User talk:Jayron32/Archive23

Need uninvolved admin
..to patrol this case which is a no-brainer as checkuser has confirmed sock of banned user. Those who know about this case are involved. The sock remains unblocked. Cheers, ⋙–Berean–Hunter—►  18:09, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅. Bagged and tagged.  Feel free to close the case.  -- Jayron  32  18:13, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you...I had been waiting quite a while to see if any random patrollers happened by. :) ⋙–Berean–Hunter—►  18:23, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

The Celtic question
Hi there, Jayron.

I was quite surprised at the spleen with which you seem to have invested your answer to the question about the pronunciation of Celtics. On the one hand you give those who use the hard C the choice between being idiots or pretentious pricks, which is not great. But on the other hand, you say that neither /keltic/ nor /seltic/ is wrong. Those two statements just don't sit well together.

If it's not wrong to say /keltic/ - whether that be at a Boston Celtics game or anywhere else - then it seems to me that if anyone got upset about it, they'd be the ones more deserving of those names you used, not the speaker of the word.

Or are you saying that neither pronunciation is wrong per se, but one must pick and choose where to use them appropriately? I could certainly support that statement. For example, I'm a proud /kelt/ and I don't like being called a /selt/, but if I went to a Celtics game, I'd certainly be saying /seltics/ because when in Rome ...

By the way, a word to the wise. If you're going to be referring to others as idiots, writing "that's your" when you really mean "that you're" sort of invites people who have not come across you before to wonder just who the real idiot is - and we can't have that.

Cheers. -- ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  06:29, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, you are correct. -- Jayron  32  11:54, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

LOL
This edit summary genuinely made me laugh out loud :-) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:19, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

You've got mail!
Sarah (talk) 22:51, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!

 * Well thank you!

The Tea Leaf - Issue Four
Hi! Welcome to the fourth issue of The Tea Leaf, the official newsletter for the Teahouse!


 * Teahouse pilot wraps up after 13 weeks After being piloted on English Wikipedia starting in February, the Teahouse wrapped up its pilot period on May 27, 2012. We expect this is just the beginning for the Teahouse and hope the project will continue to grow in the months to come!

Thank you and congratulations to all of the community members who participated - and continue to participate!


 * What you've all been waiting for: Teahouse Pilot Report is released! We look forward to your feedback on the methodology and outcomes of this pilot project.
 * ....and if a pilot report wasn't enough, the Teahouse Pilot Metrics Report is out too! Dive into the numbers and survey results to learn about the impact the Teahouse has made on English Wikipedia.
 * Teahouse shows positive impact on new editor retention and engagement
 * 409 new editors participated during the entire pilot period, with about 40 new editors participating in the Teahouse per week.
 * Two weeks after participating, 33% of Teahouse guests are still active on Wikipedia, as opposed to 11% of a similar control group.
 * New editors who participated in the Teahouse edit 10x the number of articles, make 7x more global edits, and 2x as much of their content survives on Wikipedia compared to the control group.


 * Women participate in the Teahouse 28% of Teahouse participants were women, up from 9% of editors on Wikipedia in general, good news for this project which aimed to have impact on the gender gap too - but still lots to be done here!
 * New opportunities await for the Teahouse in phase two as the Teahouse team and Wikipedia community examine ways to improve, scale, and sustain the project. Opportunities for future work include:
 * Automating or semi-automating systems such as invites, metrics and archiving
 * Experimenting with more ways for new editors to discover the Teahouse
 * Building out the social and peer-to-peer aspects further, including exploring ways to make answering questions easier, creating more ways for new editors to help each other and for all participants to acknowledge each other's efforts
 * Growing volunteer capacity, continuing to transfer Teahouse administration tasks to volunteers whenever possible, and looking for new ways to make maintenance and participation easier for everyone.

You are receiving The Tea Leaf after expressing interest or participating in the Teahouse! To remove yourself from receiving future newsletters, please remove your username here. Sarah (talk) 16:43, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Want to know how you can lend a hand at the Teahouse? Become a host! Learn more about what makes the Teahouse different than other help spaces on Wikipedia and see how you can help new editors by visiting here.
 * Say hello to the new guests at the Teahouse. Take the time to welcome and get to know the latest guests at the Teahouse. Drop off some wikilove to these editors today, as being welcomed by experienced editors is really encouraging to new Wikipedians.

Teahouse Talkback
I was just wondering if you were aware of the Teahouse Talkback Script that allows you to leave a talkback notice without having to first navigate away from the teahouse page? Ryan Vesey Review me!  15:51, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * For clarification, I left this because I realized we both used different section headings on a talkback so it appeared that yours was done manually. Ryan Vesey Review me!  15:52, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * What is this black magic of which you speak? Young whippersnapper, bringing your new-fangled "script" into the world.  Bah.  For the record, I'm sure such a thing exists.  I've been at Wikipedia for over 6 years, and every single edit has been a manual one.  Ever see an 80 year old try to make a phone call on an i-phone for the first time?   Yeah, that's me. -- Jayron  32  16:08, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I've got to say, that's pretty impressive. Ryan Vesey Review me!  16:21, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It hasn't caused me any problems. I get by.  -- Jayron  32  16:22, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Doc Jazz article
Hello Jayron32,

I want to write a new article about the musician Doc Jazz and got this message:

"A page with this title has previously been deleted. If you are creating a new page with different content, please continue. If you are recreating a page similar to the previously deleted page, or are unsure, please first contact the deleting administrator using the information provided below. 03:07, 11 September 2010 Jayron32 (talk | contribs) deleted page Doc Jazz (A7: No explanation of the subject's significance (real person, animal, organization, or web content): I checked the author's claims of article on Dutch Wikipedia. It is nearly identical to this one, and thus adds nothing to claims of signif)"

The version I'm writing is not the same as the Dutch one at all. I would like to upload the article can you tell me if there were any other matters that were subject to your decision to delete the article besides the content being the same as the Dutch version? Thank you in advance.

Best regards,

Justice1st — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justice1st (talk • contribs) 12:58, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi Jayron32. Thank you for your suggestion on how to write the article. I took your advice and wrote the article using the userspace draft. I could use some help though. The layout looks different in the preview then it does in the space where I wrote the article. The spaces between the paragraphs are too narrow and the references are all in one line in stead of each numbered reference starting a new line. Could you please help me? And also if you have any other feedback I would love to hear it. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justice1st (talk • contribs) 16:34, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi Jayron32. If you have time could you please check the message above this one and let me know if you can help me out with the article I wrote? Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justice1st (talk • contribs) 15:31, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi Jayron32, thank you for your excellent feedback. I have submitted the article. I also wanted to let you know that all the links I refer to in my article are by mainstream media. Now all I have to do is wait for the editor to improve my article. I want to thank you for your help. I really appreciate it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justice1st (talk • contribs) 18:32, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Another ... sigh ... question from a beginner
Hi, you answered my question yesterday (in the teahouse) about making my sandbox practice into a real article (why does this sound like the Velveteen Rabbit?) by moving it. BUT the move it page information makes me think I might lose my sandbox, or that my sandbox will somehow become part of the article... Moreover, among all the reasons for moving a page, my reason doesn't seem to be on the list. So before I do something dumb, can you help me? BThomascall (talk) 13:57, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Educating PR folks
Hi Jay. I saw that you attended a Raleigh meetup and wondered if you were interested in participating in the 2012 North Carolina PR & Marketing Seminar to educate PR professionals on COI issues. This is me and more on me here. You can see some of my COI works here, here and here. They invited me to speak on a session on Wikipedia ethics for marketing professionals in a sort of panel discussion of sorts and it would be great to get a local Wikipedian there. Are you local to the triangle and potentially interested in participating? User:King4057 01:47, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

WikiCup 2012 June newsletter
Apologies for the lateness of this letter; our usual bot wasn't working. We are now entering round 4, our semi-finals, and have our final 16. A score of 243 was required to reach this round; significantly more than 2011's 76 points, and only a little behind 2010's 250 points. By comparison, last year, 150 points in round 4 secured a place in the final; in 2010, 430 were needed. Commiserations to Pool A's, who scored 242 points, missing out on a place in the round by a whisker. However, congratulations to Pool B's, whose television articles have brought him another round victory. Pool A's came second overall, with an impressive list of biological did you knows, good articles and featured articles. Third overall was Pool D's, with a long list of contibutions, mostly relating to baseball. Of course, with the points resetting every round, the playing field has been levelled. The most successful Pool was Pool D, which saw seven into the final round. Pool B saw four, C saw three and Pool A saw only the two round leaders.

A quick note about other competitions taking place on Wikipedia which may be of interest. There are 13 days remaining in the June-July GAN backlog elimination drive, but it is not too late to take part. August will also see the return of The Core Contest- a one month long competition first run in 2007. While the WikiCup awards points for audited content on any subject, The Core Contest about is raw article improvement, focussing heavily on the most important articles on Wikipedia. As ever, if you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on WikiCup/Reviews. Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn (talk • email) and The ed17 (talk • email) 10:58, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Hello.
For legal reasons, can I get my accounts renamed or deleted?

If not, I'll have to get legal aid to remove or rename them per right to vanish policy.

Sockpuppet investigations/Grace Saunders/Archive

3-FreeBee (talk) 15:19, 23 June 2012 (UTC) Moved from your user page - Dank (push to talk) 16:17, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Not my problem. If you want to vanish, just stop coming by Wikipedia.  -- Jayron  32  02:36, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Courtesy Notice
I have quoted you and mentioned your name at this this ANI thread. Peace.-- — Keithbob • Talk  • 13:44, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Not sure I have much to added. Your quote sums up my opinion on the matter already; not much has changed in a year.  Given the length of the thread, anything I add there would be like pissing in the ocean at this point, but thanks for the heads up.  -- Jayron  32  17:07, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Quick protect
Could you do a quick semi-protect on Sage Stallone?--Canoe1967 (talk) 02:51, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I looked it over. It's kinda borderline, I saw some good activity in the past few days mixed in with the nonsense, but I've given it a short semiprotection to keep the recent batch of crazies at bay.  I hope this works for you.  -- Jayron  32  02:54, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I listed it for PP and also left a note at ANI about admin being bold and just slapping a protection on in such cases. I have seen them revert without protecting.--Canoe1967 (talk) 03:32, 18 July 2012 (UTC) ✅

What's repoly.? 14.97.56.134 (talk) 00:37, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It is how the word "reply" is spelled when you have fat fingers and press the "o" button inadvertantly when you were aiming for the "p" button. See typographical error for more details.  -- Jayron  32  00:41, 19 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Man, I was just joking.You don't have to reply to jokes.:-) 14.97.56.134 (talk) 00:44, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * You know what is even more fun then telling jokes? Feigning ignorance that it was a joke, and watching the response of people who think you didn't think it was a joke.  You know what is even more fun than that?  Telling people you did that and then having them think you're bullshitting them.  I have ways of fucking with people that no one else has invented yet.  Booyeah.  -- Jayron  32  00:51, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Reference_desk/Entertainment
Hey, what's the meaning of this idiom more than you can shake a stick at?Xentram (talk) 00:59, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It is a common idiom meaning "More than you can possibly use". See more than one can shake a stick at.  Given the topic of the question, I chose that idiom because of the clear double entendre.  That is, when you say "It's more than you can shake a stick at," I was letting the OP know that he'd find more porn than he could ever need.  And I was also indicating that I expected there would be some actual shaking of his own stick (stick meaning penis, shaking his stick being a crude way to imply he'd be masturbating), given the usual use for internet porn.  Capice?  -- Jayron  32  01:09, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I understood.I thought that you used this idiom in dirty way.but, hey, "stick meaning penis, shaking his stick being a crude way to imply he'd be masturbating" such adult things can be talked on Wikipedia with a minor like me? Xentram (talk) 01:14, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I have no idea how old you are. You can lie about any age you'd like to be.  That's what the internet is for, n'est ce pas?  -- Jayron  32  01:16, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

interesting edit
You may find it interesting that the recent gibberish on the miscellaneous ref desk has appeared under the name of a brand new editor who saw fit to erase his own autosignature here:. I smell a duck. μηδείς (talk) 03:55, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you're a little bit jumpy. I'm not going to say you're wrong, but saying that doesn't mean that I am not saying you are correct either.  If you are correct, he'll show his ass soon enough.  Let's just hold judgement until we get more evidence.  -- Jayron  32  03:59, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Decatastrophizing CSD
Are custom speedy deletion rationales no longer allowed or something?— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 20:57, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
 * They never have been, per se. The only valid reasons for speedy deletions are the enumerated ones.  If you can't idetify on of the enumerated rationales for speedy delting an article, you need to use the slower processes.  This is because deletion is an aggressive and uninviting process, and we want to make sure that we are deliberative where we need to be.  For that reason, we should only speedily delete an article for a very limited number of reasons.  That does not mean that I think it shouldn't be deleted.  And saying that doesn't mean that I think it should.  I have no opinion one way or another.  But if it should be deleted, it should be considered by more than one person's opinion, because it doesn't meet the speedy deletion requirements.  -- Jayron  32  03:29, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Wikify: July Newsletter and August Drive

