User talk:K6ka/Archive 26

GOCE March newsletter
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:52, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-13
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * Some development will be slower than planned. This is because of the current pandemic. You can see the new deployment guidelines. This is to avoid risks when some persons could be unavailable.
 * There was a problem when adding interwiki links. The tool you use to add interwiki links could suggest the wrong project to link to. This has now been fixed.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 24 March. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 25 March. It will be on all wikis from 26 March (calendar).

Future changes
 * There is a project to make editing easier for newcomers. The developers are trying to understand what initiatives different Wikipedias have to welcome newcomers. They also want to know which templates are often used for maintenance activities. You can help this project by checking if your wiki's pages are listed on Wikidata.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.  17:07, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 March 2020
 * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:42, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-14
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * The beta version of the Wikipedia app for Android can now help users add tags on Commons. These tags are called depicts.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 31 March. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 1 April. It will be on all wikis from 2 April (calendar).

Future changes
 * The video player will change to be simpler and more modern. The current beta feature will become the video player for everyone. The old player will be removed.
 * There is a project to make templates easier to use. The next few weeks the developers will present ideas on the project page. You can watch that page if you are interested in giving feedback.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.  17:25, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – April 2020
News and updates for administrators from the past month (March 2020).

Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg Cabayi • Lee Vilenski
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Boing! said Zebedee
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Jonny-mt • MarkGallagher • PeaceNT
 * Pictogram voting rename.png →

Bureaucrat changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg SilkTork • WereSpielChequers

CheckUser changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg NativeForeigner

Oversight changes
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Someguy1221
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Daniel Case

Guideline and policy news
 * There is an ongoing request for comment to streamline the source deprecation and blacklisting process.

Technical news
 * There is a plan for new requirements for user signatures. You can give feedback.

Arbitration
 * Following the banning of an editor by the WMF last year, the Arbitration Committee resolved to hold a Arbcom RfC regarding on-wiki harassment. A draft RfC has been posted at Arbitration Committee/Anti-harassment RfC (Draft) and not open to comments from the community yet. Interested editors can comment on the RfC itself on its talk page.

Miscellaneous
 * The WMF has begun a pilot report of the pages most visited through various social media platforms to help with anti-vandalism and anti-disinformation efforts. The report is updated daily and will be available through the end of May.

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:00, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Follow Up
So how do we edit the status of an organization if it is now defunct? That was the goal of original edit. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.17.13.40 (talk) 22:15, 1 April 2020 (UTC)


 * You cite a source that proves the organization is officially defunct, and then change "is an organization" to "was an organization". That's the least you can do. We do not remove articles simply because an organization ceases to exist. Wikipedia is not a catalog of currently active companies. — k6ka  🍁 ( Talk ·  Contributions ) 22:20, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-15
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * There was a problem with user pages not being shown properly on desktop. This was because of a bug. It will soon be fixed.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 7 April. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 8 April. It will be on all wikis from 9 April (calendar).

Future changes
 * MediaWiki will use a newer version of Unicode. Some characters that did not have an upper case equivalent before do now. Titles beginning with one of these characters will be moved. A list of these titles can be seen on Phabricator. The titles will be renamed by the user . This will start on 13 April 2020. You can rename them before this if you wish and the new title can be different from the one the script would rename it to.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.  19:02, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-16
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * You can now use the  search word on all Wikipedias. It searches articles by topic.
 * You can see wiki tools in the new Tools Gallery.
 * You can see edits from the Wikimedia Cloud Services in a new dashboard.
 * When you use filters on a history page you sometimes don't see any edits. There is a text explaining this now. Before it was just empty.
 * There is a new Wikimedia Technical Blog.

Problems
 * There was a problem with the Wikidata database last week. Some wikis went down for twenty minutes. Wikidata and other projects showed error messages. Interwiki links were not shown, some tools did not work and other problems. Some of this was fixed quickly. The developers are working on fixing the rest.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from April 14. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from April 15. It will be on all wikis from April 16 (calendar).

Future changes
 * Some graphs have not worked on mobile. This will soon be fixed.
 * The article tab on talk pages of redirects links to the target of the redirect. It could link to the redirect page itself instead. You can leave feedback on this.
 * For pages using syntax highlighting, the use of the deprecated  tag, as well as the use of the deprecated   parameter, will add tracking categories.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.  15:30, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #1 – Discussion tools
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The Editing team has been working on the talk pages project. The goal of the talk pages project is to help contributors communicate on wiki more easily. This project is the result of the Talk pages consultation 2019.



The team is building a new tool for replying to comments now. This early version can sign and indent comments automatically. Please test the new Reply tool.


 * On 31 March 2020, the new tool was offered as a Beta Feature editors at four Wikipedias:  Arabic, Dutch, French, and Hungarian.  If your community also wants early access to the new tool, contact User:Whatamidoing (WMF).
 * The team is planning some upcoming changes. Please review the proposed design and share your thoughts on the talk page.  The team will test features such as:
 * an easy way to mention another editor ("pinging"),
 * a rich-text visual editing option, and
 * other features identified through user testing or recommended by editors.

To hear more about Editing Team updates, please add your name to the "Get involved"  section of the project page. You can also watch these pages: the main project page, Updates, Replying, and User testing.

– PPelberg (WMF) (talk) & Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 15:45, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

User talk:Rocky McNugget
You may wish to revoke TPA.--Cahk (talk) 07:13, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-17
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Tech News
 * The next issue of Tech News will be sent out on 4 May 2020.

Recent changes
 * Octicons-tools.svg The small wiki toolkits is to help smaller wikis that need technical skills. They can learn and share technical skills.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Over-qualified CSS selectors in Wikimedia skins have been removed.  is now  .   is now  .   is now  . This is so the skins can use HTML5 elements. If your gadgets or user styles used them you will have to update them.

Changes later this week
 * There is no new MediaWiki version this week.

