User talk:Darouet/Archive 2

Reference errors on 26 June
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A page you started (Loganellia) has been reviewed!
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Discretionary sanctions notification - Eastern Europe
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Balochistan
Hi Darouet, thanks for your comment at Balochistan, Pakistan. I think you've hit the nail on the head. I'm not from the region either. Something about the resistance to this content is really funky. Some of the people (Rashidzaman and Zmaghndstakun) who have commented in favor of exclusion have made statements like "This is an administrative province article and should expand on the History, Government, Geography, Fauna / Flora, Climate, Culture, Sports, Religion, Demography and Administration of the province." Aren't insurgencies, human rights violations, poverty, all connected to history, government, demography, and culture? I keep pressing this point with them, but nobody has yet to answer that directly. TopGun made a similar comment, (I think the others copied him) only he left out a few areas of interest: "this is an administrative province article and should expand on the fauna / flora, climate, culture and administration of the province." Anyhow, you're asking the right questions. It's also a little funky to me that Rashidzaman and Zmaghndstakun have not edited much outside of these areas. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:44, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Great new comments at this talk page, thanks for that. You know, another argument that has come up several times without adequate answer, is: Content about human rights violations already exists at the Human rights violations in Balochistan article, so it doesn't belong in this article. My counter-argument had been that we're not limited to only mentioning content in one spot. I've cited the example that Orson Welles' article mentions Citizen Kane, as you'd expect it to. I don't see that anyone answered that sufficiently, but since you represent fresh eyes, I'm curious what your take is. This was an example of the bulk of the content I was proposing on the human rights issue. It was based on the content that an IP editor (who, sadly, turned out to be a sock operator) had contributed. I think an editor had a problem with one of the sources. Can't recall. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:37, 22 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Actually you can't just review content "in one spot." Articles are required to have good summaries of all material that falls within the scope of the article, with additional articles linked next to those summaries. So, those arguments are specious. -Darouet (talk) 03:39, 22 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I think you're fully up to speed now and I'll just shaddap. :) Also, I've tried to get interest in outside opinions by posting at a number of WikiProjects including Human Rights, Pakistan, Geography (I think) and some others. The participation is low, so if you think of other projects to invite, that'd be nice. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:46, 22 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Yeah, for these kinds of issues, getting outside participation is critical. It's also really difficult though. People who don't have strong opinions or some national/ethnic/religious agenda to push are frightened by the high level of editing aggression, and so avoid these issues. As a result, cool-headed, rational and objective people, who are the most needed, are the least likely to participate. -Darouet (talk) 03:53, 22 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm there entirely in my capacity as a gnome. The aversion to include any content about human rights strife, economic strife, etc. piqued my curiosity, particularly because so many people were vociferously against it and it seemed so counter-intuitive. This is probably the only time I've ever been in agreement with someone who was a sock operator. An IP editor kept edit-warring to get the content in the article and started the original RfC. When they were determined to be a recurring sock jobber, people started striking out their comments as you would expect, but I felt the question had merit, so I closed the RfC and re-opened it minus the sock's voice. There's a lot of agenda-driving in Indian/Pakistani content. I have some experience gnoming in Bollywood cinema articles, and it's ridiculous how much fluff, promotion and phony information is out there. Anyhow, blah blah blah. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 04:04, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

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Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Lead section
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Please comment on Determining encyclopedic content
Hello Darouet you left me this message about my WSWS comments you deleted-

"Hi Deschutes, I was one of the editors that removed your section at WSWS. It had no citations from reliable sources to verify that it was true: critical attributes of any content included in Wikipedia. Writing about your personal experiences with a website is a form of original research, and common sense should suggest to you that those individual experiences aren't notable enough to include coverage in any encyclopedia.