 * EdwardsBot (talk) 21:26, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Dunmore War
Jayron Thanks for finding this wonderful book on the Dunmore War. I am looking for Peter Hull and Peter Zickafoose. They served under a commander named Wilson who was killed at Point Pleasant. They were Roll #64 for Augusta County in West Virginia. They were listed as being paid in the Dunmore War in 1774 and not the American Revolution in 1775. We are trying to find them to verify information for acceptance in the DAR. Any other help you can give would be greatly appreciated.Moseleysr (talk) 02:49, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

WikiCup 2012 July newsletter
We're approaching the beginning of 2012's final round. Pool A sees as the leader, with 300 points being awarded for the featured article Bivalvia, and Pool B sees  in the lead, with 10 good articles, and over 35 articles eligible for good topic points. Pool A sees in second place with a number of articles relating to baseball, while Pool B's  follows Grapple X, with a variety of contributions including the high-scoring, high-importance featured article on the 2010 film Pride & Prejudice. Ruby2010, like Grapple X, also claimed a number of good topic points; despite this, not a single point has been claimed for featured topics in the contest so far. The same is true for featured portals.

Currently, the eighth-place competitor (and so the lowest scorer who would reach the final round right now) has scored 332, more than double the 150 needed to reach the final round last year. In 2010, however, 430 was the lowest qualifying score. In this competition, we have generally seen scores closer to those in 2010 than those in 2011. Let's see what kind of benchmark we can set for future competitions! As ever, if you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on WikiCup/Reviews. Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn (talk • email) and The ed17 (talk • email) 22:26, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

The Great Revival: CVU Vandalism Studies Project
Hi! We're dropping you this rather unexpected message on your talk page because you signed up (either quite a while ago or rather recently) to be a member of the Vandalism Studies project. Sadly, the project fell into semi-retirement a few years ago, but as part of a new plan to fix up the Counter-Vandalism Unit, we're bringing back the Vandalism Studies project, with a new study planned for Late 2012! But we need your help. Are you still interested in working with us on this project? Then please sign up today! (even if you signed up previously, you'll still need to sign up again - we're redoing our member list in order to not harass those who are no longer active on the Wiki - sorry!) If you have any questions, please leave them on this page. Thanks, and we can't wait to bring the project back to life! -Theopolisme (talk) & Dan653 (talk), Coordinators

ANI
I think I piggybacked your protection somehow. I was setting it for 3 hours semi-protection. Feel free to change it to whatever it was you were setting it for. Weird, thought it would had prompted me that you had just done it. Kindly Calmer   Waters  03:44, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I set it for 3 hours as well, a few minutes before you did. No big whoop.  It's all good.  -- Jayron  32  03:49, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool. Great minds think alike and all that ... :) Take care Jayron Calmer   Waters  03:56, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I saw you both double-teaming the protection and just figured you were making REALLY sure it stuck. ;> Cheers! --Tgeairn (talk) 04:58, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Page Triage newsletter
Hey all. Some quick but important updates on what we've been up to and what's coming up next :).

The curation toolbar, our Wikimedia-supported twinkle replacement. We're going to be deploying it, along with a pile of bugfixes, to wikipedia on 9 August. After a few days to check it doesn't make anything explode or die, we'll be sticking up a big notice and sending out an additional newsletter inviting people to test it out and give us feedback :). This will be followed by two office hours sessions - one on Tuesday the 14th of August at 19:00 UTC for all us Europeans, and one on Wednesday the 15th at 23:00 UTC for the East Coasters out there :). As always, these will be held in #wikimedia-office; drop me a note if you want to know how to easily get on IRC, or if you aren't able to attend but would like the logs.

I hope to see a lot of you there; it's going to be a big day for everyone involved, I think :). I'll have more notes after the deployment! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 20:09, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

The Tea Leaf - Issue Five
Hi! Welcome to the fifth edition of The Tea Leaf, the official newsletter of the Teahouse!


 * Guest activity increased in July. Questions are up from an average of 36 per week in June to 43 per week in July, and guest profile creation has also increased. This is likely a result of the automatic invite experiments we started near the end of month, which seeks to lessen the burden on hosts and other volunteer who manually invite editors. During the last week of July, questions doubled in the Teahouse! (But don't let that deter you from inviting editors to the Teahouse, please, there are still lots of new editors who haven't found Teahouse yet.)
 * More Teahouse hosts than ever. We had 12 new hosts sign up to participate at the Teahouse! We now have 35 hosts volunteering at the Teahouse. Feel free to stop by and see them all here.
 * Phase two update: Host sprint. In August, the Teahouse team plans to improve the host experience by developing a simpler new-host creation process, a better way of surfacing active hosts, and a host lounge renovation. Take a look at the plan and weigh in here.
 * New Teahouse guest barnstar is awarded to first recipient: Charlie Inks. Using the Teahouse barnstar designed by Heatherawalls, hosts hajatvrc and Ryan Vesey created the new Teahouse Guest Barnstar. The first recipient is Charlie Inks, for her boldness in asking questions at the Teahouse. Check out the award in action here.
 * Teahouse was a hot topic at Wikimania! The Teahouse was a hot topic at Wikimania this past month, where editor retention and interface design was heavily discussed. Sarah and Jonathan presented the Teahouse during the Wikimedia Fellowships panel. Slides can be viewed here. A lunch was also held at Wikimania for Teahouse hosts.

As always, thanks for supporting the Teahouse project! Stop by and visit us today!

You are receiving The Tea Leaf after expressing interest or participating in the Teahouse! To remove yourself from receiving future newsletters, please remove your username here. SarahStierch (talk) 08:28, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

A beer for you!

 * Awesome. Mooch ass grassy ass! -- Jayron  32  05:24, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
SarahStierch (talk) 23:15, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Grazie... -- Jayron  32  00:59, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

New Pages newsletter
Hey all :)

A couple of new things.

First, you'll note that all the project titles have now changed to the Page Curation prefix, rather than having the New Pages Feed prefix. This is because the overarching project name has changed to Page Curation; the feed is still known as New Pages Feed, and the Curation Toolbar is still the Curation Toolbar. Hopefully this will be the last namechange ;p.

On the subject of the Curation Toolbar (nice segue, Oliver!) - it's now deployed on Wikipedia. Just open up any article in the New Pages Feed and it should appear on the right.

It's still a beta version - bugs are expected - and we've got a lot more work to do. But if you see something going wrong, or a feature missing, drop me a note or post on the project talkpage and I'll be happy to help :). Thanks! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 00:12, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Wikify and the future of wikification
Hi! There is an ongoing proposal at the project talkpage concerning the future of wikification, including possible deprecation of the wikify template which is being discussed at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2012 August 10. Your input would be greatly appreciated!

You are receiving this message because you are listed as an active member of the wikify project. To update your status, go here.

Delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 15:45, 12 August 2012 (UTC) on behalf of Project Wikify


 * In response to your concern, regardless of the outcome of the TfD, Category:Articles covered by WikiProject Wikify should exist and will cover the same problems currently found in Category:Articles that need to be wikified. Ryan Vesey 04:51, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Your input is requested at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/HostBot 2
Thought you might be interested in weighing in on the invites v. welcomes thread? - J-Mo Talk to Me   Email Me  21:31, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Changing another editor's post
I made i promise i wouldn't, and that's why i didn't. :P benzband  ( talk ) 20:21, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

baby death, and other stories
Jayron,

I think the question I reverted is actually pretty clear vandalism/trolling. You just have to look at the first revision the IP made to see it. Did you see this revision? - J-Mo Talk to Me   Email Me  05:16, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * If you think the question's legitimate (as I don't), could you perhaps answer it? It's kind of killing me having an unanswered question titled 'baby death' at the top of the Q&A board. :) - J-Mo  Talk to Me   Email Me  05:24, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Nice reply. Much more decorous than I could have been. - J-Mo  Talk to Me   Email Me  05:32, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't see any definition where it could have been vandalism, so that's a bit of a problem. Thanks Jayron for providing standard handling. Franamax (talk) 05:34, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * (response to comment #2 above, after multiple edit conflicts) Yes, I saw both. The first post explains the second post quite well.  He was "clinically dead" as an infant, and was revived, and is looking for information on other similar cases as his own.  Asking questions like that is clearly not vandalism.  He's a curious person and looking for information, and people who do that shouldn't be told they are vandalizing Wikipedia.  Wikipedia is here to provide information, and we should help them find it, or if we can't, we should let people who can do so.  and look, it wasn't hard.  -- Jayron  32  05:35, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Still looks like trolling to me. But thanks again for addressing it. - J-Mo  Talk to Me   Email Me  05:40, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, to be honest, that's why WP:AGF exists. Even if I thought it was trolling, I would still have answered it the same way.  If it was trolling, and I was wrong, there's no harm done.  If it was an honest question, and I wrongly answer it like it was trolling, then there IS a lot of harm done.  So, judging by which side is less damaging if I screw up, I usually try to answer questions as though they are legit.  Even if I think it might be trolling, it does no harm to give the kind answer.  -- Jayron  32  05:44, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Word. I knee-jerk reacted. - J-Mo  Talk to Me   Email Me  05:47, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It's all good. Don't sweat the small stuff.  -- Jayron  32  05:48, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

NC music venues navbox
Hello- Thanks for the additions and updates to this navbox! I was really hoping others would contribute to make them better. I only have up the VA and NC ones right now because I know the most about those. I made them for most states if you want to give them a look, just look for "Template:Music venues of [State]" I like that you added venues, also that you made the categories a little more accurate, I might do that with some others as well. Thanks again! UselessToRemain (talk) 17:29, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for noticing. Just contributing where I can.  -- Jayron  32  19:21, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
SarahStierch (talk) 06:12, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Tours
Hiyo. Re: that reference desk thread. I'm contemplating writing a note on the talkpage of each of those 3 existing lists (and/or their main "concert tour" lists), inviting the editors to consider merging the sub-lists, and pointing to the referencedesk thread as a rationale for merging. Good plan? Any suggestions or advice before I do so? Ta :) -- Quiddity (talk) 07:48, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, don't use me as a rationale for anything. I'm a world-class bullshitter.  It doesn't mean that I'm not trying in earnest  to be correct, but I'd rather I wasn't used as a justification for your plans to change anything.  Which is not to say that you should or shouldn't do anything, but leave me out of it... -- Jayron  32  11:43, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hehe, that's exactly why I was asking before doing anything. Aren't I nice! ;) Okay, I'll raise the possibility with them some later day, without mentioning the refdesk thread. Thanks for the answers there though, twas helpful. ttfn, -- Quiddity (talk) 23:28, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism Studies Update - August 2012
Hello, members of the Vandalism Studies Project! As some of us are quite new with the Vandalism Studies project, it would make sense for us to re-read some of the past studies, as well as studies outside the project. Please do so if you have a chance, just so we can get into the groove of things. We're planning on attempting to salvage the Obama study (or possibly simply convert it to a new Romney study), as well as hopefully begin our third study this November. If you have any ideas for Study 3, please suggest them! If you have any questions please post them on the project talk page. Thanks, and happy editing - we can't wait to begin working on the project! --Dan653 (talk) and  Theo polisme  :) 11:31, 24 August 2012 (UTC) If you would like to stop receiving Vandalism Studies newsletters, please remove your name from the member list.