Future changes
 * Some things on the wikis might look weird or not work in Internet Explorer 8 in the future. Internet Explorer 8 was replaced in 2011.
 * The font in the diffs will change.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 28 April next week. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 29 April next week. It will be on all wikis from 30 April next week (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.  18:45, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

PC trial request
Hi I noticed that you semi-protected Bishop Auckland however, because there was only one JackSucksAtLife edit since it was unprotected, I think the semiprotection was a little undeserved. I think a pending changes trial should be set up unless there is a high edit rate on the article. Ocelot Creeper ( ta lk ) 22:38, 22 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your message. I stand by my semi-protection given how long this kerfuffle has been going on for (apparently much of the vandalism was being done by JackSucksAtLife's fans, and they've been at it for much too long). I would prefer that his fans lose interest and go away rather than still having to undo their edits. The page has been protected numerous times previously with escalating protection lengths, so this is following standard pattern. I will not, however, object if another admin decides to apply PC protection. On another note, I am still miffed that I made an unwelcome appearance in one of his videos, and his fans have attempted to harass me on Twitter. — k6ka  🍁 ( Talk ·  Contributions ) 23:16, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks. Ocelot Creeper  ( ta lk ) 02:31, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 April 2020
 * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:17, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – May 2020
News and updates for administrators from the past month (April 2020). Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Gnangarra • Kaisershatner • Malcolmxl5

CheckUser changes
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Callanecc

Oversight changes
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg HJ Mitchell

Guideline and policy news
 * Discretionary sanctions have been authorized for all pages and edits related to COVID-19, to be logged at WP:GS/COVID19.
 * Following a recent discussion on Meta-Wiki, the edit filter maintainer global group has been created.
 * A request for comment has been proposed to create a new main page editor usergroup.
 * A request for comment has been proposed to make the bureaucrat activity requirements more strict.

Technical news
 * The Editing team has been working on the talk pages project. You can review the proposed design and share your thoughts on the talk page.
 * created a script that will show a link to the proper Special:Undelete page when viewing a since-deleted revision, see User:Enterprisey/link-deleted-revs.

Miscellaneous
 * A request for comment closed with consensus to create a Village Pump-style page for communication with the Wikimedia Foundation.

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:19, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Happy Birthday!
 Happy Birthday! Have a very happy birthday on your special day!

Best wishes, CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 02:19, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * K6ka, you are probably not young anymore. Happy birthday :D TonyBallioni (talk) 02:20, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I am still quite young. At least, I certainly do feel young. Part of me feels like it's still in high school. — k6ka  🍁 ( Talk ·  Contributions ) 02:23, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * The workforce and alcohol will help with that. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:35, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-19
<section begin="technews-2020-W19"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * Some wikis will be on read-only for a few minutes on 5 May. This will happen around 05:00 UTC. This is for database maintenance.
 * Some wikis will be on read-only for a few minutes on 7 May. This will also affect CentralAuth. This can for example affect global renames, password changes, changing or confirming your email address and logging in to new wikis. This will happen around 05:00 UTC. This is for database maintenance.

Changes later this week
 * You can get a notification when someone links to a page you created. You can soon turn these notifications off for individual pages.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 5 May. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 6 May. It will be on all wikis from 7 May (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W19"/> 16:59, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-20
<section begin="technews-2020-W20"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * Everyone can now import photos from Flickr to Commons with the UploadWizard. Before this only autopatrollers on Commons could import photos from Flickr.

Problems
 * Commons will be on read-only for a few minutes on 12 May. This will happen around 05:00 UTC. This is for database maintenance.
 * Several wikis including Wikidata will be on read-only for a few minutes on 19 May. This will happen around 05:00 UTC. English Wikipedia will be on read-only for a few minutes on 21 May 05:00 UTC. This is for database maintenance.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 12 May. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 13 May. It will be on all wikis from 14 May (calendar).

Future changes
 * Octicons-tools.svg JavaScript scripts and gadgets can no longer check multiple keys at once via  or  . You can use   or   to check one at a time instead.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W20"/> 20:41, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you
I am sorry this probably isn't the right place to post this, but thank you so much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lanchorux (talk • contribs) 00:11, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Rename request(urgent)
Hii, can you please look at my rename request under AnadiDoD to AnM2002 please. It's really urgent as I have explained in the reason kindly look into it ASAP. I'll be grateful for your help. AnM2002 (talk) 12:31, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Growth team newsletter #13
Welcome to the thirteenth newsletter from the Growth team!

The Growth team's objective is to work on software changes that help retain new contributors in mid-size Wikimedia projects.

Join the conversation: structured tasks
We are looking for community input on a new project to make it easy for newcomers to make real article edits.

In our previous newsletter, we talked about the productive edits coming from the newcomer tasks feature. Those good results have continued: about 900 newcomers made over 5,000 suggested edits so far. We've learned that newcomers are interested in receiving suggested edits.

Now, we are thinking about how to supply them a feed of easy edits that will help more of them be successful quickly. We have a new idea called "structured tasks". This would aim to break down edits into steps that are easy for newcomers and easy on mobile devices.

In the past, certain kinds of editing tasks have been structured. For instance, adding categories through HotCat. Now, we are thinking about how to structure the editing of articles. The goal is to allow newcomers can make large content additions, especially from their mobile devices.

Please visit the project page and respond to the discussion questions listed on the talk page. You are welcome to show this project to others in your community. You can help by translating the materials to your language so that more voices can join in. We will be having this conversation until June 18.

Expanding to more wikis
We have expanded to six new wikis, and are looking for more interested communities.

In the last two months, we deployed Growth features to six new wikis: Ukrainian, Serbian, Hungarian, Armenian, and Basque Wikipedias, and French Wiktionary. Newcomers from these wikis have already contributed over 600 edits through Growth features.

We want to expand to more wikis in the coming months, and we are looking for interested communities. French Wikipedia already agreed and will be the next one to join the experiment. We will contact several other wikis in the coming weeks to offer them to participate.

Do you think the Growth Team features would be a good addition to your wiki? Please see this translatable summary of Growth features. You can share with your communities and start a discussion. Then, please contact us to begin the process!

