User talk:Fayenatic london/Archive13

Archiving
I think I archived my talkpage properly, can you take a look? Thanks.--Mishae (talk) 16:34, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Mishae, it looks to me as if you just deleted some sections. Although they can always be retrieved from the page history, archiving normally means you put them onto another page. There are two methods: copying and pasting, or moving the page. I use the second method, as you can see in the page history here. The main difference is that the talk page history (of actual contributions) is split up between the different archive pages if you use the "move" method, but kept all on one page if you copy and paste. Also, you can get a bot to do archiving for you, using copy and paste. See Help:Archiving a talk page. – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:51, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi again Mishae, I see the tweak that I added seems to have worked. Glad to be of help! – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:56, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Did you liked that video that I showed you?--Mishae (talk) 20:18, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Marcus Aurelius
I saw that an editor had made an attempt to improve an almost non-sensical sentence in Marcus Aurelius, but without succeeding. I went back in the Revision History to October 12, 2009, and found that the first part of the sentence had somehow gotten cut off, so I replaced it. Now the sentence makes sense. I tried to put the link to that particular edit in my edit summary. The information is there, starting with http, but it doesn't look like a link that someone can click on. Can you tell me how to do that? I don't know if you can fix this one, but at least I'll know for the next time. Thanks. CorinneSD (talk) 03:03, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Corinne, a permanent link is in effect an external link rather than an internal link. As far as I know it's not possible to make these clickable in edit summaries. Well done for your detective work, and for including the link in the edit summary anyway.
 * Happy New Year! – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:19, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and the same to you! CorinneSD (talk) 17:24, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year!


Happy New Year! Fayenatic london, I wish you a Happy New Year, and thank you for the good cooperation in the past as also in the future. Beagel (talk) 12:44, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Quick question
Happy new year! The quick question is, is there any practical difference between a 'keep' and a 'no consensus' decision? Marcocapelle (talk) 08:49, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Happy New Year to you too!
 * "Keep" is a consensus which (i) may be a precedent for others, and (ii) discourages re-nomination for a time. – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:43, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay, that's clear, thanks! Marcocapelle (talk) 22:44, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Infobox photo discussion
Hi again. Happy New Year. Can you offer your opinion on which photo is better for the Infobox here? If you're not able to participate, just disregard this message; you don't have to message me. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 00:56, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Category:American female rock singer-songwriters
I strongly feel that a category needs to be there for this. Why do you not want it there? It is not hurting anything, and there is a section for American female pop singer-songwriters; in fact, rock is one of America's most popular genres. Thebuck093 (talk) 19:19, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
 * it's not my choice but the consensus of recent discussions, which was to delete this and similar categories, see Categories_for_discussion/Log/2014_November_11, Categories_for_discussion/Log/2014_November_23 and Categories_for_discussion/Log/2014_December_8. Indeed, a link to one of those comes up when you click on the category name. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:12, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Ted Jensen
Good morning, I have been working on Ted Jensen's wiki page and I see that you deleted family info on there. What was written were facts and I believe it was you who found Carl's name in the Yale journal several months ago and cited it, but now you've taken it down. I did a little more research and found Ted's mother's obituary stating that Carl was her husband, and Ted was her son, and a description of her education etc. and how she and his father met, so if this is cited, can the paragraph I wrote be put back up there? It doesn't read very well now and I think it's important for generations to come to know where some of these pioneers came from and briefly how their love of music evolved. This is Ted's mother's obit. http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/nhregister/obituary.aspx?pid=165917127. I used to work for Phil Ramone and have been involved in the music industry since the early 80's and plan on writing more bios on the folks behind the scenes who contributed greatly to the music and technology we hear today who have not yet been written about on Wikipedia. I honestly would appreciate any help you can give me. Thank you Dmileson (talk) 16:05, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for your message. I see that I stated in my edit summary, Remove unsourced family info. The citations that were given within that para do not provide evidence that the stated info is connected to Ted Jensen. I haven't looked at the new source but if it makes the connection, your proposal sounds fine.
 * The normal process for expanding Wikipedia is to work from published reliable sources. If you are instead working from personal knowledge, it is important that you only put in information that is backed up by such sources, and state them. I hope this helps.
 * I'm going to have less time for checking stuff here in future, but it sounds as if you're getting the hang of contributing well. Keep it up! – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:38, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your help, Fayenatic london! One of my favorite places, by the way! :)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dmileson (talk • contribs) 04:02, 1 February 2015‎
 * You're very welcome! – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:14, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Football
Did you watched soccer match tonight? I did. Just curious if you are into it, like most Brits are.:)--Mishae (talk) 00:02, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Not me, that's one thing I never got into! – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:14, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Merging Laila with Laila Bagge Wahlgren
Laila and Laila Bagge Wahlgren is the same person: Laila_(musician) Laila_Bagge_Wahlgren

I wonder if you can help me merge those two articles, by moving Laila to Laila Bagge Wahlgren. There is some additional info on her Swedish wiki page. Also on this Swedish page This type of work, I'm not so good at. 193.12.5.35 (talk) 01:21, 6 February 2015 (UTC) Creedswede


 * ✅. Thanks for spotting this and acting on it! I have not added anything new from the source that you suggested. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:00, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Deletion of Category:Companies_of_the_United_States_with_untaxed_profits
Hi Fayenatic london, I see you were  the closing admin  for Category:Companies_of_the_United_States_with_untaxed_profits. I believe the parent categories of this deleted categoy were not added to the articles that were its children. Am I correct? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 16:11, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * That's right, as the consensus was to delete the category rather than to merge it. – Fayenatic  L ondon 16:27, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

A Very Sensitive Question
If you don't read the Billboard Book and change the official charts, I will sue you and your friends for fraud and libel of music charts of Freddie Aguilar for $ 2 Million Dollars!!!!!!!!! My Father Is A Very Well-Known Attorney In The Philippines so, be prepared!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by JomartheGreat (talk • contribs) 00:43, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about, JomartheGreat? Something in the page history at Anak? I can't see what I've changed there that you would object to.
 * Please read WP:No legal threats. If you want to discuss something, be specific about what you think should be changed, and ask nicely. – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:12, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

