User talk:Kudpung/Archive Nov 2010

Note
Please do not edit archives as you did here. If you have new information, create a new entry on the correct board. I have reverted the change. ( talk→  BWilkins   ←track ) 11:11, 31 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Don't you  agree that some action  needs to  be taken beyond  my innocent lapse in  knowing  that  archives should not  of course be edited? Fact  is, as I  was linked directly  to  it, and as it  had never been closed, I  actually  failed to  notice that  it was an archived page until  it was too  late. Perhaps you  could do  something  about  it, as it was just  allowed to lapse last  time. --Kudpung (talk) 11:20, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * First, as per the notice when you edit my talkpage, do not use talkback templates there. Second, the reason it got archived is because none of the dozens of admins who monitor ANI felt it required actions.  Third, I will not unilaterally impose something based on the results of #2.  If you feel action needs to be taken because additional problems have resurfaced, make a new report at ANI - reference the original, and provide complete diff's of the newer problems. ( talk→   BWilkins   ←track ) 11:28, 31 October 2010 (UTC)


 * There have been another 19 new pages added in the last  72 hours. There are now close on  500 of these recent entries. A random stab (which nevertheless took over an hour) shows that  many  of them are extremely  poorly  sourced BLP and that further Internet  searches fail to  reveal  sources that  assert  notability. I doubt  that  anyone who  does not  have recourse to  bots, filters, scripts, or AWB, will  spend days listing  all  the diffs as you  suggest. I am trying  to  be helpful by suggesting  that  we try to find another solution.--Kudpung (talk) 00:32, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Update: Already blocked very late last night.--Kudpung (talk) 01:17, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you
Hello. Thank you for your message relating to my article placed on Wikipedia. I am still trying to get to grips with the whole system and how to correctly use the site. I will endeavour to reference any further article I add so that the inclusions I make are considered legitimate. Thank you again for your message and I will probably be in touch when I encounter another problem. Thanks again (Rain391 (talk) 14:26, 31 October 2010 (UTC)) l
 * Don't worry. It  hasn't been listed for deletion, but  you  quickly  need to  ais is to  take a look  at  other articles about small places such  as for example Sherrard's Green, open them in  editing  mode and see how they  have been put  together (don't  change anything  in  there though!). --Kudpung (talk) 15:04, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Emma Groves
Hi. Could you take a look at this so you can get an idea what is going on. I have added your talkpage to my watchlist. Might I suggest you add the Groves article to yours because the propagandizing and editorializing are nowhere near done yet. I am so tired of being outnumbered and marginalized. To have a disinterested editor with at least an open mind monitoring the page's editing would be in keeping with Wikipedia's mission to be an encyclopaedia, not a site where propagandists can work unchecked by manipulating and bullying the system. You have that discretion under WP:IAR. Just compare my edits with those of the editor who immediately gutted them. Thanks. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 14:37, 31 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi. I've just left a new comment there already. I have on my watchlist every single page I have ever visited or edited in this encyclopedia, but I think it's now over to you guys. I don't see my rôle as a teacher invigilating an exam, and I think the WP:EAR department has done what it can. If there are serious breaches in  content or behaviour policy, as a very last resort the editors concerned will have to make a list of diffs and a perfectly documented rationale and take it to the appropriate dispute resolution board. I hope you'll be able to resolve your differences and collaborate together without such drastic recourse. Avoidance of heated language goes a huge way in getting things sorted out.--Kudpung (talk) 14:54, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

I am assuming you may be asleep as according to this page it is 1:56 AM right now where you live. I won't expect a response then until your convenience. I just wanted to let you know I responded to the other editor and would like to get back to editing the Groves page, but am afraid to do so now for fear of violating WP:3RR. I know there are exceptions to 3RR (like WP:IAR, et al) but I can't and won't risk being blocked, so when do you think I can start re-editing/fixing the Groves page? Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 19:02, 31 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I received a response from the editor with whom I have been in this dispute who states that the Emma Groves article is subject to (see "Community restrictions")."'All articles related to The Troubles, defined as: any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland falls under WP:1RR (one revert per editor per article per day). When in doubt, assume it is related. Clear vandalism, or edits by anonymous IP editors, may be reverted without penalty Editors who violate this 1RR restriction may be blocked without warning by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense. If you are a new editor, or an editor unfamiliar with the situation, please follow the guidelines laid out in the above link. If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it on this talk page first.'"


 * I see I was right all along to contact you. Can you tell me how to proceed under WP:1RR when you have the chance. I have never been in this situation. I mean I understand one edit per 24 hours, but now that this other editor has the article as he/she wants, the onus would be on me to make changes. Then he/she would re-edit, and so on, a kind of ridiculous two step, barring the entry of any third persons, which seems unlikely, as none came forward for three years (since 2007), as you know. So editing the Groves page will be like a Wile E. Coyote/Roadrunner cartoon, or maybe Tom and Jerry. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 20:40, 31 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, I'm aware of the 1rr for NI  related issues. In  clear cases of POV pushing or systematic slow vandalism, the period  does not  have to  be 24 hours -  the revert  rule could be applied even if it  concerns 1 rev a month. It  needs, however,  to  be exceptionally well proven, and that  could take months. Remember that Rome was not built in  a day, and we have plenty  of other editing  tasks  that  need the help  of skilled Wikipedians. At all costs, avoid falling  foul of either the 1rr or 3rr rules, blocking is almost  always the admin's reactions and is almost  instantaneous. I have it on  my  watch list  and if I  have time I  might  even draft  a suggested neutral replacement  article; as I  mentioned before, there are plenty  of possiblilities for recycling  the surplus material.--Kudpung (talk) 00:38, 1 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for listening and for your expertise. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 13:28, 1 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Just wanted to let you know of a funny coincidence. I was checking out the Brenda Cowling page to see if anything had been sorted out (she's still not dead apparently) and on the talk page I noticed we had responded consecutively, twice! Odd case that, some "relative" of hers insists she died, but no death notice in any reliable publication. Just wanted to share. Regards. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 22:14, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

ANI Notice regarding User:Kudpung99
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. —  Spike Toronto  17:51, 31 October 2010 (UTC)


 *  UPDATE :   Blocked as a sockpuppet of User:Shyguy1991. —  Spike  Toronto  18:17, 31 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Many thanks Spike, for your perspicacity  and rapid action. --Kudpung (talk) 01:47, 1 November 2010 (UTC)


 * You’re welcome. I think the real heroes are User:EurekaLott for noticing the similarity to edits by blocked editor User:Shyguy1991 and User:MuZemike for doing the CheckUser, confirming that it was a sock, and saving me the hassle of filing at SPI. Unfortunately, there are well over 200 edits by Kudpung99 that have to be gone through! I’m glad no one will confuse the two of you anymore. —  Spike Toronto  04:36, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Translation of Mindxmedia:
"Mindxmedia is a modern media company, we offer a wide range of services, traditional printed material production, to help promote accession by a variety of products and services. With us you can order what you need among professional and promotional clothing, roll-ups, promotional pens and printed materials. We sell everything you can think of putting pressure on and then some, there are no limits to how creative we can be. We are your connection to various businesses such as public relations firms, advertising agencies, printers, professional and business profile, promotional gifts and giveaways suppliers. All for the convenience of our customers, you have problems, please contact us and we will solve it with you." Half Shadow  07:33, 1 November 2010 (UTC)


 * You're too late -  I've already  done it and put  on  the article tp ;)--Kudpung (talk) 07:35, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Crap. I thought I got there first. Half  Shadow  07:35, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * :)--Kudpung (talk) 07:37, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