Other updates


Work continues on improving newcomer tasks and the homepage.


 * In March, we deployed an upgrade to the topic matching in newcomer tasks. The current version offers 39 different topics using new ORES models.
 * In April, we completed an A/B test of two homepage configurations. We learned that more newcomers will attempt suggested edits if the module is made more prominent. We are implementing those learnings in our next test.  See the full results here.
 * We are currently working on guidance for newcomer tasks. It will use the help panel to guide newcomers through completing easy edits.
 * Our next step is to create new configurations of the homepage. The goal is to encourage more newcomers to begin doing suggested edits.

As usual, we are still welcoming your feedback and questions about our features. Please contact us on the project talk page!

'' Growth team's newsletter prepared by the Growth team and posted by bot • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. '' 14:29, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-21
<section begin="technews-2020-W21"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * If you forget your password you can ask for a new one to be sent to your email address. You need to know your email address or your username. You can choose that you need to enter both your email address and your username. This is a preference. This is to get fewer password reset emails someone else asked for. This is now available on all Wikimedia wikis.

Problems
 * There is a bug that creates problems for iPhone users with iOS 13 and Safari. If you use an iPhone to read or edit Wikipedia and see bugs on the mobile site you can report them.
 * Several wikis including Wikidata will be on read-only for a few minutes on 19 May. This will happen around 05:00 UTC. English Wikipedia will be on read-only for a few minutes on 21 May 05:00 UTC. This is for database maintenance.

Changes later this week
 * The Wikipedia app for Android can let users add depicts on Commons. The beta version used computer-aided tagging. This was removed to get more specific depicts.
 * There is no new MediaWiki version this week.

Future changes
 * Graphs will be rendered in the reader's browser. This will use Javascript. Graphs will hopefully work better for everyone who uses Javascript. It will not work for users who don't use Javascript. This will not affect diagrams in image files.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Some CSS for the skins has been simplified. This affects ,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,   and  . They will have to remove  . You will have to update your gadgets, scripts or user styles. This is so we can use HTML5.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Some CSS for the Vector skin has been changed. This affects ,  ,  ,   and  . They can no longer use  . You might need to update your gadgets, scripts or user styles. See how.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W21"/> 17:18, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

User talk:Klappbutter
You sure about this one? A quick look might make one think it's penis vandalism or similar, but his edits appear to be at worst unnecessary. Correcting "bin men" to "garbage men" isn't vandalism; a lot of English speakers will never have heard the term "bin man", even though it's the UK English form of the expression. And the song "Jan Pillemann Otze" really is a penis song: "My Pillemann is not insanely long, but it is extremely thin!" (Not sure where the "Unt" comes in.) --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106; &#x1D110;&#x1d107; 15:46, 23 May 2020 (UTC)


 * I'm no German speaker, but you seem to be right: it's not vandalism and seems to be an attempt at correcting the translations on the page. I was trusting CLCStudent on this one, but looks like he was thrown off by this as well. Feel free to unblock. — k6ka  <span title="Canadian!" style="color:red">🍁 ( Talk ·  Contributions ) 15:52, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-22
<section begin="technews-2020-W22"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Changes later this week
 * The visual editor will now work in the Modern skin. The changes that needed to happen for this to work could cause problems for some scripts or gadgets.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from May 26. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from May 27. It will be on all wikis from May 28 (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W22"/> 14:18, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 May 2020
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:06, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – June 2020
News and updates for administrators from the past month (May 2020). Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg CaptainEek • Creffett • Cwmhiraeth
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Anna Frodesiak • Buckshot06 • Ronhjones • SQL

CheckUser changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg SQL

Guideline and policy news
 * A request for comment asks whether the Unblock Ticket Request System (UTRS) should allowed any unblock request or just private appeals.
 * The Wikimedia Foundation that they will develop a universal code of conduct for all WMF projects. There is an open local discussion regarding the same.

Arbitration
 * A motion was passed to enact a 500/30 restriction on articles related to the history of Jews and antisemitism in Poland during World War II (1933–45), including the Holocaust in Poland. Article talk pages where disruption occurs may also be managed with the stated restriction.

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:27, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-23
<section begin="technews-2020-W23"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * There is a new beta version of the Wikimedia Commons app for Android. It has a new zoom function when you look at images. It can also suggest places when you upload geotagged photos.

Problems
 * There was a problem with the Commons database on 27 May. Commons could not be edited for eight minutes. Because of this problem the database was moved. This caused another short read-only time on 29 May.
 * The Vector skin had a problem where you couldn't add links to the article in other languages. You couldn't see the section if there were no links to other languages already. It also removed content translation links and links to language settings. This has now been fixed.

Changes later this week
 * You can get a notification when someone links to a page you created. You can turn these notifications off for individual pages. You can soon turn them off also in the notifications you get.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 2 June. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 3 June. It will be on all wikis from 4 June (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W23"/> 22:31, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thanks for adding the filter log note to the Kingshowman block. Appreciated. Glen 13:09, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-24
<section begin="technews-2020-W24"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * Some articles have tables that can be sorted in different ways. For example a list of countries can be sorted alphabetically but you can click on the size column to sort them by size. If you clicked on the column a second time it would sort the countries from the bottom to the top instead. A third click will now take you back to the original sorting.
 * Self-closed tags now work as in the HTML5 specifications. This means you should stop using some of them.  is an example of a self-closed tag that won't work.   can be self-closed. Pages with tags that should not be self-closed have been listed in a tracking category since 2016. They will be listed in Special:LintErrors/self-closed-tag. This doesn't affect   or.
 * There is a banner called . It is for example used by the Wikivoyages, Wikimedia Russia and the Catalan, Basque, Galician and Turkish Wikipedias. It will now been seen by mobile visitors too. Before this it was only seen on desktop. The wikis should update instructions on   so that editors know to test and style for mobile too.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-tools.svg You can now edit MassMessage descriptions through the API. This is useful for tools and gadgets.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 9 June. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 10 June. It will be on all wikis from 11 June (calendar).