CfD closes

 * Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_January_2

Working on closing cfd discussons to clear the back log today. - jc37 20:13, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah, that's music to my ears. I don't have as much time for this as before. Thanks for the ping; I have finished parenting and populating the new postal infrastructure cats. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:57, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Looking at the page history of: Category:Postal infrastructure in the United Kingdom, it looks like cydebot doesn't know cat pages can be moved now? - jc37 23:43, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Right. Look at CydeWeys' user talk history, and you'll see it has been requested, with majority support. – Fayenatic  L ondon 23:48, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Religious leaders, religious workers
If you wish, please join this discussion. Very surprisingly to me, nobody reacted so far. I've meanwhile also posted it on the Religion project. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:50, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for drawing this nomination to my attention. I think you could simply have created a new parent category. – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:46, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Your close
Hi. I don't think your close on the Jewish Olympics (the Maccabiah Games bronze medalists) here was proper. At the very least conversation should be extended. As to the ! votes on the nom, they were 1 in favor of the nom and 1 against; not a consensus to delete. --Epeefleche (talk) 19:49, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Epeefleche, the !votes were 3:1 which indicated consensus to me.
 * For: SFB, Marcocapelle and Johnpacklambert. Against: Epeefleche.
 * There was also the comment from the anon editor, but they did not come back with a formal "oppose".
 * As for your comment that it should be extended, it had been open for over six weeks. That's plenty. Until your vote last week, the voting was 3:0.
 * Seeing that there was so little at stake, with only one page to be re-categorised, I went ahead and closed it as having consensus.
 * Ah. I see that I implemented the result incorrectly, by upmerging the bronze medalist to "Medalists" instead of removing the category from his page per the consensus. Well, I'll leave it there, otherwise I can't see the point of keeping both the "medalists" and "gold medalists" category. Is this any consolation? – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:44, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Errata. I was (mis)-reading the !votes, in the edit portion where I got lost. As to the !votes, the IP indicated a view.  I don't think it is necessary for the formatting to include the word Keep, or for him to come back and re-format his view.  Also, Marco - who you counted - didn't express a rationale. And the rationale expressed by nom is questionable by wp standards, which was pointed out. As to the six weeks, you are correct ... but I still question whether there was a consensus here.  Given the IP !vote, the zero-rationale Marco !vote, and the substance of the comments (seriously ... the nom is comparing the third-largest international sport events in the world, sanctioned by the US Olympic Committee, with  8,500 participants from 70 countries, to his local event ... there is no requirement that performance be at level x in a sport event ... we would reflect a medal winner at the national sport event of the smallest nation, for example, and this is much larger with much more RS coverage). Epeefleche (talk) 22:57, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I have reopened it, solely because JPL was not clear on his reason for considering it non-defining: notability of the event, or notability of winning bronze. please clarify. I have now voted instead of closing, to merge rather than delete.  – Fayenatic  L ondon 06:00, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Can you perhaps ping the IP as well, if you really question whether the IP has voiced a view that can be counted? Thanks for reconsidering. Best. Epeefleche (talk) 06:25, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I left a message on their talk page. please also clarify your rationale at Categories for discussion/Log/2015 January 30. – Fayenatic  L ondon 11:00, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pinging, I agree with Epeefleche that my vote initially didn't count by lack of rationale and also agree that any objections that people make without formally voting should be taken into consideration while closing a CfD. Number of people shouldn't play a too big role when only a few people react. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:52, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Marco, for your input. And thanks, Fay, for re-opening (leading to the opposite result, ultimately). Epeefleche (talk) 03:24, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Please change back indent level of one of my comments in Categories for discussion/Log/2015 March 22
I don't know why I still have that page on my watchlist, but I noticed that you outdented my reply to when adding a comment of your own in this edit. After RGloucester's attacks on me in AN/I, I don't care to edit that section any more, but my non-vote comment should not have its indentation changed except to match that of the comment I was responding to. // coldacid (talk&#124;contrib) 21:46, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
 * My apologies, I have reverted the indent on your edit timed at 21:46, 23 March. I had intended to do that on a different one. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:56, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you. // coldacid (talk&#124;contrib) 00:07, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:United House logo.gif
 Thanks for uploading File:United House logo.gif. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 23:35, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Hunt color model
Hi Fayenatic,

you undid my addition of the Hunt color model to the Hunt disambiguation page, commenting:


 * not appropriate until there is an article, or at least a mention of Hunt in color model.

Well, there is no mention of Hunt in color model, but there is a mention of the Hunt color model in LMS color space which links to Hunt. (Color model, in turn, links to LMS color space.) That was the very reason I added it to Hunt.

Background: The LMS color space article contained some errors and was a little confusing, so I cleaned it up a bit and thereby added the Hunt color model. All other color models in this article have links (even if no article exists), so I figured this should also be the case for the Hunt color model. Of course, what we could do is link directly to Hunt color model, so that there’s no immediate need for an entry in Hunt.

In any case, it would probably be best to create at least stubs for the various color models and Color Appearance Model, but since I’m not a native English speaker, I hesitate to do much in the English Wikipedia – for now, I just wanted to clean up LMS color space.


 * http://eu.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1119967031.html

I know – this thing even invades my dreams … ;–)

--Uli Zappe (talk) 02:01, 10 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your work, and this explanation! I mentioned the external link in my edit summary to acknowledge that the Hunt CAM was a real thing.
 * If the number of notable colour appearance models is limited, I suggest creating a list of them as a new section in the main article, with their date and a few words e.g. what they are used for, specialist field if applicable, extent to which they have been taken up. Then, create a redirect to this list for each CAM that does not yet have an article. – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:48, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
 * By the way, I was surprised that there was no German wiki page linked to color model. I found de:Farberscheinungsmodell and linked that; it was previously incorrectly linked to CIECAM02. I can see that Farberscheinungsmodell means color appearance model, which is more specific than color model, but as we do not have separate articles for the two concepts I think this is the best way to link them for now. – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:58, 10 April 2015 (UTC)


 * The question is, what is the main article? This would be Color Appearance Model, but there is no such article in the English Wikipedia; Color Appearance Model forwards to Color model. However, Color Models and Color Appearance Models are two very different animals: A color model defines a way to describe colors by a specific set of parameters, e.g. RGB, CMYK or XYZ. A color appearance model tries to model psychological effects of human color vision depending on the viewing environment, i.e. the way colors change for the human vision in bright or dim light etc. This has hardly anything to do with each other. About the only point of contact would be the CIELAB color space, which is a color model (components L, a and b) which at the same time tries to model some very basic appearance phenomena (basically lightness (= L), perceived color difference (= delta E) and chromatic adaptation (Lab values are relative to an illuminant white point)).


 * So it’s quite misleading that Color Appearance Model forwards to Color Model. There should be a separate article for Color Appearance Model. If there was one, I do agree that we could include a list of color appearance models there, and from there link to those which have their own article (like CIECAM02).


 * By the way, I was surprised that there was no German wiki page linked to color model. I found de:Farberscheinungsmodell