What keeps mankind alive?
Mack the Knife has it's own page so why not this song? It's a Left-wing song and I am merely quoting it's lyrics. I made no statement as to whether it's ideas were good or bad so I don't see I can be expressing a POV.  Smokey TheCat  08:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)


 * See WP:OTHERSTUFF. There is not much  point  in  creating stubs when articles that  can  accomodate them  already  exist. The main  problem however is the unsourced WP:POV -  wherever it  comes from, you  are responsible for reproducing  it. The lack  of source  alone is enough  to  have this sub  deleted. I'm  suggesting  that  if  it  is an intersting  piece of information connected with  the Drei Groschen Oper that  is worth  mentioning  at  all, the,n it  should be in  its associated article. I'll  probably merge and redirect  more if  I  find it,  or spin off a standalone article about  the songs from  the opera. I'm  happy  to  explain  more if you  like. --Kudpung (talk) 09:01, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

re:Claudia Lindsey
Hi Kudpung. Respectfully I disagree with your philosophy towards stubs. You may want to familiarize yourself with Stub for perhaps a more balanced view. Also I found your comments condescending, particularly since I've contributed to several feature articles (most recently Tosca and L'Orfeo) and good articles at wikipedia, have been editing on here for years, and have created hundreds of articles (some recent examples of more extensive articles being Mac Morgan and Lauren Flanigan). Further, I had two refs and the article clearly meets the requirement at WP:Music and WP:Creative, so I'm not really sure why you were harping on references and notability. I, and many other editors, occassionally create basic stubs knowing full well that we won't take the article beyond that level. That is a good thing. For example on October 22 I created this stub of Marie Sasse which another editor has turned into this current version which is much improved. He had never heard of the singer until I created the stub and it inspired him to make a beautiful article. Best.4meter4 (talk) 12:41, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

RE:Wisbech Grammar School
Haha, oh, ok! I think the hint might perhaps have been a bit too subtle for that early in the morning! Actually, I might just do that, then. I'm going in to meet up with one of my old school masters later this week to have a look through their archives, so hopefully might be able to expand it a bit further later. Rob (talk) 11:21, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * But will they be valid third party accessible reliable sources? ( talk→  BWilkins   ←track ) 11:27, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I was mainly going to have a look at a 1939 published history of the school which is publically available (albeit mainly in the Wisbech area) and to take a few more up-to-date pictures. Rob (talk) 11:48, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads up. I think I'd just pressed 2 instead of " Rob (talk) 10:34, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

It's raining thanks spam!

 * Please pardon the intrusion. This tin of thanks spam is offered to everyone who commented or !voted (Support, Oppose or Neutral) on my recent RfA. I appreciate the fact that you care enough about the encyclopedia and its community to participate in this forum.
 * There are a host of processes that further need community support, including content review (WP:GAN, WP:PR, WP:FAC, and WP:FAR). You can also consider becoming a Wikipedia Ambassador. If you have the requisite experience and knowledge, consider running for admin yourself!
 * If you have any further comments, input or questions, please do feel free to drop a line to me on my talk page. I am open to all discussion. Thanks &bull; Ling.Nut (talk) 02:25, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Tks for your kind words on my talk page. Cheers! &bull; Ling.Nut (talk) 08:22, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Confuse
I'm very confuse right now. Because there a lot of rules.

Signed by Jean-Carlo Salinas —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jean-Carlo Salinas (talk • contribs) 12:20, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

andrea mohr
Hello, you have edited the article of Andrea Mohr. What is the difference to her article and the one of her co-offender Andrew Fraser? Thank you, best wishes Christine 0099 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.116.212.230 (talk) 13:34, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi. Links please, and sign your posts (see page top). Cheers, --Kudpung (talk) 13:38, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * OK: The Mohr article had no referenced sources that convinced us that  the article is important  enough (notable) for an entry in an encyclopedia. The Fraser seems to possibly  fulfill these requirements. I did not contribute to either of them. Hope this helps. You are of course welcome to improve either or both of these articles, don't hesitate to ask if you would like help with the editing tools. Regards, --Kudpung (talk) 13:48, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hallo, I have added a link and done some changes. I hope this meets your approval. Thank you, all the best (hope the signature works, pardon me)Christine0099 (talk) 09:08, 4 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi, you're getting there. Note that  there is a difference between References and External links. References are the most  important, they  tell  the reader that  you  didn't  make up what  you  have written, and tell  us that  the subject  is important  enough  to  have an article in  this encyclopedia. There are a lot of strict  rules about  what  sources can be used. If you  can read German, you'll  find a similar set of rules in  the German  Wikipedia. If you  prefer English, you  should start  at  WP:RS; WP:V; and WP:CITE. External  links are for linking  to  any  supplementary.  information that  is relevant  to  the subject  and might  provide additional  background information. Do  take a moment  to  follow the advice in the link  I  posted on  your  talk  page. Happy  editing!--Kudpung (talk) 09:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hallo Kupdung, once again I need your help, please. I have done a mistake. I did a few changes on the article andrea mohr but I forgot to log in so it shows now my IP adresse. I dont want that. How can I change it? Thank you so much for all your kind help Christine0099 (talk) 10:48, 6 November 2010 (UTC)]]


 * Hi Chrisine. There's nothing you  can do  about  your IP  edit  now. Just  remember to  log in  every  time in  the future. On  the login  box, if your check "Remember me for 30 days", you'll automatically  be logged in. However, until  you  are absolutely  sure, always check  at  the top  of the page to  see if you are really  logged in. Do  continue to  develop your article -  already  some other editors are making  minor corrections for you. However, please go  to  your  talk  page and follow all  the links I  gave you  for the instructions  how to  edit  pages, how to  make edit summaries, and how to  sign  your name on  talk  pages. Take care, and happy  editing!--Kudpung (talk) 11:10, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Christine, if you meant the only edit from today, I believe that I have taken care of it - please do be cautious in the future. ( talk→  BWilkins   ←track ) 11:11, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you very much both of you. I like it here on Wikipedia everyone is very polite, helpful and attentiv that is really great working with you all. Yes Kudpunk I found the links you have mailed me very helpful, just not been through all yet but I will. Wishing you both a lovely weekend Christine0099 (talk) 13:06, 6 November 2010 (UTC) ]]