A barnstar for you!

 * Thanks! -- Jayron  32  19:15, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

About ITN and BLP
Just want to clarify that I wasn't suggesting that you were saying what happened at that image at ITN wasn't a BLP violation. It's just that the discussion suggested the possibility there were people who did think so. (I was really not sure of the best place to indent that comment, which may have made it seem more directed at you than I meant it.) Heimstern Läufer (talk) 09:49, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, I know. I got that.  The thing that I was trying to get across to FPAS especially (and he got it, so there's no problem), is that there are a diversity of opinions on the matter, and it doesn't pay to take the stance that one's own opinion is so self-evident as to demand action to remedy it.  I actually agree with his point, but it isn't helpful to act as though people who didn't agree weren't worth listening to, or that one should act as though their opinions didn't matter.  But yeah, I understood you, we're good here.  -- Jayron  32  13:31, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Why thanks. We aim to please.  Or as the lady who cleans the commode often says "You aim too, please".  -- Jayron  32  22:30, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

"The earth, broadly construed"
The earth, broadly construed, would include all of the oceans and land areas, but we'd probably need an RfC on whether the atmosphere is covered.

(On a more serious note, there actually have occasionally been proposals to apply DS to all national and ethnical disputes between neighboring countries or regions, rather than wait for the disputes to flare up one-by-one....) Newyorkbrad (talk) 01:45, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, behavioral expectations should be better across the board in all of Wikipedia, but I know I am fighting a losing battle on that one. -- Jayron  32  01:47, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I generally agree with you, at least as an aspirational matter (although my comments tonight on ANI in the ATG/IT thread are probably a counterexample). The most troublesome topic-areas, of course, are the ones in which the most motivated (and sometimes the most knowledgeable) editors are also the most opinionated ones. I often find myself wishing that this principle had caught on. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 02:06, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 20:26, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Southern Baptist?
Hi, I am from the Reference Desk, and I am the asker who has inquired the following question: Is a Unitarian Universalist church a religious organization or an interfaith organization?

I just have some follow-up questions concerning your Southern Baptist faith and lifestyle, and they are of a personal nature. Hope you don't mind the personal questions. Out of curiosity, do you really, really, really allow atheists to sit in a pew at your church, and under what conditions do you allow them to sit at your church? Have you tried to advertise your faith by handing out free brochures or cards about your church? There are Christians on my college campus who love to do that and try to advertise their church group everywhere, handing out free goodies (cards, brochures, candies, sodas, freezer pops, etc.). Even if Christians are promoting charity work, they always use that time to advertise their church group. Sometimes, I wonder how these Christians obtain the money required to fund promotionals, but I suppose churches require Christians to pay tithes, an obligatory 10% of their income to serve God or the church. I also wonder if Christians tend to put a higher importance on advertisement of their church group more than actually helping people and caring about others. How many people are there in your church? I am just wondering, because I would assume that the population size of a church matters. Perhaps, smaller churches are more likely to notice someone new in the congregation, whereas bigger churches are more likely ignore newcomers/visitors. Do you attend a big church or a small church? If an unfamiliar person enters your church building on a Sunday worship day, sits in a pew in the back of the room out of sight and out of mind from the rest of the crowd and then leaves surreptitiously and continues this strange habit every Sunday due to a strange interest in hearing sermons or experiencing a culture that he may have never experienced before despite his personal irreligiosity or atheism, then would you get a little suspicious or really not bother at all? I just want to know personally, because I am wondering if it is possible to sit in a pew without getting noticed. 75.185.79.52 (talk) 00:53, 29 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Sure, we invite all people to attend our church. No one is born a Christian, it is a lifestyle and a faith that one has to choose conciously.  Southern Baptists believe in what is called "Believer's Baptism"; we don't baptise infants because we believe that a person has to choose Christianity of their own free will.  That means, of course, that everyone isn't going to be at the same place in their faith.  We are a very open church, and we want people of all backgrounds to attend our church and hear the word because we believe that hearing the word is the only way they are going to choose to be Christians.  (Also, when I speak of my church, I speak of my specific congregation, which is a Southern Baptist church.  There is no the Southern Baptist church because there is no central doctrinal authority; Southern Baptists believe in the autonomy of the individual congregation.  You can enter two Baptist churches and get two WILDLY different experiences.  Baptist churches will probably show the greatest diverstity of worship style, theology, organization, etc. than any other denomination.  I also describe myself as a Christian who is a member of a Southern Baptist church.  I believe myself no different than a Christian who attends a Catholic Church or a Methodist Church or a Lutheran Church, all who profess faith in Jesus and follow him are Saved, regardless of what the worship service looks like.)  As far as money in my Church, all of the money comes from donations from people who attend the services and are members.  My family tithes, because we feel led by God to do so, but there is no requirement or pressure to do so from the Church itself.  People give what they are led to give.  The size of my church is medium sized.  We have two services, the early service probably has 100-150 attendees, and the later service probably 300 or so attendees.  I'm not comfortable in large "megachurches" that have 10,000 attendees, and I'm also not comfortable in churches that are too small to have all of the programs and opportunities to serve.  I like the size of my church.  I always try to be as welcoming as possible, and I will greet someone new if I don't recognize them; many members of my church do the same.  We have a time during the worship service every week where the pastor asks us to greet each other, and when there is an opportunity to introduce yourself to visitors.  We try to be welcoming without being pushy.  Just say "Hi" and ask someone's name and that's about it.  Even if you aren't a Christian a) no one would ask at the door or indeed at any point, if you were or weren't and b) even if we knew you weren't, you wouldn't be treated any differently or asked to leave or anything like that.  If asked, I am happy to tell others about my faith and explain why I am a Christian, but I am also not here to force anything upon anyone.  If you wanted to attend my church and were to just come in and observe the service, no one would think badly of you.  We really want people like you to come and see what it is about.  I hope that answers all of your questions, if you have any more, I would be glad to discuss anything with you.  -- Jayron  32  02:48, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh. My conception of church is baptism for birth, confirmation for the coming-of-age, wedding for marriage, confession for penance, good works for charity, celebration of the days of the saints in addition to one's birthday, funeral for death, and the mundane routine sacraments and rites performed by clergymen with specified duties, with the hierarchy of the church from the laity to the Pope in Rome. Also, going to pilgrimages to holy lands and worshiping at sacred places. When I think of church, I think of the religious institution that celebrates and cherishes important moments of one's lifetime, from cradle to grave, and be in a place with expensive-looking stained-glass windows and gothic architecture and very tall steeples and columns. The cultural aspect of the Church can be quite attractive. So, what do you do in church? Do you fit church into your schedule? Do you take time off work to observe the Sabbath? Do your children, if you have any children, attend Sunday School at a young age? What do they do in Sunday School? What's the purpose of having a cafeteria inside a church? To reminisce the Lord's last supper or something? How big is the parking lot? Is the church a first-story building or second-story building? How much money does it take to build the church building, and how old is it? What is the hierarchy like in your church? Who is the head of your church group? Do priests live inside the church or do they own their own homes? How many priests are there in your church? Because of Martin Luther, Protestant priests are allowed to get married, right? So, are the priests married or remain single and celibate? Are there any clergywomen in the church? In what direction, how long, and how often do you pray per day? What do you chant during your prayers? Do you chant in Latin or English? When you became a Christian, did you change your non-Christian name into a Christian name? Did you circumcise yourself as a full member of the church? As you can see, I have a lot of questions to ask to a person of faith! 75.185.79.52 (talk) 04:05, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
 * WHOA. That's a lot to answer.  Let me try each one in turn.
 * So, what do you do in church?
 * I do a lot of things in Church. The two most important things are Worship and Sunday School.  On Sunday mornings I attend a contemporary-style worship service from 9:30-10:30 AM and then follow that with small-group bible study from 11:00-12:00.  I'm also a guitarist with the praise band, which provides the music for the contemporary service (the traditional service at my church uses organ and choir for worship).  I am also a Church Deacon, which is an position which is elected and ordained by the Church as a whole to serve as the main advisory body for the Church.  I also teach children on Wednesday nights, which is also a night for bible study, and serve on various committees as needed.
 * Do you fit church into your schedule?
 * I tend not to think of it in those terms. God tells us we are to give him our "first fruits" and not our leftovers, so I don't generally think of my time spent at Church as needing to fit into my schedule.  I still think I have a long way to go, but I am working all the time towards incorporating more "God time" into my life.  The ideal is to make my entire life something which honors God, not just a few hours on Sunday.  I readily admit I fall far short of this, but I am working on it.
 * Do you take time off work to observe the Sabbath?
 * I don't have a job right now that necessitates me to work on Sundays.
 * Do your children, if you have any children, attend Sunday School at a young age? What do they do in Sunday School?
 * I have two children. They both attend Sunday School (as do I; time spent in small groups learning and studying the bible is more important to what I do in church than even Worship services are).  Sunday school is not unlike regular school.  They do age-appropriate activities that help them learn what it means to be a Christian.  For my youngest, that means a lot of coloring pictures and learning songs and simplified bible stories and making little trinkets I hang on my fridge.  For the older one, who can read, that means learning more directly from the bible.
 * What's the purpose of having a cafeteria inside a church? To reminisce the Lord's last supper or something?
 * The Lord's Supper is part of the worship service itself, we take communion every week in our worship service. We have a kitchen and what we call a "fellowship hall", which is a large open function room.  What we use it for is what you use any kitchen-and-function room: to cook food for and hold functions.  We have a dinner before our Wednesday night programs, and some nice ladies cook dinner every Wednesday night, we pay five bucks a head and enjoy a good meal.  It is just a time to hang out and socialize with other members of the church.  They also use the room for things like wedding receptions or other functions and celebrations and stuff like that.  It has lots of uses, I'd say there's usually something or another going on there every weekend.
 * How big is the parking lot?
 * We have two lots (one one on each side of the Church) and they are not adequate to hold everyone. I'd say about 1/4th of the cars need to park on the street or use overflow parking we have in a grass field across the street.  Our church is also planning a building expansion in the next several years, and since we don't have any more property, parking is about to get even smaller.
 * Is the church a first-story building or second-story building?
 * The church building was constructed in phases, and each part of the structure has its own character. The oldest building currently has the fellowship hall (which was the original sanctuary) and about a half dozen classrooms that currently hold the childrens Sunday School.  The second building is two stories, the main floor houses adult classrooms and church offices, while the basement houses the youth (6th grade-college age) classrooms.  The third section is the current sanctuary, which is a large open sanctuary with three banks of pews on the main floor, a dais at the front which has an area for the choir, a piano, and an organ console, and an elevated balacony in the back which houses several rows of seats as well as all of the media equipment (sound board, projection equipment, computers for running the media).
 * How much money does it take to build the church building, and how old is it?
 * Oh, to build a building like ours from scratch is a multi-million dollar proposition. We're exploring adding an addition which will increase the size of the facilities by 1/4th again and the cost of the project is 5-10 million dollars.  My church is currently debt free, but in the past it paid for its facilities just like you pay for building a house: some money was paid up front, but a lot was provided on loan in the form of mortgage and bonds.  If we go forward with the planned addition, then we will probably issue bonds again (church bonds work just like any other bond, see Bond (finance)).  The church congregation itself was founded in 1971, and met for the first several years or so in local elementary school cafeteria, which they rented.  By saving money and by taking on debt, the church eventually purchased land and build the three parts of the building over several decades.  The most recently completed part was the current Sanctuary, which was completed in 1991.  I have only been attending this this church since 2002, and a member since 2003.
 * What is the hierarchy like in your church? Who is the head of your church group?
 * Baptist churches believe in the autonomy and authority of the congregation itself, so the ultimate authority of the church rests with the entire membership. The church makes all decisions in a form of direct democracy that works almost exactly like a Town meeting.  Issues are brought before the church at a Church Meeting, which are scheduled every quarter or called special as needed, and the church votes on things.  There is a board of Deacons; Deacons serve as lay leaders of the church, Deacons serve as an advisory board but have no authority to do anything unilaterally.  Deacons can advise and give our assent to proposals about church organization or governance, but nothing the Board of deacons do is binding, only what is voted on by the membership in Church meeting is binding.  Deacons also serve as a liason between the pastoral team and the rest of the church, we are in communication with a set of families we are assigned to, and provide care for them as needed, praying for them, visiting sick people in the hospital, that kind of stuff.  The ministerial staff are employees of the Church.  The Senior Pastor is the spiritual head of the church, he is the one who provides the sermon each week, and he is our spiritual leader; however he is something like a CEO: just as a CEO leads a company, he is still responsible to the shareholders, and holds his job only at their pleasure, the Senior Pastor is still employed by the church, and as such, holds his job only at the pleasure of the membership.  The rest of the staff supports the Senior Pastor and has defined roles.  We have a full-time music minister, who runs the music program at both worship services as well as special programs like the Christmas musical and Easter musical and other concerts throughout the year.  We have a full-time Youth Minister, Children's Minister, and Adult Minister, who handle the education (Sunday school and other education programs) for their respective age groups.  We also have a clerical staff (a treasurer that handles the money, and two administrative assitants that run the office).
 * Do priests live inside the church or do they own their own homes? How many priests are there in your church? Because of Martin Luther, Protestant priests are allowed to get married, right? So, are the priests married or remain single and celibate? Are there any clergywomen in the church?
 * We don't call our clergy "Priests", we call them "Ministers". They employees of the church (as I note above) and get a salary like any employee.  They own their own homes somewhere else in town; they use their salary to buy their home and pay their own living expenses like anyone else does with a job.  As I mentioned, we have positions for 5 ministers in our church: A Senior Pastor, Music Minister, and three education ministers.  Currently, our adult education minister position is open, and we're interviewing candidates.  All of the ministers we have now are married, and they all have children.  Currently we have one woman minister, she is the Children's minister.  For a time, the Music minister was also a woman, but currently he's male.  I heard that one of the candidates we have interviewed for the open position is a woman.
 * In what direction, how long, and how often do you pray per day? What do you chant during your prayers? Do you chant in Latin or English?
 * We pray wherever and whenever the need arises. My prayers are conversational, we believe in having a relationship with God, as one would with a parent or other authority figure, and when I pray I talk to God as though I were talking to a confidant or trusted mentor.  I don't "chant", really, I talk to God as I would talk to anyone, in a natural conversational tone.  At times, I will pray reverentially to God, to let him know how much I love him, but I also pray to God for my spiritual and material needs; to intercede in the lives of people who need his presence, and for guidance in my life so that he will lead me to do as he would wish me to do in all things.  I don't pray as often as I should, but I am working towards improving my prayer life.
 * When you became a Christian, did you change your non-Christian name into a Christian name? Did you circumcise yourself as a full member of the church?
 * I was raised in the Roman Catholic church, but for a time in my late teens and early 20s I fell away and became agnostic. I refound my faith in my early-middle 20s and started attending a Baptist church (not the one I am at now), and when I realized that I was a Christian, I made a profession of faith and was Baptized (I had been Baptized as a child as well, but I came to respect the importance of the Believers Baptism).  The baptism itself was the symbolic right-of-passage that indicated I was a Christian (the Baptism didn't make me a Christian, accepting Christ as my savior and dedicating my life to him did; that happened in private between me and God.  The profession of faith and the baptism were just the public displays of that inner conversion).  For my church, the only two things you need to be considered a full member are the public profession of faith and the baptism.  My wife and I moved homes and transfered out membership to a new church; among Baptist churches this just requires a letter from our old church to say that we were members in good standing, and upon reciept of that letter we were accepted as members of the new congregation.  Regarding names, there is no expectation that you change your name to anything for any reason.  Whatever name you used before you became a Christian you can continue to use afterwards.  I am circumsized, but was done so as an infant for purely health-related reasons.  My infant circumcision was not religiously motivated in any way.
 * As you can see, I have a lot of questions to ask to a person of faith!
 * I hope I was able to answer them all satisfactorily. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.  -- Jayron  32  04:58, 29 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Wow. Thanks for the speedy responses, by the way. Sometimes, I wonder where you live, because my second posting on this talk page took place before I went to bed and had some shut-eye at brunchtime. If you live around my time zone, then you either have posted very late in the evening or in the early morning. On the other hand, it is possible that you may live on the Southwestern coast of the United States, since Southern Baptist, as the name implies, is Southern and Baptist with presumably a couple of Northern satellites.