Future changes
 * A temporary fix helped wikis make their main pages more mobile friendly. This was in 2012. It has not been recommended since 2017. It will not work after 13 July. Wikis should use TemplateStyles instead. 118 wikis need to fix this. You can read more and see if your wiki is affected.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W24"/> 21:12, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #2 – Quick updates
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This edition of the Editing newsletter includes information the Talk pages project, an effort to help contributors communicate on wiki more easily. The central project page is on MediaWiki.org.


 * Reply tool : This is available as a Beta Feature at the four partner wikis (Arabic, Dutch, French, and Hungarian Wikipedias). The Beta Feature will get new features soon.  The new features include writing comments in a new visual editing mode and pinging other users by typing  . You can test the new features on the Beta Cluster.  Some other wikis will have a chance to try the Beta Feature in the coming months.
 * New requirements for user signatures : Soon, users will not be able to save invalid custom signatures in Special:Preferences. This will reduce signature spoofing, prevent page corruption, and make new talk page tools more reliable.  Most editors will not be affected.
 * New discussion tool : The Editing team is beginning work on a simpler process for starting new discussions.   You can see the initial design on the project page.
 * Research on the use of talk pages : The Editing team worked with the Wikimedia research team to study how talk pages help editors improve articles.  We learned that new editors who use talk pages make more edits to the main namespace than new editors who don't use talk pages.

– Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:11, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-25
<section begin="technews-2020-W25"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * Octicons-tools.svg Toolforge hosts several tools created by the Wikimedia community like edit counters or enhanced editors. It is changing the domain from tools.wmflabs.org to toolforge.org. The routing scheme is moving from tools.wmflabs.org/toolname to toolname.toolforge.org. You can read the details. Tools that use OAuth will have to be updated to keep working. You can ask for help.

Problems
 * There is a Wikidata item link in the sidebar on many pages. This disappeared for a couple of days for users who have the Monobook skin. This was because of a bug. It has now been fixed.
 * Editing, logging in and logging out didn't work properly for a short period of time last week. It was soon fixed.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 16 June. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 17 June. It will be on all wikis from 18 June (calendar).

Future changes
 * Octicons-tools.svg Pywikibot is a Python library to automate work on wikis. It will not support Python 2 after the new version in July. Support for Python 3.4 and MediaWiki below 1.19 will also be dropped. You should migrate to Python 3. You can ask for help.
 * The selectors  and   will no longer work in the Vector skin. This can affect gadgets and user scripts.    should be replaced by  .   should be replaced by.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W25"/> 21:38, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Hey!!
Hey!! Is there anything I can help with? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Imajaymalik (talk • contribs) 01:10, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Regarding Username
Hey k6!!

This username 'Ajay Malik' I'm wishing for, have not made any contribution, so it can be usurped, right?

Ajay Malik — Preceding unsigned comment added by Imajaymalik (talk • contribs) 02:57, 19 June 2020 (UTC)


 * It looks eligible. 's home wiki is on the Hindi-language Wikipedia, however, so if you want to request usurpation, you will need to request it on Meta Wiki. — k6ka  <span title="Canadian!" style="color:red">🍁 ( Talk ·  Contributions ) 03:05, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-26
<section begin="technews-2020-W26"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * There are some new tools to make it easier for newcomers to start editing. They are available on some wikis. These wikis had a problem with the visual editor for a short period of time last week. This was because of a bug in the new tools. It was soon fixed.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Some user scripts and gadgets stopped working because of a change to CSS selectors.  should be replaced with   to fix this.

Changes later this week
 * The developers are working on a new interface to solve edit conflicts on talk pages. This will be released on 24 June. You can give feedback.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 23 June. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 24 June. It will be on all wikis from 25 June (calendar).

Future changes
 * A temporary fix helped wikis make their main pages more mobile friendly. This was in 2012. It has not been recommended since 2017. It will not work after 13 July. Wikis should use TemplateStyles instead. 91 wikis still need to fix this. You can read more and see if your wiki is affected.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W26"/> 18:48, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 June 2020
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:53, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

thanks
Thanks for handling that onslaught of Romania in WWI -- I think much is copied from a translation (by Google??) of an old history book by Constantin Kiritescu. Rjensen (talk) 22:34, 28 June 2020 (UTC)


 * They had way too much time on their hands. And I'm pretty sure they're all socks of Aristiderazu. — k6ka  <span title="Canadian!" style="color:red">🍁 ( Talk ·  Contributions ) 22:45, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-27
<section begin="technews-2020-W27"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * Everyone was logged out. This was because a few users saw the wikis as if they were logged in to someone else's account. The problem should be fixed now.
 * Some readers didn't see new edits to pages. If the page had been recently changed they saw an older version of the page instead. This only affected readers who were logged out. It lasted for ten days. It has been fixed.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 30 June. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 1 July. It will be on all wikis from 1 July (calendar).

Future changes
 * Octicons-tools.svg The Modern and Monobook skins use the ID  for the go button. This is   for Vector. To have the same ID for all skins it will change to   in Monobook and Modern too. This will affect gadgets and user scripts. It will happen on 23 July. They should be updated to use  . You can read more and see a list of affected scripts.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W27"/> 16:30, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

WikiLoop Battlefield new name vote
Dear K6ka,

Thank you for your interest and contributions to WikiLoop Battlefield. We are holding a voting for proposed new name. We would like to invite you to this voting. The voting is held at m:WikiProject_WikiLoop/New_name_vote and ends on July 13th 00:00 UTC.

xinbenlv Talk, Remember to "ping" me 05:13, 30 June 2020 (UTC)


 * ✅ — k6ka  <span title="Canadian!" style="color:red">🍁 ( Talk ·  Contributions ) 13:14, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – July 2020
News and updates for administrators from the past month (June 2020).

Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Malcolmxl5
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg John • TheCoffee • Tim!
 * Pictogram voting rename.png →
 * Pictogram voting rename.png →

CheckUser changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Bbb23

Interface administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg TonyBallioni

Guideline and policy news
 * A request for comment is in progress to remove the T2 (template that misrepresents established policy) speedy deletion criterion.

Technical news
 * Protection templates on mainspace pages are now automatically added by User:MusikBot II (BRFA).

Arbitration
 * Following the banning of an editor by the WMF last year, the Arbitration Committee resolved to hold an RfC regarding on-wiki harassment. The RfC has been posted at Arbitration Committee/Anti-harassment RfC and is open to comments from the community.
 * The Medicine case was closed, with a remedy authorizing standard discretionary sanctions for all discussions about pharmaceutical drug prices and pricing and for edits adding, changing, or removing pharmaceutical drug prices or pricing from articles.

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:25, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #3


Seven years ago this week, the Editing team made the visual editor available by default to all logged-in editors using the desktop site at the English Wikipedia. Here's what happened since its introduction:


 * The 50 millionth edit using the visual editor on desktop was made this year. More than 10 million edits have been made here at the English Wikipedia.
 * More than 2 million new articles have been created in the visual editor. More than 600,000 of these new articles were created during 2019.
 * Almost 5 million edits on the mobile site have been made with the visual editor. Most of these edits have been made since the Editing team started improving the mobile visual editor in 2018.
 * The proportion of all edits made using the visual editor has been increasing every year.
 * Editors have made more than 7 million edits in the 2017 wikitext editor, including starting 600,000 new articles in it. The 2017 wikitext editor is VisualEditor's built-in wikitext mode.  You can enable it in your preferences.
 * On 17 November 2019, the first edit from outer space was made in the mobile visual editor.
 * In 2019, 35% of the edits by newcomers, and half of their first edits, were made using the visual editor. This percentage has been increasing every year since the tool became available.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 02:06, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-28
<section begin="technews-2020-W28"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * The Score extension has been disabled for now. This is because of a security issue. It will work again as soon as the security issue has been fixed.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 7 July. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 8 July. It will be on all wikis from 9 July (calendar).

Future changes
 * Abstract Wikipedia is a new Wikimedia project. It will collect language-independent information that can be easily read in different languages. It builds on Wikidata. The name is preliminary. You can read more.
 * The iOS Wikipedia app developers are thinking about new experimental tools. If you use an iPhone you can help them by answering the survey.
 * Some rules for user signatures will soon be enforced. Lint errors and invalid HTML will no longer be allowed in user signatures. Nested substitution will not be allowed. A link to your user page, user talk page or user contributions will be required. You can check if your signature works with the new rules. This is because the signatures can cause problems for tools or other text on the page.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W28"/> 20:18, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-29
<section begin="technews-2020-W29"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * Users can thank others for their edits. Checkusers can now see user data related to that action. This can help identify sock puppets who harass others using thanks.

Problems
 * Everyone was logged out a couple of weeks ago to fix a security problem. The problem was not entirely fixed. Because of this everyone was logged out once again last week.

Changes later this week
 * Wikis that are not for one specific language can translate pages. Sometimes parts of translations are outdated or missing. Outdated translations are marked with a pink background . Missing translations will also be marked in the future. This markup can sometimes break things. It can soon be disabled by using  on the source page.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 14 July. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 15 July. It will be on all wikis from 16 July (calendar).

Future changes
 * Octicons-tools.svg Wikimedia code review plans to use GitLab. It would be hosted on Wikimedia servers.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W29"/> 16:30, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-30
<section begin="technews-2020-W30"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * A temporary fix helped wikis make their main pages more mobile friendly. This was in 2012. It has not been recommended since 2017. The mobile main page special casing stopped working 14 July. 60 wikis now have main pages that don't work well on mobile. You can see which ones, how to fix it and how to get help in Phabricator. This is the same problem that was reported in Tech News 2020/24 and 2020/26.

Problems
 * There is a problem with the interlanguage links. The interlanguage links are the links that help you find a specific page in a different language. The sorting is broken. The developers are working on a solution.
 * Some users keep getting the notifications for the same event. Some of these are old events.
 * Some users have trouble logging in. This is probably a browser cookie problem. The developers are working on understanding the problem. If you have trouble logging in you can see the details on Phabricator.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 21 July. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 22 July. It will be on all wikis from 23 July (calendar).

Future changes
 * There is a  link. This will disappear. That is because web browsers today can create a printable version or show how it will look in print anyway.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W30"/> 19:12, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-31
<section begin="technews-2020-W31"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * The Starter kit is now available for wiki communities. This page lists technical resources, tools, and recommendations. These are essential to operate a wiki project. This is mostly useful for smaller wikis where the community has limited experience with this.
 * The first features of the Desktop Improvements project are available for logged-in users on all wikis. In order to use them, uncheck ' in your local or global preferences in section '. More improvements are planned. Feedback is welcome.
 * Octicons-tools.svg On multiple wikis, a UTCLiveClock gadget is available. For wikis that import the gadget directly from mediawiki.org, end users can now choose a different timezone to show instead of UTC.

Problems
 * Octicons-tools.svg The deployment train for MediaWiki has been blocked this week.
 * Translation Notification Bot was sending the same message multiple times to every translator. This has been fixed.
 * Some users were receiving the same notification multiple times. This has been fixed.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from July 28. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from July 29. It will be on all wikis from JUly 30 (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W31"/> 13:52, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – August 2020
News and updates for administrators from the past month (July 2020). Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg Red Phoenix
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Euryalus • SQL
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Jujutacular • Monty845 • Rettetast • Madchester

Oversight changes
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg GB fan
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Keegan • Opabinia regalis • Premeditated Chaos

Guideline and policy news
 * There is an open request for comment to decide whether to increase the minimum duration a sanction discussion has to remain open (currently 24 hours).
 * Speedy deletion criterion T2 (template that misrepresents established policy) has been repealed following a request for comment.
 * Speedy deletion criterion X2 (pages created by the content translation tool) has been repealed following a discussion.
 * There is a proposal to restrict proposed deletion to confirmed users.