Kudpung
Hey bro thanks for the tips. Please feel free to contact me if you need any help with anything, and have a nice day! Bunkerdiver (talk) 14:39, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Talkback
I have responded to your question and have asked for your help on an unrelated matter. Thanks. -- Diannaa (Talk) 16:34, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Please be more careful
Please be more careful when removing references. The cite in the Shirley Love article wasn't to another wikipedia article but to a print reference. Yes, wikipedia does have an article on that print reference, but the citation was to the actual reference source and not the wiki page. Thank you.4meter4 (talk) 08:42, 4 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Please refrain from  disruptive editing  while other editors are clearing  up  the mess your friends have made.--Kudpung (talk) 08:45, 4 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Please read WP:AGF and WP:Civil. Cheers.4meter4 (talk) 08:49, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Cleaning up and referencing unsourced opera BLPs
Hi Kudpung, I appreciate your concern about these articles and possible deficiences in referencing. If you are going to PROD them, I'd really appreciate it if you could notify WikiProject Opera on our talk page, so they don't slip under the radar and your concerns can be addressed. We don't have every single singer on our individual watchlists and unfortunately, User:ArticleAlertbot, which we had subscribed to, is no longer functioning. If you'd like to discuss your concerns further with other editors who regularly work in this area and have access to specialised publications, please don't hesitate to visit the project's talk page the project's talk page. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 09:38, 4 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi Voc. Please start a new section  with  new messages. You  can  be sure that  clean up  operations like this, that  have taken ten hours today, are the least inspiring  of all the work  I  do  on  Wikipedia, especially  when it  concerns opera. I am  most certainly  not  a deletionist  and much  of the time is spent  copy editing, removing red-herring  references, deleting  passages of blatant  copyvio, and providing  new, accurate references. PROD is absolutely  a last  resort and affects probably  less than 1%. Today's effort  is a systematic alphabetical  trip  through  the pages in Category:United States opera singer stubs. I personally  feel it would be more productive  if people from  your Opera project  could take time out  from  mass producing  these stubs, to aim  for some serious quality before the next  bot  drive to  delete all the poorly  referenced BLPs. If I  can do  it, so  can they -  we all have access to  the same sources:) Cheers.--Kudpung (talk) 10:14, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I thought I was commenting under the same topic, but never mind.;-) I have concerns about mass-stub creation with minimal referencing by 4meter4 as well. However, I wish you wouldn't tar the the whole project with that brush. Many of the articles that you've been tagging, weren't created by members of our project at all. The vast majority of us create well-referenced articles for singers, composers etc. that are clearly notable or spend our time expanding clearly notable stubs to viable articles, as I recently did to this, which became this. I'm not asking you to reference them yourself, but as I explained before, we can't address the problems and rescue a PROD if we don't know about it. Many of us have access to the online editions of the Grove and OUP publications, specialist news archives, hardcopy reference books etc. I would appreciate if you could copy any prod warnings for those that you are prodding to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera (apart from those created by 4meter4, who will get the warning anyway). After all, you have to warn creators and significant contributors anyway, so why not the OP too? That's all I'm asking. But if you don't want to, that's OK. Voceditenore (talk) 10:45, 4 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi. I'm not  unaware that  your particular  project is comprised almost  exclusively  of bios. One of the projects  I  work  closely  with is that  of BLP and helping  to develop and  implement  policy  across the entire board. What  I'm  doing today Voc, rather than inflating  my  ego  by mass producing poorly  sourced stubs, is a totally  boring, very thankless gnome  task. I'm  certainly  not  tarring  any one with brushes, but  I  would be hounded for tendentious editing  if I  were to  concentrate only  on  the disruptive work  of one editor. You  can only  address the problem  stubs if someone flags them  to  bring  them to  your attention. I'm  not  a member of your project, and I  am not  really  motivated into  making  myself more work by  looking  up  the creator of each  article I  put  a  tag on to  see if he/she is. Many  user  names are obviously  familiar to  me and if they  do  not  ring  warning  bells I  accord them all the greatest  respect and assume their edits, however poor, to  be in  GF. I  would hesitate before making  a mountain  out  of a molehill out of  the isolated two  or three PRODS that were very  special  cases which  I  could even have CSD if I  had wanted. Nobody  owns articles, not  even the projects that  police them. I  know all  about  projects, I  founded  and run  one, and fortunately  it's got  absolutely  nothing  remotely to  do  with  opera, and I'm  personally  most  welcoming  when a non member come in  and lends a hand  :o) --Kudpung (talk) 12:01, 4 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Of course no project owns articles, but we can help source them if we are aware of the problem, and I personally appreciate what you are doing. I wasn't asking for notification of every maintenance/reimprove tag, and we have a bot that informs us of completely unsourced opera BLPs which I check daily. I was only asking for PROD notification, but I won't bring it up again. Voceditenore (talk) 12:38, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Martha Lipton year of birth missing?
Why did the Category:Year of birth missing (living people) to Martha Lipton's article? If it was a mistake, I suggest you revert your edit. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:05, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * See talk page header.--Kudpung (talk) 14:39, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah right
You people got quite some nerve. So you want to discuss with me the reason why I keep a more Germanic tone to my English translations? As you can see, that is obviously not a lack of what you would consider "proper knowledge". Spare me, please. You're free to be "copyediting" my translations as much as you like, but if I were you I would bother showing some gratitude for the work. --Fhmann (talk) 02:31, 5 November 2010 (UTC)s
 * Hi Fehmann. Please stay calm. We (and I particularly) welcome all  contributions on  Germany  related subjects. Apart from a genuine friendly offer of help, there were no suggestions whatsoever of the kind you are making. --Kudpung (talk) 02:53, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Patrick Bordeleau
Thank you for translating the page for me, I greatly appreciate it. Weatherman05071 (talk) 19:48, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Twinkle again
Could you have a look at what happened with Mohammed El-hadhiri for me, please? I used Twinkle for sending it to AfD and watched carefully while it rolled though the process. This time it seems to have missed adding the AfD template to the article page, although it has created the AfD page and listed it on today's AfD log. Any idea what's going wrong? Ooops - just realised that you are probably asleep right now, so I'll add the article template manually for now.--Plad2 (talk) 19:38, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Hmm. Nominating Halimzai (politician) for AfD also using Twinkle seems to have completed all the relevant steps without problems (or at least none that I can see). I have a couple more to do from the BLP Rescue Project current month (Dec 2008) so I think I will continue and see what happens.--Plad2 (talk) 20:07, 7 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi Philippa. yes, I fell  asleep  at  my  desk  and didn't  change the status message at  the top  of the page. I just  wanted to reassure you that I've now been looking  at this for nearly  an  hour and I  'll get back  to  you  in  a few moments. Watch this space ;) --Kudpung (talk) 23:46, 7 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Right here we go. First let me thank  you for the commitment  you  have shown to  the problem  of unsourced BLPs. This kind of work among  the mouldy  old files festering  in  the basement  of BLP  is a thankless task like much  of the housekeeping  that  has to  be done. :BLP  backlogs are a monumental  task. Many new unsourced or poorly  sourced pages get  added every  day without  being  tagged, simply due  fall  off the 30-cliff, unpatrolled at  WP:New Page Patrol, because less experienced patrollers who  like to  rack up their edit count, prefer the low hanging  fruit at  the front  of the list  of daily  new arrivals.
 * I hope WP:Twinkle is working alright  for you  now -  it should do  if you  are using  the the most  recent  version  of a compatible browser. It  works fine for me in  both  Safari (5.0.2)and FireFox (3.6.12) on  Mac OS 10.6.4. If you  are going  to  AfD a lot articles, you  can also  consider putting  the WP:DELSORT script by User:John Vandenberg/Deletion sorting tool into  your User:Plad2/monobook.js (or vector.js, depending  on  which  Wikipedia skin  you  use). Many  people don't  bother even registering  their AfDs on  the relevant  delsort pages, but   it does provide added exposure to  the AfD, and  vastly  increases the likelihood that people will  come and comment - in  my  opinion, AfD is as much  about  rescuing  articles as getting  them  deleted. As you  have seen in  the past, it often needs an AfD simply  to  galvanise people into  action.


 * I see you have also  been given some advice at BKLP Rescue. The answer you  got is of course basically correct, but  perhaps it did not  address the the finer points where many articles need to  be considered individually. I sometimes spend as much  as an hour trying  to  find sources, but  finally  still  have to choose on  of the methods of deletion. Assuming  that one has done all  the required research WP:BEFORE applying  AfD template (although  to  go  by  some of the uncivil  comment I  get  on  my  AfD noms, anyone would believe I'm  a drive-by  deletionist!), a WP:PROD might  indeed be the best  and most  economical solution. If  after doing  WP:BEFORE you  are reasonably sure that no other editors will  be able to  come up  with  sustainable reasons for disputing  the PROD, then by  all  means PROD it. It saves tying  up  editor time on  AfD, and most  importantly, it  prevents a really  bad or non  notable article from  being  kept by  default just  because there is insufficient  response at AfD. If nobody  comes along  to  contest a PROD, the article quietly  gets removed without  a fuss after 7 days. Thus, the general route to  deletion (depending  on  the criteria of course) is CSD --> PROD/BLPPROD --> AfD --> WP:DRV (see special  note at  DRV concerning  stubs).
 * You'll see now, that the two  examples you  have cited above, are in fact  first  class candidates for PROD rather than AfD: they've been languishing  unresolved for a long time -  years in  some case - in  the uBLP category, your research  for  on and offline sources has come up  with  nothing (and as a professional  reader/editor/publisher, you understand this more than most  of us), and the page hits are low (probably  only  search  engine crawlers), and very  few edits by  other contributors except for the stubbers, categorisers, AWBers, and housekeeping  bots, and the article creator has probably  contributed very  little else to  the encyclopedia.