All that said, I'd encourage you to use your interest to improve Wikipedia: for instance if you're knowledgeable about a subject and have access to reliable sources that can improve a subject, please try editing relevant articles, with appropriate citations, to improve those for readers. -Darouet (talk) 17:05, 1 October 2015 (UTC)"

Actually I think my experience is notable and worth putting in there. Maybe you work or sympathize with WSWS therefore want my comment deleted? You seem to be kind of biased in their favor in my opinion. Plus if you applied that same measure of "notableness" to Wikipedia in general much of what is published would in fact have to be deleted. There is something rotten about a website, WSWS, that will not tolerate open discussion in its forums and that is a fact. Maybe I can start a blog and gather up all of the people who had their comments deleted under WSWS articles when they dared to question the WSWS author: when I get 100 or 500 I'll come back to the Wikipedia WSWS website and put it in as objective, peer reviewed research with references. But I would guess you'd still find some other reason to delete it. --(Deschutes Maple (talk) 11:27, 13 October 2015 (UTC)). Take care and nice day, Deschutes Maple


 * I don't know what you want me to tell you: yes, your experiences with the web comments section of some WSWS articles deserve to make their way onto an encyclopedia? I doubt they even belong in the encyclopedia of your life, let alone wikipedia. -Darouet (talk) 17:55, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Blue Army (Poland)
Hi Darouet, if I can ask you to refrain for adding controversial statements to the article's intro section. The statement you added, though from a legitimate source, is one sided — presenting but one point of view, and a very extreme version of the event at that. Other sources describe the circumstances of what occurred in a much different way, thus such one sided statements are inappropriate for the intro. What we know is that there was violence directed at the local Jewish communities, the scale, severity and even the number of casualties is highly disputed. Unfortunately, yourself and user Faustian have been very pushy in making this secondary issues the primarily focus of the article. Pls stop. --E-960 (talk) 15:27, 13 October 2015 (UTC)


 * , I appreciate your civil note, however your conduct at Blue Army (Poland) has been deplorable. You ask that I refrain from adding a "one sided" statement from a legitimate source, which you yourself added to the article but paraphrased in such a manner as to directly contradict what the source really says. I left the source intact but quoted it, because there can be no ambiguity in the source's meaning through quotation. However, it appears you have reverted me to again falsely paraphrase the source. -Darouet (talk) 17:54, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

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Answer to your comment to me.
Wikipedia is about information. The writing of journalist is not the only source of information. Yes, for the actual information about what happened to the Kunduz trauma centre we have to go there, but information like the status of a hospital in war, or if treating the Taliban wounded removed their protected status, is available right here on Wikipedia, vetted and referenced. And should be used as a counterpoint to wrong or vague statements by journalists or officials.Jochum (talk) 22:54, 17 November 2015 (UTC)


 * The information you describe about protection status is also available in reliable sources outside Wikipedia. You need to find those sources if you want to write about these issues. That's just basic research protocol. -Darouet (talk) 22:57, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
 * So you are her by declaring that a linked article in Wikipedia including all the reliable references is not acceptable? Why write it up all again? Is Wikipedia not exactly about a wide pool of !linked! information?Jochum (talk) 01:57, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
 * You can link articles, but when you do that you are linking subjects, not verifying information. You can't assume that other articles are properly written and sourced: they may not be. And either way, every statement in every article on Wikipedia is supposed to be supported by a reference to a third-party, neutral and reliable source. That's a good thing. Has anybody shown you how to do this? It's really not so bad, and if you learn how, you will help Wikipedia be a better encyclopedia. -Darouet (talk) 03:15, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback
On the Kunduz page. I don't feel worked up though; do you really think it was a nasty comment? VQuakr (talk) 05:55, 19 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Hey, your comment wasn't unhinged or anything, but "you obviously lack either the inclination or the competence to be educated" just wasn't necessary I think. We've both edited at articles where the editing environment is kind of poisoned and many people act in bad faith - and for me certainly it can sometimes alter my interactions elsewhere on wikipedia? In the case of Kunduz, ironically, I suspect you're somehow onto something, but I would wait longer before dropping the hammer is all. -Darouet (talk) 06:46, 19 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Seems reasonable. I really do appreciate the feedback. VQuakr (talk) 07:45, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