 * That does again mix up color model and color appearance model; the correct link would be de:Farbraum. Can you correct this? --Uli Zappe (talk) 15:43, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi, I tried, using a new redirect de:Farbmodell, but it seems that Wikidata no longer allows a redirect to be given as an interwiki link, if the target page already has its own Wikidata item.
 * If you create a stub in enwiki for color appearance model, I could link that to Farberscheinungsmodell. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:51, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Yep, unaware that you already tried, I tried exactly the same, and indeed, it does not work. I have at least removed the incorrect link to Farberscheinungsmodell. Unfortunately, a stub for color appearance model won’t remove this problem, since the issue is that we would need Color model to link to de:Farbraum, which in the German Wikipedia includes a section about color models, whereas Color space also (correctly) links to de:Farbraum. We simply have one German article for two English ones. --Uli Zappe (talk) 16:43, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, if you start an article, I will be happy to copy-edit it for good English if necessary. A definition followed by a list (as suggested above) would be a useful start. – Fayenatic  L ondon 18:27, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Have a look at User:Uli Zappe/Color Appearance Model. If you consider this a suitable starting point, feel free to correct any English issues. --Uli Zappe (talk) 05:09, 11 April 2015 (UTC) EDIT: Better wait with any English corrections, as I still want to edit some of the content, but I don’t know when I’ll have the time to do so. --Uli Zappe (talk) 12:29, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Just wondered if you had seen these articles: Color psychology and Linguistic relativity and the color naming debate. CorinneSD (talk) 14:23, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I didn’t, but these deal with phenomena that are yet another level higher. Basically, we have 3 levels: 1. Light meets the eye, human sensors respond – colorimetry, the most basic, psychophysiological level. 2. The light appears to a human (generally, all human) observer(s) as e.g. a "bright, saturated red" – color appearance/psychology, which is what we deal with here 3. “He found that to men, women dressed in the color red were significantly more likely to attract romantic attention than women in any other color.“– cultural connotations of color. --Uli Zappe (talk) 20:04, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

I put a new version of the article draft on User:Uli Zappe/Color Appearance Model. I’m still not completely satisfied with the article, but cannot spend more time on it now. Please correct any English issues; I’ll publish the article after that. --Uli Zappe (talk) 10:26, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Four questions to your edits:

1. Line 2: "Objectively" was meant to be in quotation marks and not as an emphasis (because, as the subject of color shows, the concept of objectivity might be quite naive) – OK to switch back?
 * OK.

2. Only if all these conditions stay constant will two identical stimuli with identical XYZ tristimulus values – I think a "thereby" is still needed after "with", because otherwise, the sentence could suggest that "identical stimuli without identical XYZ values" could also exist (which they cannot) – OK?
 * Yes, OK.

3. Line 62: It (the Hunt model) had a very significant impact on CIECAM02, but because of its complexity it is difficult to use. – Maybe I’m thinking too “German” here, but it seems to me something from my version (… is difficult to use itself.) is missing, namely the contrast to CIECAM02. CIECAM02, although it took a lot from the Hunt model, is easy to use, but the Hunt model itself is not. Your version might suggest to some readers that CIECAM02 also inherited the complexity from the Hunt model. If you cannot use "itself" here, any other way to accentuate this nuance in English?
 * I suggest: "but because of its complexity the Hunt model is difficult to use."
 * I made it "but because of its complexity the Hunt model itself is difficult to use." for more clarity. If this still doesn’t work in English, remove the "itself".

4. Otherwise, is the article ready for publication from your POV? --Uli Zappe (talk) 12:09, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, thank you and very well done! – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:52, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks! :-) I’ve published it now. --Uli Zappe (talk) 14:54, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Excellent! I changed the article name to lower case, and added categories. Please look up, down and around those categories in case you can find more appropriate ones. What about your draft: do you want to redirect it, or shall I delete it? – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:03, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Please delete the draft, that spares me to look up how to do this (which I always forget …) – Looking around the categories, I find there is a "Color appearance phenomena" category. I don’t know if the article itself should be added there, but in any case, I will add links to the phenomena with an article of their own. If I find other categories, I’ll come back here. EDIT Since some color appearance phenomena I listed do not have an article of their own, the "Color appearance phenomena" category should probably be added. --Uli Zappe (talk) 15:36, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Apart from that, maybe Psychophysics? --Uli Zappe (talk) 15:52, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * OK' I've put Category:Color appearance models within category:Psychophysics, so Category:Color appearance phenomena will be a sibling category. We could add "see also" links between them. – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:55, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, "See also" would make sense. --Uli Zappe (talk) 21:11, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, done. You probably noticed that I linked other pages to the new page, and added a wikidata link to the German page. That's pretty well integrated now.
 * Would you like to nominate it for WP:DYK, so that it would be featured for 6 hours on the main page? I haven't done a DYK for some time, but last time I did, the deal was that if you submit one, you have to assess somebody else's. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:18, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * No, I think the article is too technical to be of general interest. Besides, I have no time left for now. --Uli Zappe (talk) 23:00, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Category:Members of the CPPCC National Committee
Dear Fayenetic, thank you for your excellent closure decisions! Please do not forget executing the second one, i.e. the double upmerge. If you are in the proces or about to start anyway, please disregard my comment! All the best, gidonb (talk) 18:40, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Cheers! The second part is listed for manual processing at WP:CFDWM. Armbrust may do it, as he has a bot which can do double upmerges. If you use WP:AWB, you would be welcome to do it yourself. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:10, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ Armbrust The Homunculus 22:31, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks, Armbrust. You may have noticed that I am working manually through the American rock singer-songwriters, as they do not all need to go in all the parents (e.g. if in a gendered sub-cat already). – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:43, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

RE Category:Cowboy
Hi, thanks for your input re the above very flawed general category ("Oppose, this needs more work than that. For a start, C2C would mean merging the biography articles to the existing Category:American cattlemen. I suggest a full CFD to restructure the contents, with Category:Cowboy culture becoming the head cat of the "Cowboy..." categories. Probably best to propose a split of the nominated category to American cattlemen and Cowboy culture.")
 * You are of course correct. Can you help me go about this. I am sorry for being a pain but I don't even know how to start that process. Thanks. Yours, Quis separabit?  21:51, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

OK, thanks – done. WP:CFD goes into a lot of detail, but the short templates listed under "Edit the category" are usually all that is needed, and easily memorised. Please let me know if you find any of it unclear. – Fayenatic  L ondon 06:31, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

CFD templates remaining
Hi jc37, you seem to have left some category pages tagged after closing Categories for discussion/Log/2015 January 1. Some of them are easily spotted in Category:Categories for discussion from January 2015. Hope this helps.

In case you were not aware, CydeBot is not removing templates after CfD renames at the moment, but using WP:CFDWR after keep/no consensus results seems to be working fine.

By the way, thanks for leaving some good policy-driven rationales on overdue CfDs recently. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:25, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for letting me know. As that was a nom that was "partially" implemented, I didn't think about the tags on the other part. Nice catch, thank you.
 * and thanks. On many, I really don't have an opinion, it's more just to help the closer have "something" to implement that follows current consensus/convention/policy/etc. I'm just amazed at the backlog myself. - jc37 19:54, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Chuck Pierce
Thanks for the heads-up on your nomination of the article for deletion. I appreciate having been given a chance to argue for keeping it. Chuck is quite a remarkable person, extremely well known in some Christian streams, and I think it would be a shame to delete the article. Waitak (talk) 23:41, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

re:Category:Radio dramas
No problem. I thought I'd be bold and close one of the oldest outstanding CfDs, as no-one else seems to bother! Now awaiting someone to tell me not to do closures like that in the future, haha. Happy days.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 17:53, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks
To Fayenatic london: Thank you very much for 'Wikifying' a portion of the Mandel page. When I'm back home tomorrow, I'll get busy on continuing that work. Thanks, again. ReidWilliam (talk) 18:22, 24 April 2015 (UTC)