 * I hope all this helps and that  you  didn't  think  it was TLDR. You  probably  kow most  of it  anyway, but  it  will  be reassurin  for you  to  know from  another editor  that  you  are on  the right  track, and you  can even use some of it  for giving  advice to  others. If you  need any  more ideas or suggestions, don't  hesitate to  shout - VFR only  I'm  afraid ;) Regards, --Kudpung (talk) 01:10, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Very helpful. You're correct in thinking that I was a bit puzzled by the advice I got re PROD vs. AFD.  I had previously thought that PROD should be the first step but following J04N's advice (and the edit summary I had from the editor removing the PROD), it seemed that I had got that wrong.  I will go back to PROD first and not mind if they get removed.  It's a bit galling when one has spent a serious amount of time fruitlessly searching for anything which might count as an RS, to have that research dismissed in a matter of seconds.  But hey, I know that's how it works here. And thanks also for the reminder about the Delsort script.--Plad2 (talk) 06:54, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The discussion on PROD vs AfD has continued here with some different viewpoints being expressed. I mention just in case you want to take a look. I don't personally see any need to prolong the discussion. I think I've got enough from what's been said so far to arrive at a balance on the decision whether to PROD or send to AfD (which kinda boils down to "it depends..."), so I'm OK with that. Interestingly enough the article with which I started this section Mohammed El-hadhiri now appears to be moving to a "Keep" as another editor spotted an alternate spelling of the subject's name on the list of Pan-African delegates (which I feel I possibly should have seen as the transliteration of Arabic names can vary enormously).--Plad2 (talk) 07:26, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Phil Bridger is perfectly correct in his literal interpretation of the guideline. That is why a correctly PRODed article will slip away uncontested after seven days. I think it's always best not  to  hint  at  any  'possibles' in  the wording  of a PROD rationale. After all, the PROD idea is for the deletion  to  be taken  for  granted. Doing AfD, especially for a ten-word stub that nobody has taken any interest in for two years, is, IMHO,  counterproductive considering the effort required, and even more so if its unsourced presence is innocuous. The project  really needs to consider focusing its priorities on  the articles that  have greater quantities of unsourced content, and where keeping  them could clearly  be a net  benefit to  the encyclopedia. Problem is,  with  clean up  campaigns like these, people earn their barnstars on  quantity  (of articles) rather than on  quality,  as opposed to  the WP:GOCE campaigns that  award for word count. As you  say, it kinda boils down to "it depends...", so  don't  hesitate to ask  me again any  time you want  another opinion. Naturally  I  can't  promise to  always be right, but  I  do  have a way  at looking  at  the grey between the black and white aspects  of many  of our policies - nothing  is written in  stone.  See for example the Charles Warnken discussion lower down on this page, where an editor questions why I declined his WP:CSD. --Kudpung (talk) 23:12, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * As ever, very helpful, thank you. I really do appreciate your views on this. My personal criteria for AfD now includes people whose name are a transliteration from a non-Roman language (assuming that there is some assertion of notability) as I've now seen three found sources by someone with better knowledge of the language searching for a different version of the name.  I agree with your point about the rather skewed focus of the drive to source all UBLPs.  There is no doubt that there are much larger issues lurking below the surface of this whole initiative but I still think it is worth doing this basic pass through the whole list as we are weeding out a number of hoaxes, copyvios, spam, very occasional attack pages (which is what got the debate started in the first place), controversial text and some non-notables along the way.  Every single one of those articles will have had a pair of eyes on it by the time we finish, which is no bad thing. The fact that what's left will be a much larger body with "refimprove" tags will have to be addressed, of course.  I have worries about determining value by word count. Me, I've got to the point where I seriously doubt the point of having literally hundreds of two line stubs on Thai premier league (2004 season) footballers who technically meet WP:ATH but are difficult to source (that's a topic for the folks over at the Football Project) but I've also found more worthwhile (IMO) stubs which I have enjoyed expanding and referencing.--Plad2 (talk) 07:23, 15 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Of course the work is absolutely  necessary - as you  say, it  serves to  weed out the really  bad stuff, while the innocuous 10-word stubs are not taking  up  any  serious server space.  I  come across enough  pages at random to  keep  me busy while I'm on  other stuff, so  I  know what  you  guys are up  against. I'm still trying  to  drum  up  support for some experienced New Page Patrollers who  are prepared to  work  in  that difficult  area at  the bottom  of the NP list. Probably  70-80% of new articles are now BLP and 200 - 300 new pages a day just  pass untagged, unreferenced and unstubbed after 30 days  until  a project like yours stumbles on them after a bot run. The sports ones are the hardest because no one outside the fans of the various ball games even knows if the leagues are notable, let  alone the player! And, there are also nearly 2,000 poorly referenced BLP  stubs out there that  were mass produced earlier this year by a sock-master that  also need to be processed, so it's also imperative to  check  the article histories and the creators' contribs.  So if you  have any ideas, please keep  them coming. First  on  the agenda is to  revamp  the BLPPROD in  a couple of months to ban/blacklist directories, job  agencies, blogs, and social nw sites from  being used to  circumvent it. This loophole was left largely undiscussed in  the pressure to  get  the BLPPROD finally up  and running. It would certainly reduce the load for the  uBLP  clearing houses in  the future.--Kudpung (talk) 09:51, 15 November 2010 (UTC) BTW: I've addressed the children's book  issue below.


 * Thanks for this (and for the note below). It does seem to me that the WP:ATH guidelines could do with tightening up to provide more clarity on the notability (or otherwise) of the one/two season player stubs (even when they are playing at the highest national level). The other problem, as you say, is that there are just not enough people with the time, enthusiasm and experience to do the gnomish work. And there's a lot to learn.  I seem to have over 4K edits in my contribs list (mostly in the children's literature and BLP areas) and I am still learning new stuff every time I log on.  I can't help feeling that if newbie editors could be firmly encouraged to go through a training program (gaining barnstars for mastering new techniques) we might see a drop in the number of basic mistakes and time involved in putting those right. I get the impression that very few people respond to the Welcome messages (certainly no-one has ever asked me for help - but then, I don't think I've been back to see how they were getting on) and I wonder whether there is something could be done there.  Anyway, stuff to ponder on.--Plad2 (talk) 07:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Response to your query
Here's the response to your query. I'll do a bit of tweaking during the week and I think that should lay the concern to rest.--Plad2 (talk) 06:26, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Ho hum. I see that a CCI has been opened re this user. Perhaps I was wrong. (I also haven't had the time to do the fixing I had in mind). I have informed MRG, who opened the CCI, of the possible issue re Ruth K. MacDonald.--Plad2 (talk) 22:59, 16 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I think you've done absolutely  the right  thing. Seems it was only  the tip  of the iceberg. I  originally  asked for your help  because you  are a publisher of children' books, and I  thought  it  wise also  to  have a more discrete way  of addressing  the problem  in  view of the editor's large number of articles, GA, FA, and DTK. The saddset thing is her apparent lack  of concern for all  the mopping  up  that  now has to  be done. Anyway, it goes to show we just  can't be too careful, especially  in  the light  of the very  recent huge issue that  forced one of our top  bureaucrats to  excercise a WP:RTV. Thanks for all  you  have done.  BTW, there's another answer to  the Twinkle thread above. --Kudpung (talk) 04:20, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * And it seems it's got a whole lot bigger. I'll be a bit more suspicious next time. It seems your antennae for something dodgy were spot on.--Plad2 (talk) 21:44, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Nomination of Pqcell for deletion
A discussion has begun about whether the article Pqcell, which you created or to which you contributed, should be deleted. While contributions are welcome, an article may be deleted if it is inconsistent with Wikipedia policies and guidelines for inclusion, explained in the deletion policy.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Pqcell until a consensus is reached, and you are welcome to contribute to the discussion.