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:20, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

The Pogues inaccurately described as 'English' - when they were both English And Irish
Hi there,

I just wanted to bring you some information on the current debate. On The Pogues Talk page you can see in the section 'Irish-British' that there is a long chat about this subject.

I am aware the the page has been protected- which I agree needed doing, but while looking at the edit source of the page it states 'The Pogues were an English Celtic punk{{refn|group=nb|While often labelled as variously "Anglo-Irish", "Hiberno-English", or simply "Irish", amongst others, '

I believe that the evidence being used to justify the Pogues as English is unfair and inaccurate because for the following reasons which are taken from what I have said on the talk page:

The evidence used to say they are 'English' in interviews (even though it references only one interview) is from when the Irish members left the band, and while the interview isn't dated at the source point - it must be around 19 October 1993 after the Waiting For Herb album was released and after it's lasting Irish members (Terry and Phil) had left after recording it. It is well known that Shane et al left (among other reasons) because the band were moving away from the Irish tinged music they inevitably regrouped to play. I think that using this interview is not a way to truly represent the historicity of the band and the article was written during an odd time for the band that doesn't really acknowledge the Irish elements very accurately.

It reads 'So none of you are actually Irish. I didn't think you sounded very Irish. I just thought you had lost it from being away. 'No, we're actually all English. Shane was born in England. He did spend some of his childhood in Ireland but he was born in England. Spider's English. Terry Woods and Phillip Chevron were born and bred in Ireland but they're not in the band anymore. They were the nearest thing to Irish. The band started as a London/Irish band, but the emphasis is on London because that's where we came from, that's our roots.' - The article entitled 'The Reformation of That Irish Band From England: The Pogues' seems to hold the natural answer to me in that of mentioning 'England and Irish' and this shows that this is how they were regarded before the interview to some extent. But the article changes this band identity to just 'English' and does not reflect the band as it was for the majority of the time where it did have three Irish members in it and on how the band actually reformed with said Irish members up until Phil's death.

So on this basis Is there a reason why a compromise of 'English and Irish' cannot be reached please to reflect the state of the band when it disbanded rather than an interview written 21 years before their final tours and breakup that lasted 13 years? And furthermore, would the benefits of this compromise not help to put the issue to rest and reflect the band in how it was for the majority of it's existence, both in it's prime and since they reformed in 2001 - 2014?

The I received a reply which read:

'Thanks for your message and for joining the discussion! It's pretty common for articles linked in the news to experience a large increase in edits. Regrettably, in this instance, most edits have been unconstructive. I believe it's such a common misconception that the Pogues are Irish and from Dublin, that people swing by the article and 'correct' what they believe to be a mistake without checking the references. It's a shame the article had to be semi-protected due to edits like those (as well as the blatant, abusive vandalism). I'd like to take the time to appreciate the fact you instead investigated the article's sources, and took to the talk page to discuss the matter. It's very much appreciated; open and honest discussion is what makes Wikipedia such an invaluable resource. First of all, to reiterate, the Pogues are a band founded in London by three English people, one of whom (MacGowan) had parents born in Ireland. More importantly, and something that is often inexplicably overlooked in this discussion, is the band's view of their own identity — it's well referenced in the article (and noted in the discussion above) that the band consider themselves an English band playing a particular genre of music (namely Celtic, coupled with influences from many genres, cultures, and nationalities). Throughout the band's lifetime, it welcomed many new members, the vast majority of whom were also English or British; of these, only Cait O'Riordan and Philip Chevron are known to be Irish. Let's make a comparison with The Beatles for the sake of argument. As another editor pointed out, John Lennon had an Irish father (as an aside, his surname is derived from O'Lennon, the Anglicisation of "Leannáin"). Of The Beatles, John Lennon once said “We're all Irish” and you can find interviews in which he talks about the heavy Liverpool-Irish influence on the Beatles' music. Would the later addition of Stuart Sutcliffe, a Scottish musician with Irish ancestry, have meant the Beatles were best described as an "English and Irish" group? No, and nor would anybody suggest as such, because they're a band formed in London by English-born musicians, just as the Pogues are; the only difference is the Pogues focused on Celtic music, playing up the Irish element (that is, once the derision they suffered early on for being Englishmen playing Irish music had subsided to the point it stopped being a major impediment to their success (see Kiss My Arse: The Story of the Pogues, where the Pogues' representative Stan Brennan makes reference to the abuse they received in the early days, after MacGowan "came up with this Irish thing")). Back to the Pogues: so, how did the band view themselves? The official interview cited (The Reformation of That Irish Band From England: The Pogues) which you mention is not the only source given; it's one of many. Crucially, it isn't only Jem Finer who objected to the band being described as "Irish" — Jem Finer, Philip Chevron (who himself was Irish), and James Fearnley have all stated that the band is English, and discussed its misportrayal as "Irish" (or "British/Irish" and, amusingly, "English-Scottish"). Fearnley makes reference to this in his book, Here Comes Everybody: The Story of the Pogues (2012), in the context of the band coming under criticism for being "predominantly" English yet playing music described as 'being of the Celts' (i.e. "traditionally Irish"); as Finer has said, the band's identity is that of a London-founded, English band that plays Celtic music. Contrary to the objections Finer is referencing here, the fact the Pogues were a band founded in England by English-born members and comprised at all times by predominantly English musicians is not changed by the style of music they play, nor by the later addition of two Irish musicians. The "English Celtic punk" labelling is absolutely not simply the opinion of myself or other editors. In closing, allow me to quote Chevron himself (source). Keep in mind, not only was Chevron one of the few Irish-born members, but this statement is from October 2010; it cannot be dismissed as outdated or reflecting the band's early stages: "When people like Jem Finer protest, as they have done for 30 years, that the Pogues are not "an Irish band", they are not just semantically noting geographical and demographical facts, but stating a position that has held since Day One: that the Pogues are a bunch of people whose musical influences and interests are multiple and various". GhostOfNoMeme (talk) 11:55, 24 July 2020 (UTC)'

To which I replied:

Hi Ghostofnomeme, thanks for the warm message that is very nice to hear and sort of gives me hope for the human race in a way, as I slowly feel the ability to have open debate is being societally eroded. But that's another debate haha. I too appreciate the need to debate rather than make things worse or by shutting arguments down. This is a great way to talk about things and understand other points of view - ultimately this very mechanism has been used over thousands of years to create 'understanding' and 'reason'.