 * ReidWilliam: I did it in stages to try and make it easy for you to follow. I've just finished number 2 for you. Read the notes I left in the edit summaries (page history) too. – Fayenatic London 22:00, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Fayenatic london: I really appreciate that. Thank you. (I'll keep plugging away on it, until I get it right.) ReidWilliam (talk) 20:27, 26 April 2015 (UTC)


 * By the way, if you don't want your user page to be a red link, but don't want to reveal anything about yourself, you could simply redirect the user page to the user talk page. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:57, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Fayenatic london: Have continued to work on 'wikifying' References section of the Mandel page. (Hope it's looking slightly cleaner.) I apologize that I still haven't figured out how to delete the multiple footnote numbers: [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], that have popped up at the top of References section. ReidWilliam (talk) 22:26, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Fayenatic london I'm continuing to work on 'wikifying' the Mandel page, and am (finally) repairing the footnotes and numbering. (I think I've finally figured that aspect out.) Bear with me, please. ReidWilliam (talk) 20:52, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * ReidWilliam: OK, good, well done! Please don't include external links to the publisher's or retailers' sites for the books; the automatic ISBN links in the bibliography are sufficient. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:56, 28 April 2015 (UTC)


 * E.M.Gregory and Fayenatic london: Thanks to you both for the editing and formatting help re: the Mandel page, and for your latest round of comments. With regard to notability, I've gone back and done a bit more research. Since it sounds like book reviews in major periodicals, significant awards, and work being anthologized are key, I've found some other relevant citations that I hadn't been aware of. These include several more of the author's books being reviewed in Publishers Weekly, Kirkus and The Horn Book; three journalism awards; and an anthology and edited collection that include the author's work. Am working on double-checking the citations. Please, if you would, give me a few hours on this. Many thanks. ReidWilliam (talk) 18:08, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * To E.M.Gregory and Fayenatic london: More to come, but as noted above, I've done some further research. With regard to the notability question, I've added citations for several more reviews of Mandel's books in major journals (Publishers Weekly, Kirkus). Have put these under 'External Links' so as not to disrupt the formatting. As well, I've added citations, under 'Other Works,' for two edited anthologies that include the author's work. One is an older collection of animal related essays in the "Chicken Soup" series, the other a recent anthology of travel journalism. There's another anthology, and two other journalistic awards that have popped up as well; am currently at work on verifying them. Thanks again for your patience. ReidWilliam (talk) 20:47, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * E.M.Gregory and Fayenatic london: With regard to notability, as mentioned above, I've added citations for two more Lowell Thomas awards from The Society of American Travel Writers. Articles of Mandel's for The Washington Post won bronze Lowell Thomas awards in 2003 and 2006. (Not that you perhaps care, but these are, at least given the evidence I've encountered, the premier national awards for American travel journalism.) Thanks for your patience, and best wishes. ReidWilliam (talk) 05:16, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Category:People of British colonial Nigeria
Is there a reason, why you didn't added this category to WP:CFDW with parent? Maybe it was an oversight? Armbrust The Homunculus 18:47, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, that was an oversight – thank you. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:15, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Regarding the removal of Category:Wikipedians
Hi, I would like to know why you removed Category:Wikipedians from my user page?-- Jos   eph   04:25, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * please pardon me for not leaving an edit summary. That category is meant to contain subcats only, not pages. Please feel free to add more specific subcategories from that hierarchy instead. – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:01, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Categories for discussion/Log/2015 April 30
Categories for discussion/Log/2015 April 30 was closed, as a simple merge. Do you think it would be a problem if I implemented it as a double upmerge? Armbrust The Homunculus 13:18, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * IMHO that would be no problem at all. I'll move them from CFDW to /Manual in case CydeBot starts processing that page again. – Fayenatic  L ondon 14:35, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅. Armbrust The Homunculus 16:48, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Neat! For info, I emailed Cyde about Cydebot not working on CFDW, and he says he'll look into it shortly. – Fayenatic  L ondon 18:02, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Category:Caldecott Medal winning works
Evidently you closed the discussion while I was writing. I wonder whether my "Show preview" generated some alert. --P64 (talk) 16:36, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi, no, there was no edit conflict warning displayed to me. – Fayenatic  L ondon 16:38, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I didn't get a notice, but the color shading and footer text appeared between one "Show preview" and the next.
 * By the way, does such renaming create category redirects? If not, does the robot check "What links here?" and fix hard links. (I supposed not, and changed the link in, among other revisions there. It's a redlink because the decision isn't yet implemented, evidently.) I think you may know, so I ask whether any such attention is a waste of time.
 * I'm not sure exactly how the bot works. I think it moves the page, which creates a redirect, and then the bot deletes the redirect. However, if it's a name that is liable to be used again, an admin can undelete it, or any other editor can re-create it.
 * It is part of the admin instructions at WP:CFDAI to check for redlinks and resolve them before taking the item off the bot's task list. It is normally done, but may be overlooked, if busy or if the process is done by new participants at CFD; and there are old redlinks out there that were not checked, from before this was added to the procedure.
 * P.S. If Category-naming people feel it's necessary to insert hyphens between 'Award' and 'winning', it may be useful to refer to a category such as and do a batch? --P64 (talk) 18:20, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I noticed that too and made the same suggestion at Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_March_29, although of course nobody may ever notice it there. If you can be bothered, do use the speedy process, see WP:CFDS. – Fayenatic  L ondon 18:31, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Award categories
There doesn't seem to be a clear consensus on Categories for discussion/Log/2015 March 5. For my understanding, why have you concluded the result is 'delete' with a few exceptions? – Editør (talk) 23:42, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The first two "Keep" votes were for specific categories, which I kept. Crisco's procedural objection was answered, I thought satisfactorily. That only left Peterkingiron in general opposition, a clear minority view. – Fayenatic  L ondon 14:43, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Talkback
—cyberpower  Chat:Online 19:18, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Zee Salaam