You may edit the article during the discussion, including to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:27, 10 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I originally PRODed this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pqcell&action=historysubmit&diff=394166515&oldid=394165475 --Kudpung (talk) 20:07, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Incomplete Articles
You said that, I have created some incomplete articles. Actually, those are some important articles. So, I wanted to start those. But, people can contribute there. And, I hope, soon those will be complete articles. thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mailmurshed (talk • contribs) 20:03, 13 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry Mailmurshed, but almost every one of the articles you  write gets deleted.  Now please stop or you  will  be blocked again from  editing  the encyclopedia.--Kudpung (talk) 20:10, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Darren Ross protection
Hi, Kudpung! Thanks for the nice note. I already salted the title, but if you'd like me to salt more, please let me know. Thanks again. :) --PMDrive1061 (talk) 03:08, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Caroline Cave
Y'know, sometimes there's a difference between sites where you can get information while you're starting an article (like IMDb) and sites that you can actually use in the article as references (like newspaper articles)...so sometimes you gotta give a guy more than five minutes to actually hunt down better sources, eh? (*grin*) Bearcat (talk) 05:57, 14 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Like I said, I didn't realise it was you. Workin' overtime on  NPP, there's so much rubbish  coming  in  today. Think  I'll  take a break and go  get a cuppa tea ;)--Kudpung (talk) 06:15, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Charles Warnken
You said, "Generally, academics and PhD members of faculty are considered notable," concerning my speedy-delete tag of Charles Warnken. Could you please cite Wikipedia policy or precedence that supports your claim? Frankly, I think you are wrong. There are plenty of academics and/or Ph. D.'s that are not necessarily notable. Checking over WP:ACADEMIC, I do not see how Dr. Warnken meets any of the nine criteria. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 20:39, 14 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I assumed that as the CSD tag had been applied with in 13 minutes of the new article being posted, that the CSD was based on the rather unusual wording of the lead, and the paucity of references - both which I improved, and thereby creating sufficient doubt as to the article being a case for immediate deletion. Before doing a CSD, I  feel  that  WP:BEFORE  is essential. (On Labor Day 2007 I founded the Wikipedia Intensive Care Unit. It's a place to "heal" articles about subjects that are probably notable, but the article themselves face imminent deletion for other reasons.)
 * WP:ACADEMIC goes on to clearly explain how exceptions to the nine points might be interpreted.Professors (in the American sense of the word) tend to be kept and deleted in about equal numbers. Generally, tenured professors at major research institutions and top liberal-arts colleges tend to be kept, while assistant professors without major awards are deleted.(AfD/Co#Ed). With academics especially, many editors tend to err on the side of caution at CSD (although  less perhaps with possible non notable actors, rock musicians, and sports people, for example), and prefer  to  place either an appropriate maintenance tag on  the article, or if  deletion is really  required, a PROD. It  may  have happened in  the past  that  a Nobel Prize winner has been deleted simply  because it was not  mentioned in  the stub. That  means if a new article is not blatant advertising, a personal attack, a copyright violation, or an obvious hoax, the systems of PROD, BLPPROD, provide the creator with  time to  improve the article or justify  its cause for existence, while  AfD at least provide the article with a chance to defend itself and be judged by  a consensus of the community.


 * I have absolutely no concerns whatsoever with the decision to take it to AfD, where after further investigation, I might even !vote in favour of its deletion.--Kudpung (talk) 21:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Your sources helped, but only perhaps to get it out of speedy territory. I also tend to give articles about academics a little more leeway, but this one appeared to be non-notable on its face, and I still don't think he's notable, hence the AfD. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 03:00, 15 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi RK. I'm glad if my opinion helped in  some way - but it was of course only an opinion. All our decisions are a fine balancing act between what  we feel, what  we know, the policies & guidelines, and the enigmatic Wikipedia 'consensus'. In the face of the less expert but  necessary work by some of our enthusiastic but less experienced/younger patrollers, you  can understand  why I initially queried your CSD. Keep  up  the good work. Cheers.--Kudpung (talk) 05:39, 15 November 2010 (UTC)


 * And thank you for the barnstar! - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 06:02, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Question
Shockingly, I still don't know this, but what do I do in case I'm in an edit war? I'm not sure, but I may be at or over WP:3RR without realising it on Malaysia. Thanks, Chipmunkdavis (talk) 09:47, 15 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the late response, somehow I  missed your post  and my  talk  page seems to  be getting  quite busy  thee days. I've checked out  the Malaysia page history and I  don't  think there is any  current danger of you  getting  into  trouble. If there was, there have been no  warnings AFAICS on  your tp so  the filters didn't  pick  it up. Anyway, you  know what  the 3RR rule is, and the best  way  to  avoid an edit  war is to  take a back  seat  however hard it  may  seem. If you  a re absolutely  sure that  you  a re in  the right, let things blow over first, then if other editors are really  being  disruptive, let them  cast  the first  stones,  leave a standard template warning  on  their tp,  and if they  still persist, take the matter to  the appropriate notice board complete with  rationale and a list of diffs. On  the present  issue, there seems to  be a reasonably  calm  discussion  on  the article tp,  and you  appear to  have the support of User:Bejinhan. Cheers, --Kudpung (talk) 05:34, 17 November 2010 (UTC)


 * It definitely looks busy. I think I've involved myself quite deeply in the Malaysia article, luckily lately I've been done with most edits there so I've been able to regain some perspective. There's a whole long-term edit war going on right now throughout a lot of Malaysian articles, will be interesting to see how that pans out. Thanks, I appreciate the guidance and clarification, Chipmunkdavis (talk) 17:32, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Peter Jarrette Artist/Author/Multi Media
Hi Kudpung, thanks for looking at my efforts. The reams of interviews on the subject Peter Jarrette exist in American papers from the 70's and 80's which I too cannot access print on however I have read these tears sheets. Along with NYC features in Art Direction magazine (listed) and scores of interviews in Trinidad Press form the 70's 80's and 90's...the last blitz being again mid 90's. How can I cite these beyond perhaps the names of the published mag/news titles if these all appeared before the times of google and wikipedia...obviously both new formats that have yet to trawl backwards in time to include some really outstanding types from art and media worlds etc? May I just say that I detect a negative note in the responses of some of your editors as regards my efforts and those of others that seem to be slated for their subject choices that for whatever reason are not of interest to the Sci-Fi pundits and middle aged niche interest individuals who seem to be prevalent here? No offence intended....simply my own opinion as per face value and profile reading thus far. Also to suggest that I am my subjects alter ego? How does one arrive at this? The Google entries, if you care to spend time researching this chap, perhaps by archives of the magazines that you can access, are articles written and published by others on him in legit and heavily circulated, established and respected magazines. I am simply trying to write an article on a person and like you I am trying to find my way into his past works and examples but if they have not been filed online say like his illustrations for Mademoiselle Magazine in the early 80's then what would you suggest I or someone else do? Like wise citing the existence of his grandparent who I have never met and I believe even the subject has never met? So, what is Wikipedia then? Is it a special interest source for a closed society of individuals who share harsh and dismissive views of things they do not know or care to consider? I understood there was an etiquette policy in place but with the feedback I have recieved from one or two more pointed editors it seems that this may not be the case in fact. I will continue to experience this site to my aim as long as permitted and thanks again for your words. They have been very discouraging and ungenerous however. --Eggs Aldo (talk) 18:49, 15 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi Eggs Aldo. Please read carefully the message in my talk page header and follow any links, then go to the talk page of your draft article where any discussion belongs, and where I will shortly be leaving a comment. Thanks.--Kudpung (talk) 19:05, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