Respectfully, I firstly disagree with your first point that it was started by three 'English' people. This is because Shane MacGowan doesn't see himself as 'English' per se, so there is nuance. One of his famously attributed quotes is 'I'm just following the Irish tradition of songwriting, the Irish way of life, the human way of life. Cram as much pleasure into life, and rail against the pain you have to suffer as a result. Or scream and rant with the pain, and wait for it to be taken away with beautiful pleasure. . . ' - so if he saw himself as English, then wouldn't that be reflected in this quote?

I totally agree though that people often wrongly attribute them as being entirely Irish though, but would further the idea that they are 'only English' as inaccurate too. You mention Cait O'Riordan – well actually she was born in Nigeria, so if you are classing her as 'Irish' then surely we can afford the same right to MacGowan? Phil was born in Dublin, but also so was Terry Woods. It should also be noted that on Cait's wiki page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cait_O%27Riordan) that 'She played bass guitar for the British-Irish punk/folk band The Pogues'. So I would willingly take the compromise of 'British-Irish punk/folk rock band' to help solve this issue haha.

Comparing The Beatles to The Pogues is a hard one. They were totally different in style, outlook and origins. The Beatles didn't use traditional Irish songs or instruments at anytime and were actually from Liverpool. Also The Pogues' first album had at least 11 traditional Irish songs on the remastered edition including songs that pull heavily on the Irish identity such as 'Poor Paddy on the railway' and 'Muirsheen Durkin'. Surely these are also testamount to their underlying Irishness? even if it was just Cait and Shane's Irishness – the band owe a lot to Irish Culture and is surely proof of these too being Irish, thus being an integral part of the make up of the bands identity.

Fair enough about the 'Kiss my arse' book, but others including 'Here comes everybody' and 'A Drink with Shane MacGowan' mention how Shane felt like he didn't fit in and that the Irish thing wasn't some kind of gimmick – it was all that Shane knew. This is also well documented on Shane's very own wiki page were he is described as an 'Irish-English Vocalist', so again, surely if that wiki page can describe him like that, then how is it fair that the Pogues cannot do the same being that if you didn't have Shane (who wrote most of the songs and the biggest hitters), then you simply wouldn't have had the Pogues?

Now on the point about what the band say – actually Phil didn't explicitly object to them being described as Irish. You put some of the quote, but Here is the full quote:

'It's not really an issue, and I don't especially want to make it one, but the Pogues were a fully-fledged and realised band about two whole years before they made their debut album. When I say that there were more eclectic influences in the earliest days, and that the Velvet Underground, Country and Rockabilly were strong aspects of what the band did, I say so because I was there. Me and 30 to 50 other people, in the Bull & Gate, the 100 Club, the Sir George Robey, the Diorama, the Pindar of Wakefield and Dingwalls.

Naturally, the "Irish" aspect quickly became the Unique Selling Point as the band began to attract attention, not least from the smug, smacked-out coterie that was the Music Press in the early '80s, because that fitted most neatly with the "drunken paddy" stereotype they were quick to foist upon the band and it's easier to be a lazy journalist than a thoughtful one when you have numerous deadlines approaching and your drug-dealer's left town. After some consideration, I have elected to defend my position on this, not just because of dsweeney's insufferable "earlier than thou" posturing [and I realise the "early days" of the Pogues are a moveable feast, but not if your first Pogues gig was in 1982] but because I realised that this misunderstanding, widespread though it undoubtedly is, remains the source of a number of misapprehensions about The Pogues, but let's just zone in on one.

When people like Jem Finer protest, as they have done for 30 years, that the Pogues are not "an Irish band", they are not just semantically noting geographical and demographical facts, but stating a position that has held since Day One: that the Pogues are a bunch of people whose musical influences and interests are multiple and various, and it is this, rather than an intimate knowledge of O'Neill's Music Of Ireland, that gives the music of the Pogues its power, its passion and its distinction: it is obviously a music made by people of musical erudition who have found, or rediscovered if you prefer, that "Irish" music is uniquely equipped to provide the most direct route to the feet and the heart; but after all this time, when our music has become part of rock's musical vocabulary in its own right and has spawned hordes of imitators, it's easy to forget how comparatively little Irish music there has always been in the Pogues stew. And songs like "Haunted", "Ghost of a Smile" and "Lorelei", to name but three, are much closer cousins of Lou Reed than they are of Turlough O'Carolan [peace be upon him].

And finally, if you actually take the trouble to heed Shane on this subject over the years, you'll find he's saying exactly the same thing. Unlike Jem, Shane and some of the others, including myself, have tended to take the path of least resistance when discussing this in interviews and so on, partly because it's not what a journalist wants to hear when he's already framed his story in his head, but also because we more readily accept that what people really mean when they call us an "Irish band" is that the Pogues music has a Carnival aspect (in that it has a transgressive, libertine streak that people tend to associate with Irishness in, I suppose, a positive sense) that is best enjoyed at face value than analysed too deeply. Nevertheless, academics have filled many chapters of weighty cultural tomes analysing the Carnivalesque Pogues, and most of these books are readily available to anyone who is genuinely interested. '

He isn't saying they aren't Irish, but gently lilts towards his own opinion that he doesn't really care and The Pogues should be seen as a bit of fun and tha he doesn't want to rock any type of boat. So it's really neither 'for' or 'against' the description of the band being described as Irish.