 * Although people are not born Christians but rather become Christians by voluntary choice, I think you may be forgetting that some people may already have a Christian upbringing. They may not be considered legitimately Christian until their baptism, but they may be fully immersed within the Christian culture by their parents, so that assimilation into the Christian church (their parents' church) becomes easy and smooth as they come of age and can readily accept their place as a member of the church, as their parents probably would have helped them make connections and fellowships among their fellow church members. There is an entirely different situation, if someone of a different culture attends a Christian church as that someone may not be very familiar with the culture's customs, traditions, way of life, praying style, worship style, theology, public activities and community services, and so much more. Try visiting a Taoist temple, and tell me what's your experience like.


 * Why does your church do a contemporary-style worship service? Does a traditional-style or contemporary-style reflect the church's theology and statement of faith? I have read about the Fundamentalist vs. Modernist controversy on Wikipedia, and it seems that it started in the 19th century in one Christian denomination but later spread to other denominations. This caused some Christians to become more "modernized", but some Christians still wanted to preserve old beliefs, presumably they were afraid that the old beliefs were not Christian or not closer to the teachings of Christ. Since you attend a contemporary-style worship service, does that indicate that your theology is more compatible to modern society than your traditional-style counterparts who seem to be stuck in the 16th century theology and worldview?


 * Since you go to a Protestant Baptist Church, what are the rooms of the church? You say that there is an office. Would that be considered a modern version of the sacristy in the historic Christian church? But instead of a meeting of priests and a sacristan who runs the sacristy, there would probably be a roomful of administrative assistants, doing administration work. How does your church floorplan compare and contrast to the historic church floorplan? How does your church's ministers compare and contrast to the historic church's intricate hierarchy of clergymen? What are the equivalent roles, and where do the roles differ? Are the ministers trained and educated beforehand in Divinity School? How high of an education level does the church require of the ministers or the senior pastor? Is there an archdeacon in your church, and is the archdeacon the head or spokesperson of all the deacons in public affairs?


 * You may wondering why I am asking all these questions. I am actually asking these questions so I can quickly get an insider's perspective of one kind of church - one congregation of the Southern Baptist denomination of the Christian religion, which presumably takes place somewhere in the West. I live in an area in the United States where I can count 4 churches in my local residential neighborhood - Lutheran, some sort of "Bible Church" (no idea what denomination), Baptist, and an interdenominational community church. Being raised an atheist by atheist parents, I have lived as though there is no god rather than explicitly denying the existence of gods. See Explicit and Implicit Atheism. I recognize that the library and school and the family are important integrated institutions in the community, and the church is completely absent (in my life). I am not sure if I have been missing out on the community events and whatnot, but sometimes I wonder what it would be like to live a "religious lifestyle" or experience a "religious ceremony" for a change. I ask the questions, not because I am interested in joining a church, but because I want to get an insider's scope on religious life in America, and Christianity seems to be most accessible where I live. My ultimate religious goal in life (aside from my professional goals and life goals) is to pay a visit to one church in each unique denomination in Christianity, excluding the non-denominational churches. I don't think there is much of a point in a non-denominational church besides the most obvious - worshiping God and serving God and the community. Speaking of visiting different kinds of churches, I would probably have to camouflage myself as an "in-group" member. I think I have successfully camouflaged myself as a Christian by recently visiting an interdenominational Christian student organization on campus, just so I can attend their weekly Bible studies. The organization is targeted at Christian students on campus for fellowships and Bible studies. Fortunately, they hold an afternoon Bible study on a Wednesday - the perfect time to stop by after lunch and use the time to gain the insider's perspective/interpretation on Matthew. I think I successfully camouflaged myself by pretending to pray, and based on my knowledge of the Bible and elsewhere, answered their questions based on the text to avoid suspicion. It's a good religious experience, though. But I have a feeling that the Christian life is not for me. 75.185.79.52 (talk) 02:40, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey, no problem. I have no issues answering your questions.  Let me try again to get them all:
 * Why does your church do a contemporary-style worship service? Does a traditional-style or contemporary-style reflect the church's theology and statement of faith?
 * Some people prefer to sing more modern-sounding songs, some prefer more traditional style songs. There are also some differences between the two in terms of organization, but the differences are cosmetic.  However, the sermon is essentially the same, and the theology is consistent.  God doesn't have a preference for any kind of song (after all, if you think about it, the "Traditional" hymns all date from the middle 19th-middle 20th century; they were "contemporary" at some point.)  The messages in the songs of both services are theologically sound and biblically based.  One just has essentially a rock band leading the worship, while one has an organ and choir.
 * Since you attend a contemporary-style worship service, does that indicate that your theology is more compatible to modern society than your traditional-style counterparts who seem to be stuck in the 16th century theology and worldview?
 * God is not confined to any one time, he is in all times. As such, I don't think that theology needs to be confined to one particular historical period.  As I said, theologically the message is consistant.  It's just a musical difference.
 * Since you go to a Protestant Baptist Church, what are the rooms of the church? You say that there is an office. Would that be considered a modern version of the sacristy in the historic Christian church? But instead of a meeting of priests and a sacristan who runs the sacristy, there would probably be a roomful of administrative assistants, doing administration work. How does your church floorplan compare and contrast to the historic church floorplan?
 * The church floorplan is fairly typical for an American Christian church. Even the Catholic church I grew up in had the same basic organization; there was an education building, there was a sanctuary, a function room, office and clerical staff (My aunt, until she retired about 5 years ago, was the administrative assistant/secretary for the Catholic church I attended).  I think I've fairly well described the floor plan above, so I won't go into it again.  If you have specific questions or need clarification, let me know what you want to know.
 * How does your church's ministers compare and contrast to the historic church's intricate hierarchy of clergymen? What are the equivalent roles, and where do the roles differ? Are the ministers trained and educated beforehand in Divinity School? How high of an education level does the church require of the ministers or the senior pastor? Is there an archdeacon in your church, and is the archdeacon the head or spokesperson of all the deacons in public affairs?
 * The church has no heirarchy. Again, I answered this mostly above.  Southern baptist churches are run via direct democracy.  The congration itself is at the top of the organization chart.  The Senior Pastor fills a similar role as Catholic Priest would, he prepares the sermon and officiates the worship service, but rather than being appointed to the church from the local diocese, he is an employee of the church.  He also has an administrative role as he is the manager of the other staff, and has the responsibility for the overall spiritual leadership of the church.  All of the ministers in the church had to have attended seminary, and the Senior Pastor is required to have a Doctor of Divinity degree.  The other ministers have other certifications from seminary, I don't know the specifics, but they all had to have attended a seminary and received religious training.  They all also have additional training in their areas of specialty; the music minister is a trained musician.  I know our children's minister had been an elementary school teacher before she went back to seminary, so she is trained for her role.  There is no "archdeacon".  The deacon board elects its own officers annually, so there is a Chair of the Board of Deacons, who has some special roles in the church leadership.  There is also a board of trustees that are elected for life from the church.  The trustees are empowered to represent the church officially; for example to sign promisory notes for the church.  Public affairs at the church is handled by a Communications Commitee.  Everything is done by committees.  Committee members are elected to serve for three year terms, with 1/3 of each committee expireing each year.  We have something like 34 committees that handles everything from building and grounds maintenance to communications to sound and light to IT/networking to financial management.
 * I'd be glad to answer any more questions you have! -- Jayron  32  03:24, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Wow. And there are only less than 500 people in your church and so many committees and the members of the committees are elected and expected to serve till the end of their terms before retiring and allowing some other people to join the church. That would only imply that EVERYONE in the church serves the church, right? Are there any people in your church who does not participate in church activities? Are there anybody in your church who has blasphemed, has become a heretic, or has become an apostate in your church? If so, how did the church deal with these types of issues? I'm sure that the church do not burn heretics at the stake, do they? That would be so medieval! How does the church address social ills and issues in the surrounding neighborhood? How does the church handle highly controversial and contentious topics?