RfA Time?
Hi Kudpung. I'm not really familiar with you personally, only with your contributions and the fact that you're around a lot. Have you considered an RfA recently? You seem rather sensible, have great content contributions, and seem like the kind of editor that's passing RfA with flying colors nowadays. I don't know if you have a nom in mind, but you should definitely consider it!  ceran  thor 01:35, 16 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi Ceranthor. Thanks for the kind words. However,  there seems to  be a stigma attached to  self-noms, and they all  seem  to  want  people who  will  work on  copyright  issues and AfD  closures, and those  are not  the areas I'm  most  familiar with. Besides which, because I  use Mac, I  can't  use several  of the useful  scripts. i'm  thinking  it  over though :) --Kudpung (talk) 02:38, 17 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Alright, send me an email when you feel comfortable. I'm sure I can recommend a nom, or even be one.  ceran  thor 23:34, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Kennedy mmbando
Hi Exciral. I'm surprised you put a G11 on this. I would have thought a A7 if it needs a speedy, but it's really a classic example for a BLPPROD unless I have missed something. Anyway, it's entirely up to you :) --Kudpung (talk) 12:01, 16 November 2010 (UTC)


 * You are entirely right that this should have been an A7 - i actually intended to tag it as such, but in the process i got distracted and placed a G11 instead of a A7 (So much for the benefits of multiple tabs in a browser :) ). The reason to tag it as an A7 over a BLP prod was due to two facts - It was deleted two times under that criteria already, and nothing in the text or in a search gave any indication that this person would be notable.


 * A BLP prod is a tad different. Instead of being not notable a BLP prod indicated that a text is not, or not correctly sourced. There may actually be a claim to notability in a BLP (A claim is sufficient to pass A7 after all), but unlike other article's an unsourced BLP is a no-go. Thus i generally place an A7 on non-notable pages, and a BLP prod on pages that may be notable, but are unsourced (Provided that a quick search doesn't turn up any good sources) Excirial ( Contact me, Contribs ) 18:24, 16 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi Excirial. Thanks. I must  admit I  had forgotten  to  check  the page log :) --Kudpung (talk) 02:40, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Edna Wilma Simons
Hello, I'm new to wikipedia and i'm making this page about edna wilma for a class. I plan on adding a lot more about this person, but we needed to submit a stub about them before the deadline. I was wondering if you could help me make this page work. I'm not trying to give any false information or make a joke of wikipedia. I really want this page to work out, mainly because my grade is dependent on it. I also think that is an icon for our town of missoula and i really feel she deserves her own page, but i understand i need more info. Thank you for your time Cody Jensen —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cody.Jensen5 (talk • contribs) 20:04, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Cody. I never thought  for a moment  that  you  were making  a joke page - the Wilma Theatre is quite famous even outside Missoula, Montana,  and that's why  there is already  a Wikipedia about it. However, while we encourage the creation  of new pages as a class project, I'm very surprised that  your teacher is forcing  students to  make articles for the Wikipedia for their grades,  and setting  them  to  a deadline. Although  Wikipedia is the encyclopedia anyone  can edit, there are lots of rules, policies, and guidelines that have to  be followed, and every  editor should know about  these before even starting  to  put  the stub  on  an article page that  can be viewed by  everybody. If you  are going  to  start  an article as a school  or class project, you  should look  up  these rules first, or ask your teacher to  look  them  up  for you.


 * There are a couple of snags already which  need looking  into:
 * It needs to  be established whether or not  the person  is notable enough for a page in  the encyclopedia. Truly notable people will probably already  have had books written about  them  or there will  be, or have been,extensive newspaper articles about  them,  or they  have been featured in  a TV  documentary. Just  a fleeting  mention in  another article or on  a web site is not  enough. Check out the rules on  this at  WP:NOTABILITY and WP:ENT.
 * Once the notability is established, reliable references must  be provided on  the Wikipedia page. These sources must  prove that  what  is said is true. You  can read about  the kind of sources that  are acceptable in  the guidelines at  WP:RS and WP:V. You  might  need to go to  your city  or county  library or to  the newspaper office archives to  find this stuff -  lots of Wikipedia editors do  it if the right  kind of sources can't  be found on  the Internet.
 * Once those sources have been found and checked for accuracy, the footnotes on the page must  be formatted correctly - WP:CITE will  help  editors understand how to  do  this.
 * If a subject is not  really  important  enough for a stand-alone article in  the encyclopedia, all  is not  lost, because as I  have suggested, it  can be included in  another, very  similar article about  much  the same thing.


 * I'm not  going to  get  the page deleted just  yet, but  bear in  mind that  at  some stage it  is likely  to  be merged to  the Wilma Theatre article. So  Cody, don't  hesitate to  ask  me here for more advice, or even ask  your teacher to  contact  me here for more information. Best  regards, --Kudpung (talk) 01:25, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Zachary J. Collins
I started to add sources to Zachary J. Collins' Wikipedia page. I accidentally hit "save" before citing any sources. The article isn't even half way finished yet, and I apologize. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Politics360 (talk • contribs) 07:47, 17 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi. Please start a new section  for a new discussion  and remember to  sign  your posts. I  have reviewed the article again and I  find that  it unfortunately fails  our criteria for inclusion  on  multiple issues. If references were to  be found according  to  our criteria for (click  this link)reliable sources, it  is not clear from  the article which  category Mr  Collins falls  into, but  he/she certainly  does not  appear to  have accumulated any  notability sufficient  to  pass any Wikipedia inclusion criteria for people. Please click  this link  for more information: WP:BIO. Please also  click  the links in the welcome message on  your talk  page. Thanks.--Kudpung (talk) 08:04, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Kudpung, so you know: user has now twice removed the BLP PROD, and I am losing patience. It is a user's job to know how the place works, and they have been told a few times already now. Drmies (talk) 04:06, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Absolutely. However, I'm not  an admin so  I  can't  do anymore about  it than you. What  you  could do, if you  are as sure as I  am  that  this subject  is not notable, is to  put  a WP:CSD A7 on  it using  the  template, or doing  it  semi-automatically  if you  use Twinkle. If you  do  it  manually, remember to  copy  and paste the warning template (shown on the CSD template) to  the creator's talk  page. If that  CSD gets removed, come back  here and I'll  walk  you  through  the next  step  in  the process.--Kudpung (talk) 04:31, 18 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmm... after saying all  that,  I  see you've already  done the A7. well  done :)--Kudpung (talk) 04:33, 18 November 2010 (UTC) BTW: What  yu  could also  have done would have been to  restore the stubbed version  I  made. I've done it  now :)--Kudpung (talk) 04:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I thought about it, and twice almost did it. What stopped me, I don't really know. I hope this is a red link soon, and then you and I can go back to talking about Bach and the upcoming season in Chamonix. Drmies (talk) 05:18, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, whaddayaknow. Anyway, you'll never guess who's staying at the Grand Hotel des Alpes this winter! Yes, with her American aunt! Drmies (talk) 05:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Question
Hello Kudpung. I was wondering why the article regarding Grasbeck does not have sufficient source, considering "who named it" has been cited. Feel free to change or delete the page. I however think it has sufficient source since all it indicates is his name, date of birth, and his contribution. Cheers! Dr. Persi (talk) 08:47, 19 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi. One source that just  mentions a person's name does not meet our criteria for notability.  We  need several  sources, generally  ones that  are articles in  mainstraem press, journals, TV, etc., dedicated to  the  subject. When notability  is first  asserted, then we can start  looking  at the reliabilty of the  sources that  confirm it. Who named it is not  a reliable source because there is no indication  where that  website got its info  from  and if it  is indeed true. It  might  well  be true, but  we need the proof.  Please read up  on  our policies at  WP:GNG, WP:BIO, WP:NOTABILITY, WP:RS, and WP:V. It's a lot of reading, but  that's the way  it  goes I'm  afraid. If you  need help  understanding  any  of it, don't  hesitate to  ask.--Kudpung (talk) 08:55, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Melanie Joy
Hello Kudpung. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Melanie Joy, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: The article makes a credible assertion of importance or significance, sufficient to pass A7. Thank you.  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  12:07, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi WSC. I'm  surprised, because as a part-time lecturer at  a university (non  tenured, non assistant-  nor associate prof),  author of two  minor, non award winning  books, and the only  WP:RS is the brief bio  page on  the uni she works for (her own self-published web  site doesn't  copunt), and after doing  some  of my  own  research, and the fact  that  it's been deleted twice before already, I  would have though  that  this is a clear fail. --Kudpung (talk) 12:26, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Kudpung, I doubt that this would survive AFD, though I've heard of the EllenDeGeneris show. But speedy is for more blatant cases than this. Lots of articles will be clear deletes at AFD but don't qualify for speedy deletion.  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  17:51, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Leandro Leviste
Hello Triwbe. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Leandro Leviste, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: the author has challenged it, and there is maybe just enough here to escape A7; I will take to AfD. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 12:19, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Matthew Wood (conductor)
Hi,