Just look at their prime album 'If I Should Fall From Grace with God' – Aside from Fiesta, it is an undeniably Irish and English album in culture. It features songs such as 'Fairytale of New York' and 'Thousands are sailing' (written by Phil) – both of which describe what it is like being Irish immigrants. Then you have 'Streets of Sorrow/Birmingham 6' – The first part is a song about the troubles from Terry Woods' point of view as an Irishman and he even sings it. Then the second part is back to Shane and describes how 6 Irishmen were arrested and wrongly convicted for a crime in the UK. These republican themes are so Irish I don't know what more to say. Look at the other albums, How can songs such as 'sickbed of Cúchulainn' (which is grounded in Irish mythology and shows just how much MacGowan knew Irish history) not be proof of the Irishness within the band, and other songs that the Dubliners previously recorded such as 'gentleman soldier' and 'South Australia' add to this argument too.

In conclusion and in light of the above, is it not more accurate and inclusive that the label of 'English and Irish band' be applied to a band that owe so much to it's Irish members and Irish themed and traditional songs that appear throughout their entire discography up until the Irish members actually left? As Shane says in this video interview 'Of course I'm proud to be Irish' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcPNwSWky4g) (Please forgive the bad language in this interview!) Best regards and thanks very much in advance.Glaaaastonbury88 (talk) 16:03, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

A week on I have not received a reply to my points. On the basis of the evidence, reason and logic I have provided, which disproves that the band were only 'English' - can we make the reasonable adjustment of having them described as and 'English and Irish' Band please?

I'm not sure really what the mechanism is for debates - and since no one relied to my points, I see a reason for this is that my points are hard to refute and thus reasonable. This is not about winning or losing, this is about accurate information.

Thanks and all the best!Glaaaastonbury88 (talk) 09:10, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
 * {{u|Glaaaastonbury88}}, I am responding entirely and only to your last full paragraph/sentence, because expecting someone to read 17k, worth of text is entirely unnecessary. If you have made your case, and others have made an alternate case, and yet no one can come to a conclusion, you have a few options:
 * Get a Third Opinion. Note that this is only an option if there have only been two individuals in the discussion.
 * Go to WP:DRN and seek Dispute Resolution.
 * Start an RFC.
 * I would attempt them in that order. Also, if and when you make your next case, please try to keep it brief! You might have the best argument in the world, but if the reader cannot get through the wall of text without falling asleep they may just skip it entirely (as I have done) and your point will be moot. Primefac (talk) 13:34, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

{{u|Primefac}} Thanks for the reply - fair enough. That feels to me like a personal choice, I for one don't mind reading lots of information, unless you mean that the user I am contacting would investigate the 'talk' page in question for himself anyway, in which case I have unnecessarily copied it from there? Fair enough if that's what you mean. I agree and see what you mean. But, if meant otherwise then I would respectfully say that the point may be moot - but it is moot for you or who ever chooses not to bother reading an entire argument which I personally do not understand the logic behind - especially if they are involved in the original dispute, but each to their own. I suppose you can lead a horse to water...Hard to know what people would do though - hence I include the convo here in good faith.

Thanks for the advice though and I do appreciate your input and would always read someones response in full personally. Perhaps we are talking at cross purposes or I have misunderstood what you mean in which case I am sorry for the confusion. I will look into those now. Thanks again. P.S - I have contacted the other editor involved in dispute to try and get discussion going again. Best regardsGlaaaastonbury88 (talk) 14:25, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Glaaaastonbury88. In the future, when posting on other people's user talk pages, please look over what you wrote and try to keep the number of edits to other people's talk pages to a minimum, since each edit you make triggers a notification, which quickly gets annoying (see here for what I mean). — k6ka  <span title="Canadian!" style="color:red">🍁 ( Talk ·  Contributions ) 14:54, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

{{u|K6ka}} Hi there, Ah sorry about that! I will take that into consideration in the future and understand completely why that is irritating! Sorry again. (There will be no further edits to this comment I promise!!) Glaaaastonbury88 (talk) 15:14, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 2 August 2020
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Tech News: 2020-32
<section begin="technews-2020-W32"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * All queries to the Wikidata Query Service failed between 17:50 and 17:59 UTC on Thursday 23 July. Some queries failed during a longer period.
 * Interlanguage links were ordered incorrectly for the past few weeks. This problem was also mentioned in Tech News two weeks ago. The problem is now fixed.
 * There is a problem with the global preferences for the "" option. Developers are working on fixing it.
 * A bug in the Wikibase extension had disabled the "move" and "create" types of protection in the main (Gallery) namespace on Wikimedia Commons. New protections could not be added, and existing protections were not enforced, allowing some page moves and page creations that should not have been possible. This has now been fixed.

Changes later this week
 * The video player will change to be simpler and more modern. This week, the current beta feature will become the video player for everyone on most non-Wikipedia wikis. The old player will be removed.
 * Users'  and   pages will now also be loaded on the mobile site. You can read documentation for how to avoid applying styles to the mobile skin.
 * Octicons-tools.svg In the MonoBook skin, the  identifier is now  . This may affect CSS and JS gadgets. Migration instructions can be found in T255953. This was previously mentioned in issue 27.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Bot operators can use Pywikibot to regularly archive discussions. The behavior when the bot uses  to prevent large archives was changed.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from August 4. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from August 5. It will be on all wikis from August 6 (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W32"/> 15:43, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-33
<section begin="technews-2020-W33"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * FileImporter and FileExporter became standard features on all Wikis during the first week of August. They help you transfer files from local wikis to Wikimedia Commons with the original file information and history intact.

Problems
 * The mobile skin displays a message at the bottom of the page about who edited last. This message showed raw wikitext. This has now been fixed. Some messages in Structured Discussions and content translation may still appear as raw wikitext. Developers are working on it.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from August 11. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from August 12. It will be on all wikis from August 13 (calendar).

Future changes
 * All wikis will be read-only for a few minutes on September 1. This is planned between 13:30 and 15:30 UTC. More information will be published in Tech News and will also be posted on individual wikis in the coming weeks.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2020-W33"/> 16:06, 10 August 2020 (UTC)