The article Zee Salaam has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * No primary, secondary or third party sources, looks like an advert to me. Doesn't address notability either.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on |the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Danger^Mouse (talk) 16:46, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the notice, Danger^Mouse. I see somebody else has improved it already. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:10, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
 * It's fine. I am doing a mass clean up. So if you feel free I have tagged anything wrong, do not hesitate to contact me.Danger^Mouse (talk) 09:16, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Assessment template
Can you please stop using the redirect WP Ireland and instead use the updated template WikiProject Ireland instead? It reduces the amount of work for assessors and keeps things cleaner and consistant. Thanks ww2censor (talk) 09:56, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Will do. Thanks for letting me know it's a problem. WP Bio works fine with parameters, even though it's a shortcut, so I had no idea that using shortcuts would cause extra work to other WikiProjects.
 * May I suggest you propose deletion of the redirect at RFD? – Fayenatic  L ondon 11:06, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Jennifer (given name)
Like Rodger? Jim1138 (talk) 07:54, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Like Articles for deletion/List of people named Jacob. Rodger is an unusual variant spelling; the list should either be made comprehensive of all relevant articles in Wikipedia, or deleted. – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:00, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Closing of Category Climate change skepticism to skepticism and denial
I really wish you or someone else had added a cfdnotice2 to the talk page of some of the articles before the category had been changed so interested editors in the pages could have commented. --Obsidi (talk) 15:56, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Obsidi, for my reference, this relates to Categories for discussion/Log/2015 March 22. The discussion was listed at WikiProject Environment/Article alerts (see Environment/Article alerts&oldid=662735108) for 8 weeks; you may want to add that page to your watchlist, as well as WikiProject Deletion sorting/Environment which is maintained manually.
 * If CFD notice templates were not posted, I sympathise, as WP:CFD does suggest and give reasons for using them. This is something to take up primarily with the nominator, jps. You might also suggest to some of the other participants that they could usefully have posted such notices during the discussion. However, the Article alerts service is currently the main way of notifying members of a WikiProject. – Fayenatic  L ondon 16:20, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I use Twinkle to do all my nominations. It might be worthwhile to have a village pump discussion over whether category nominations are not handled well by Twinkle. jps (talk) 17:05, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * That sounds like expecting too much of an automated process. In a case where it would be desirable to leave notices, I don't see how you would automate choosing where to post them. – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:59, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Holidays
I just noticed that Category:Holidays and observances by scheduling is nearly empty. That should probably not be the case, there may be something wrong with Template:Infobox holiday. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:40, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
 * grovelling apologies, I think that was me. I only intended to remove the scheduling category "to be determined", but the line I took out must have been the main line that populated all the scheduling categories. Please do a few null edits on relevant pages, if you can remember any, to repopulate the categories. – Fayenatic  L ondon 14:24, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
 * No worries! But they aren't the easiest categories and honestly I don't remember any of them by heart. So I opened a considerable amount of random holidays from different subcategories, couldn't find any article with redlinked categories though (with one exception, see next sentence), also tried some null edits with articles that don't have any redlinked categories but that didn't have any impact.
 * The one article I did find with redlinked categories is Advent which has two redlinked categories, but these are truly deleted categories, so they're not one of the emptied still existing categories. If I remember correctly you were saying that these redlinked categories should disappear after a null edit - well they don't disappear in Advent, so perhaps this gives you a clue for further investigation. I'm afraid I can't be of any further help. Having said that, even if this problem is not solvable at all, I would expect that we still have the biggest part of the relevant category information contained in Category:Moveable holidays. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:36, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
 * It turns out that I had misread the conditional logic in the infobox code. It put a conditional link to the category within the article's infobox, but membership of the category was not conditional. In other words, if the category did not exist, there would be no red link in the infobox, but there would be a red link at the foot of the page. Now, I think I have taken away the red linked categories from the foot of the page for duration, but not yet for frequency. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:41, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Good to hear! Anyway I think we should better stop this practice of hiding categorization rules in template definitions. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:25, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Can you find any central discussion of the practice? There are other templates that do it. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:04, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

CFD backlog

 * Ah, thank you, delldot! I'm not doing as much as I was around August and Dec 2014, when we were down to a few old hands. I'm much relieved to see that a few new faces have joined in lately. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:36, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Category:31st-century BC establishments by country and Category:35th-century establishments
I just deleted the 31st-century ones per G7 (just my editing anyways) and moved the 35th one to 4th-millennium BC before deleting it. Thanks! -- Ricky81682 (talk) 18:25, 26 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Well, Category:3rd-millennium BC disestablishments in Egypt won't be fun to clear out but yeah, that's fair. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:04, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
 * In retrospect, I've cleared out Category:3rd-millennium BC establishments in China but Egypt with all those articles, is it really necessary? That's not a WP:SMALLCAT issue. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:06, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I was going to say, "enjoy putting creative sort keys in place! Easiest way would be to redirect the category page to one of the parents, then use Hotcat to update that one and add the other." But you make a fair point; I won't challenge that one. The only potential trouble is that is makes a precedent for others. – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:09, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks (2)
Thank you very much for your of Category:Classical music with an unruly audience response into List of classical music with an unruly audience response. All the best, Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:37, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Commons:File:Saint Zachary (father of John the Baptist).jpg
Hello Fayenatic london, on 19. August 2008 you changed the description of this file from Zechariah the Prophet, old Russian Orthodox icon into Zechariah the priest, father of John the Baptist, with a scroll showing the opening words of the Benedictus. Where did you get this information from? Are you able to read the inscription on the scroll? Obviously, the icon is part of the Kizhi series of prophets, consisting mainly of Old Testament prophets. - Greetings, --Rabanus Flavus (talk) 01:05, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Rabanus Flavus, thank you for correcting this, and for following it up. I copied the info from https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Benedictus_(Song_of_Zechariah)&oldid=665591096 where it remains, apparently incorrect, to this day. Please change it there as well if you are sure – it sounds as if you are right. user:MishaPan added it,  see, but has not edited for the last three years.
 * I see from the file usage links on the Commons page that the error has been followed in hr it pt and uk wikipedias, if not more.
 * If the Benedictus pages will need a different picture, perhaps File:Cappella Tornabuoni, Zacharias Writes Down the Name of his Son 01.jpg or something from its parent category. – Fayenatic  L ondon 18:01, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I haven't got any own evidence about the identification except the iconographic context. I informed Shakko, who was involved in the file history, about the discussion, and he changed the file name and description. Then he changed the articles that use the picture respectively. So there should be someone in each language to notice the errors... --Rabanus Flavus (talk) 21:10, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I've checked the other language Wiki pages that used this image, and most were about Benedictus, so I changed the image to File:Cappella Tornabuoni, Zacharias Writes Down the Name of his Son 02.jpg. The remaining pages that use the picture are all about the Old Testament prophet or the Book. Well done for picking this up. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:54, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks to you! Rabanus Flavus (talk) 14:53, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of List of welders


The article List of welders has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * WP:LISTCRUFT. Anyone can weld - a lot of people do it in their spare time. Don't believe being a welder is notable and in need of a list

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on |the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Gbawden (talk) 08:39, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the notice. I believe Articles for deletion/List of electricians provides sufficient precedent to keep such a list. As this one was a lot shorter, I have merged it into the main article. – Fayenatic  L ondon 10:00, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Russian Winter
Would you mind reading my comment to Sca at User talk:Sca? Sca agrees that "winter" doesn't need to be capitalized, but since it's an article title, I believe I shouldn't just go ahead and change it. What do you think? CorinneSD (talk) 15:11, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * There is a redirect at Russian winter with more than one version in page history, so I don't think it would have let you move the page. Otherwise, it would be fine to do so... but I have made a counter-proposal now! – Fayenatic  L ondon 16:18, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Songs about prison.
I just checked out about half on the entries in the category, results can be seen at Songs about prison. If a reader is actually interested in songs about prison, this category is about much use as a chocolate teapot. --Richhoncho (talk) 19:58, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Many thanks. I replied at Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_May_24. – Fayenatic  L ondon 11:57, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