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SWAT article
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Ghouta chemical attack
I just noticed this; I find it rather disappointing that given the caustic nature of the comments by some other editors on that page you are piling on with more accusations of bad faith rather than focusing on content. I would have thought you would know better. What gives? VQuakr (talk) 16:39, 16 December 2015 (UTC)


 * I apologize: I've been frustrated with what looks like the habit of blanket reverting in this article. I also think that you are in most ways an exemplary editor. I'm very busy today but will strike my comments and write something more productive soon. -Darouet (talk) 19:23, 16 December 2015 (UTC)


 * I appreciate it. VQuakr (talk) 21:16, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

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 * Thank you so much for your considered opinion on this talk page, I admit, I am getting out of my depth, in that I have never come across such intransigence on a Wikipedia article. The editors concerned seem to believe that the edits are my position rather than the stated opinion as reflected by the source material, which is:
 * 1: UK legally-held firearms ownership was on the increase.
 * 2: that legally-held gun crime was down
 * 3 illegal gun crime was up
 * Each edit had the associated citation from primary and secondary sources and I thought that was that until the edits kept getting reverted with no reason given. Subsequently, the only other editor editing the article started hypothesizing what the authors 'actually meant', arguing against what they actually wrote in the source material. Also, the same editor stated that calculating from the official stats against the source material was acceptable to remove said referenced material and was not OR when clearly it was. Next thing I know, 3-4 editors appeared all backing his position irrespective of the fact the source material was not contentious, I even had one editor suggest that the removal of an edit by another editor was reason enough to label an edit 'contentious'. Sorry to have gone on but I'm at a loss on what to do next, best wishes. Twobells (talk) 16:53, 22 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi, it's true they're intransigent, but they also have also made a number of valid points regarding the sources. My view is that the changes you are wishing to make are not critical to this topic - if they were, many secondary sources would be available describing this phenomenon. What I think you should do is read more widely to find out if this is really happening, and if many reporters or reliable sources are commenting on it. -Darouet (talk) 17:07, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Hello again, I agree, it is not critical, I never thought it was, however, the source material lays out facts that should be in the article, it is the removal of reliably-sourced reference material that shocks me. regards. Twobells (talk) 17:55, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Sometimes editorial intransigence creates problems where there could easily be consensus. In my view, others on the page have both expertise (helpful) and strong POV (unhelpful) that creates a mixed editing environment. But, to their credit, Keri and NickCooper are very interested in discussion, and that's great. If I were you, I'd hit the books and try to learn more about recent gun violence history and stats in the UK, and find more expert commentary on the topic. I think they'd be open to it and in the end, the article will be stronger for your and their efforts. -Darouet (talk) 18:08, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

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You'll always remember your first

 * Thank you, and for all your great work on the French Revolution, too! I do realize now that my page was in fact vandalized once before, but not as colorfully. -Darouet (talk) 15:19, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Season's greets!


Iryna Harpy (talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas6}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Thanks a lot and same to you! -Darouet (talk) 06:43, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

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Please comment on Talk:Militia occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge
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Hadith
I just read your comment about hadith on the 3PR board. Ty for being understanding btw :D. What would you like to know about hadith texts? FreeatlastChitchat (talk) 03:44, 26 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi thanks for your note. I was annoyed that you reverted my (nevertheless imperfect) background addition, but later regretted reporting you, especially after your self-revert. Ideally, every article on a Hadith should note the tradition to which it belongs, its historical sources and context, some introduction to Hadith in general, and the text (depending on their length), ideally with a little academic and perhaps even theological commentary.