Thank you for your help and comments with the above article. There are more references to come, including international merits and awards - and hopefully a list of recordings. The page is certainly worthwhile, given the number of international positions held and invitations received.

More to follow!

NathanLawrence —Preceding unsigned comment added by NathanLawrence (talk • contribs) 14:27, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Help sourcing Thai footballers for WP:URBLPR
Hi Kudpung,

Greetings from Malvern. I wondered if there was any chance that you could help us out at WP:URBLPR sourcing a number of articles on Thai footballers that we have found in the latest month? I know you live in Thailand, and I assume you speak Thai, so I thought this might be a much easier job for you than it is for the rest of us. We think there are about 18 this month (Oct 2008) that will need to be done. Very many thanks Hallucegenia (talk) 15:37, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi Hallucegenia, There were indeed exactly 18 - I picked them out by simply recognising the Thai names, but apart  from that  the work, which took just over 5 hours, was  not  a net  benefit to  the encyclopedia in terms of ROI for the time spent. IMHO, the project really needs to consider focusing its priorities on the articles that have greater quantities of unsourced content, and where keeping them could clearly be an enrichment to the encyclopedia. I'm inclined to let those that are already PRODED just slip awy into oblivion and not spend time duplicating the effort of searching to save what in my opinion was the single greatest mistake Wikipedia ever made: according de facto notabiity to every Tom, Dick, and Harry who has kicked a leather ball along a 100 m field ;) Results below. Cheers, --Kudpung (talk) 22:17, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Kittipong Loon-jak OK PROD removed
 * 2) Rapeepan Pulsawat OK PROD removed
 * 3) Jiraniti Thalangjit OK PROD removed
 * 4) Nithichai Chamchoi OK PROD removed
 * 5) Narasak Kiengkrodklang OK (aka Sak King Nara) PROD removed
 * 6) Wissanusak Kaewreang not currently listed at Buriram FC no translate - ask creator of article & team article, or ask WP:FOOTY
 * 7) Nitipong Limsuwan not currently listed at Muangthong United F.C. no translate - ask creator of article & team article, or ask WP:FOOTY
 * 8) Narong Prom-on not currently listed at Samut Songkhram F.C. mentioned in various Thai footy blogs - ask creator of article & team article, or ask WP:FOOTY
 * 9) Niphon Phanporm no Thai translit. Not listed in given FC in en.Wiki
 * 10) Patipat Rorbru not currently listed at Samut Songkhram F.C. - ask creator of article & team article, or ask WP:FOOTY
 * 11) Prasert Choei-Taisong no Thai translit. not currently listed at Samut Songkhram F.C. - ask creator of article & team article, or ask WP:FOOTY
 * 12) Jarupong Sangpong no Thai translit. not currently listed at Buriram F.C. - ask creator of article & team article, or ask WP:FOOTY
 * 13) Sarawut Treephan see: http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/สโมสรฟุตบอลกรุงเทพคริสเตียน Bangkok Sports Club.
 * 14) Anusorn Srichaluang see:  th.wikipedia.org/wiki/อนุสรณ์_ศรีชาหลวง (Thai article unreferenced)
 * 15) Supakit Jinajai listed as captain at Buriram F.C. check http://www.buriramfc.com/_home.php but we have no Thai translit.
 * 16) [Jakkrit Thammasan] listed at F.C. Phuket but official website is down - ask creator of article & team article, or ask WP:FOOTY
 * 17) Thana Punprakon no Thai translit. not currently listed at Muangthong United F.C.  - ask creator of article & team article, or ask WP:FOOTY
 * 18) Jakapong Yaito no Thai translit. not currently listed at Buriram PEA F.C. - ask creator of article & team article, or ask WP:FOOTY
 * Thank you. That was indeed above and beyond the call of duty. Hallucegenia (talk) 08:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank You
And just to chime in, I'd like to add a "thank you" cluster to this barnstar. Your efforts were and are very appreciated! -- j &#9883; e deckertalk 17:31, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Re my edit on '*Mao's Great Famine: The History of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, 1958-62'
If you look at what I did, you will see that what I added was not 'a comment', but a template noting that the article appeared to contain a clear copyright violation. This was done entirely in accord with Wikipedia policy, as I understand it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:07, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Template:Infobox UK school
Hi. Thought you might be interested in this: Template_talk:Infobox_UK_school. Thanks! Mhiji (talk) 00:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Schools
Hi Storye book. Please bear with me if you  are already  aware of this. In early  September changes were made to  an infobox template that  affected the display of hundreds of school crests/logos in  the UK schools infobox. This is now being taken care of and you  may  find the discussions on  this page interesting: Template talk:Infobox UK school,  do  however leave a message here or here if you  come across any  that  are still  not displaying  correctly. If you are still  actively  interested in schools and and are not  already  a member, and would like to  help  out on  school pages and school  templates, you  may  wish  to  consider joining  the WP:WPSCHOOLS project where you  can also  stay  abreast  of developments by  adding  its talk  page to  your watchlist. Happy editing!--Kudpung (talk) 03:34, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi Kudpung. Thanks for remembering my interest. Yes I'm a retired teacher, among other things, but schools as such are not my primary interest. I am involved in researching certain school buildings and buildings on school sites, though. If Wiki needs me to help in that area, I'll do my best, but I don't think I'll be useful in an educational project group. Cheers and thanks again.--Storye book (talk) 11:09, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Re: Schools
Presumably you are referring to the changes I made to the template. Yup, I was aware of those :) Sorry, I have only a passing interest in schools, but I do quite a lot of template and bot work; feel free to leave specific actionable call-to-arms on my talk page and I'll be sure to give them a look. Otherwise, my interests are a bit too vague and my time just a tad too limited to be of much use, I'm afraid. - Jarry1250 [Who? Discuss.] 19:23, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Re: Schools
Presumably you are referring to the changes I made to the template. Yup, I was aware of those :) Sorry, I have only a passing interest in schools, but I do quite a lot of template and bot work; feel free to leave specific actionable call-to-arms on my talk page and I'll be sure to give them a look. Otherwise, my interests are a bit too vague and my time just a tad too limited to be of much use, I'm afraid. - Jarry1250 [Who? Discuss.] 19:26, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Michael Wainer (MIKE 13) - Major Label, Platinum music producer signed to LL Cool J and his Boomdizzle/CBS music.
With reference to Michael Wainer's (MIKE 13)'s possible deletion. MIKE 13 has produced 3 platinum singles, has composed/produced music for the #1 scripted show in the United States, NCIS as well as True Blood and NCIS:LA all while signed to and performing with entertainment icon LL Cool J. (as referenced by a televised performance at PetCo Pk (39, 000 ppl) in San Diego on major television network CBS. The link can be found between the article music mogul and possibly the most revered and respected man in modern music, Russell Simmons, ran on his personal website, globalgrind.com where he cites MIKE 13 as one of the most brilliant young producers in the business...Mr. Wainer is also featured on LL Cool J's personal website, boomdizzle.com as an "ALL Star" and is posted alongside the national television/in store and internet commercial campaign which MIKE 13 composed, produced and appeared in bearing both the LL Cool J trademarked logo and the SEARS trademarked logo.