 * Tell me more about you became a "Christian". First of all, wouldn't it be correct to say that you were really baptized twice? Once by the Roman Catholic church as an infant, and once by the Baptist church as an adult. Is there any reason why the Baptist church would not accept your baptized status? Did they try to proselytize you that their form of baptism was better than infant baptism or christening or you wouldn't be counted as a "true Christian", or did you believe that on your own accord? I thought it was the older churches - Roman Catholic and Orthodox - that wouldn't accept Protestants due to their alleged heretical beliefs, not the other way around. In the Jewish community, Orthodox Jews would not accept Reform Jews as part of the church, unless they go through the procedure of a formal conversion. The reverse, however, is possible. I suppose it's different for Christians, huh? I mean, even if you did believe in "Believer's Baptism", you could have just used your already baptized status in the past as baptism for the present, if you get what I mean. That way, you don't have to do the same process again. Adult baptisms are not like infant baptisms, since instead of gentle sprinkling on the noggin, you have to be dunked in water and have faith on the baptist that he or she is not going to drown you or have some other malicious intention secretly. :P You said that you were raised Roman Catholic and became agnostic and then later visited a Baptist church. Why Baptist? Why not Roman Catholic? Even if you did not believe or accept orthodox Roman Catholic teachings, then wouldn't you still attend Mass to be with family? Or was your agnosticism such a serious problem for you and the church that the church thought it was best to excommunicate you for your heresy, which led you to become agnostic? Since you were presumably a "spiritual but not religious" type of person in your '20s, you probably wanted to seek a new church life, so you visited a local Baptist church and hoped to get accepted in a new and more welcoming community that would accept you for your beliefs? Was that what happened?


 * You said that you have been a member since 2003, and you also said that you fall short of what God expects of you, which is to give more "God-time" to him and not to your other stuff. WTF? Don't you realize that you have spent like about a decade in the church and you still have not fulfilled God's requirement of giving all your time to the church? Then again, I suppose you are probably a newbie in the church. Also, as an adult convert, you probably have a harder time to adjust to the Baptist Christian life than your much younger counterparts, who presumably could live the Baptist Christian life naturally and easily since they were born as perfect, little Christians and you were not. Not to sound offensive or anything like that, but I think being raised a proper Christian since birth is a necessary requirement for being a "true Southern Baptist Convention Christian".


 * I can't think of any more questions. So, thanks for devoting part of your time to answer my questions. I really appreciate it. :) 75.185.79.52 (talk) 00:47, 31 August 2012 (UTC)


 * No problem. I'll do my best to answer your questions as best I can.
 * Wow. And there are only less than 500 people in your church and so many committees and the members of the committees are elected and expected to serve till the end of their terms before retiring and allowing some other people to join the church. That would only imply that EVERYONE in the church serves the church, right? Are there any people in your church who does not participate in church activities?
 * Well, the expectation is that everyone serves. In practice, many jobs and committees are filled by the same people.  Each committee has about 6 people on it (some have 9 some have 3), which means there are something like 200 committee positions to fill.  In practice, most people who serve on one committee end up serving on several, and do other jobs around the church as well.  But there are a LOT of opportunities to serve.  There are Sunday morning and wednesday night teaching positions, music groups; lots of opportunities.  We say that we believe in doing church, that is we try to have a service mentality, and that can mean serving in the greater community, or serving in the church, but everyone has a set of skills that God can use, and the trick is finding where those skills match with needed jobs.  Everyone, unfortunately doesn't serve, some people are fairly passive, but what you find is that people who don't do anything end up falling away eventually.  If you don't get plugged into an activity or some form of meaningful service, if all you do is come on Sundays to worship, well, you eventually have no reason to come anymore.  That's my perspective anyways.
 * Are there anybody in your church who has blasphemed, has become a heretic, or has become an apostate in your church? If so, how did the church deal with these types of issues? I'm sure that the church do not burn heretics at the stake, do they? That would be so medieval! How does the church address social ills and issues in the surrounding neighborhood? How does the church handle highly controversial and contentious topics?
 * That's a good question. I think you'll find a diversity of opinions in the church, but when I look to scripture, I find that Christ spends a lot of his teaching instructing people to take care of their own sin, and not worry so hard about trying to correct other's sin: Matthew chapter 7 provides excellent guidance: It is not my job as a Christian to rebuke others for their sin.  God rebukes us for our sin through the Holy Spirit, not me.  So my job is to introduce people to God.  God will take care of the rest.  And if God doesn't rebuke them, then who would I be to rebuke them?  It's not my business or my job to rebuke others for their sin, because I have my own sin, and your sins are not worse than my sins.  As far as "heresy" goes, we have a pretty simple theology.  Confess your sins to God, repent (turn away from) your sins, and follow the example of Jesus in the scriptures.  Everything else is what Paul calls "disputable matters" in Romans 14, and later when he says "Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister."  The more you read the New Testament, you understand that it isn't a list of rules to follow and not break.  It is a way to look at living your life, and a perspective to take on how to treat other people.  The church addresses social ills by trying to be a positive force in the world.  We try to provide for the poor and disadvantaged.  We have several ministries that do that: We have a ministry that provides home repairs and free appliances for people that need it.  We have a ministry that does disaster relief, we sent teams to Gulfport Mississippi after Katrina, and for 2-3 years after, and I have a feeling they'll be going back soon.  We have lots of others too: Christs example tells us to serve the poor, the sick, and the disadvantaged, and we try to do that.
 * Tell me more about you became a "Christian". First of all, wouldn't it be correct to say that you were really baptized twice? Once by the Roman Catholic church as an infant, and once by the Baptist church as an adult. Is there any reason why the Baptist church would not accept your baptized status? Did they try to proselytize you that their form of baptism was better than infant baptism or christening or you wouldn't be counted as a "true Christian", or did you believe that on your own accord?
 * Yes, I was baptized twice. The Baptists believe in the Believer's Baptism as an outward sign of one's voluntary acceptance of Christ as one's leader in life.  Infants lack the mental capacity to believe in that way, so Baptists don't Baptize until a person has the capacity to do so of their own free will.  The way it was put to me when I was baptized as an adult was that they weren't invalidating my Catholic upbringing: that obviously had an effect on my growth as a Christian, and therefore it was worthwhile, including my infant baptism.  The adult baptism was a validation of all of that; and it was a choice I made of my own free will.  I should also say that you can attend in and participate in most of the activities of a Baptist church without being a member of the Church: Adult baptism is required to be in a leadership position, but one can go to worship and take Sunday School without being a member.  My father-in-law had been a regular attendee of a Baptist church for 20 years, and was in his 50s when he had his adult baptism.  He had been a faithful servant, but wasn't moved to do so, as he had been baptized as an infant.  When he was tapped for a leadership position, he needed to get it done to serve in that position, so he did.  But he was always a faithful attendee of the church, and was always a Christian.  I decided to be baptized of my own accord, because I had grown very close to the church I was attending, and wanted to formalize my connection to them.
 * You said that you were raised Roman Catholic and became agnostic and then later visited a Baptist church. Why Baptist? Why not Roman Catholic? Even if you did not believe or accept orthodox Roman Catholic teachings, then wouldn't you still attend Mass to be with family? Or was your agnosticism such a serious problem for you and the church that the church thought it was best to excommunicate you for your heresy, which led you to become agnostic? Since you were presumably a "spiritual but not religious" type of person in your '20s, you probably wanted to seek a new church life, so you visited a local Baptist church and hoped to get accepted in a new and more welcoming community that would accept you for your beliefs? Was that what happened?
 * That's a very hard question. I wasn't even one of those "spiritual but not religious" types.  It just wasn't part of my life either way.  What happened is that I began to feel the presence of God in my life.  It is hard to describe; the best way I can say is that it is like trying to describe colors to someone who was born blind.  I had been born blind, then suddenly could see colors.  To people who are blind, describing colors seems incomprehensible to them.  I have a hard time saying how that happens.  I can only say that I felt God working in my life: a series of events slowly led me to believe that he was working in my life, and I had no reasonable explanation other than that.  As far as finding a church, my wife had been raised in Protestant churches, but no one specific denomination: her parents' moved a lot when she was young, so she had been part of Lutheran and Episcopalian and Methodist and Baptist churches: her parents would try them all out in each city and find the one that worked for them.  SO that's what we did, and we found a Baptist church that we felt moved to attend and eventually join.
 * You said that you have been a member since 2003, and you also said that you fall short of what God expects of you, which is to give more "God-time" to him and not to your other stuff. WTF? Don't you realize that you have spent like about a decade in the church and you still have not fulfilled God's requirement of giving all your time to the church? Then again, I suppose you are probably a newbie in the church. Also, as an adult convert, you probably have a harder time to adjust to the Baptist Christian life than your much younger counterparts, who presumably could live the Baptist Christian life naturally and easily since they were born as perfect, little Christians and you were not. Not to sound offensive or anything like that, but I think being raised a proper Christian since birth is a necessary requirement for being a "true Southern Baptist Convention Christian".
 * Part of being a Christian is realizing that it is a journey, and not a destination. One phrase I have heard that fits it well is "Being a Christian doesn't make me sinless, but it does make me try to sin less."  It is a constant striving for personal improvement and a constant striving for becoming closer to God and a constant striving to serve him better and more all the time.  You never "get there", and if you ever feel like you've "gotten there", it probably means you weren't going to the right place in teh first place.  And it has nothing to do with being raised in the specific church.  By all accounts, I have one of the highest leadership positions in the Church: I'm a deacon, and I do so not because I am perfect, but because being a deacon makes me want to be closer to perfect than I am.  The other thing that I've heard said is "The closer you are to God, the farther you realize you truly are from him"  That isn't about self-loathing, however, just a constant reminder that continuous improvement is always the goal.  Just as in other aspects of life, continuous improvement at one's job, or with one's family, or in one's education is the only way to live; continuous improvement with my relationship with God is the only way to be a Christian.  Experience tells me also that people born into the faith have a harder time, because they don't choose it of their own accord.  I know many people who are faithful Christians, who are among the most upstanding members of the church, and who have children who turn away from the faith.  It happens, because everyone still has to choose the lifestyle.  Matthew 13, known as the Parable of the Sower explains it well: The message of Jesus is given freely for all; however not all of those that receive the message will take it up voluntarily, even those who had the message their whole lives.  It doesn't mean we don't keep trying to spread the message, but we can't make people Christians.  They have to choose it for themselves.
 * Well, I hope I was able to answer all of your questions in this round. Always glad to talk about my faith with anyone that asks!  As always, I am open to talk about anything you'd like.  -- Jayron  32  03:57, 31 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Whoa... very interesting. Hmmm... the quote you used, "Being a Christian doesn't make me sinless, but it does make me try to sin less," reminds me of an article that I read on Wikipedia about Dunning-Kruger Effect. The whole article can be summed up by this adage, "The more you know, the more you realize you don't know - the less you know, the more you think you know." In other words, competent people tend to think less of themselves, because they can recognize their weaknesses, whereas incompetent people tend to think too highly of themselves, because they cannot see their weaknesses, but once they see their weaknesses, they try to correct it and admit their errors. That has happened to me many times that I accept it's part of human nature. In your case, as a Christian, you probably recognize your failures, so that does not make you sinless. However, because you recognize your weaknesses, you try to sin less and be more productive in society.


 * Micah Armstrong is a Fundamentalist Christian campus preacher who once arrived on my college campus. Some students found him entertaining and laughed at him. I thought he should be ashamed of himself for acting so bigoted. On his shirt he wore two pins "No homo" and "No porno". I did not entertain his public mantras against what he perceived to be "sexual sins". Every time I saw him, I looked the other way and ignored that guy as if he did not exist. I do not think that Christians like Micah Armstrong should call themselves "Christians", do you? If you see someone so hateful and so bigoted, then wouldn't you care less about them? I mean, you would give them basic human rights, since they are human beings and the law demands it, but above that, you wouldn't give them any respect, unless they sincerely apologize for what they have said, would you? Why do some Christians behave like utter bigots? I mean, I would not care if a person believes that homosexuality is a "sin". As long as that person does not shove that belief into someone else, I am fine with it. Besides, like you said, being a Christian is a voluntary, personal decision and commitment. If a person wants to make that commitment to God, including not lying with a person of the same sex, then that is that person's choice. That person cannot thrust the belief in God or the disapproval of homosexual behavior on others.