 * It's clear that the article as it was written failed in almost every regard here. Who are the people commenting? What authority do they have? Are the quotes the text of the Hadith itself, or a discussion of it? If I understand your concerns correctly, you are also worried that substandard sources are perhaps being used for some dogmatic purpose, e.g., to prove the validity of one faith or tradition over another?


 * My view of religious texts in general is that their description, in an encyclopedia, should include first a secular historical and literary analysis, and then a religious analysis. I hope that the two sources recently provided can help us move in the right direction. -Darouet (talk) 00:18, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:China
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Galileo Sleepers
FYI: see User talk:Favonian Cheers - DVdm (talk) 11:08, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

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Reference errors on 3 March
Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/RBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/RBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=ReferenceBot%20–%20&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:22, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
 * On the Supreme Military Council (Syria) page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=708136762 your edit] caused a URL error (help) . ([ Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:ReferenceBot/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F708136762%7CSupreme Military Council (Syria)%5D%5D Ask for help])

Please comment on Talk:Gibraltar sovereignty referendum, 2002
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Syrian Revolutionary Front ..?
Dear colleague, I'm rather puzzled by an edit of yours, here, 3March, on FSA, especially where it refers to a 'Syrian Revolutionary Front'. I can't even find an article on that group; but it would have been YOUR job to make clear what that group is, for example by giving it a Wikilink. How do we know, for example, that that SRF is part of, or affiliated with (and what does that mean: 'affiliated with'?), FSA? For the reason that that is all too unclear now, I first remove that addition from section 'History--2014'. If you can be more precise and relevant about that information, of course you can add it again. With my best regards, --Corriebertus (talk) 15:15, 5 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi, the information is in the reference I provided by Cafarella - if you can't access it I can provide the text. -Darouet (talk) 17:44, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Talk FSA
Thanks for alerting me about Talk FSA. I really never knew you were trying to discuss with me on that page. I'll soon run to it and see. --Corriebertus (talk) 16:49, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Hello, Darouet. I've just posted a question, directed to you, on: Talk:Free Syrian Army. Perhaps, you'd care to react on it. --Corriebertus (talk) 20:24, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments on my talk page. I've just posted a proposal on Talk:Free Syrian Army, which I hope can satisfy you for a (great) part, at least. --Corriebertus (talk) 21:54, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

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AN/I input request: Brian Martin (social scientist)
There is an AN/I in which my attempts to get admin involvement at [WP:Brian Martin (social scientist)] are being portrayed as disruption. I see that you edited at Brian Martin.

Will you please post your evaluation of the article to the ANI/I https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&action=edit&section=32 AN/I:WP:Brian Martin (social scientist) : other editor is feeling stalked/harassed. And is also attacking me. SmithBlue (talk) 10:26, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

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Please comment on Talk:African-American Civil Rights Movement (1865–95)
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Please comment on Talk:Josip Broz Tito
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Unblock request
Dear your noble efforts to fight vandalism have left me unable to edit, perhaps via a range block? Help appreciated when you've time. -Darouet (talk) 17:59, 31 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Hello Darouet. So that I or another administrator may assist you, would you please copy the contents of the block notification that you are receiving?  Regards, Yamaguchi先生 (talk) 18:14, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Sure, this is what I'm seeing:

You are currently unable to edit Wikipedia. You are still able to view pages, but you are not currently able to edit, move, or create them. Editing from 70.192.0.0/16 has been blocked (disabled) by Yamaguchi先生 for the following reason(s): Block evasion: This block has been set to expire: 01:48, 2 April 2016. Even if blocked, you will usually still be able to edit your user talk page and email other editors and administrators.

Hope that helps! -Darouet (talk) 18:16, 31 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, thank you. I have adjusted the terms of the range block such that you should now be able to log in and edit.  My apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused.  If you continue to experience any issues please do not hesitate to contact me.  Regards, Yamaguchi先生 (talk) 18:25, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:African-American Civil Rights Movement (1896–1954)
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