WP:CFDs
Hi, Fayenatic london, I've been noticing at AN that it's frequently mentioned there is a backlog of cases to close at CFD and I was wondering if I could help. Since I'm not an admin, I could only work on cases that have a consensus to keep. And it might be that these cases that haven't been closed yet involve large groups of categories or are very complicated situations. But, since I know you are a regular at CFD, I thought I'd ask your opinion. I participated in quite a few CFD discussions in 2013-2014 but I haven't been as active this year so I don't think I would qualify as an "involved party". I assume unless it's a Snow keep or Snow delete, an editor doesn't close cases where one has voted. Let me know what you think. Liz Read! Talk! 22:22, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Liz, yes, please feel free to help with non-admin closes. In fact, for the old cases, especially those where I participated, I'd be happy to implement rename/merge/delete decisions if you close any with these results. You could ping me within the close or here, or list it at WP:CFDWM where other admins might pick it up before me.
 * Where WP:CLOSE says any uninvolved editor may close most discussions, it means involved in that particular discussion. You may see that sometimes I only comment or ask questions rather than !voting, as I then feel OK to close if no-one else does so after a week or more.
 * WP:CFDAC is the list of overdue closes, and WP:CFDAI has the instructions for closing.
 * Let me know if you'd like me to review any closes that you make. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:57, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
 * This is just about a perfect response, Fayenatic. I think I will ease into it with the more obvious closes. I really appreciate you being willing to help me carry out decisions and I will ping you if there are particularly difficult closes.
 * I'll go look at some previous closings to get a sense of past decisions. Right now I'm just wondering about instances when there are just a few votes (say, 1-3). That seems too small to be a consensus unless it seem to be a very obvious resolution.
 * Thank you! Liz  Read! Talk! 19:09, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Coincidentally, I just saw a discussion about this at Wikipedia_talk:Deletion_process, but TL;DR and there was no consensus. So here's my advice:
 * If it is straightforward and looks like it had no other votes just because it is not interesting, go ahead and close. If it's 2:1, that can still be a consensus if the majority clearly have policy on their side – cite the policy in closing it. Other options are to leave it open longer; close as no consensus; or relist and notify relevant WikiProjects.
 * BTW, I have just updated WP:CFDAI. Although I didn't write it there, you can now in practice process renames or merges by yourself, simply by leaving a category redirect at the old name, as a bot would then move the contents (although it might take a day or two). Once it is empty, tag the old page with, e.g. . – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:31, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the advice, I hope to get started on this in a few days. Thanks again, Liz  Read! Talk!</b> 14:22, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Much appreciated, Deryck! It was a messy one to sort out. Thanks for your own work on these and other closes. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:24, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Fooian Barian people, society and culture
I thought that this might be a way forward with the ethic group categories for instance of Americans. GregKaye 12:14, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Feel free to suggest it, but it's rather long, and what about history, organizations...? I'd still prefer Fooian-Barian society, since society categories are a parent of people and culture. (Note that a hyphen is needed when the nouns are used as a compound adjective.) Thanks anyway for your support at Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_May_17. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:45, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I may well do but didn't want to add complexities at present. Like you I think that the whole category can fit into "Fooian-Barian society" especially things like organizations.  History fits well, I think, with "culture".  I appreciate your grammar based point and think that you may need to present a reply if you think relevant.  Here are some related Ngrams:  with the last one, on a gender/culture basis I think being particularly interesting to me.  The main thing though is that I think that any grammar rule regarding hyphenation isn't greatly followed and perhaps especially so in association with topics related to locations such as the U.S. GregKaye 07:28, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. The hyphen does not depend on external usage but WP:MOS, see WP:DASH. – Fayenatic  L ondon 11:45, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Institute of Financial Accountants
Hello, Fayenatic london, could you take a look at the IFA article postings? There is a commentary that keeps popping up under "qualification" by a couple of editors. If you could give me your view it's okay to leave it in, I'll appreciate it. Thanks! Audit Guy (talk) 13:39, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Audit Guy: Thanks, I agree with you that it should be removed. As for the rest of that section, this body is hardly showing off their members' expertise if they get excited about a Sage certificate. – Fayenatic  L ondon 16:15, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Fayenatic london, Many thanks. They put it back up after your edit, but I have removed it (again!). Audit Guy (talk) 03:32, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Hello Fayenatic london, the entries have been re-inserted. Not sure what to do, but as I don't want to get into an edit war, I'm leaving it be at my end for now. Audit Guy (talk) 12:55, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I reverted it and asked the registered editor to observe WP:BRD. The page was then reverted by an anon editor so I have activated a feature called WP:Pending changes, which means that (i) anon edits wait for moderation, (ii) other experienced editors will pick up the work and may start watching this page. – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:47, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Mass production of categories
Hi, Fayenatic london, I'm seeing a mass production of very narrow categories (like Category:1669 disestablishments in the Republic of Venice or Category:1669 disestablishments by continent just to name two) by editor Tim! (see Tim!'s contributions). He is an editor with 300K edits and is just churning out these very, very small categories. I posted a notice on his talk page asking him to slow down and saw other warning messages and CFD notices, one of which got the response, "you can nominate it at WP:CFD if you think it ought to be deleted.". But when you are talking about hundreds of categories, this is labor-intensive and it is frustrating work to set about cleaning up after another editor. Usually when I've seen this kind of activity from an account, it's a new account and they have received an editing restriction so they can not create new categories. But Tim! has a huge number of edits, has been editing for over 10 years and is an administrator! So I don't know how to address this and thought you might have encountered this before or have some ideas. Cheers, Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 14:22, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Liz it would have been nice if you had given this more detailed rationale on my page, and I could have explained. If you look a bit deeper you would notice I have only been filling in trees which other people have started, there are really very few that I have started myself. Also given time I tend to fill in categories I have created. 17:31, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Liz, I can see why these sparsely-populated structures look questionable, but they are probably OK as part of a widespread structure. The establishments & disestablishments categories for years BC have recently been amalgamated up to higher levels, but for C17 it's generally fine to have detailed categories by country. – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:51, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I apologize if it seemed like I was going around you. The fact is that I've discussed Wikipedian's categories with Fayanetic in the past and I just wanted to get their advice on how to best address the situation, as I perceived it at the time. I saw all of the warning messages on your talk page and, I'll admit, I didn't think you would be very responsive to my question.
 * But I can see that my concern was unwarranted and I'd like to thank both you and Fayanetic for clearing this up for me. I hope you have a good weekend. Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 21:56, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, you too. Tim! (talk) 06:55, 13 June 2015 (UTC)


 * We're all sweet, then – great. BTW Lzi, that should be Fayenatic, a fan(atic) of Faye. – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:20, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Alterations to IFA wiki
Hi there, hope you are ok. Thanks for your messages. My entries are accurate, and in that sense I would say constructive. As regards the word "practice", the word was not used as a noun. As regards a "reliable source" I have been in this business for 35 years. I am a Fellow of the IFA and have been in public practice with my own business for over 27 years, undertaking every kind of task that comes my way. I know therefore that IFA members can do the same work as the majority of Chartered Accountants, as I have actually been doing that for over 27 on my own with my own business. I trained in Chartered Accounting for a number of years, before setting up on my own. Having done so, I have seen at first hand how things work. My understanding is based on a lifetime of experience, which can hardly be stated to be "unsourced". This is the ultimate source based on real life experience. Thanks again, and all the best. Justgivethetruth — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justgivethetruth (talk • contribs) 10:46, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi, if you were working in public practice to a professional standard in the UK I would expect you to spell it that way as a noun, not "practise" which is a verb.
 * Writing from personal experience is considered "original research" and is not acceptable on Wikipedia, see WP:NOR.
 * Most readers of the encyclopaedia will in any case lack a clear understanding of what the majority of Chartered Accountants do. I am acquainted with the subject but still not clear what you meant by that expression, as AFAIK most chartered accountants work in commerce and industry rather than public practice. It would be more informative and encyclopaedic to state in the article the main kinds of work that IFAs do, with a reliable source. – Fayenatic  L ondon 11:35, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Edit conflict: I was replying to a previous version (before ). – Fayenatic  L ondon 11:39, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi Fayanetic, Institute of Financial Accountants Wiki

Firstly the most important thing there is. I am a Christian too !