 * Then, there are Christians like you who make the Christian life so attractive - life of society, commitment, love, respect, humility, leadership, charity, and all things good. *dreamy sigh* You must be lucky to attend a church with so many humanitarian activities going on, and not enough people to help out! If those humanitarian activities occur on a weekend for a few hours, and I live next to a church like yours, I would love to volunteer in the ministries, even though I am a non-Christian. Does your church allow non-Christians to volunteer in the ministries or perform community service for the neighborhood or within the church itself? Hmmm... I may not really share the beliefs or anything, but doing community service may be one way I can get involved in my neighborhood (also look good on my professional resume)! I have volunteered before at mostly nonreligious organizations, though there was one time recently when I actually volunteered for the ecumenical Christian ministry Habitat for Humanity. The group actually taught me how to paint, and I learned a painting skill while I was at it. 75.185.79.52 (talk) 00:17, 1 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Because the Jesus tells me so, I don't make the sins of others my business, even to the point of not trying to identify the sins of others. My job is only to introduce others to God.  It is between God and the individual believer what he convicts them of.  Furthermore, Jesus spends his ministry a) helping the poor and disadvantaged and b) bringing others to the faith and b) dealing with the excesses within the faith which are keeping people from a right relationship with God.  Jesus is silent on homosexuality; and quite frankly I think he would be disgusted with how Christians treat people on that regard.  As a Christian, I model my life after Jesus the best I can.  And yes, you would be welcome in our congregation to participate in any activities you wish.  -- Jayron  32  01:57, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Interesting exchange of information this is. I am not a Christian, though I grew up attending church. Both as an atheist adult and a church-going child, I have attended services in many Christian denominations, as well as Jewish synagogues, all for a variety of reasons. In none of them did I have to disguise myself in any way or pretend to any belief I did not have. When it was obvious to those around me (as when in a synagogue) I had no idea what to do or when to do it, the people around me would hand me the appropriate texts, open to the appropriate page, and point out the current readings or hymns/songs. You can pray in any posture from kneeling with a bowed head and closed eyes, hands in the "palms together, fingers at the chin" position to staring around the room while seated, eyes wide open. No one will either comment or care. As long as you are quiet during the quiet times, and not flagrantly disrespectful, you will be left with your own thoughts. If you want to talk with adherents before or after the service/gathering, anyone in the group will engage you and, if not feeling competent to respond to your queries, will direct you to someone who will be.

If you want to slip into the back row and slip out again before anyone has an opportunity to speak to you, there is no problem in doing so; just close the doors quietly behind you. (Oh, yes, on a lighter note, while you are not required to put anything into the offertory plate when it passes where you are seated, it is really bad manners to take anything out -except by way of change for a large bill.) Bielle (talk) 03:21, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed on the "passing the plate" thing. My wife and I donate by electronic transfer, so we never put anything in the plate.  Lots of people do that, so it wouldn't ever stand out if you didn't either yourself.  No one knows the difference between "I give electronically" and "I'd rather not give", so no one pays any attention.  -- Jayron  32  03:59, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Notice
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Implicit threats of violence. Thank you. Reaper Eternal (talk) 17:28, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

ITN
Hi! Two pieces of advice: 1. Please note that we italicize the parentheses in "(pictured)". 2. I assume that you uploaded a smaller version of the image under a different name (instead of uploading the full-resolution version under its Commons name) because of a slow connection speed. In such a circumstance, a better solution is to preview a 100x100px transclusion and use the resultant thumbnail. That way, the download and upload will be even faster, and there will be no extra generation loss (because the exact 100x100px file will appear on the main page, with no further scaling). Thanks! —David Levy 19:53, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You're allowed to fix my mistakes. I won't mind.  Thanks for the tips, and I will try to remmeber to those tips for next time.  -- Jayron  32  19:55, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Clarification needed
Hello again! Please see Wikipedia talk:In the news. (As reflected in the messages there, I initially believed that BorgQueen initiated the straw poll and requested this clarification from her.) Thanks! —David Levy 23:31, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Ahmad Shah Massoud
Thank you Jayron, it was indeed him. Alabamaboy1992 (talk) 19:10, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I am but here to serve. -- Jayron  32  19:11, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

WikiCup 2012 August newsletter
The final is upon us! We are down to our final 8. A massive 573 was our lowest qualifying score; this is higher than the 150 points needed last year and the 430 needed in 2010. Even in 2009, when points were acquired for mainspace edit count in addition to audited content, 417 points secured a place. That leaves this year's WikiCup, by one measure at least, our most competitive ever. Our finalists, ordered by round 4 score, are:
 * 1) once again finishes the round in first place, leading Pool B. Grapple X writes articles about television, and especially The X-Files and Millenium, with good articles making up the bulk of the score.
 * 2) led Pool A this round. Fourth-place finalist last year, Miyagawa writes on a variety of topics, and has reached the final primarily off the back of his massive number of did you knows.
 * 3) was second in Pool B. Ruby2010 writes primarily on television and film, and scores primarily from good articles.
 * 4) finished third in Pool B. Casliber is something of a WikiCup veteran, having finished sixth in 2011 and fourth in 2010. Casliber writes on the natural sciences, including ornithology, botany and astronomy. Over half of Casliber's points this round were bonus points from the high-importance articles he has worked on.
 * 5) came second in Pool A. Also writing on biology, especially marine biology, Cwmhiraeth received 390 points for one featured article (Bivalvia) and one good article (pelican), topping up with a large number of did you knows.
 * 6) was third in Pool A. Muboshgu writes primarily on baseball, and this round saw Muboshgu's first featured article, Derek Jeter, promoted on its fourth attempt at FAC.
 * 7) was fourth in Pool A. She writes on a variety of topics, including horses, but this round also saw the high-importance lettuce reach featured article status.
 * 8) is another WikiCup veteran, having been a finalist in 2009 and 2010. He writes mostly on mycology.

However, we must also say goodbye to the eight who did not make the final, having fallen at the last hurdle:, , , , , , and. We hope to see you all next year.

On the subject of next year, a discussion has been opened here. Come and have your say about the competition, and how you'd like it to run in the future. This brainstorming will go on for some time before more focused discussions/polls are opened. As ever, if you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on WikiCup/Reviews. Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn (talk • email) and The ed17 (talk • email) 00:16, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

RfA
Hi Jayron. I don't think Keelan717 is anything other than a very new, and possibly very young user. He was asking on IRC how to transclude his RfB. Nevertheless, after checking recent edits and following up on his IP, there may be some SPI on the way. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:38, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Whatever. His reason for being a pain isn't at issue.  He's going to stop being a pain, or he's going to stop being at Wikipedia.  -- Jayron  32  15:46, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

USRD Summer 2012 Newsletter

 * —  Imzadi 1979  →   22:57, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

good removal re: amish tools
Does our 76.16.47.115 friend need some "administrative support" to help cure his RefDesk posting habit? The Masked Booby (talk) 03:36, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I have no problem providing that support. I am amply armed for that eventuality.  -- Jayron  32  03:37, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

The Olive Branch: A Dispute Resolution Newsletter (Issue #1)
Welcome to the first edition of The Olive Branch. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in dispute resolution (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are active in DR, but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to this page. In this issue: Read the entire first edition of The Olive Branch -->
 * Background: A brief overview of the DR ecosystem.
 * Research: The most recent DR data
 * Survey results: Highlights from Steven Zhang's April 2012 survey
 * Activity analysis: Where DR happened, broken down by the top DR forums
 * DR Noticeboard comparison: How the newest DR forum has progressed between May and August
 * Discussion update: Checking up on the Wikiquette Assistance close debate
 * Proposal: It's time to close the Geopolitical, ethnic, and religious conflicts noticeboard. Agree or disagree?

--The Olive Branch 19:09, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Is this a joke?
I'm assuming this is your form of humor? Everyone knows I don't do homework. Viriditas (talk) 03:59, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I do not have any sense of humor that I am aware of. -- Jayron  32  04:00, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, it's not your fault. It's sort of the way my brain works.  I wake up in the morning with questions like that. I have to suppress it 90% of the time. Viriditas (talk) 04:02, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * We all have voices in our head. Sometimes they tell us bad things.  Naughty things.  Things of which we musn't speak.  Oops.  I've said too much.  I'll probably have to pay for that.  -- Jayron  32  04:03, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You're reading things into what I say again. I never said I heard voices.  I said I wake up in the morning with questions. It's a desire to understand things the way they are. Viriditas (talk) 04:06, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Jayron32's not here right now. He's been naughty.  We've had to put him "away" for a while.  Come back when he's finished his sentence.  -- Jayron  32  04:08, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I've been known to talk to answering machines and voice mail boxes. For a really long time.  Until they fill up. Viriditas (talk) 04:10, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

What's your secret?
I notice that you constantly provide high-quality responses at the reference desks. Are you always familiar with the topics that you respond to and are the resident polymath or do you perform research before responding? I am insanely envious of your erudition either way. ' Ankh '. Morpork  15:54, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your compliment. It is a combination of my interests (Back in the day, I majored in chemistry and minored in European history, and was only 2 classes away from a double major), the fact that I read a lot from a lot of different subjects, and the fact that I know a little bit about lots of things (jack of all trades, master of none).  Enough to be dangerous, as they say.  Usually, I know enough about any subject to find the relevent Wikipedia articles, and get the rest of my info from there.  Take, for example, a recent question on the Soviet Union and Mongolia.  Now, I didn't know a whole lot about Mongolia, but I knew it was in the Stalinist/Soviet sphere, so I did a little hunting, and found info on the Sino-Soviet negotations over the status of Mongolia.  Again, I didn't know much going into it, but I knew enough to help find the pertinent information to answer the original question.  Plus, I have this weird disease where my brain won't let me forget anything useless.  I couldn't tell you where I left my keys (useful, so I can't remember it), but I can tell you the basic chronology of the French wars of religion or who played in and won every Super Bowl inlcuding the head coach, starting QB, MVP, and relevent plays from each game.  -- Jayron  32  16:24, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I am looking for a good article that analyses the various moral arguments regarding animal rights and examines how they contrast with the rights enjoyed by humans. Any suggestions? <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">' Ankh '. Morpork  20:42, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Whew. Now you're outside of my realm of expertise.  I would just start at Animal rights and follow threads from there.  -- Jayron  32  02:39, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Cross-examination at court hearing: Mr. Jayron32, you "claim" to have majored in chemistry. Can you back this up? If you truly did major in the wonderful world of atoms and molecules, then please answer the following problem: 4 NH3 + 5 O2 --> 4 NO + 6 H20

Given 1.50 grams of ammonia, 2.75 grams of oxygen...

A) How many grams of NO and H2O form?

B) How many grams of the excess reactant are left over?

C) Show that the calculations in the previous two steps obey the law of conservation of mass.

Kidding, you don't have to do it! But if you want the answers...

NO = 2.06 grams

H2O = 1.86 grams

.332 grams of the excess reactant (ammonia)

If 2.75 + 1.5 = 4.25 and 4.25-3.92 = .33, then we know it obeyed the law. Alternatively, .332 + 2.06 + 1.86 = 4.25

--<small style="border: 1px dashed;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> Activism  1234  03:03, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I currently work as a private tutor for a dozen or so chemistry students, I do this shit 3-4 times a day, and get $40 per hour to do so. I ain't doing it here.  I'm off the clock.  -- Jayron  32  03:05, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Oooooh nice!! Wasn't expecting you to be a tutor, thought you only majored it.  Enjoy it.  And yes, I can perfectly understand that.  --<small style="border: 1px dashed;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> Activism  1234  03:51, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

The Tea Leaf - Issue Six
Hi! Welcome to the sixth edition of The Tea Leaf, the official newsletter of the Teahouse!
 * Teahouse serves over 700 new editors in six months on Wikipedia! Since February 27, 741 new editors have participated at the Teahouse. The Q&A board and the guest intro pages are more active than ever.
 * Automatic invites are doing the trick: 50% more new editors visiting each week. Ever since HostBot's automated invite trial phase began we've seen a boost in new editor participation. Automating a baseline set of invitations also allows Teahouse hosts to focus on serving hot cups of help to guests, instead of spending countless hours inviting.
 * Guests to the Teahouse continue to edit more & interact more with other community members than non-Teahouse guests according to six month metrics. Teahouse guests make more than twice the article edits and edit more talk pages than other new editors.
 * New host process implemented which encourages anyone to get started as a Teahouse host in a few easy steps. Stop by the hosts page and become a Teahouse host today!
 * Host lounge renovations nearing completion. Working closely with Teahouse hosts, we've made some major renovations to the Teahouse Host Lounge - the main hangout and resource space for hosts. Learn more about the improvements here.