Currently Mr. Wainer is composing the theme song for a newly developed CBS series and collaborating with fellow producer, Timbaland and recording artist Justin Timberlake on three new singles to be released in early 2011 in a collaborative effort btwn LL Cool J's label and Timerlake's Jive Records.

A simple email to Wainer's management Violator Mgmt, google search or comtact with Wainers Performing Licensing Society, BMI, will bear the burden of notability.

A 25 year old man, under the wing of LL Cool J with the support of Russell Simmons produces music which has sold over 3 million units worldwide, writes and produces for the # 1 show on television as well as many others and has written, produced and actually appeared in a national commercial marketing campaign side by side with retail giant SEARS and grammy award winning, emmy nominated LL Cool J....

We here at CBS records Public Relations feel that there are many less qualified who walk the halls of wiki...short of a grammy, there is virtually nothing MIKE 13 - Michael Wainer has yet to accomplish.

We appreciate your time and understanding and thank you for leaving the page intact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boomdizzle13 (talk • contribs) 06:13, 23 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi, please read my talk page header and follow the links. As regards an article someone wrote about Michael Wainer, I'm afraid I cannot comment here as other Wikipedia editors have opened an enquiry at Articles for deletion/Michael Wainer (MIKE 13) where a community  decision will be taken to decline or accept the article for inclusion in the encyclopedia. In the meantime, according to our rules, unsourced claims have been removed from the article; this does not mean however, that  the remaining items in the article have met  with  approval of Wikipedia. Thank you.Kudpung (talk) 06:36, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Roger Stevens
Hi - I've added another reference from The Poetry Society. As you can hopefully see his work includes over 200 items with broadcast on a UK national radio station. Does that help?Poetfellow (talk) 11:00, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi Poetfellow, we have absolutely nothing  against  the subject  of your article, and it's quite possible that  he's notable enough  for  an entry  in  the Wikipedia. However, the problem  is, that  it  must  be proven because verifiability, not  truth, is the motto, philosophy, and policy of Wikipedia. That  means we need referenrces to  articles in  the mainstream  press, or TV documentaries, dedicated to  him; just  a list  of links to  things he has done is not  enough. The page hasn't  been tagged for deletion  yet, but  you'll  have to  find some references soon. To find out if the references are the kind of thing  Wikipedia needs, do  please take the time to  read up  on  the polices, they  can explain  thing  better than I  can. Here are some links to  things you  need to  know: WP:RS, WP:V WP:BIO, WP:NOTABILITY, and of course, WP:COI. --Kudpung (talk) 11:16, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Kupung. Thankyou for those links, and I'm sure I can find some reliable references (although I would think the poetry society reference should be good - it's third party and a reliable source). I'm confused about you rlink to confilcts of interest - as you can see I've been listed poets in the past and (amazingly) remembered my account password when perusinf wikipedia this morning. I'm not related to any of these people and have nothing to do with poetry, so there's no conflict that I am aware of. Thanks again for the handy tips and support.Poetfellow (talk) 13:15, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

HAPPY HOLIDAYS


Schools list
Just in case you have not spotted the list you wanted. Keith D (talk) 00:17, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the support to merge the Acomb Primary School article into Acomb. However, i have to hold my hands up and say i had forgotten to amend my comment on the discussion page. After looking up the Local Council information, the old school is no longer in Acomb, but has moved to new buildings in nearby Holgate. So not only is the information in the wrong article, it is also no longer accurate information. I will amend the Acomb article in due course. Sorry.Rimmer1993 (talk) 22:39, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

No problems. Leave it to me - I know what to do, otherwise we have to go through an RfA process :)--Kudpung (talk) 23:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Wikibin
You tagged The Warrior Heir for deletion as a copyvio of http://www.wikibin.org/articles/the-heir-chronicles-2.html. While it was a copyvio, that website wasn't the one whose copyright was infringed upon: everything on Wikibin comes from deleted Wikipedia articles (in this case, The Heir Chronicles), which in this case was CC-by-sa licensed by dint of being created here on Wikipedia, so those whose copyright was infringed are the original authors of the Wikipedia article. Whenever you find something copied from Wikibin, you can tag the article for deletion with db-repost (with the title of the Wikibin page as the WP article that's been reposted), for that will likely make the deleting admin's job easier and quicker. As well, that way, the deleting admin won't be likely to say "Not a copyvio, just taken from a Wikipedia mirror". Thanks for your help! Nyttend (talk) 12:10, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Re: Worcestershire
One way to add multiple red dots to the map is to use location map+ amd location map~. For example, the wiki-markup below produces the map to the right (showing Bromsgrove, Malvern, Pershore, Redditch, Stourport-on-Severn and Worcester).

As for "correcting the ones already on it", I'm not sure what you mean: Do you mean incorrect red dots on a use somewhere, or something wrong on the background map itself? If the first, where is the problem? In that case, it may be the coordinates are incorrect?. If the second, what's wrong? I'd need to fix the SVG file in that instance.--Nilfanion (talk) 11:23, 29 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your extraordinarily quick and well detailed explanation. You'll be relieved to know that there's nothing wrong  with the svg map itself. I  just  wanted to  change Great Malvern to  Malvern, which  you  have already  done, and add some more of the largest towns, which  I  see you  have also  done except for Droitwich,  Stourport-on-Severn, Tenbury Wells, and Bewdley. Also, is it possible to  reduce the font size to avoid overlapping of the labels? Thanks for all  your help.Kudpung (talk) 11:39, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Good to know - on first bit. I just picked the district HQs for the map as I'm not sure what you'd need exactly, but I'm sure you get the idea to change to the ones you need.
 * To tweak with the labels, see the documentation at location map+. The most relevant ones are label_size can be used to alter the label text, marksize the size of the dots and position to put the label to top, bottom, left or right of the marker.
 * I've adapted the map above to show tweaked parameters for Redditch, making the label larger in this case. Note wiki-markup works as normal in the labels too (such as bold). Hopefully that gives all the info for you to produce what you need.--Nilfanion (talk) 11:53, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you very  much  indeed again - it's also  taught  me pra&ctically  all I  need to  know now about  thse kind  of maps. Cheers.Kudpung (talk) 11:55, 29 November 2010 (UTC)