on cleaning up the language of this article. Like tons of others, it was created with incorrect language by a bot, and like many of those "tons", it's never received much information before now. Nyttend (talk) 17:26, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Other properties
And thanks for tripling the number of pictures on the article. Now if you can quadruple it, it will look even better :-) Just curious: are you familiar with the Wikimedia Commons?  Nyttend (talk) 00:36, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the confusion: I removed the "National Historic Landmark" bit, not because I didn't believe that it was one, but because we don't need that information in the comments — that's why we have the NHL color that gives its far left column a different color, and why we include a link to the color code. As for the merry-go-round, I'm not clear why you're uncertain that it's been delisted.  Or perhaps you didn't see the message (I can't remember where it was posted) — the Register gives the place a listing code of "RN", and Elkman, who runs the generator and has a complete copy of the NRHP database, noted that this means that it's been delisted.  Please don't think I'm complaining or anything; I think the reason you misunderstood is that I didn't explain well enough why I was doing what I was doing.  Nyttend (talk) 12:10, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Very sorry to have sounded like I was complaining: I was saying that you reverted because of a misunderstanding, but that it was my fault for causing the misunderstanding. As for the merry-go-round — Elkman is mirroring information given by the NPS, so you really should trust both or distrust both.  If it's not listed by the NRIS public database (are you familiar with this term?  If not, you can find it here), and if it's noted as delisted, it's delisted; the OHPO can't do anything about it.  It still has a page here (have you already been aware of this?  Sorry if I'm telling you what you already know), but notice its listing date of 10/29/1985 and its reference number of 75001482: the first two digits of a reference number are the last two digits of the year in which it was listed, so that date has to be the delisting date.  And through all this, please don't think I'm unhappy or trying to own the article; just attempting to make it so that everything fits the sources well.  Nyttend (talk) 13:13, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You are telling me things I already know. see Nyttend talk page.--BFDhD (talk) 13:16, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I've been seeking to explain this to you because I didn't know if you knew it or not. Thanks for the reminder about Columbiana County.  I've tagged one unsourced bit for sources, but the rest are sufficient: either they're summaries of an already-written article, or (in the case of one house) the picture is enough to show that it's been demolished.  Nyttend (talk) 16:15, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

[unindent] Aside from answering your question, I'm curious: could you imagine a possible benefit to the property owner of having a property delisted? As is, Kent State might be able to write off taxes on the parking lot because the site is still listed. As far as what you've asked — I don't see the reason we can't say "it's destroyed" if we can say "this picture is of the site". Obviously it's been destroyed if the photo is taken at the right site; we don't require me to provide a source for the picture being at the right site, so I'm not sure why we couldn't use this picture as a source. In case you're wondering, it has been destroyed; I asked a man along the street where the house was, and he pointed to the parking lot and told me that it had been where the lot is now. Nyttend (talk) 15:12, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

National Register database
You asked me about my query tools for the National Register Information System database. (I'm sorry I didn't reply earlier; I had a lot of other stuff going on.) Basically, I downloaded the National Register database from the National Park Service site and wrote some query tools to make it much more user-friendly. The main index to my query tools is at this link. The easiest ways to query the database are:
 * Query by city, e.g. Youngstown, Ohio
 * Query by county, e.g. Mahoning County, Ohio

From these, you can find links to the main infobox generator. Or, you can just go to the main infobox generator and type in the name of the property directly.

Note that these two queries return only properties that are actively listed on the National Register. Since there's been some confusion about properties that have been delisted, I just added a checkbox on the infobox generator page that will allow you to check for buildings that have been removed. For example, if I go to the main infobox generator and enter "Dania Hall" and check the box saying "Search for properties that have been delisted?", I'll get the report on a building named Dania Hall in Minneapolis. The listing status is "RN". This building used to be listed on the National Register, but it was removed after a fire burned it beyond repair. A query for "Bridge No. L3040" also says it was removed from the National Register. I found this out the hard way when I drove out to the southern border of Scott County, Minnesota to look for the bridge and I found a brand new bridge in its place. A query for "Northwestern Bell Telephone Company Building" in Minneapolis gives a status of "DO", indicating that the building was found eligible for the National Register, but the owner objected to its listing. (I assume that Qwest didn't want the building listed on the National Register because it would have implications if they ever wanted to make significant alterations to the building, like replacing the eagles above the entrances with vultures that want to swoop down and eat you every time you get your phone bill.) (OK, that's a joke.)

If you have any other questions about the National Register database, feel free to ask me. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 13:35, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Lustron Revisions
I see the recent Lustron article changes. At the same time I realized the lead photo that's been there over a year shows two painted Lustrons. Yikes! This is a glaring error since the Lustron's leading feature was a maintenance free porcelainized exterior. So I hope you agree with its removal. When I get time I will try to upload a better photo. Unless someone else gets to it first.

Also, the model table is a great addition, but this extensive detail comes up too early in the course of the article and perhaps would best go further into the depth of the article after more introductory information is provided for the newcomers. Rickster77 (talk) 15:35, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

En to dash
Do you know why someone would use the coding instead of typing the actual en-dash? Thanks for cleaning these up. Nyttend (talk) 11:10, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

State Route 224
I've lived in Logan County all my life, and I've seen signs, labels, etc. for State Route this, State Route that, etc., and heard people talking the same way. Go to Hardin County and you'll see official signs for State Route 68! I don't expect the official Register people in Washington to investigate that; it's the locals who make such an absurd mistake as that. Nyttend (talk) 21:10, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

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