As always, thanks for supporting the Teahouse project! Stop by and visit us today!

You are receiving The Tea Leaf after expressing interest or participating in the Teahouse! To remove yourself from receiving future newsletters, please remove your username here. EdwardsBot (talk) 00:08, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
SarahStierch (talk) 22:43, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

About "Ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions"
Hi Jayron. I've heard that it's impossible to delete the main page. Since I don't have the sysop permission, could you possibly go ahead and try it for me? --Shirt58 (talk) 03:35, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It was probably my fault. On a related note, Jayron, you got messages at Wikipedia talk:Teahouse/Host lounge. Hopefully I can get to the bottom of this quickly. The deletion note says that the script might have been interrupted by security things, though, which would be a problem on your end.  Sorry. :/ Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 03:40, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

A beer for you!

 * A good night cap. Thanks!  -- Jayron  32  04:49, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

your signature
Interesting to see you have "chosen" to change the color of your signature: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:In_the_news&curid=485213&diff=511255697&oldid=511219722 μηδείς (talk) 18:33, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads up. I've reverted and warned.  If it happens again, it won't happen again, if you catch my drift.  -- Jayron  32  18:41, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Google-fu

 * Thank you very much! -- Jayron  32  02:09, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Dewan357
I'll just point out that I am being criticized for treating Dewan357 as if he is banned. You opposing his ban but saying he is already banned is going to be an interesting point in consensus finding. If you believe I was correct to treat him as banned, it might be helpful to say so, as this discussion is turning into a referendum on the way I treat indefinitely blocked editors as much as it is a discussion on this individual ban.&mdash;Kww(talk) 00:00, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * This is a vote in protest. I don't believe we serve the encyclopedia by enacting ban discussions against people who, based on their existing behavior, stand no chance of editing again in the reasonable future.  I don't believe that this is because he has been indeffed; we have many users who get indeffed but who I would not consider banned.  However, when a users behavior has reached the level of disruption and especially sockpuppeteering and block dodging this has, then we shouldn't even have discussions about banning them.  It is a waste of time to do so.  I've explained this already after my vote: whoever closes the discussion can decide how to use my comments to help them.  They have eyes and presumable a knowledge of English.  I trust them to use both.  -- Jayron  32  00:03, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Page Curation update
Hey all :). We've just deployed another set of features for Page Curation. They include flyouts from the icons in Special:NewPagesFeed, showing who reviewed an article and when, a listing of this in the "info" flyout, and a general re-jigging of the info flyout - we've also fixed the weird bug with page_titles_having_underscores_instead_of_spaces in messages sent to talkpages, and introduced CSD logging! As always, these features will need some work - but any feedback would be most welcome. Thanks! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 18:14, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

ANI
Did you take time to read my reply to Alf in the ANI? I'll probably disagree with you on this then, but I think such hostile behauvior after banning deserves an ANI and threats about "investigating" other users and "media coverage coming" is pretty frightening. Having the chance that something may reveal your real identity – not a nice feeling to know distruptive editors acting as "investigators" are allowed to do that. I thought that was a very serious thing about what I started that ANI about. Guess I was wrong. --Pudeo' 00:37, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You do what you gotta do. -- Jayron  32  01:17, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Erm
I actually didn't meant to be offensive. Are you ready for IPv6? (talk) 07:36, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, most people don't. Just take care and be thoughtful about what you say. -- Jayron  32  12:01, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Semiprotect Paul Ryan?
Now that the article is on probation, which would seem to be the most favored option at the ANI discussion, isn't it time to drop the protection to semiprotected? Sure, there was edit warring, but a fair amount of it was consensus-seeking and productive; and protecting the article clearly threw that baby out with the bathwater. (you can reply here) Homunq (talk) 18:00, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The protection was an expedient to stop a rapid and multi-party edit war. If, as you say, the need for the protection has dissipated, I have no problem with any admin removing or modifying it.  -- Jayron  32  18:17, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Just a heads up, I lowered the protection settings and enforced community general sanctions.--v/r - TP 18:53, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Good stuff! -- Jayron  32  19:18, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Help desk
Hi!, thank you for answering my question on Humanities so fast. I'm eager to contribute to articles that I like, such as that of Canadian actor Cory Monteith, and I asked a question on the Help Desk about him and his possible categories, could you check my question please?. I won't bother you again, I promise. But I'm eager to contribute and nobody answers! LOL. Thank you. Timothyhere (talk) 19:57, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

AN/I
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:53, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

New contributors Help desk
Could you please link me to such desk? I was told it exists. Thank you. I have a couple of questions to ask. Timothyhere (talk) 20:40, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You can try New contributors' help page/questions or Help desk or Teahouse/Questions. Any of those should be of help to you.  -- Jayron  32  00:51, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

TalkPage Help desk

 * Never mind there was a discussion section so there were opinions about the film, but at least thanks

anyway.--GoShow (...............) 04:26, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Hiya...
Okay, I'll admit it made me laugh. But lame or not, it's where we are. One of the case participants has expressed the concern that it's disruptive (which it obviously is &mdash; I get it, that's the point). But, the poll is the product of over a month of negotiation, so would you object very strongly if I took it out? <span style="font-family: Palatino Linotype, Book Antiqua, Palatino, serif;" color="#BBAED0">Feezo (send a signal &#124; watch the sky) 01:05, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I wasn't intending to be disruptive, but I was using humor to make a serious point. It absolutely doesn't matter which we choose.  Pick one at random and stick to it.  I feel it is important that my voice is heard, and I want the point made that while we need to choose one form to be consistent throughout the whole article, it literally doesn't matter which one we choose.  I would, therefore, like my comment to stand.  If anyone objects, please point them to this discussion, or have them leave their objection in the "discussion" section of the RFC, so we can discuss it there.  Either way, I would object to removing my statement. It was humorous in tone, but I am not joking when I say that I want my opinion heard that the debate is pointless.  -- Jayron  32  01:10, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I do still feel that adding a rather long titled "third option" to a poll whose construction was the product of careful consensus is somewhat equivalent to a bull in a china shop. But maybe that's what we need? I'm not interested in fighting you over this, but I will say that if you wanted replies to go in the discussion section, then why not put your opinions there? <span style="font-family: Palatino Linotype, Book Antiqua, Palatino, serif;" color="#BBAED0">Feezo (send a signal &#124; watch the sky) 01:20, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It gets attention, dontit? -- Jayron  32  01:24, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * How do you suggest I respond to this? <span style="font-family: Palatino Linotype, Book Antiqua, Palatino, serif;" color="#BBAED0">Feezo (send a signal &#124; watch the sky) 01:27, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You tell them to talk to me. They got a problem with me, they can speak to me face to face.  There's no need for them to get you to do their work for them.  If they have a problem with something I have done, they can come directly to me and deal with me.  You are under no obligation to do anything at all in regards to my actions.  I can take care of myself.  -- Jayron  32  01:31, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

What the heck was I thinking?
Hi Jayron, This happened more than two weeks ago, so it's probably too late to do anything useful, but umm. I just noticed when going through my contributions that I apparently reverted one of your posts on the refdesk, and I have no idea why - I can see nothing whatsoever wrong with your post, plus if there was something wrong with a post I'd usually reply or bring the issue to your talkpage instead of blindly reverting. I can find no talkpage discussion about that thread or about my removal, so I really have no idea why I reverted you - the most probable explanation is that I accidentally clicked on "rollback" without noticing - and then apparently nobody else noticed what I did, so your post was removed without any comment and without ever being re-inserted - sorry about that, I have no idea how that could have happened. -- Ferkelparade &pi; 18:32, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Meh, it happens. I didn't even notice, pay it no mind. I certainly haven't.  Thank you for letting me know about this, I think it is wonderful that you care, because not enough people around here do.  But let me set your mind at peace.  You're fine, mistakes happen, and it isn't a big deal.  -- Jayron  32  18:37, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

My stars
Please don't keep calling them my stars. The were invented by someone else long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away. I have no claim on the template. μηδείς (talk) 18:07, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, but you've certainly adopted them. -- Jayron  32  18:15, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Explain
Please explain why, in your opinion, a co-operative project should have any tolerance for such blatant rudeness as you have demonstrated this evening from its administrators. Kevin McE (talk) 21:25, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not particularly interested in explaining anything to you. You aren't entitled to anything from me.  -- Jayron  32  22:18, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Blow it out your ass. Lick my nutsack. Sit and spin...
 * Hope you don't mind me saying any of this, because that is apparently the kind of civil discourse Wikipedia admins stick in their edit summaries without fear of reprisal. Suckit. 87.113.116.211 (talk) 22:29, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll note that you logged out to do that. Takes a strong person to hide behind an IP address and not tie it to their main identity.  Goodonya.  -- Jayron  32  22:30, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure who you think I am, but I haven't logged out, since I don't have an account. 87.113.116.211 (talk) 22:32, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't care who you are. You aren't interesting or important to me.  -- Jayron  32  22:36, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Whoop de doo. Try acting with the responsibility becoming to an administrator, instead of like a petulant child. 87.113.116.211 (talk) 22:37, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * If you are interested in starting a productive discussion, please start one. I'm not terribly interested in calling each other names or insulting each other.  It isn't a very useful way to have a discourse.  I would be most open to discussing any matter with you as a reasonable person, but this is not how reasonable people talk about things.  So, if you would like to have that reasonable discourse, you may start it at any time.  If you would just rather take easy shots at me, I'd really rather that you didn't.  The choice is entirely yours how we proceed here.  -- Jayron  32  22:39, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I repeat: "Blow it out your ass. Lick my nutsack. Sit and spin..." That's not productive discussion or how reasonable people talk about things. Over and out. 87.113.116.211 (talk) 22:42, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You are entirely correct about that. Is there anything else you would like to converse about?  Because I don't think I have disagreed with you on that point.  -- Jayron  32  22:43, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I can't prove it to you: I can only ask you to trust that IP 87.113 is not me. Thank you for your message at my talk page: hope to have more productive dealings with you in the future. Kevin McE (talk) 06:17, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I already knew that. But thanks for confirming it.  Anyhoo, happy day.  -- Jayron  32  11:44, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Wikimeet
"... but how do we get the chicken to wear the rubber pants?" -- Orange Mike |  Talk  15:59, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * :) -- Jayron  32  17:06, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Kiribati castaway
Hi dear, I created his article, Toakai Teitoi, do you think it could be suitable for DYK? Please answer back. Thank you. Timothyhere (talk) 17:46, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I think this doesn't stand any chance of surviving WP:NOTNEWS level scrutiny. Per WP:BLP1E, we shouldn't create articles about people whose reason for supposed notability is so fleeting.  -- Jayron  32  17:47, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm not lucky today. To be honest I just wanted to make Kiribati famous because I myself am a Kiribati Islander. Timothyhere (talk) 17:53, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Kiribati isn't famous enough? -- Jayron  32  17:54, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Many don't even know where we are. You knew? Timothyhere (talk) 17:55, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It's a sovereign nation, n'est ce pas? -- Jayron  32  17:56, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes, fortunately, and now that you know that I'm a I-Kiribati, I'm not native English speaker, it's a lie on my user page, I speak gilbertese and fluent English but didn't find the template of gilbertese I tried to look for it. Timothyhere (talk) 18:03, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

ITN thread on embassy protests/attacks
Now at Main_Page/Errors.--Chaser (talk) 02:46, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Your feedback to my question/article in the Teahouse
Hey, I know I already thanked you under your response to my question about COI and my Ars Nova article, but just wanted to say that your response really made me feel a lot better about the whole process. Even if my article isn't approved, everything you said about it appearing to fit in well with the Wikipedia style gave me a major lift, after spending nearly two full days worrying about it doing so. You seem like a really great person and a fair and patient editor (or, at least, newbie caretaker), and I'm happy to have interacted with you. :-) RunnerOnIce (talk) 02:30, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You're quite welcome! -- Jayron  32  03:10, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Good articles (Participant Clean-Up)
Hello, you are receiving this message because you are currently a participant of WikiProject Good articles. Since the creation of the WikiProject, over 200 user's have joined to help review good article nominations and contribute to other sections of the WikiProject. Over the years, several of these users have stopped reviewing articles and/or have become inactive with the project but are still listed as participates. In order to improve communications with other participants and get newsletters sent out faster (newsletters will begin to be sent out monthly starting in October) all participants that are no longer active with the WikiProject will be removed from the participants list.