A couple of other points of far less importance:- I note that the matter of plagiarising has returned, when I understood this to have been reversed. The way things are this is actually highly defamatory and brings the IFA into disrepute. The 2nd matter is that I note that the same fact I was stating has been stated on the Association of Accounting Technicians Wiki page, and this has not been challenged. This is the fact that IFA members (and those of the Association of Accounting Technicians) are both able to do the work that the majority of Chartered Accountants do. Like I said, I have actually been doing this work on my own in business for over 27 years now. This fact has been accepted on the Association of Accounting Technicians Wiki page, but not the of the IFA's. A fact is a fact, whatever the source.

Many thanks and keep the faith !

Best wishes, Justgivethetruth (Ray Harwood) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justgivethetruth (talk • contribs) 11:54, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I have removed that and another uncited claim from the Association of Accounting Technicians article.
 * The statement in the Institute of Financial Accountants article is based on reports in the trade press of a court case where IFA was proved to have plagiarised ACCA's course materials.
 * If this judgment was appealed and reversed, please provide a link for a report on the matter.
 * Otherwise, as you say, a fact is a fact, and should not be removed from Wikipedia provided it is given due weight and is verified by citations from reliable sources. It is not defamatory if it is true. It is not Wikipedia but the IFA's conduct that brought it into disrepute.
 * IFA does not get a lot of press coverage, so I think this matter should be covered in the Wikipedia article; and the existing mention there seems IMHO to give it due weight. If you dispute this, raise it on the article talk page. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:19, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi Fayenatic, I have not received a response to my last message to you yet. Please understand that I am blundering around on this site and have not even started to get the hang of it yet ! Justgivethetruth (Ray Harwood) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justgivethetruth (talk • contribs) 11:27, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Ray, I believe I have answered all your points: (i) not defamatory; (ii) AAT page changed likewise; (iii) ambiguity over work that qualified accountants do; (iv) WP:NOR. – Fayenatic  L ondon 18:36, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Institute of Financial Accountants Wiki - Justgivethetruth
Hi there again, firstly please excuse my ignorance ! I am not yet familiar with the working of this site. I also have a lot to put with as have chronic continual pain in the back of my right shoulder. This is really debilitating and affects my staying power and ability to function. I have not been looking to produce any bias, but merely been looking for impartiality on the site of the wiki entry for the IFA. From my page it appears you left a further message, but I did not pick it up. I am not even sure which messages are getting through, so I will repeat them. I am myself a Christian and it warms my heart to find a fellow one. We are in very short supply ! This does not affect anything here, but is of course the most important thing there is. I note that the entry on the Association of Accounting Technicians Wiki page regarding the work they cover has been altered, so obviously assume my previous messages got through. Everybody in the practices of Chartered (and other accountants) know the way things work. Most of the work done in the larger firms of Chartered (and other accountants) is done by people who are not qualified accountants. These individuals get paid a pittance, but the work they do is charged out at a far higher rate. The difference then is profit for the firm. There is a serious vested interest of course for the qualified individuals who run the firm, who do not like this fact being spread. I have been in practice myself (along with a number of other IFA members) offering precisely the same services as those of Chartered Accountants. In fact I have picked up a considerable number of clients from Chartered Accountants, who have moved over to me. The "nitty gritty" is providing a source for this fact. In these particular circumstances, I do not know if it would be possible. I don't know if I have the staying power with my chronic pain problem ! The other point is regarding the stated plagiarising of the ACCA syllabus, for exemption from CIMA exams. The ACCA syllabus is somewhat different to that of the CIMA as a matter of interest. As I understand it the decision not to allow exemption was overturned. The whole issue here is that this statement is highly defamatory and brings the IFA into disrepute. I can see no other point in stating this point but to discredit the IFA. Thank you for taking the time to read this and hopefully reply. Justgivethetruth (Ray Harwood) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justgivethetruth (talk • contribs) 13:00, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Institute of Financial Accountants Wiki entry
Hi there, sorry just read your message. Feel so stupid ! Still the last one stands. I feel that the entry on plagiarising is highly defamatory to be honest, and this seems to the the sole intention of the contributor. Many thanks for your time. Justgivethetruth (Ray Harwood) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justgivethetruth (talk • contribs) 13:04, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Truth is an absolute defence to claims of defamation.
 * My intention in reinstating the coverage of that legal case in Wikipedia was to give due weight to what little press coverage can be found about the IFA. As I said above, if you dispute the facts or the weight given to them, discuss it on the article talk page. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:32, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi there, many thanks for your message and useful links. The Christian ones are of most interest. I am only interested in neutral viewpoints, and you will know from the faith that the truth is the truth whether people believe it or not ! Really good talking to you. All the best, Ray (Justgivethetruth) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justgivethetruth (talk • contribs) 14:04, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

User Page or Article
Hi Fayenatic london, When you have the time, may I request your assistance to have a look at this :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ibizea/International_Entrepreneurs_Association This appears to be user page but it is written as an article. Thank you! Audit Guy (talk) 13:40, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * DGG, I see that you deleted Draft:International Entrepreneurs Association last month. Can the above also be speedily deleted? See User talk:Ibizea for a trail of similar deleted drafts. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:37, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I tagged it as G13 and G11; I prefer not to directly delete on my own account. If challenged, MfD is the place. DGG 17:27, 18 June 2015‎
 * That'll do nicely, thanks. – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:31, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Fayenatic london and DGG, many thanks! Audit Guy (talk) 12:47, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Non-free use rationale television screenshot
Template:Non-free use rationale television screenshot has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Josh Milburn (talk) 20:06, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Reverting Category Moves
Would you be interested in helping me revert the category moves I did before you let me know that CFD was needed? I tried to move them back but wasn't entirely successful. I also wasn't sure how to search in my contribution history for ones I moved, so may have missed some: --Slivicon (talk) 14:11, 21 June 2015 (UTC)‎
 * Move Category:Actors from Louisville, Kentucky by gender back to Category:Actors from Louisville, Kentucky
 * Move Category:Argentine child actors by gender back to Category:Argentine child actors
 * Move Category:Argentine telenovela actors by gender back to Category:Argentine telenovela actors
 * Move Category:Armenian television actors by gender back to Category:Armenian television actors
 * Move Category:Austrian child actors by gender back to Category:Austrian child actors
 * Move Category:Arab physicians by nationality back to Category:Arab physicians
 * Move Category:Asian Hindus by nationality back to Category:Asian Hindus