If you are still interested in being a participant for this WikiProject, please sign your user name here and please help review some articles so we can reduce the size of the backlog. If you are no longer interested, you do not need to sign your name anywhere and your name will be removed from the participants list after the deadline. Remember that even if you are not interested at this time, you can always re-add your name to the list whenever you want. The deadline to sign your name on the page above will be November 1, 2012. Thank-you. 13:27, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Update for: WikiProject Good articles (Participant Clean-Up)
Sorry for having to send out a second message but a user has brought to my attention that a point mentioned in the first message should be clarified. If user's don't sign on this page, they will be moved to an "Inactive Participants" list rather then be being removed from the entire WikiProject. Sorry for any confusion.--Dom497 (talk)15:17, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Cage-fight to the death
Hey Jayron32,

I noticed that you recently proposed a cage-fight to the death in helping resolve certain disputes. Another admin, The Blade of the Northern Lights, agreed with this.

It sounds to me like a fascinating idea. I was wondering, however, how would it be implemented? Would it be a real cage fight - or some online duel? The idea obviously has traction amongst editors and admins - do you think we should open an RfC on it?

Some humor can go a long way!

--<small style="border: 1px dashed;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> Activism  1234  04:41, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No, we build a big metal cage, throw them in half naked (i'm partial to loin cloths myself), and whoever is the last one alive gets to edit the disputed article to their liking. No RFC needed.  Just some spectators willing to place bets and someone to sell beers to the crowd.  -- Jayron  32  04:44, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh wow, that's interesting. Perhaps in really contentious articles, we can drop them on a desolate island on the opposite ends and have them track each other down and kill and survive with just a few resources? I'm not too fond of building the big metal cage - why have us do all the dirty work?  Let them do it!  --<small style="border: 1px dashed;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> Activism  1234  04:48, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Nah, too boring. They could live for months.  Big metal cage, teeth and nails, punch the other guy till he dies.  Then you WP:OWN the article.  -- Jayron  32  04:49, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, but living for months is the excitement, that's what fueled The Hunger Games! The anticipation, what will happen next... --<small style="border: 1px dashed;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> Activism  1234  05:00, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Cage. Blood. Death. -- Jayron  32  05:02, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * In the old days, we'd just tie their left hands together with a towel and put knives in their right hands. Much cheaper than building a cage, and you can use the towel to mop the mess when it's over.&mdash;Kww(talk) 05:30, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * That'd work too. -- Jayron  32  05:31, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 23
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Needtobreathe, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Keane (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 14:50, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Another barnstar for you!

 * Thank you dearly! -- Jayron  32  00:06, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. You help out here a lot, and you're one of the most intelligent Wikipedians that I know. :) I have a question--would you be able to please help me out with this question--Reference_desk/Humanities? If not, that's okay. Thank you very much. Futurist110 (talk) 01:01, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your response. I responded to you on that thread. Futurist110 (talk) 04:17, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

You're on a roll today

 * Butter me... -- Jayron  32  00:13, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Page Curation newsletter
Hey. This will be, if not our final newsletter, one of the final ones :). After months of churning away at this project, our final version (apart from a few tweaks and bugfixes) is now live. Changes between this and the last release include deletion tag logging, a centralised log, and fixes to things like edit summaries.

Hopefully you like what we've done with the place; suggestions for future work on it, complaints and bugs to the usual address :). We'll be holding a couple of office hours sessions, which I hope you'll all attend. Many thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 11:11, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Why thank you kindly! -- Jayron  32  16:36, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

king.parker3
I can see this one is going to be a challenge. That's twice within an hour he's asked the same question about conflict, I'm not sure he's grasped how to edit a section on the question page - just keeps using the ask a question button. NtheP (talk) 20:08, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Eh. He's no different than any of a dozen such new editors who show up.  I was probably an idiot when I first got here too, whatever it was, 6-7 years ago.  We'll just keep working with him until he shows that he isn't willing to be worked with.  ANd I haven't seen that yet.  -- Jayron  32  20:13, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Updating an out of date Wikipedia page for a company
Hello Jayron32! I am looking into editing the Wikipedia page for a company that has a lot of outdated/old information. I am wondering what the best process for this would be - should we click the Talk button on the company page, then click the Edit button and include an upfront justification as to why we would like to change the current information, and then drop in our suggested revised version, making sure to cite each reference? Ideally, we would like the entire page revised, and not just sections.

We also want to respect how fragile the Wikipedia editing process is and would not like to be blocked from editing because we make a misstep.

Would I be able to private message you the link to the Wikipedia company page and our suggested new content, with references included, so you could let me know if it's good to submit or if you see any red flags?

Please let me know, your expertise is greatly appreciated! Best, Hailey Sept 25, 2012 @ 2:00PM PT Hailey Thompson (talk) 21:00, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The best thing to do, if you want to exercise caution, is to use the talk page. What I would do is to leave a note explaining what changes you wish to make, with links or other references to sources of the changes (how do we know the new information is trustworthy, show us in reliable sources) and leave all of that on the talk page.  Then give it a week or so so people can look it over and make any comments on your suggestions.  If no one objects after a reaosnable amount of time, you can go ahead and make the changes.  If you need specific help, or specific review of what you want to do, just do as I said, and leave me a note telling me which article you are seeking to change, and I'll see what I can do for you.  -- Jayron  32  21:27, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

ANI
Well, if the user does it again (and he probably will, as stated by him:), and again... without wanting to hear any advice, then I will come back to ANI. --Müdigkeit (talk) 14:27, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You have fun with that. -- Jayron  32  14:30, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Not really.--Müdigkeit (talk) 14:31, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Please sign your posts
A reader scanning ANI should be able to know who closed a discussion at a glance without having to go mucking through it. Please sign your post. Nobody Ent 15:22, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I did. I stated clearly and unambiguously that I closed the discussion.  It's right there.  When I said, and I quote, "I am hatting this discussion", what I meant by that was "I am hatting this discussion".  -- Jayron  32  15:24, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I think he meant that the note in the collapsed header itself wasn't signed, so someone would have to uncollapse it (and/or wade through page history) to see who closed it. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 15:27, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I suppose i could have done that as well, except that prior to this discussion, it would have been odd for me to do so, as it isn't a widespread practice to do so. Yes, I know that each of you are going to come up with 4,783 diffs which show people signing inside the hat comment.  Regardless, a quick perusal of the entirety of Wikipedia will show that signing inside the hat is not universal or even widespread, even if it does sometime occur.  I claimed the hat, I've now also claimed the claiming of the hat.  Am I allowed to now go do something else with my valuable time, or do we need to waste more of our collective time discussing this?  -- Jayron  32  15:36, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Wow!
How do you do it Jayron? How are you so familiar with so many things, like leaf lobation and the Canadian Shield? That Canadian Shield info really made me appreciate your contribution here. A great day to you!  DRosenbach  ( Talk 18:56, 27 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your kind words! The answer is: My brain is the internet. I don't know everything ahead of time (well, the Canadian Shield answer I did, because I have taught High School Earth Science, and you tend to learn what you are teaching to others). Probably half of the answers I give on the ref desks I didn't know anymore than the question asker did either. What happens is I know how to find the answer. For your tree question, I typed "tree identification" into Google, found that arborday.org website, and played around till I found a match, and then posted the result. If I have any skill, it isn't in knowing more information, it is in using the internet to find that information. -- Jayron  32  19:01, 27 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, and I love barnstars. It is a little bit of conceited vanity.  I don't "hunt" for them, but I accept them willingly and am flattered when I get them.  -- Jayron  32  19:02, 27 September 2012 (UTC)


 * What I like about Jayron's answer to that question is that he didn't just write down (what he thought, guessed, or determined was) the answer, but that he also explained how and where he got it, and pointed to appropriate resources so that other readers will be able to answer similar questions in the future. That's the sort of thing that I really like to see, and that we should all be striving to do at our Reference Desk.  Kudos! TenOfAllTrades(talk) 19:57, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I try to do it right.  I don't always succeed, but I do try.  -- Jayron  32  19:58, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Great Tool!

 * Thank you dearly. Yeah, I found it a few days ago, and I was just waiting for an opportunity to whip it out.  Pretty cool stuff.  Google never ceases to amaze me with the tools it has, and a LOT of it goes unadvertised.  You have to play around with it to find out how it works.  The main search bar also works as a fully functioning dictionary (start any search with the word "define" and calculator (just type in any math problem) and unit convertor (start any search with the word "convert").  Google is really wonderful stuff, not just for the Web Search, but for all of their other search functions which allow really excellent research, like the Ngrams tool.  It's why I will never increment "Bing";s edit counter with so much as a visit.  Google rocks.  -- Jayron  32  03:56, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * In response to your edit summary, coming across gems like this, a great web tool, a few great books and websites (yours, again!), things that either magnify or fill in your knowledge is the great argument in favor of having a ref desk. And no ref desk without ref desk editors. μηδείς (talk) 04:07, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Dispute Resolution RFC
Hello.As a member of Wikiproject Dispute Resolution I am just letting you know that there is an RFC discussing changes to dispute resolution on Wikipedia. You can find the RFC on this page. If you have already commented there, please disregard this message. Regards, Steven   Zhang  Help resolve disputes! 08:52, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

JP Manoux asking more questions
Seems he'd like a swift resolution and hasn't heard from WMF yet. -- Jprg1966  (talk)  15:51, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll make a few contacts. I haven't heard squat either. -- Jayron  32  21:32, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
SarahStierch (talk) 22:19, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Mars Hill College
Can someone tell me how to cite correctly then?

I have several websites. I tried to cite it with the actual Mars Hill College website...I want this to be added but nobody has responded to my request for help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ncashbo (talk • contribs) 04:50, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, it looks like you handled the referencing process OK. Just use http://www.mhc.edu/about-mhc instead of the Wikipedia article, and you should be fine.  -- Jayron  32  04:52, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

OK. So, when I hit the 'cite this source' I can just add the http://www.mhc.edu/about-mhc for the citation and that will be enough? I don't know how many sources I need to use? I don't want it to look like false information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ncashbo (talk • contribs) 04:54, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, just use the "cite" tab in the edit window, then click the "templates" pulldown, select "cite web" and fill out the form. Use that address as the URL, put the title of the page under title, enter the date you accessed the page, etc.  Just fill it all out, and it will insert it for you.  -- Jayron  32  04:57, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Great! Thank you a lot for your help. I just cited that source so hopefully it should be ok now. Do you think you could take a look at it and make sure for me? If not, that is quite ok. I think it should be good now though. Thanks again for your help. Ncashbo (talk) 04:59, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me. -- Jayron  32  05:01, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Hello again. I thought I had it all worked out on this page but two people have pulled it from the page and I don't really understand why. One said it still wasn't cited correctly and another said it shouldn't be on there to begin with. I saw that you were a Wiki-Admin and I don't know if you can do anything about this? I thought since MHC was both the oldest college in western NC and a historic site it fit that section. Is there anything you can do about this? Thanks in advanceNcashbo (talk) 16:43, 29 September 2012 (UTC)