I have restored the above, and the following: Thanks for your co-operation and willingness to follow the process. – Fayenatic  L ondon 14:18, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Category:Asian Hindus by nationality to Category:Asian Hindus
 * Category:Asexual people by gender to Category:Asexual people
 * Category:American video game actors by gender to Category:American video game actors
 * Category:American silent film actors by gender to Category:American silent film actors
 * Category:American radio actors by gender to Category:American radio actors
 * Category:American musical theatre actors by gender to Category:American musical theatre actors
 * Category:American women state legislators by state to Category:American women state legislators
 * Category:American speculative fiction writers by genre to Category:American speculative fiction writers
 * Category:Anniversaries in rail transport by month to Category:Anniversaries in rail transport
 * Thank you for your help in restoring :) --Slivicon (talk) 14:25, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Closing CfD
Hi thanks for fixing my errors. I haven't closed a CfD/AfD in many, many years. I'll make sure I'll do everything properly next time. Gizza <sup style="color:teal;">( t )( c ) 09:48, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Ceylon
The use of the name Ceylon during European control and during the post-Colonial period when that was the official name is not implicated by the recent discussion on the issue. You should remove the speedy nominations, and allow a proper, by process discussion of the issue.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:07, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi John, thanks, I think you are right; I need to revert my close and a lot of subsequent work – bother! – Fayenatic  L ondon 18:39, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Hello, why have all these categories been reverted? Ceylon during the 1815-1948 time period, the British Ceylon era, was the time in question in the discussion. Why have you reverted back on the result of the discussion?--Blackknight12 (talk) 00:19, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * the discussion covered the "Dominion of Ceylon" period up to 1972, with most editors wanting to keep the name Ceylon for 1815–1972. I apologise for using "colonial" in edit summaries after 1948 rather than "Dominion".
 * I misread the discussion the first time, and had to change my close. Before I closed the discussion, you had emptied some categories out of process; I initially thought your edits should stand, but no longer. Please would you revert your changes for the period 1815 to 1972? – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:01, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * To save work, I have nominated at least some at WP:CFDS. – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:26, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

WP:ANI
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Liz <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 22:19, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Institute of Financial Accountants Wiki entry
Hi Fayenatic, just replying to your last message. There are facts that can be entered regarding Chartered Accountants (and others) that would have a defamatory effect, but I would not wish to do such a thing. Neither did I say that just Chartered Accountants mainly employ the services of unqualified accountants, but that all types of accountants do. Chartered Accountants can sign off Company Audit Reports, whereas member of the IFA cannot. That is why I said that IFA members do the majority of work that Chartered Accountants do, but did not say all of it. Chartered Accountants are auditors, whereas IFA members are not. With a general practitioners like myself, I have to be able to do the majority of work that whole firms of accountants (Chartered and others) do. That is because I am in public practice in competition with them. I find it very disconcerting that editors have so little practical knowledge of the subject can wield such great influence. yours Truly, Justgivethetruth (Ray Harwood) Justgivethetruth (talk) 13:09, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Ray, please stop replying on various editors' talk pages about discussion in another place. If you want to make a case about improving an article, do it on that article's talk page. In this case that is Talk:Institute of Financial Accountants. As long as you fail to engage with the discussion there, other editors are doubting your good faith. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:40, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Realtors etc
Please see Category:Real estate brokers etc for discussion on renaming Hugo999 (talk) 00:22, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Tunisian Arabic
Dear User,

As you are one of the contributors to Tunisian Arabic. You are kindly asked to review the part about Domains of Use and adjust it directly or through comments in the talk page of Tunisian Arabic.

Yours Sincerely,

--Csisc (talk) 13:53, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but I only changed a category, and have no specific knowledge that would help me contribute to the content. – Fayenatic  L ondon 19:46, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

American rock singer-songwriters
Sure thing. What needs to be done to them? I can help out. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 19:51, 30 June 2015 (UTC) I might be able to get it done fairly quickly, actually. Let me make sure: the only changes that need to be done are for the articles to be moved into the categories and, correct? -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 19:55, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah, thank you. You seem to have some very fast tools at your disposal.
 * Categories_for_discussion/Working/Manual lists: Category:American rock singer-songwriters to Category:American singer-songwriters and Category:American rock singers and Category:American rock songwriters. I have been doing a more eclectic manual process than that:
 * Males: revise/add categories to end up with Category:American male singer-songwriters, Category:American rock singers and Category:American rock songwriters
 * Females: Category:American female singer-songwriters, Category:American female rock singers and Category:American rock songwriters
 * However, if the article suggested that they were not noted for rock songs, and were already categorised as e.g. Category:American country singer-songwriters, then I would omit rock singers or songwriters as seemed appropriate to me.
 * If that sort of manual labour does not appeal to you, can you just reverse your edits and leave me to work through the last 100? Of course, you may have made other improvements to the categorisation, in which case it will not be as simple as that. – Fayenatic  L ondon 19:59, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * What I was going to do was use a script which does fast edits to move them into Category:American rock singers, Category:American rock songwriters, and Category:American singer-songwriters. That should take care of the lion's share of the problem pretty quickly.  As for the by-gender cats, that would probably require some more manual work. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 20:06, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, so long as you don't lose them from the singer-songwriter hierarchy in the end, I don't mind how you do it. I've been taking so long to finish the task that I'm in no position to make demands on others. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:30, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Take a look at Alan Motley. Is that how you want the categories?  If that's OK with you I can probably move the others in similar fashion in a very quite time frame. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 20:34, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, that would do fine in terms of replacing the obsolete category. Notice that that page is already in Category:American male singer-songwriters, in which case the new category Category:American singer-songwriters should not stay there; can you do a follow up trawl to remove that one from any page that is also in one of the gendered sub-cats? – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:40, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure. I can do that this evening.  Although I thought the by-gender categories were non-diffusing? -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 20:48, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh. I have not been treating them that way, as you can tell. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:50, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, whichever you prefer. Meantime, the category is now cleared out. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 20:52, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * My word, that was fast! I see those cats have been tagged as non-diffusing since Feb and May 2015, which is after I had started re-categorising the pages, so I think my ignorance was excusable. I suggest we leave things as they are, and assume in good faith that the editors who added the tags dealt with any consequent requirements. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:22, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * OK. I won't do any more gender categorization, then.


 * Incidentally, the tool I used is open to anyone who wants to use it. See here - it's Cat-a-Lot.  It can be very, very useful for performing a bunch of edits simultaneously, but it is very powerful.  Still, it's worth giving a try. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 21:29, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Pre-annexation Texas
I nominated the categories such as Category:1837 in Texas for changing. Category:1830s in Texas is complex, because for part of the 1830s Texas was an integral part of Mexico.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:01, 1 July 2015 (UTC)